JUDGES OR POLITICIANS ?

Dominion, Volume 4, Issue 935, 30 September 1910, Page 6

JUDGES OR POLITICIANS ?

in HUE'S CHARGES.

KEEN DEBATE IN PARLIAMENT.

PARTY FEELING RUNS HIGH.

was'. a very.;impiortant' discussion tei' the House of Eepresoitatives -yesterday : | : f- !Gdvernments? proposal liiat':-:,tiie ;■ Lands" ; - should'' ; be, .vjmpowered ito-iniluire';into,^all ;allegatioh's !; ' ?'of. tho receipt by any member .' or .past I* ■ .(member of improper commissions on the ;rJeale of privato ' estates to tho Crown, int ;-. ' [eluding tho charges made by Mr. Hine, . jSLP.' for Stratford, which (it will be're-. | icalled)' were as under:— /• ■ ... f • -(1) That a -member of Parliament ■ f ; wO:\'':ia^ed ,; ,asV:ageht:;'for; .the, vendor I and: ;; !:•..'received, a commission in .' connection _; f- , •;. with the purchase of an estate. '■ . ; . ; (2).Tliat;in connection with the pur- ;, i' ■ .. .ishaso .of. an.estate .two. members of Parliament-' acted-,, j.n;;collusiou', •■;• and ; ! rcceived'a commission'. . .■.. '. . : L;.- (3) ,That : a-. member of Parliament ,- i'. - . a:■' commission -';with a land • .. • agent,, in. connection, w-ith tho' pur- . chase^bf : :lancl jby ■; the: State; :• r '. ; (1) • That. a member of Parliament • =' V ieceived si. hugo. commission,: running ; ■ < ■ ■. into four; figures,-for acting, as agent ~ f . in connection with the purchaso of |-. .: ~ .-land,by tho State.:. . f, / PREMIER OPENS THE DEBATE. A PROPOSES A SELECT COMMITTEE I C'-. - - The Prime Minister said; thait when he - igavo hbtiee of the motion he; had', not f : • jJooked up the; procedure in ' connection !.1.-,OTth-cases; where wrongdoing .'was alleged against' members. . The records showed that-.there had..been twenty cases of the ! .•kind;; andvthey"had been referred;either to a', committee of the Houso or .a 'spocial -committee;.: He proposed; to ask leave in'. &- j- .this instance.to. amend his motion-so thatFi f/£; t&e matters might be reforred: to a spe- : [- - .■' cial committee.. (Hear; heats.), The c-om-Ig'vSi iijitteo:'.which-he w-ould propose -would E,.v-:s;'"jMnsist':-of i ,;Messrs'. ; -'J.V'M Pniser'.'-.Graham;-.Guthrie,- Haniin; Mas-, fy,i-.-.'.ti eey. -Myers, Hon. J. A. Millar, Eeod, E. ['• : IH. Taylor,'and himself.' • V.- •' • 'Speaker:'; The cortimittee'must-not , icorisist.of'more tHan'ten.members.' . " [ The; Premier:. I will.limit lt to ten. ■ fe«;.i!;Prbc«ding;'; Sir; Joseph f- V.V .proposed: tlie' motion because. Mr. Hine |. ■ La<l refused :to give ; ■ the;-.names of the■ t;- ; .. iriembars to whom he-was alluding.''.As h,. ■;: a result - no' -action ■ could ■■ be taken on ■a • [■;.:.. ■ ; imotion that gave .no names. It would jbe f.::• •■:'- [recalled 'that' he-Ijad; pressed -Mr.' Hine on I i, : ; 'iihe :pomt. ' ■ All along ,he ; had. been prc;':Si?'jpared: 'the v .matter-,'fuUy ;inquir^d nnto.' '• Only ; four/: cases . were '.mentioned C jby Mr. Hme, but lie (Sir Joseph) 1 de- ;?<■• charges^^'shdiUdibo'iin-: • i' •■' •.' -ve'stigated." . There' w;as' •a : suggestion'' in I'.'the' charges that •members. aiid ex-mem-lv.py;'^ers::ihad;received:;''nioneys.'3n;'connection" ■: jjith"StKe : < sale of estates ' to the '.Governr- ■ ■■'■ment."' The committeo could obtain, the |^Sjinn^t 7 :ihformatidnrana ; tKJ;s«vidence v would-be?: .bo' ' member I or p.; •'. '-past ■ member' had. been. guilty oft;;'any ' (corrupt practice, r. Because -Mr. shad liW^-'lPyS^'-idfnaine^Eeijhad^^ p : .'" .-.iiuendo. to exist 1 : that' raised' him to a f? >) /;'■ tidiS J'different' from:, that: teld', brother V: f;, icd by Mr; Allen that tho Prime' Minister ttM;:: 'amend-, his.-mdtion-.without:; the i.'; .nm'animous consent of tho House.'. .. .. ~.t- t byi Purchase - Board Officials;, 1 • .•The . Prime Minister, . proceeding,-', said :/;i^4v^ittatv:'Wc-let'fer/r = wliiclv'..:-lX'G' had-^ritteni.td" Messrs. "MTferrow • and- Barron; .tho eX.tehair'men of the.'Land ' Purchaso Board, ®vK^(andfeMr. : ';Eitchie;" the'..presentlchairman,' Contained, the. following; / w•.!'l r.(1) Will' youcinform.' me ''whether,; at JW.V- lany. - time during . your chairmanship of rc:,,;-vl;^hi6'il^hd> : p ;rwas/.attempted to be exercised .m- conf' tneohon with your .duties by any member i of the Government p p.-,.-;.<.-v (2) .'-Wonld you also say whether any member of Parliament;, past or present,- [•' v. attempted to exercise- any iniluenco, to [v.. -'.Snduce ,tho -board to arrive.' at any. de-j^6n:;-btherfthanWhat: theilMardi;,itself right ;in> : makiiaß;.ahy,v : ;reo6m-;. endation';. to :;thetf.Government jfurchase or of .'..the:'purchase;, of. '' iany 'estate ?'- ; '.'y?^ijy? w-\; te. i (3)' Whether any.;recommendation made tp'Vj Jto- the Government "with- regard to.the f/:V {purchase of an estato was not arrived at j-: by tho board? . V;i • •.'. \■>:■s»(i) ?J)id ' any' member, Vpresent,'. [. ' attempt .to iiiiluenco. tho board to increase fe";. itsiTrecpmme^ tho.-pufchaso of any. estate? '.-' :. ..' • ; - ' Proceeding,' :Sir...'JbMph,vsaid': : w I.'; ':;•. Jl'Kerr'ow had .replied as K^i-:;;^l)i?None^':^:i !:«',o; ; :;jbf,-:]?arliament' : J.':i^;-cmrmM':;6fi'other;-memfe..of':the': l boaxd' 1. ••' " to. suitable land in his ' electorate for closer^/settlement,'-but?;the -members . of ;^,;;the ! ;board::had.;relied on their own' inlv .. ',«pection and.'the 'report - of competent | .valuers in.making their recommenaatioji.t . .(3) -Xo. There was a difference -of !•,'. -opinion .occasionally, but ' after a. disr- , cussion unanimity invariably was arrived at as to 'the "recommendation. ! '.Never^y':M': ; [■-.v;: ;■ - The .reply t submitted by Mr.. Barron, iS;. j' I''' ;:' of ; the ! Government 'or. [' v r;;-.Parliament.attempted' to exercise' influence p iin sl ;conneetion' ' n-ith - a decision of. the. I /': .'board. Vi-f~ - |V: ; "'- ;;.(2)Qlhe "decision; : ofi the:;' board •. was;- al; i ' .'. JTrays considered, confidential. V '- (3) No' recommendation in regard' to. E-'-.':,'v-lfie.- purchase; of. an-'.estato not [-'■ amved at unanimously was-accepted-by [ ' tho. Government. • -

il l^'' bis' reply' Mr.-'Eifchie.Xtliie:: present | , 'chairman) had said• ..-' .•'•'• ( brought, j to bear on- me bytany." member of tho r . ' Goyernment:iii coimecttori : with my 'duty., ■ ' '. (2). In. no caso has any member; of fe'iiParliament attempted .to ':influence -. the' ! - -'board in conn'c'ction with any decision. f-V'!:■> (3) All. recommendations made by the t : . board : 'have been unanimous. . i v How Estates are. Acquired. • j" : .- Continuing, Sir.: Joseph' Ward said that ' /.- ' since the .passing' of tbe Lands;for • Settler ! .jrient Act a cardinal ' feature had been i'.;'...; to have a board between tho- : Governi'."-'- ment of the 'country . - and those . offering fland and-to, make, the board accept full i . .iesp6hsibilify v as-;far .as 'price; was . con- <• cerned in making recommendations for : 'the'purchase -of - estates:' 1 No . member- ofthe Government had ever sat as a mem- !; - -ber . ofthat-board.' and the ■ board had never had a member . of .the Government present at its: meetings. .*• Tho board's : re'.commendations. in; respect/to price, could not be 'increased. Tlie position , was a: clearly-defined one and • the board had i-worked without a. blemish/since its ' in-, ceplion. No member of Parliament could therefore bring any pressure to bear'.on: ' ' the Government in connection' with tho i: : ' purchase, of • estates: and the only body t. on which pressure could bo brought to -bear was the board itself. He. might,also! ' mention that the board (not as a matter |v'~ of law) but as a matter of procedure) i. - required to bo unanimous .in its recomf. 'mendations. The same imniriiity was ■■ "■ ' required on the /part of the Ministry L : :> : . which had ' never ■ accepted lan estate where f- • : there . was , dissent from - any', member .of the.Ministry.: The.experience had "invar- • . jiablv been that the owners .of 'estates j tasked;for a .great; deal' more than/ the estates' -were, deemed - to; be, !/'v..-. :by ithe; valuations. In nine cases • out jkv;--'. ;lof ten a. considerable reduction had been

W.. . 9 . . GOVERNMENT CHOOSE PARTISAN TRIBUNAL

"insistedy.upon "and; invariably an . independent ' valuation had . been; made by the ■Land Purchase Board.'; The result of this system; had been :;.that speaking generally he did not believe'that a' serious mistake . had - been- made,- in connection' with any one/property;.. It might.-bo that even 1 with 'the >rigilance that had been exercised 1 and the independent inspection ■ and valuation that had been. made' there might be cases .where the.-values .were .regarded by some as• f'still f.beiapr-too; -high;, but looking tit' the position impartially it was wonderful ■how, we had {acquired five millions' 1 worth" of estates! 'from; end to ; i end ! of New Zea|land:: and steeredclear of any''serious im_i?take,'r,;The.,statements.i l that,-.;had. i been made -Had' 'placed:'every : mem of -the. ; House -lunder,; suspicion:'.': Ho (tho Prime Minister) had never- known . what . . arrangements existed ..between, the owners , of any land and (those.'.who-were acting as agents for them; .'- .... ./ : :■■.'Proposed Committee Outlined; ' The';. House had a. right: to,.' know the cir-cumstances-'of '.th©:' allegations made > and 1 also I :in'.-'any; other:.--cases,";where.; members; of Parliament' have been" alleged to havo received . a. consideration from' a persoii whoAha'disold; an estate; if only to allow, legislationto-. bo .passed - to prevent; the - being -futnrerrJt 'was not' right.'that those '.'who ;held responsible "official;. positions should be- exposed to aspersions either';.privately - or. otherwise."- He went onf,"to, say .that .- He ..had \noticed with considerable indignationj the .coriments; by dfcleast' two: .Opposition, papers in regard to his original motion;". ■ : The.: imputation . was: that the. members of 'the Lands,-Com-mitteo were not honest men. Ho was sure;;;that that:;committee'• would -.have i done its; duty, faithfully, .and it had to-bo, remcmbefcd; that Everything.. would go onrecord.' He thpugktV,that tho committeo on this occasion would be able to get at the bottom of the matter, even although Mr. Hine declined to appear, before c.thV committee;'..; As' far- as /he;, was. concerried'.-he,.would;do, his -best --to sea that; that ; result was: obtained.;;;- As."the'.; proposed " committee - had;, to. .be' reduced; ; to^lO' 'he.-would;'suggest- that it should; 'consist: -;- of 0.-Messra/ ,;: Allen,. Buchanan, ' ■ Eraser, .• Guthrie, ■ Hanan, Hassey, My ors, •Millar, Heed,, and himself. It would bo see'n-.tliat'.the proposed; committee; includ-' ed the Leader, of the Opposition . and other-'strong •; members''of; thej: Opposition' 1 Jparty.', If."the House-would not? agree .;to'. aUo'w.:him; to' amend: his motion he would get one of- his colleagues to, movo by. ,'way:.'or amendment that,'the 'be info ; tho','special ' committed which lie had outlined. :- '• ■: ,: >^' ; Mr;,AHen-'again' objected' to the: 'til-., .teration; of .tho ■ motion, ohvthe 'prpTindthat. I notice /.should : ?have 'been given \ the ' motion was not allowed to bo amended.i i SPEECH BY MR. HINE. AN AMENDMENT MOVED. , Mr. Hine:' (Stratford) .'said that ho; was surprised;,- to'...hear ithe; ■say}'; be'':taken be-' -cause, he?had' not:, given .'any .-.'names; ''B.ut' ;iiimj^ia^ : a motion to ; th6' effect'-that action should :be/.;takon.? .■For.';the.Vlife.,o'f.i him he.'Could '.not-: say;.; wthyi jactionv-was v not. ■ taken.; six ..weeks c ago;''.'; If' that ; had done ;it haW: ; Caused Va'great of;-satis-faction;"' It would .have, been better, than to have said that. ; lie,. Mr. Hine, had plaoed; himself on a higher pedestal over. ■■^the^-rnatter/.:'.i'.-VC-'i" •;!■.;■ v., Sir' Joseph: I didn't say that. •.Proceeding,';' Mr. Hine:V said. Vthat the;' whole': matter, could; havebeencleared.up by "that :time'. .Ho must ' object: to ' tho proposed tribunal.:;;:' The';' Prime: Ministej. said;; that',:"an v amputation;,had ;been",'cast /over, members of -this; and l , previous P.ar- : liamente. It seemied. peculiar that. a body;. of-:men' whom v ;the. Prime. Minister. - saiid-were' under,'a.l 6tigmaV,should jbe the' : judges.v. 1 :: He; thought.,. that:. the', • House. ; would . readily reedgnis® ; that" the ' members of :.the..House' should '.not be ■ the - judges, be by. an. independent.'tribunal,:;.and:.with the pro-' cecdings open.to the press. If that course ..were-,\a'dopted,'.;, members ;.'^rduld' : have, .the satisfaction': of'- kjid.wing -Tvher6 - he stood,and who were tho. guilty ones. As regards.the Land. Purchase Board, he would: 'remind.members, that lio had not levelled any charges against' the officials. :■, Then, 'again; he would remind the.House that .the'^Minister"for Lands'- for;the, day:had ■td' consent' to' the ' purchaso . of. an ;esta_te.; Tt was.therefore; wrong, to;place the, Min-, ister' for f Lands - on: -the; committee.

Sir; Joseph: It is the consent of : Cabinet; that has .to be obtained.^. . .

Request f.or a Royal Commission. - 3lr. Hine' (continuing) said that: perhaps' the Minister for Lands'; might have to '■ consult'.'Cabinet.-;;,That, .was;a. further : argumbnt-agairist 'any member of' CaWset being' 'placed..on.-.the committee.' - Dealing, with the comment that , had appeared in the ; press,"Mr. Hinb ; said it .was generally recognised that .a * committeo of- the House- was. bound ;to;;te!_biased.: .:.Where party obtained ■•:' that, was bound to bo the' this':bccasion party.', feel-': log was" present. Tho Prime - Minister wanted- six of -his owni,members ' : agaihst four : members of -the 'Opposition -.on;-the committee;' ,Thatwould .not be. a;fair tribunal. ". It was 'not".necessary for - him to on his charges: until' a satisfactory tribunal; was, Set up. He wished to 'move':as : an amendment; that the charges be inquired into' by two' judges of the/. Supreme Court.. A commission' so constituted'iwould. givs satisfaction throughout the, country. It would allay.:all: feeling both inside and outside the House. It .was certainly the only tribunal to whom the honour of members could bo entrusted.' ;• , Mrl. .Hardy . . -(Selwyn) . seconded ' the -amendment. ■" -.. ■ . ' ; - - The' Hon.;J. A. Millar moved/as a fur-', ther; amendment that the inquiry should be ;in-the hands, of-the special • committee of which the Premier had-given' notice.. :Mr:■ Speaker" said that .an, opportunity would' be given '.for a' division .on both tho amendments. '•

OTHER SPEAKERS. A question of fairnessl " Mr. Malcolm (Clutha): raised two points of order whether the Hon. J. A./Millar's amendment was-material, also whether, priority of., place "gave. precedence in the case of an amendment. .'■ /:" ' . Mr.'Spcaker ruled- that' the-amendment w'is material/ and that it had'precedence. ' ."Mr.'Rsher "(Wellington Central) then, moved a prior amendment, under Vfliich, however,' only' the charges outlined could ibe.:investigated, : but it' would bo ,by two Judges 'of tlie Supreme-.Court. ■ ; Mr. /Dive .'(Egmont)'' ,seconded* this amendment.' '.' : '. ' The Prime Minister eaid he would oppose 1 this 1 amendment, as: it would - limit the inquiry to the four charges. , - ' Mr.' Fisher:' But''.it"' , Tnir'.ensuie;-.'.that. the charges are inquired into by an independent commission. . ' - Mr.- Malcolm (Clutha) 6aid that the proposed special committee, was unfair ,in that it consisted i of; six Government and only-four Opposition members.- . Government members: ,Oh, no. .. ' Mr. /Malcolm: The six Government members' lire Messrs. 1 Graham, Harian, ■Millar, Reed, Ward, and -Myers. ;. Government : members: 'Mr.. • Myers r Mr. Malcolm:' Then how is it that his name appears on the .-.attendance 'register printed by. the Government party ? Hon. T. '-'Mackenzie: I have never seen the register. : Mr.. Malcolm: But you have ..never been a Whip of either party. . A: member: Ho is an Independent.

Mr. Malcolm: The register shows that the only. Independents ore Messrs. •M'Laren, T. E. Taylor,- and Luke. (Laughter.) - In conclusion, Mr. Malcolm pointed out that it might so happen that some of the members placed on & committee might bo concerned in the chargos. Ho was quito : sure that the country would not ho satisfied with tho finding of, a committee of : tho House. • Mr. Myers's Political Position. i; Mr. Myers (Auckland East) , said he was ■rather surprised to hear Mr. Malcolin stating that he was a member of the party... : Mr.. Malcolm: I silid that tho Government consider you so. ' •Mr. Myers: I am not responsible for iwhat you have quoted. I would not be responsible even if the member ■ for Clutha had' joined me as a member of the Opposition. (Laughter,). Continuing,' Mr. Myers said ho had jbcen elected as an Independent member. 'No Minister had approached him on any ,political matter either ' before or after 'his election. He was a strong supporter •of the principles of the-Liberal party, and ;hi» vote would always be recorded in that ■direction, but . he-stood-unpledged in any shape or. form. He claimed to bo considered an. Independent "member, i Mr.■• Malcolm said he did not blame ■Mr. Myers for .intending to be a Govern-. ,ment . supporter. .he . was claiming iwas. that, the-Government considered him ■a Government supporter. : ; ' Mr.'ilyers replied he -had never been at a Government; caucus, and had never ibeen asked to attend. There was no justification jor Mr. Malcolm's, remarks. •.. • Mr. (Opposition Whip), holding' jthe. attendance book in; his hand, said he .presumed the- Goverriment knew .very- well ;what.'they; were about'.when they comipiled' that list. . ; -Sir Joseph ■ Ward.: . The Government ;never compiled that.'list. ,1 havo never .'seen.iit.': :;it ,is made by officers of the House. ' Mir. Speaker' (with emphasis):,!;am informed. that '.it was not .'compiled'; by officers of tho llouso. (Laughter.)' Mr. Hogg .(Masfcerton) strangle advocated an impartial (tribunal l such , as had , been proposed by Mr. Hine. . If there was, anything in tho charges, the whole: of . the facts should bo thoroughly gone, into by a tribunal not. of members of the Jlouso, but by a', tribunal in which the members of the House and the people of the. country conld- place implicit , "confident ■ .These were charges of an extreme character, 1 and. it was the first time since 'he had.- been a member of the ■House. that such.- charges ;had s been made. In order to clear the hands of members, it s was desirable , to get :a .tribunal of men.' whose integrity, and honour and. impartiality couid not: possibly. be challenged. "■

; "An .Impertinence." . Mr. Laurenson, (Lyttelton) quoted ■; Par-■Liamen-ta'ry.' authorities, Ywhich,- he . held,'] went to : 'show that the' House and' only, •the ,House .should .deal: with 'such charges ,as had been: made. Mr. Hine- liad iallced •of: hias..' Could .he get'-a judge "without: 'bias?■ v.-v-' : ■ Hon members: Yes. . , , . ' Mr v Laurenkm. said, 1 Supposing •• he 1 , had committed a crime, and', had to bo. tried by Sir Robert Stout or Mr. Massey,. would :ho not get as fair treatment from.' Mr. Massey. as from the judge? (Laughter.) ;It'. was a very little.'-'thing, to laugh at;: ■but-it- .was'- no joking matter. Mr. Hine had. practically state3 : that-members, of, the House had been guilty of stealing the public, funds.of this .country.. '• (Hon. mem-; bers: 'No.) . If- that were so,- there, was. oiily : one-,way.> to deal , with> such 1 members.' They should bo planted in. ga01..,; As to the judges; he asked '--were ■ there-, not -judges,, prejudiced in' regard to fcemper-:-ance reform, wero there- not judges ; .pfe-' judiced .in"favour if liquor, i-i .favour .of: tho .Conservative. party and in favour ,of. the ; liberal; party? Yet; they, ;could to. the honour of such' men, and they couldfalso; trust - -bo the/honour '-ofmembers ; of:-.; Parliament. / If, a'mcjnber of .'a' ; football team offended, would; he. not bo tried before jthe football association?.' If a man' were chained for a i military offence, would ho not be tried' by a military: court? . -It.was an absolute impertinence to suggest :that ; this',matter'.;6hould be referred to. the judges. It croiis; ' 'it"., -was .an impertinence. (Laiigli- ; ter.)-^The^^o^rvative-members :ahd : the •Gonirervatiye pi-ess' Hiere ; making a deliberate and:malicious attempt to,degrade and humiliate. PwJiam.ent.'vThero.. was' a rumour in;the street that, some members nected with' 5 Mr.. Hirie's: own party were • mired' rip ill. this business, and 'it : was to, shield .them' that this attempt was i being, madei; (Opposition .laughter.) ( They want-J ed: to-Tefer. the matter to. tho judges, and •then it would bo .blocked. '-. i -" , ■ Bribery Not Alleged. Mr. Herries: (Ta'uranga); said that every time Mr. Laurenson got.' up he degraded Parliament. ' .. ' i : : r ;:.i The expression was objected'to, but tho Speaker held it was in order. '.: ': . Continuing, - Mr. Heme's asked what had happenedVin connection with' the petition .in reference - to.-:'Sir'.''■K Walpole's; tion: • Party feeling ran so high that even . Committees of • tho House had been unable' to arrive at.a just'decision, and-dtilast the .cafe .went before the judges .of.'th'e/Supreme Court:' The cases Mr. Laurenson had cited were not on the same plane.,'; Tho Opposition wanted.the' : cases'ihquiredi.into in an impartial manner. The charges involved commissions, not'bribery. ; ;;r'v:':- v ■ Sir Joseph Ward: ' The inference 'is there, -v-"'.':- 1 ";; v- : . .".r '■ -[■/■_ "The ;hon. 'gentleman ,' who - represents Lyttelton would hang ~na: . first' and try us afterwards/,';,.- concluded Mr. Herries. "\yhat-; chance would. Mr. Hine have -against'a 'Committee composed of men, of the calibre "of the member for Lyttelton ?" (Laughter.) - '

.■ The Hon. . j.'; Ai- Millar, said this case was quifedissimilar, to;an.election:committee.'/ ■ If ; ; Mr .: Hine .had' named" . the person ■he charged, that: person - -would have : heen'':bToughi before ■ ;the House. The' Government was determined to,have the' matter threshed out because, there was an innuendo that .money' had been, received • for the' sale of a land to the Government, 'The : allegation was that some •'persons ; used ' their position to "get a higher price for:-tlie land. '.Rumour had connected the names! of [still further per-; sons^with..the charges. v.-He' was ( not going to say whether ;! these persons were; members -lor .'ex-member's. ofParliament.-'' ■ • Mr. Fisher : Show us, an example by. giving. tho 'names. - -, Mr. .Millar: I . will give the names if Mr. . Hjhe .will .give -the names pf .the' persons lie charges. Mr. Millar.argued that the setting,up of' a ' SelectCommittee-., was following the usual ' .procedure here; ;: and in the'.Old. Country, and .he .was surprised it should be opposed. Personally, he could; go to the'. Committee .quite; .'-unbiased, and' ■ no' imatter who - the person', was, if he were proved to have done wrong he would say so:. .He believed the Leader of-, the Opposition' would not' put his'name . to . a report untes' he -believed ,it to be perfectly; correct..- \

Premier Says Evidonco Would bo ' / Published; MEiJ.'. Vigor. Brown. (Napier) said tie question' to bo- decided ! was. one .of', fact, arid .even in the ordinary law-courts laymen'were called up •; to jiidp* facts. - W|.,J~ Allen (Bruce): pointed out' that wlMii a man was brought before a jury he had the right to challenge those whom it was proposed should try him. It was not suggested so far as- lie knew that Government moneys .' were. :. involved. There was no guarantee that'the evidence taken "'by the' committee would bo made public." What about the Bii(i Tuck .case? Sir Josep)i J Ward:" Parliament/decided to expunge tho whole report. ' Mr. Allen: Yes, on party lines, and that is what would happen in this. case. Sir Joseph .Ward said - he would , see that the evidence in this.case was printed. Mr. Allen: We judge by past, experience; not on your word. This, he pointed out, was a matter for the House to decide, on. The Opposition wanted an honest,, fair, vote on the question qf whether, two impartial judges • of the Supreme Court were'.going to hear' the charges, or whether it was to bo the committee. Ho sincerely .hoped for tie honour of the country and tho honour of Parliament, that the charges would not be sustained. If tho committee of the House jrere set up, it would be said outside the House that party had been used to hush up the matter. Tho committee was ;a party on?, as was shown by the balancing of. parties on it. Mr. Myers, if not..a member of the Government.party, at least supported the Government. -Further, if. it camo. to a tie, the'Chairmau would have a castiug vote. Reflection on the Judges. Mr.' Russell (Avon) argued that ' no precedent had been auoted in suEport of

the contention that two judges should hold tho inquiry. 'It was .his opinion that Mr. Hine would have placed himself in a much stronger position if he had as soon as ho had made tho charges given tho names of the persons concerned .in confidence to the Prime Minister. Sir ■ Josepli: I askbd him. to give them. 1 roceeding, Mr. llussell said that although the Opposition members were in a minority on the proposed oommittee he was not prepared to. say that, they were in a. minority intellectually. Mr. Wright: It is votes that count. ; Mr. Russell (continuing) said that judges were only human. In connection with land matters there were judges who had used expressions of a partisan nature. He knew one judge who hated the Liberal party,'. and everything connected with it as the devil hated holy water. ' . ' Mr. Speaker, prevented further comments on this point, on the grpnnd that they : were a reflection on the judges. Mr.. T. E. Taylor (Christchurch North) said he : doubted. whether religious , bias was more vehement than political bias. He thought that the discussion that day. shoived-. that the inquiry, should not bo conducted by members.of 'the House. Another _ jxiiat which 'influenced him in that, opinion was ■ that . members were being called upon to perform twice ' as much work as should be the case. The impression ih, the country was that Mr. .HineV remarks were calculated, to show the; risk .that the lands 'for .settlement policy created, and that, .the 'system of. . land purchase :. afforded, opportunities. for ', improper : conduct on the part of members. He added he did;not;see why they should be the victims of Parliamentary conventions. Let the matter go to the judgesj and let Parliament attend to its work. By this method they .would; free themselvesof the slightest suspicion of bias.: Another point was . that the -.personnel of the committee was not altogether what it should be..;.

Proposed Committee Criticised, ; The names of old members ■'• of Parliament were missing, and .their - .places taken by' new ■ members who had come into Parliament : for the' first ; time, and ■who knew very little about the procedure: of -Parliament. : - or ' of' Parliamentary. 'Committees. v.;-,./.,.. ::.v ; u Mr. Hanan (Invercargill) suggested that if .Mr. Hine, considered anyone proposed to, bft put on the committee biased ho should name him'/ '" ' ; V Mr. Wright: (Wellington / South);■ said that all members were affected to some, extent by party, prejudice.. - Supposing Mr.. Hine were,wrong, , there would be no ;harm getting judges 'of . the Supreme Court to' .consider / . the-. icatter., '.Those 'newspapers which had 'criticised. the proposal to/send ' the. ■mattef '. to tho Lands ,Committee had hot:-imputed ■ that', fie members. of the. Committee would be dishonest. 1 What they had urged 1 >as that an independent tribunal should' be' set up.' ■ Mr.,Hogan (Wangahui), said the 6Ug-, gestjon, -from Jwhat he: could.- gather,-: was that commission had been 'accepted by OTrtain-. «ix-members ; from : private people iri 'regardi.to the: sale 'of estates to tho Government. It' was,, he -thought, a debatable point whether a member who was a land agent could, receive commission from a private owner as agent in tho sale of an estate' to the Crown. Ho ! thought,.that .a-. oommittee /of the Housecould bo trusted to report faithfully and :well '.oh -the-.charges; 'It/:was .his/view: that tho charges had-been, brought for-: ward for party reasons. • • . ; : "For ..heaven's sake let us'take a "vote," remarked Mr. Dillon, M.P. for Hawke's Bay. Ho added that '.there had been'too • much talk on the "question-already. Every: :member . knew how he, intendedto vote. "That," -he added, ."is:"the" whole of 'my 'argument." i

.;-•- Mr.' Newman (Manawatu) argued that 99 meii out-of, every 100-, would hold that : J Mr. ; Hine's /'request for a ; Royal'. Commis-', sion'was reasonable. -They.had been told' by. Mr. Hine /that if •' he 'failedto' prove /his /charges /-he would, pay costs : of • .the : investigation. It was: in the'. interest bf.' ;the Government that, the, charges: should" be cleared up. . ; •-' •/-;, ;/ Hon. T. Mackenzie: Why? , ;,: Mri;/Newman :/'Because one /of : the' geni'. tlemen:;implicated was • , ! a'.. Government' candidate. ', . ~ f-fNoj.y.se Trying to Draw Mo." '. /. Sir: Joseph 1 ': '.That is 'not so. ,! . , ; Mr.' Newman: Mr; Hine said so in -tho ;House. r'-.u-i Sir Joseph': No ho didn't; ' ,'' . '/r .' Mr. Newman: That is ; what-1' under-" /'stood. ;' What is -the position?. ■ Sir Joseph :'lt/is ho use trying to draw me, forVI. am ; prepared :for anything.' -, Mr. Newman: -Well; I will /withdraw my remark. -,- ■ Mr. Stallworthy (Kaipara) contended, that. the /proposed-, committee had been fairly selected. ,' . „ Mr. Luke. : (Wellington Suburbs) said that ne.would;be satisfied.if ! tlie charges were inquired-. into-, by ,'a select committee. It. was his opinion that Mr., T./ E.' Taylor should .be;-put on the committee in lieu of ■ Mr. Myers on the score that the former had greater : political'' esperience—in fact,-, might,be termed an expert,in these matters. ; ■ Mr. Fraser ; (Waiaiipu) explained . that Mr. Massey was unable to take part i in the.; debate as he' was suffering from a severe cold;; He went on to say. that the public' would .declare, in view of , the Goi verhment 'majority-:-, on; the. projjosed committee, thai. the. result might be 1 : foretold. It / was .ridiculous' for' some ; members to' say, ; that:party:feeling wais. not shown; at committee, meetings;;' ■ : , .: .Mr. Lawry: It is not true. ' Mr. Speaker insistedthat; this .remarlc'must. be''withdraiyn.:/- -, > . v ; The, Hon. T. Maokehzie , said' it would appear that Mr. 'Hine had a weak case; First ! of, an, .: Mr;; Hine wanted, a Royal Commission;.now he.wanted -to-have the charges .investigated by two ' judges of the' Supremo. Court./ Had .Mr. Hino not shifted his ground? • ' Mr. Nosworthy: Have you never shifted your ground? (Much'laughter.) : , Proceeding, Mr. Mackenzie said' that- ifthe charges, weie to, be [ substantiated i,t would have -to be shown that the Land Purchase Board "had been influenced. ■: - Membersr. No;. one suggested such a thing.-' 1;

Honour of Government Not at Stako. ; Mr.Mackemsie. (cbntinuiig). said • that if all the charges were proved the honour of - the .Government would not be '-sullied.' Such a. comnuttce as had been suggested would, sift the whole matter: to tho bottom. There .was no pain in the' duty ; it would ,bo ,a joy and a pleasure. -In - regaid / to the- purchase ' of estates, >•" the greatest conservatism was.: shown to prevent 'undue prices- being- paid.; None of the officials on the Laud Purchase Board would stoop to anything of the kin<l that had been suggested.- He'was surprised to hear Mr. Allen say that party feeling had affected him at meetings,of committees. Mr. l Allen:; And you- have -been - carried away too. ;; . ■ ; ■ ".!-. ■ Mr. Mackenzie: When" my side , fa in the- right. ... Resuming, Mr. Mackenzie; said that the non-party attitude .Mr; Allen had taken; up on tho question did him -great credit.

Why. Were; the Government Afraid? Mr. Herdman (Wellington North). said the speech of the' Hon. Mr. Mackenzie had not touched the point at issue.- Why, ,he asked, were the Government afraid 'to refer the. matter to , the judges of- the Supreme Court? Ho regretted, that two members of the House had reflected on the judges of the Supreme Court. One member'had said that if he were to-be tried for a crime:he worald just as soon be tried by Mr. Massey as by Sir Robert Stout. Did any hon. member beJieve that? : Government members: Yes. Another Government member : That's a compliment to Mr. Massey. Mr. Herdman: Hon.'members know perfectly well he would have no hope. That is absolutely: certain./ (Laughter.) He would .'be convicted upon sight. (Laughter.) " i ' Mr: Herdman proceeded to argue that they would bo much mora likely to get an impartial,-finding fi;om the judges than from a Parliamentary Committee. In the famous voucher case Sir. Lauren-son-was one of those who'.'strongly advocated that it should be heard by judges of tile Supreme Court. Mr. Hine, in this case, would have been mad—stark, staring mad—if he had given tho names. The nrgument that the names wore not mentioned; was quite irrelevant to the case. ■ Mr, Laurenson, by ,way of personal explanation, said he had not reflected upon the judges of the Supreme Court. He read from his "Hansard" proof, as already roported. In regard to the voucher incident, he would later on controvert . Mr, Herdmoa's statement,

Mr. Herdman said even what Mr. Laurenson had read from his "Hansard" proof showed that lie had reflected upon the judges. •

Government supporters: No. Sir Joseph Ward said he was surprised to find it urged that a commission should be set up without first giving names.lf that practice were established there might be'all sorts of vague charges made during any session. There was no parallel, in . any Parliament .to .the setting, up of a commission without names being given. His own belief was that Mr. Hine wished to convey the impression that these oharges might bo attached to somebody else—that members', of the House, past and present, had accepted moneys in connection with, the sale of lands that they should not have received... ~ ' .

If Mr. Hine Declines to Give Evidence; . The Go.vern ment, however, would get, Wose names before the committee whether Mr. Hine liked' it or not, 'because' some of his, own friends had stated to others the names. Should Mr. Hine not go. to the, committee, he (Sir Joseph \Vard): would get some of his friends. to state, the names, and then he! would un-dertake-to call the people named. We are not, added Sir ' Joseph Ward, going to .be stopped ,in that., way. . No one ; could point to any case in which the Government, had ever asked anyone to do a dishonest thing- in connection Tnth the purchase of estates or any other /matter. Nine-tenths of the estates' had been bought from their political opponents; and the innuendoes were uncalled for and unjustifiable* Whatever occurred in Committee he wquld undertake tosee that ib was reported to the House and printed. The recommendations iin regard to" pur- , 1 chase of estates always. went to Cabinet, and '. the Minister': for . lands did, not de-, cide the matter. In regard to the proposed committee, he .'.believed it was a good one, and he. had not. spoken to any. member of it on the, subject.

. Mr.. Laurenson (Lyttelton) said' ; he;had no recollection of having urged that the voucher inquiry should. be made • by. judges; of the Supreme' Court. Mr. Herd-' '.man had told ,him in. the.-lobby' that-he. had'-.advocated this, at a . public, meeting. He had no recollection of having , done so. , Mr./Herdman said -he had ; men.tiohed the matter - oil the authority of - Mr. :Fisher,- /who, said that, Mr. Laurenson hid,.-advocated outside the "House the: hearing of; those , charges'by Supreme Court judges. '-, •'••Mr. laurenson said Mr.' Herdiriai should withdraw tho statement.

. Sir.' Herdman said . that; he was not called, upon: to do so. ( '""'r";/:/'\; ■ \ ' Mr. Fisher (Wellington Central) said that in 1905 Mr. Laurenson .whs a member.of the. New Liberal/jmrty when .that party.' was -demanding a judicial,.. inquiry, into the voucher charges. ■ "/';'• , ..'Mr: : ; lanrehsoh: : . .1,. challenge him /rito produce anything to show .that I ever .said• anything to. that effect in or out of. Parliament. .-V -: '•• / '••iMr., T: E.-Taylor said , his, recollection . was. that;' in 1905 -Mr.', Laurenson, .during ! the' meetings: of the New.'Liberal : party, 'made veiy slight reference: ques-. tion\-except. in ■ connection'. with' .certain, .travelling allowances, and that he had held: aloof . ..upon the matter of the pay-, ;ment : alleged-to. l have; been made ,'to Captain Seddon. ■, * •. ■ • - : AN OFFER BY MR. HINE. NOT'-ACCEPTED BY THE PREMIER. Mr.' Hine '(Stratford), 'said ./that .-thereJ was. an implication ;lodged ;atHhe .'door 'of; the Government. In' any inquiry . the Land ; Purchase Board • and' the' Minister , for Lands should be called/ upon' to show; why estates had been , purchased' 1 after •they-had once been refused. They should also' state, why,"estates had .been purchased in a partially .improved .Condition—id; ; the process of., close '■•.settlement; by.the. owner/ /More than;.that ;they should state, .why concessions: had been givenO.tenants after, estates had been/ purchased.. These, were matters.which bore. on the.administration :of the Government.Then ; againthere was'the'fact- that, in addition to/the, 'circuiiistancei'.that': members had : received' commissions', too dear , a price ,had been i piid. When certain-; •■ estates. , had been purchased, demands ' had ■ - immediately been made for .the reduction'of : rent, etc.' s The Prime Minister had been •very emphatic in declaring that the board had'.-the' ultimate say-in -regard ;toi the- ; purchase'..price. / ../Section-.10; of the.Act' said: in any case where land was to bo • takeriithe-.Ministerrshould- offer suoh : 6um' as he thought fit,' etc. . Sir Joseph I :,: That is deliberately -misleading. • ' ' • :■ J '■•!• Continuing, 'Mr.,'./Hine.. said, he wished to say that all..the''telk-:.as'-'to;wlietHer; the ' persons /were concerned were' members "of; ' Parliament- now ,was';beside the 'question, lie had said ; before that''they included ! both past ,an'd- present/members. "I am sto'; name the men," /added ' Mr. > 'J(line;..•."if.;.'tbe^.TJfe'mi.Bi^' : •assurance:'here,:now/-that. he6et up, a of - two, judges', of-..the' Su : '; preme Court." . (Hear, hear.) ;>The " Premier, said ; that "'Mr. Hine was ' either supremely' ignorant 1 or. deliberately, misleading; ..for. the clause, /whioh; he: had' ■ quoted referred .to ; the' . compulsory; ' acquisition of estates.;/ If Mr. Hine was -so /hard' driven 'to implicate ;the.'Govern-, ment,' his case , must be a distressing , one.. :. Mr. Jas.. Allen' (Bruce), pointed l out that laths'. Premer had not., been r fair ..to,- Mr. i .'Hine,' for - the. clause'in\questidn' came,iin- ; der' the heading;. "Acquisition .of,, Estates." '■ .A": , ; '.yh- ■; •'"' A DIVISION. .MR; FISHER'S AMENDHENtf -LOST! ; .The amendment moved by ;Mr. .Fisher ] that.' the/charges.;be. ; referred .to'.a'.com : mission, of inquiry; consisting.; of 1 two judges -of ' the -Supreme Court -was rejected by 42 votes to 29.' ;.. •'. ; In favour of Mr. • Fisher's amendment' i (29)— ;V t; ;; : . / V/V/;: Allen ':■ M'Laien Anderson .- MalcolmBuchanan .' / '-. Mander ' • . i.. Buick y .Massey, Dive Newman "r ~ Duncan, J. Nosworthy . Fisher Okey Fraser ; . • I'earce ' . Guthrie ;, . '"y Phillipps /..; Hardy / Rhodes , ; ~ ■ '/ Herdman ;;'-"'• : Scott ■ Herries Taylor, T. B. Hine. - Thomson,;G. M. Hogg Wilford . Lang /y.;;-.;//. Against the Amendment (42). .- Arnold -' ~ Macdonald \ Brown M'Kenzie, Hon. R. Biiddo. : Mackenzie; Hon/T. • Carroli • '•: !'Millar/ .-' Clark y. . V Myc-rs y Craigie . , Ngata. Colvm Parata Davey , Poland, ' Dillon - I'oolo • Duncan, T. : Reed EH ■ . ; Russell . ■ Forbes Rangihiroa ' 1 Field ; .. Ross., ' ;,;•//'/ Graham : Smith Greenslade: ~ ■ Steward , '. Hall Seddon Hogan . Sidoy' Hanan ' . i. Stallworthy • Lawry' " . . Taylor,; E. H. , Luke ; ; . Ward ' -I taiiTenson. • The pairs.-were:-'. . . For the . 'amendment:. Messrs.. Wright and Bollard. : ■ . Against -the amendment: Messrs. Buxton and-Glover... -

ANOTHER AMENDMENT. THE HONOUR OF MEMBERS. The Hon. R. MTCenzie then moved as an "amendment that the charges be referred - toa select ': committee,.. consisting of . Messrs. Allen," Buchanan, Fraser, Graham,' Hanan, Massey, Myers, Hon. J. A. Millar, Reed, and the Prime Minister; five to be a quorum. He went on to say that there could be no doubt'but'that the charges were brought' in the way. of an implication against members 'of : the. Administration and menibers of the House. It was the duty" of ■ Parliament to maintain the honour of members. He challenged Mr. Hine to give the names, and any informationwhich he liked. That would give Mr. /Hine his opportunity "to electrify the countryln the charges there were allegationsof conspiracy on the part of members, also of corruption in their public position— offonces which wero met by: expulsion from Parliament at Home.- The proposed committee'was a . proper, committee to investigate these ' charges. Until Mr. Hine gave names lie would prefer to believe that the charges were unfounded.. Mr. Hine had, in his. opinion, been carried away in a; desire to associate the Govornment with "Tammanyism." It was due to all the members of the House

that an exhaustive , inquiry should 'be held. If Mr. Hine now attempted to shirk his responsibility it would be the duty of the 'House to deal with himin the manner which had been adopted in previous instances of. the ,kind. All those who came before the l committee would bo satisfied that the tribunal was an impartial , one. ( . Mr. Lang, (Manukau):said that if the .charges were brought as'Mr; MUenzie had said to blacken the Government,; was it fair that two Ministers should be placed on the committee of 'inquiry.? To him it appeared ,to be a very extraordinary position. It -was regrettable that party feeling had entered into the matter. First of all "- the. Prime Minister had declared that no committee would be set up until the names had been given. Were the Government Afraid? • Although the names had' not, been disclosed, .he now wanted the 1 matter to go before a committee 6f the House; Were the 1 Government afraid ,to let. the matter be inquired, into by two judges of the :Supreme Court? , Sir Joseph: Youwill find that we■ are i afraid. of nothing. • Mr. T. E. Taylor • (Christchurch North) .said that: he,did not: think that . Mr. Hine should be. allowed to go outside the allegations. Apparently Air. Hine wanted to have the,whole system, of purchase .of estates inquired into. He should; not be' allowed to introduce new matter, as he had done that'evening.' -."The Hon: .E; M'Kenzie,: in reply, to /Mr.. Lang,' said that if Mr. Hine could sheet home any semblance of a chargei against either of the Ministers, on the. committee he was /sure'.'that .they would at' once .retire;' v. : " ' Mr. Allen (Bruce)' asked if. the.: press. would be admitted to. the inquiry. Sir Joseph:. That- is, a matter for : tie' committee. V , Mr. Allen: No, L think it- is 'armatter ■for the House. ... ;. Mr. Newinah ,(Manawatu) reminded .the. House; that Mr. Hine had promised ' to; give \the names : if: two .judges- were' ap-. pointed to inquire into. 'the /.charges.'.. . The; Primo Minister, thought that ,Mr., Hine Should give the names without, any reservation." '

Select Committee Set Up. ■ The proposal to set up the special ■committee, was.then agreed.to. ; - ■ Mr. Allen (Bruce) asked whether the inquiry. was to apply to. all lands purchased by; tho ,Crown. ; ' Sir'. Joseph':, All ;private ; .estate ' that. .have been, acquired.. \ ■ .-. -,Mr. Allen: From any owners—the Native and European? . i ' : -~ . ■ Sir Joseph: I will see that'it will apply to all, lands purchased; by the Crown,. so that any; oharge' may be inquired, into. ■ : Mr./- Hine ; then .idrew attention to the fact , that the' motion stated' that ..the in-.-guiry .was; to. cover purchases, by the Land,, Purchase ■ Board. . When- -he . had made.the charges he had stated that he. was; referring! to: purchases by; the' Crowni The .motion, should ,be - further- amended.:, -;It, was decided, on the, proposal of the. Prime Minister, that, the 'scope, of the 'in-, quiry. should,cover laid .puronases by tho Crown instead of purchases by the .Land i Purchase Board. . ' ' Mr.' Allen was of . opinion thatthe 'Prime Minister, should' make quite clear the 'scope/ of 'the' purchases/wluch; mightbe inquired into.;. . .. The Prime Minister ' replied that ,■ ho was not in favour of Mr; Hino having a roving. commission.'' Whai he desired was' that ' the inquiry, should bo ooncluded within a month. ;. ■', /,; ,;■'/ It -was agreed, on tho- motion' of the Hon. D.Buddo, that the ; Committee should report within a month. /.'./:; . v • Should tho Press b« Admitted? . -Mr. Anderson (Mataura) moved that the proceedings, be 'open: to the, press during ■: •the taking of.evidence. - . , . ' Mr. Nosworthy (Ashburton); secondedthe.'motion- ./;.'j,;..;' ' The:, Prime Minister said' he' supported: -the,'idea of the press being .present but; he .objected to 1 thel, motionvbeihg/moved' by- the. t-.v'o moinbors of tho Opposition, as it was; practicallr dictating what should 1 ,be .done. He would oppose', the. motion : cause of. the/unusual/iprocedure) adopted.. He ; ; did: /not, know . that ; thie ';• committee' should mot inquire into matters of valua-: ■tion., Ho had;-some information of con-, sidorablo importanoo'—- . ' ; Mr. Fisher roso 'to • a point: l of:, order that. the; Prime Minister;; was going-, outside .the. question,'and Tras-upheld by the Speaker../,;;;' ;/ The proposal to admit tho press- waß carried by. 38 votes to 30. _ . .. •; •• ; /In./'favour. ,of the. admittance of tho press.-(38). -/.; Allen ' Lawry Anderson . ' - Luke . Buchanan ; M'Laren • 1 Buick : Malcolm . • • ' Clark. ; ,v-; ;. Mandor ;/:;?;Vu-' : ;■./;'/ Divo Massey Duncan, J. 'li'f Fisher ■' ;' Newman '. . ' ' Forbes . / • Noisirorthy ,• • ■ Fraser - Okey ' ' - 'Greenslade Pearce ■ Guthrie ' ; .\;• Phillipps '■ Hardy t Poole Herdmam : Rhodes V v Herrios vv/.: ' Scott , ,y .y: : Hino' Taylor, T. E. Hogg ;;,-/ Thomson, G. M. Lang-,- ; ; Wilford ; /;V,r»;'.,/-,-V:;/'::;;; Lauronscai. .. , Wright - Against press being admitted (30).. Brown v; : 'Miliar;;'-'' Buddo 1 Ngata Carroll .-. ■ , ■ Parata. • ' Colvin : - - . Poland .■, -Davey'/y V.;/- .'' CEtaneihiroa ;;;.;: ■' -. /'-; ■Dillon" ;'Reed;.',';::./ Duncan, T. • Ross ail. . .'R-ussoir Field .; ' Seddon - Graham ... ' Sidey Hall ■ Smith' •. Hogan ' , •/; ■•:' Stallworthy '. '~ Macdonald- Taylor, E. H. "• ' ' M'Kenzie, R. Ward ■- - Mackenzie, T. .r-Witty:' :'>' ■/ ■ The Hon.-Mr. Ngata then moved that the'. words "unless the' committee '' shall, resolve. otherwise" should bo added to: the' motion; (Oil's!) ■ V;', • - '--/. : i The ;.Prime Minister 'expressed.'the hope that his colleague would'/ withdraw , the amendment. ; The -decision'; ,of '. the 1 ;Houso had been given, and. he was quite,satisfied with it. He did not wish to see tho matter prolonged. • ' . . The Hon.; Mr.' Ngata: "At the request of the; Prime /Minister I-.; ask .leave - to withdraw the amendment." -/•/;../ -Mr. Russell. (Avon) asked 'Mr.j Speaker to rulo whether - the press would bo allowed .to remain when the committee was deliberating; . - '.- ;,' : /' '/ .. - ',- Mr. Speaker said that; it,was not his . duty to express an opinion on a resolution. • /'.., Mr. - Russell: -It - would he of-.interest to the .House, as you may .have to settle; the point later.' • . •' . "Sufficient for the. day 1 is tho evil thereof," was Mr. Speaker's rejoinder./: The Hon. R. M'Kenzie wanted to know whether the press. would bo allowed to publish the evidence from day to day. ; Mr. Speaker: The press'being permitted to take evidence it is entitled to do what it .likes with it. On the : motion of Mr. Poole, it' was then. agreed that • the press, should not bo allowed to' be present whilst , the committee was, deliberating. The original motion ,in regard, to the whole question (as amended) was .then agreed to. . .