ENGINEERS' DISPUTE.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 930, 24 September 1910, Page 4

ENGINEERS' DISPUTE.

; . n/' i! -o — —• - ;; . ' THE EMPLOYERS' ?iDE. ' ' DECLINE OF THE INDUSTRY. ' '.dispute,, in . which;.!tho_ AYellingt-on branch of tho Amalgamated Society of Engineers .is asking for a new awafd,; was further heard by tbo Arbitration Court yesterday morning. Mr. .Justic<kSim (President), Mr. J. A. M'Cullough (workers' representative), and,, Mr. '$/.•: Scott .(employers' representative)'' wero oh tiie'Bench. 'Mr.. Vi., G. D.Evans .conducted the case for. tho iinion, and Sir. 11. F. Allen for 'the employers.) ; ■; - j An Olive, Branch. • Mr. Evaiis said tho union was prepared to' accept the Christchurch agree-: mont, which included limitation of apprentices ■ and ; conditional--.'preference, clause. ' . '* ." His. Honour, remarked , that'the' words making preference conditional really .made.no"difference, becauso it had been decided-years ago by Mr. Justice Clinp-. m.ilh th&t'iui. employer'' when-engaging' men was. the sole judge of their fitness for-the ivork; and so 'long as ho '-eserrcisecj' his judgment : honestly. and fair-' ,appeal. It;: might'Jbe.as well to put in. tho words, so as to mako the position clear te magistrates ..when- dealing;'.with;; actions' for breadhps of 'awards'. ' "''V"""' 1 ; ; Mr. Evans, in' reply to.',the Judge, said : tho ■■ wages ;in ; : the. : Canterbury , agreementjwere is. 4jd.. an hour a day), the'same as the present , wages, in; . The apprenticeship, limit?, was ;ono* apprentice. to; dne-'-jpur-. neyman. ■ ' Employers Refuse 'Offer.".' Mr.; Allen said the employers could not - agree to tho Canterbury award; The question of apprentices was a very serious one,' as lie hoped to. proved . - The Judge: What restriction do you 'suggest?:. v:;; ; • V! ;...; ~ ''Mr'.Allen:. Nonei '.We wknt 'free-; : dom.;. ; Continuing, Mr...Allen; said.the ipprient'fees 'for'; . moulding and' other ''branches, but only for engineering proper. Very many, of tbeni after; apprenticer on :rfecord tliai/raahy'i New,'Zealand-train'ed' ' . en-, gmeers,. had: :'gwd . 'positions . in other .couptri.os.-:The .{present, in tlie' local works would bo not, more than' three- apprentices to one journeyman. The- employers' objected to the'-'limita-prefer-, ehcpl-'-clause'.'-'' They- objected also to the wages clause,.; but .they did, not re-. as such 'a' seiiouj .matter., as •bKg'.'-othdr twoMrl..' : Alle.ii.'weht on';to fofer: to the-'recent deputation 'to Ministers apd.thp' cyideriee there given .as to tbo declining condition of tho engineerings trade... If additional burdens' were impps.ejL.ithey/would'.be,, very;,fcarful for -the future i 6f what -was ; entitled-; to'bo .looked jtipoii... as; one : <:6f(?tlie deadiiigindustries: of-. any, country.;.' Touching on .the .'preference question, vMr. Allen remarked; 'that'-"returns..' showed r.that: a yeryi'.sinallii proportioffiof '-tibr engineers ,became>;ih6mbers; : of s thVi'Amalgamated Society. . • Jfemborship .of: 'the', society . in no -'.way. a proof of. competence. . Eyidonco for . the-employees 'was then called.;, .;: ; ; ; .V/i' .:- ."Don't Uoo Thqir Heads." . Robert- George Deiitoiij engineer, Wel--lie -]]a'<l;;.bGoii - 30 year-s in 'took; ;;.ujj^fEe! .lighter? bteiighesiof : tradei'Ci; ; ;Ho was-, tryihgito.'.ibuild'; up :.'a' 'smili.iafti-' fcould ;the^jo(fi tt ft''They^;ebuld : no't seem. to ."use their heads" enough tq i; , down--; tbp^cost.fi.TliOi;.:- trade generally ".was very, bad, and for some timo past- he had kept tho staff going; oil work tliat -was 'hot-.really required. He employed one boy to one man when busy. " He now bad seven boys and five m'en. - v .' y 3 ;. >His--Hohour:;tJie.- : . ; sKp 'limitation;, as in '.Canterbury;'in-., convenience you? vsaid; onaiaipprentico-.-.to. one him'^hen v .ho'-.was 'busy. . - , To"Mr._ Evans: He. did not object to the rate of pay. r;;'; ; ' William Orabtreo, ironfounder, Wellington,' 'flaid tho s'tato 'of' tlie engineering ; trade.;was, very,; much worso now than, it had.jbeen: fotithe 15 years,, and' there VJhS' no .sign', of improvement. Freightsv''nHd .landihgi charges', as lx;tweeu the materials used , by. him and i the finished article, .against ..which' ho h'ad to - compete, gayo 'him no • advant-' :age.'j;.Hb'Jhad .eight - jomneymeh-ahd .ten apprentices. He did not'think the. pro-. ference clause asked' for.- would '.makb much difference to • : h*imj though v ho wished- ,to be able to choose, .his own -the-union -iriado no-difference, in bis- shop. . : To iVfe Evans: The, boys were all apprentices," but riot 1 indentured..: ; "Trying to Crush us Out." ■ f)avKl .ißobertson! was , jane 0f.,.th0, qldest .engineers im -Wellington. l Ho, had sever known tlio 'trado so bad in all his -experience. -, Three-parts-of tho machinery in his, shop were ;Stand--ing -idlo,—Tho demand for a new award - looked.,;..like., trying . to crush - the em'ployers' .out.:, /.They; were being so han-. ;dioapped. that . soon, thejf-,might -.be'.un.'abl&'.to'imako a jiving.V; closed ago';'owing' to•: bad trade and-'; low:;.price's, arid.. others - wero talk-: ing. :ofvrselling in -for 'something :,j better '■. than ,engineering. ■fEeV indent;! agents; wßro'-doiiigt- all 'the Msiness/jand tho, foundries /were; being snuffed right out. He had niea andi'-ibout fifteen , apprentices,; all ')Oiigineei'irig i :'and patte'rk-m'akiiig; , He . cqurd:'not'. get apprentices, for moiilding::and''.i)lacksmithing. ; Threo .of. 'his apprentices;; v had lately joinedtho Uriipn -/''Company ... -.as ~ :.cngineers; Thefreezing . companies; drew their , ; engineers from. ,;,sea-going 'inert';because ' they wero .acquainted with several branches, of the trade. Limitation: of apprentices in thb':'6ngin-'oOring'-trado would,' therefore;;: bflj'pre-.- ' judicial :to-the' freezing companies;; ..fie, was against a preference', cla'usd"" Hb, considere<l lie had to give employment fir.st to . the marine, who were discharged whenover a s'iip was laid up. Mr.f Evans:'. If we had limitation of apprentices in .tho engineering" branch, would there not ,bo more boys available for the branches? -' ; : . ; Withessi;'l don't think' Bo.: , ; Mr. Evans : What; would becom'o of them, then? '. > ■' : ~.,,W.jtn95,5.: They would go* on' just."as 'they are going now. .'. - - . "Mr. Evans: What'-becomes. of .all ,tho boysy >whb Vi have' been ''trained" as. engineers, and have'gone to sea?. Are they swallowed upj.;or what?;- .. J,.. v .... Witness ; : .Somo. of theni suffer from J-,i disease.-''.' . _ " , -Mr. Evans:- Do you mean' iiicpmpet'ency?. . . _ Witness: There are other diseases besides incompetency. i,. No Time to Hunt for Unionists. James' Cable, of the firm of W. Cablo and -Company, said tho trade was, worso .than he-had known'it for. tho : .last .eleven years. He could show figures for a longer period. . v ' ■ i The judge: That is. not. necessary, -it. that, the engineering trade, is in v> a bad way i in Wellington. . .. Witness, continuing,' said no difference was mado in their shop between unionists and non-unionists. Preferonce' would be a great inconvenience, becauso'their work was largely marino repairing,, which, had to bo dono ■ promptly-;* and they.; could not - spare time to hunt round for unionists. They had 26 apprentices in tho engineering branch, anil two in other branches^

and 14 journeymen. Thero should ,bo no limitation of apprentices. Much of. the work was only suitable for boys, and would .yield only boys'- - wages. : ;To Mr. Evans: They could not ring up tho Labour office for men for some of the .places where' they wished to engage thorn. Tho fluctuating nature of the work would make, limitation of apprentices very inconvenient. Probably about ten of tho firm's apprentices were indentured. "A Revolutionary 1 piausfe? Mr. Allen asked the Court if_ they would grant a'condition referring .to apprentices which was in tho ' agreement lately come'to in the engineering, trado nt Auckland. Tho judge': That is quite ;a tionary clause. '. I don't think tho Court is likely to put it. in. It is really "abrogating apprenticeship altogether. , The imaster can get ; rid of. an apprentice at ; any time, and all helias got' to do is to use every" reasonable endeavour to get him another employer. That means nothing Whatever. The Court will have to ihear what the other side has :to say before putting such a clause in. I suppose the union at Auckland did not appreciate what it was doing. The Court has to protect the apprentices. ; ■ Payment of Absent Apprentices. - Mr. Alien said it was unjust that at present an apprentice; could stay away from bis work and. still be entitled to his wages.'-'.The.; Hon,; Mr.. Millar, with whom he hiid 'discussed the matter, proposed 'to remedy tho''in-' justice by' an amendment of the law, so that an apprtuitice would not bo" able to claim. Wages 'if;ho was absent from work owing, to' sickiiess or his own default; or/owing to repairs, etc,, at tho works. There' was a proviso in the Auckland agreement dealing with this point; ~;.. . ', His, Honour pointed out that the Auckland agreement provided that any. time •; lost,, by. an apprentice through his own. ■ default or ,-sickness must be made up before, the- next, year of his apprenticeship' was deemed to begin: He would be paid, but. he must make up the time. ;■ Tho Canterbury clause was similar. ..-"-v ~ : ~ -■ Mr. Allen said lie; thought Mr. Millar's clause, would do. . Tho. Judge pointed: out that an' apprentice w<as entitled under ; common law. to payment,' so; long as the relation, of master and apprentice/continued. There was nothing to prevent terminating. it at any iime.v- ... .. . .... Exemptions Applied For. Mr. W. G: Smith objected, on.behalf of the Union Steam .Ship Company; to ; the limitation of apprentices. He asked ?that the... existing exemptions. under 'this': bead, should, be '.continued: • It had not been objected -to by the dther side. ;' l'i , . Exemptions - from ■ the award -. wero asked" for by' thb Gear Meat Company and/the Wellington ;Meat Export' Company (Mr. W. Grenfell) and by Nelson Brothers, the" North British' Company, ,Bo'i-thwick thb Wanga-' ■nu'i . Freezing. Cpmpa:ny, and.' the Longburn Freezing .'Cornea ny (Mr. W! Pry,'or). Mr. Evans said ho did not ask that, -permanent.\meii! in charge; of . .machinery; at the. ifroezing,; works should bo included- in- the award. Mr. W. H. jMortori (City Engineer), applied for exemption as to hours of work in . regard'; to the drainage puihping. station, arid; the electric' light and power,- and trajnway?-stations. : . .. . . Mr. Allen- and :Mr. Evans both opposed.'an application' :'by the Wellington Gas .Company for exemption. . ;; Mr. v'Dutch, -on behalf of . his own'.firm, arid Messrs.;,'Jenkins and Mack, TJ; \ : Ballinger and' -Co.; J.- Danks and C 0.,, applied for exemption of. ?'and.'''coppersmiths; Mr." Evans , opposed. thß. exemption of tho coppersmiths, and- the Judge remarked •that -..-they . .were now bound .by the present award.; ' ;■ -' . ' . Exemption was also 1 applied - for in respect,of motor-car'drivers (Mr. .Grenfell), Mr. Evans-agreed.-Mr. J. Maxell,bdnks, engineer to the Harbour Board, applied for.the oxeinprtion of that body. Mr.! :Evanß; saidhe would not object; to the board being exempted to tho same extent as under the award. . . . , Mr. Grenfell asked for. the''exemption of Turnbull and'Jpnes and H. A. Smith and Co., on the ; ground. that they, were solely electrical; contractors, - and wero bound by; -. the '^elebtrical. employees' award. The Judge, said . that,. if;* that was so, :they- would bo. struck .'out. . ■ ;; In reply to his Horiour;; 'Mf. Evans said he did not propose to call at Napier, Palmerston North,' or Warigamii, but ho would^attend : th 6' Colirt,' 'as other exemptions might bo asked' for. --.---''.--'VJ**-.. i-.." ■ The hearing ' was .adjourned.^''.'to-"the Court's sitting at , Napier'.'' '-