THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 4, Issue 933, 28 September 1910, Page 6

THE HOUSE.

;^hen ; House; resumed; its 'sittings. .V--2 ■■■>; ]A\ Cement enable"; the;a>m's;&%&''■ jraiyrto: reclaim .^rtionioi'the^'foreslioie' ;* { S^-iVpf ■;)lin&tpne.>lslaHd,7 .w'as ; 'read 'a'.\thirjd: Jp^^:Jtme'.and; passedKiv;^:: : '-: r ;' : . ; ■ : : : ■. ■■.././"ii :: : --;K. fSpff?^sS^od'pf bi iiils: mssep^s-K^V; Railway..' arid ?Road: Improve-;. J-^j-'J^AmeMnierit^ ;BiUvyrerej:piit ithrough" ;>?their/-re-' i';'.. : ~ : >Y^inainiri^ t;00,% CO^inmE;;NV,;fciy i'K&tli^CSmmittfee^oir'? t hes;Publib riVWbrks y;-:;W' ; ll^ri'BUi;.fbr.i£li7so,ooo;?^ .;0: -'''iM/Mr.;MASSEY;complained:that 'so few ;■:"'';?/,/deta0sj'wer8,'give'n : m ■;-; :i :'* yipended:/:'' WS: i'-r 'f:,<., : ;;iy -*■: 'V^'-i:'k4Mr/^.VMilßN>l'(Bruce)>''ftrusted.'''.that : .; : wbuld'■:.%. dono;;to; help^tho ; ;gold-. Siv^'fe'/.iiiinin'g-™ j; ";" ? ;„WILFOBD ".-: (Hut%considered ; tHat: sK/^fJthe iscope; of 'the; schedule.; 6hould,'b6;\ in-" : provide' fqKtbe;;experiditrire:;of-if-":;6;-'jmoneys'.in' thedevelopment 'of-.'oil.fields.!'.,' 1 f Mr. s/ BUCHANAN /;;.-: ( Wajrarapa);';-.;' ex-; ;tho.. ! top^ithat t ; the.'^Government Jysit Jiwtfuld > give.' ( K-v;J'-^ 'C i ;^. I K'V«»mmomcati6£ ; '- i i''i:V--.i ,; Mr;>LTJKE.; (Wellington.'' Suburbs) ;•' said j'slSSj-i-that- twofsteamers were being'delayed: in 1 - -'u'ofi ; : .v :'"S; y.-..'lf:; ..'workshops':

turn' 1 out sufficient rolling-stock ' i'4;U"s :|eo ' me ' of .'the. work:: should :be given''-'.tou'pri-l ''employefsVi;: : lf Vthat;;w!ere .done --Jit' ; lan-; Wg&rWuP PRIME J;.:/'/';: yxfel/legislation, would ; : D'eireouiied,_t6. : deal: :;j.!?''c^C.SthßiGoyernirient'should.help the.'industry, :g;;rg\/»!but ; /it?woiM iti; 'regard \to;"priyate;;telephbnes; extended.;'. He:preferred'-to.: put, 'o\v-y;i&jb ''details'tbfiwhich.; Mr; 'Massey ,'ail Tided 'SiS> ! v ; fin';/.the'jPubHoWprks/Statement. ;^>V: ,;^

si;-;!W|prf Retails. :i Desired;' P/KKMi.;, MASSEY;' object^,;to>;the ; ;meagre-; -the 'details -in;Vthe ;tb \V'-' ; v*h'6;BiU,'-and-m6ved-.'an amendment hav«:;S!siis -for! its'-object''the'virisertip'i'ofr'ipar-' : .;.;'.;'iticulars iasOto .how :the;:mbney. was .to be who:;opposed. ;:: :■,; ■■ ithe.'amerarhent,'■ said; i>.^would mean- that 5 ;;x ithe ;Loan >BilUwould:\have. to;>be',def erred. /Iv'ifuntil': the. Public'Works,-Statement; and vV;;.';' ithe Railways.Authorisation. Bill "had-been.' :;,'.'K'ldealt ; with. - '.'Dp;' till now.' the.Government;'...v'4jdid not :know'/ whether, /it would; propose, !.;:&:jto'.-.authorise:. ; aiiy.'-new. railwaysf this/year.; :£!■'■Z (Of r -'course, V iti;might.:/; ./Neither ■-:' did"', the' : : jvy- jGpyerrunent:. Kaow //how '■■•;.much- ;ifc; would ;->:;;■ (suggest :'-should, be placed • opposite-'each s^7traiway: ;:^.' ;;':■'•>"■; '■:..;,:'/: hkC ■'-. ■■>'": .•".'■■ v'-'■.■' /■. -vV : g.;-Mr;' ; mem-. :-/?/.; ibers'.' would .'sooner.JseeUmoney., set aside ;; ~;.;for.' good- railways' in ;the : -North. Island ;. ; -;'.:Vth*ari; on;; the}. Midland; railway '.'.wild-cat : ;-'i£ Bcheme.t.v:t"; r;v5Wi.. , ':;:... ; --:'; : '; : j-';:..;.'.;;:,j ; -;!v. : / : //; :;'.';•?,;'■ Sir/ : Joseph:pi?;am -'■, surprised;::that 'the ■v'K.i/Canterbury members should remain silent '.■'-.:-" jdn'dei '-'-. such''-"a'-'-' grave■;■ reflections-- ■"■/•; ■■•'■•••'. .;;y:;;;.M r ;;;jiASSET : ; thought:, thatf;ffie;';Min, ;":>';; ■/■/Sster::.should ';:taU."],"th.e>;Honse /how : mucli. ;';:. : /'/dt proposed .'to'.s'pend on-the Midland andft;:;'/)other ; .raUways'. ; .';/;: : :;/''...;- s v/;:;' ; V.'/': ;.•':: ■ v;U/: ;/Mr:J, WRIGHT ::(Wemngtbn/South)':de;.v'!:.>;|Olared;.'that/ the North 7 'lslandVhadohot ;:.,;-'; fen' treated-; fairly: in;the. matter/. ..of. ,';.;; public: works'/expenditure.'/ It .was; now //P:;taeU : /.knowri .that /the 'North .Island rail-. ;;';/;: (ways', paid; much .'better, than the South ::4^ ; .|3sland.. railways.:-;He^.would,.-ini particuVvlikevto/zljiiow'■ ~; whether /it;; was.;; in? ;.' '■:£. '(tended to vote anything, towards .tlio cost. ■'T;- ( cf 'further^'constructing-:the Westport. to •■ K sßeeftoh line. ; Prom, what: had,- come -.to, -:i;'": 'Jiis'.iknowledg'e'.'.it.-'was:-'.doubtful'-'.'whether. / ;;v/;the line would/ever/- pay/axle grease. - -He ';;■'; [understood that it had ! been. started > from ,:;:.:'ithe Westport end, and carried!up the. s vrißuller.som.e little'distance.. gen--admitted.that / long,'..- before' ''it ■■.] '.■• jeacned Reefton, the'. grass .would "have :;.';.;.. CTOwaknee; deep. at. "the Westport end. :.:';:-lBy .the time, the, .line .was ;finished it \ '.:,i.:'.rffould.take a'.: squad of "surveyors to locate ..'•/jthev-line 'at the Westport'end;;.' :• •, .'-,. -.; (Too Great'-'an Expenditure on Railways.:' ,:./. y , jj r; ;;HOGG'^Mastertbh) ; "-. said;' that '' it -. ':■'■'<;Was decided. some.years ago ..to, go. slow; ' • ; fbut now the:. Government was going, more ."-,'.-. .rapidly '.than, ever.-.,'!He 'would ■■ like ~to: ■-.>.". jkno.w". whether .the Midland railway would. .-be reproductive.'.':'-. (Cries of:;", Yes" and ... '"No.");,; As regards-railways,", the co'un-. : : ""try; was getting .near; the. end :of its. :■--, ; tether; J;-' : :,:': r i>i' : ' ■■'.-,'■■ '. Sir Joseph: What about that line you -■■>{■'■ want.near.Mastcrton? : ' .-. .'V-',••''.■; :■.'._,. ! . .... Mr. Hogg: Well,-1 don'tknow whether ■■'■',•'• I willget it j list now. '-.•',.; V .-■'■:%;.' :.>. In.-.conclusion, Mr.'Hogg.said that the ..sooner, the whole question of ■■' railway ".".' : construction:; a.nd- railway management '■'~'- was : looked into the .better. It was his ~ opinion that, new roads and bridges :*hould-be pushed: ahead. . •.;. r :.-. : The.CHAIRMAN -ruled, the proposed '■.':/-■■ amendment out ,of order on the ground -..that.any. amendment which was. intended . to divert the object of anymoneysin the : :..;:-''.', schedule mustibe brought down by Governor's Message. .-.., ■ """.■': A motion by Mr. Massey that progress , should be reported'in order to'enable the '. . Tilling of Mr'.' Speaker to be taken was '■■■'- carried by Si votes to 24; . : •' W-"- Mr. SPEAKER held that the amer-.d-v.'.raent was. perfectly in. order.., This ap-.:-"propriation was one for'4Boo,ooo for rail- • 'ways. He' defined "railways" to mean "authorised railways." If the 'amendment wore carried it.would-• then .be in order : for the CommiW»b to insertthe',namesi.of '•■•, tho difforent ■ lines/upon ..which . the Gov- /.;■ ernbr intended : that, these : moneys might ■'.''•; be expended..'vii'-' ;'; '- ,Hori.:'J...A. : Millar: .Shall the Crown, ;. or to Committeo certify as to show much :,': 76 to bq 'allocated to each, railway?.

Mr. Speaker: The Committee cannot allocate to'any particular railway any particular amount. . - At-this stage Mr. Massey's amendment was rejected by 39 votes to 2-1. The Bill was then reported without amendment. . ' '~.■ STATE ADVANCES"]BIU. v•'V':'■-■^.\IJa , 6RTAIJT■'DEBATE. , ■■- In.Committee on the New Zealand State Guaranteed Advances Amendment Bill, .Mr.; ROSS ; (Pahiatua) pointed out that' Clause;7o-bf thov.Loans. to. Local Bodies Act;/provided that where - local bodies found that a loan that they had raised, was insuflicient to complete • tho works for,..which 'it was -raised.>an. additional teh;per r 'cent.:'could be 'advanced without recourse'to another poll r of : the Upon the statute being; consolidated, it was -presumed; that Section 74 of the New Zealand State Advances Act - reenacted that provision. In his';work on "Local •'..Government ■in Counties"; Mr.' Joliffe had stated that if Section .74 meant anything :.at 'all, it' meant the: re-enact-ment, of Section -70,.0f. the;original Act. Hr. ■ Martin,. however,: had. come to an :opposite-vopinibn.----;---Mr..-----'-'Eoss-;'-.tlierefore. stated: that he -would ,at; the right time ■ move that Section 74 in the State. Advances.Bill, be repealed -with; a'view to the .'substitution' of Section; 70 of the' to. Local/Bodies;;,.-;;.'. ' s :; ; '•..;

>On; Clause 3 : (which; rejates au•thority.. to;raise,-moneys) ';'-\.. . ; ' -; . .-. ",:;The'- PRLME-MINISTER,;- : in -replyto.- criticism ';; ;by : ; Mr.: ■'■ Allen, " said that '.at .present ..it-was: necessary. • to go'i'on: the market ;separately for State advances .money's; and'; an;ordinary loan; As'the;- Dominion could- not" go on'the market' for,,two' loans at- the "one time it: would mean .that one' .would; have ', to be.< ; deferred...;-;TJnder -his; 'new; proposal,': both; loans'-might be- raised; as; one loan, arid the••■ moneys' .for the State; Advances Department would be .transferred to it. By.'this 'means,the: heayy; discount which • would"otherwise.ifollow;' the deferring, of one of ; the.loans.would'be avoided.'- ''.;. 'Local Bodies' Sinkinfi Funds,;: ' ; ;;; ■■' ToSClause' 6, whiolv provides' thatjnothiiig; in the Aot'r shall--.limit-of/restrict the, powers of the Minister to raise-moneys in-the-manner:; provided by.! the principal /Act ■■ x ' ■■'.'-■"'■■ : '■ ''-■'. /■'- :■:; ■'';■..'' ■' <: :• ". : 'Mr,:/GUTHKD3.''.'(Oro'iia)."'.moyed an 'ameMment Cas:/follows:—'Provided;. that the loans to. local; bodies under the.'pro-, visions of this'.Act shall-haye the .sinking fund paid-out of the consolidated revenue as' provided' for: .under the Loans to' Local Bodies ;l Act, .1908." ■:■'■ :';:'-■%:'.:'' ;■":''./'; :'■ The-'PRME MINISTER -said .that Mr.-; Guthriemightjustias well, add: "Arid the rest : of.' the ; people, are,', 'to: provide,', the whble;of the moneys foj- nothing^".:,:He; went on'to. say;that if/the, House agreed; he'was prepared 7 to go'back to-the - old, system.'-but he knew : what would-happen'.' The-- local .'bodies'^appreciated\ the: / :new; system,'and'would object';to: the proposal.; Only':' ; eighteeh/ months', ago; there; were: scores of local bodies-.which 'could not obr taitf money:/from' anybody, v. ;.;>. /.iMr/RhodesV-Whyvnot-give them'-their chojceVas;to; which-system ;:they should. ./'■■■ •'" Sir; Joseph; ,Oh; :V, ' :?Proceedirig, ,'Sir'-Josephisaid- that: not, long ago some' people-were, getting 6 Eer cent ; .:fromisorae!,pf.; the local ■bodies. ■■..,;;-; '-'Mr; WILFORD' (Hutt) .at,;this .stage: raised; the :pointl:tiiaithe;proDOsedj!lau.sa was an 'clause.. • ... v; Mf.-.,Chaifman';upheld the :point.'v ;;;;:;

Termiof 'Loans'.to"Sßttie'ijs; ..;•';;•,; * C;\j)■ kOSS (Pahiatua) .moved an amend-. men^aving';fo'r ; ; its:object.the,deletion;Ot Clause; ll^wMch'prpyides; thai .advances to'"'settlers f or . .20, -.30, . 0r..361 years'-according tb- the; amount.of.-loan), • as'he preferred.a'classification of..seexmties;% The Prime- Minister said that the Department 'was;! -quitey.a applications ;<for_ small. loans to.; settlers; on account V, of.;; the -fact;; that, the" security wasihot good.enough.-forsuch 'a J lqng'terrii'.of■ lpan;;as : ;.was nowjprovided. under the-statute.':'" :, '.■'-,-. J ':'■■'■,, ?r/I^e-PElMiErMlNlspß : ,said;Jie;,could countryvlands.a-Hornet's;,nest wpuld.be brought.about'.their.-'earsj.andrhe was not igoing-'to 'allow'this;.....The..clause as.it stpbd.>was;;inr;the/best\interes(sy:pf, ? the country-settlers:!- . ; '■;'/,*i'vV''':':,£?>' • -Mr HOGG' (Masterton) thought .the BillWras a : -good.-one, ; but,there| should be. a^-distinction v drawn! |be^n;;..- buildings and between ::land.;: ; The;e .should , be no distinctions between, the, man who bor-. irp^d;^loo: ; ;andvthe,;mari;who^rro^ /that''the-: settler'who .£W. under "this! proposal-would.;have topay.it. back'ativth'e-itate^of'B. per,cent.vright'{beV principal-.'Actthe^would. % i^Th^'ptiine, , ; Minlsterr;l^'is';nb( 8 cent^:'-'-";' ;v '.'■■ ■ a'-'v-.-■: '; J ■■• '■;. ': v '■'••', ~ f. ■■ : . .-» 'i. -...': ;.'.Mr.:-Eeed':,lt.:is near, enough to. a trap-.; tionr The", settler .whom ,they'.wanted to ':get the' money -was the. ;one ;^who uwould ■put-thei'moriey but on-his land;and make, the land.reproductive;...;.. ~ ... ->. ;iV-Mr;'.JENNlNGS,'.(Taimiarunui)..: urged the Prime -Minister, to stick-K'the -Jjill. If -he did not, a'great deal of harm would tbe/.smaU .settler^..:,-;, :;. FaWur^th»^fPlu"fl»^.--.-' ; :V'''l"-. ; i' ; 1 ; 'MrVEUSSEEfc-(AVpn); ;held-; tbaty !the leasehbldere'were ,not un:der'.^he./Advances;A'ctv,with.the, .result, that the had - begun; to, be, looked UDOtt as a bad tenure. ~ : ;: : : .■".-,-• : The PEIME " MINISTER emphasised the fact; that if the law were not, amended'nine! out'of-' ten- settlers who wanted loans:of £100 would;haye.to be refused. V Mr' POLAND' (Ohinemuri) said that he bailed to-see- why ;these settlers could not get their-loaririf -they.'.had: the.; necessary security: If a man.was content .with only a. small: advance;he^iad; to repay ■%&<*&, years, but '• if ;he; plunged, and .sought .£SOO hb.would;be given;36V years;within which to-repay...;;; :"; : j';'■-■■•," '..-' ;.'';' .;.'•;'■'■') '"■•'■ .--,-

Anvlmportant Amendment; ,-■ •:':;* ■';- ' !: The : Pßliilß" MINISTER- at: this stage said tha"t,ho. would provide three classifications 'both rin. 'respect /of: advances to, settled and,the,,workers.. He would.protvko that' in the'case of" a : first-c ass security the term should>b.e,3Gi. years or. a second-class security /3Q years, .and for a third-class seeurity^O..years.^The,object, was' to provide a sciheme under,Tvhich the ' Departraeni: might iend to small settlers.''(Hear,, hears.), ,' " •■ ■ •; • ■ _■ fin view of this 'proposal .Mr. "Ross agreed' to withdraw, his amendment. : . It was then agreed that Causes 11.and. 12, dealing - with. the conditions of ad-. vmc«s ito workers respeptive-; lv be deleted: and a m; the fori indicated'/ Prime: Minister was added;to"the;;Bill.'';V/. ... . ~ ~ "■lt. Svas agreed,: on the;' motion.:of. the Prime^:Minister,: that., a,, further advance might be made to-a worker.-who .had" received/not more than ..£350. under adopted to: the; effect that an additional; tensor cent.' by way; of advance might be. obtained under certain conditions by a local body, to .comI>l Speaking°on"an amendment moved by Mr? Ross, that, applications for advances not,-exceeding ,fsoo.;by, Crown .tenants should have priority over another apPlfcations (wh>h was wjectoiJ.'Sir JoAVard. said. that notification had gone out' that, advances; should be given un to again. ~■;.. '. j, -■. "' , Mr ROSS (Pahiatua)', next proposed Hint- where the lessee's interest in.a lease las slo™ assess than the.vaue of his advance may be granted up to three-fifths of .the improvements pffpcted bv tho lessee. 1 - The clause was rejected.by 35 votes, to, ' : 29.,. .:' ."■.-.•'■■."■' ' ■;. LAND FINANCE BILL. AN IMPORTANT POINT.'" In Committee on the Land Finance The PRIME MINISTER, replying to Mr Praser, said that the intention of the' Act was that the land of an, association was to be responsible for the whole of the advance. He was opposed to the suggestion that the Public Trustee should find the money to work thb allotment, .of a defaulting member of an association. If one member retired, tho amount required for the working of the allotment of a defaulting member was to bo made up by a charge on, Die land itself and the association was to be responsible to see that it-was carried out.

After tho short title had been passed, progress was reported, and tho Houso at 1.55 a.m. adjourned. •STATE GUARANTEED ADVANCES. Notice was given- by tho Prime Minister yesterday of his intention to move that several new "clauses be added to the Now Zealand State-Guaranteed Advances Amendment Bill. Tho additional clauses provide that debentures may be issued in satisfaction of purchase money or compensation' for land acquired under tho-Land, for Settlement Act. In regard, to ,tho .opening..up of; land; for settlement,. no money shall be expended for roads and bridges on Crown lands : unless the block is sot apart, for selection.-