"A HISTORY OF SURPRISES."

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 924, 17 September 1910, Page 6

"A HISTORY OF SURPRISES."

THE HUTT ROAD -WOJll&v

WHAT THE LOCAL BODIES OWE.

A VIGOROUS DEBATE.

■ MINISTER OF RAILWAYS BACKS DOWN

;>."://./; 'There, was .another very important. , : discussion, in the. House of Representa-/'/-/ZZtives yesterday with refcrenco. : to the '// i Bill which proposes to authorise ;the :Ox-. of- ail additional £35,000 on //:/' railway/works/ /.'/: ij-, :/tlie /Bill'jvyas beingconsidered ~. in Committee-the'Hoii. J'.. A.' Millar (Minister fox RaihuyS), m reply to a '' ;•, . question;.' put. by .Mr.-Massey,/' stated ■ that the Departmental engineers - wero i ./p^.ppipi.pii amount souglit/ V?' £' , wo .! u ' t ! be .sufficient. to' complete . tho work, Tvhich would bo finished bj March 31. He went on to, say that until: Mr. ■ Wilford' referred t-o" the ! matter/ in the. ■: ■,!.■House a fow days prevjously-ho had.no tte" '/J;Z/:/vlocal /.bodies repudiaiiing. any-portion-of, ■ their, vliability- m connection with ■. the ■ |-cons'tructiott'of .-,the.-/iiDad.:..' : been? builtat/ the ■instance/of; tho'/lpcal : ■ bodies, .and Parliament: would not allow : ... / them-to repudiate "tiioir liability.- Therewas.'a'|clear: understanding-that if the. i- . mado tho-road, thu.. local bodies: would..provide-tho-cost;. ' ■ '/ ; i// \- : Mr. Luko / (Weliington;. Suburbs) •; said: i,-:/ that thore -ivas no l ,desir« on the part of j vZ^/v. the:;Wellington ; ,C6i : ii)brati6nHq.'fepudidie' !)/J-;-f. any:/honest/, ofciligatipnregretted: •; • that .the. local bodies had not been con-. details :, scheme;.-: The -Ministerwould have.'been !; welKadyiMd/to/'get/frpm/hisZofficers : .u i'S;S:-j definite/sthteiiiehii'as; to the/cost, of.-ttie road as. distinct from the uost .of. the: r Milway construction noik. ' % I " ar sal d he had already done ; -T&,'c"ost ! of /the; road,'was/£9B, ©i'//,of which £9785:1^3/^!the';purcKase ;pf.. /thij-rajlway/waß vot .which. £18,553 was • for. land purchase. ; Mr. J. Allen: What wan the original estimate ,for -.the - cost. ot the road JkLv.;": works : / -;/.V--J' :/ s v'.: v / ; ' | Mr. Millar: £84,000. -/:■■ Mr. -..Allen:. When. : nider4irM ■ it? ; for f. : Mr. Millar.: It', was made in 1905, and . was ior the road work .and land purchase ' No Written Agreement. - Mr. 'Herdman- . (Wellington . North) // ■ |vsaid '/that'/thoro', djdv'appear -..to^^'b'e^somo: . '/!/misunderstanding ?on. the part of/the //,;:/;//16calJ;bpdiesHj-H©,':w^d/.li^/:tlie/Min/; : ister to givo.,:somo,v.'iuformation::as, to S/Ztho/'^rangeiiientswhichV:/.wasi-j entered' '•V. into ..before. ■:wa|s brpughi ; /, properly-.-the; whole/ would be . ur writing and-available.' . -••• < ./((Jhristchurch' whether^g, v/::;' "Wqrky.baqrljeeii .;carried,' out.-'by.: pontrapt) .'. ;Or,by, day'labour.' -.'He./woulcr. also liko : /.; to know..whether.'/tliere'had:been any specificiv-: .tiona.ufi Also, -bo . wished v to' know by . how iniich-the estimate , had. been ex- ,. ; ,!niore;:waa: alsb .thii point a-s ...; • :.j to how much Viand: would be reclaimed, • . • and'.' what . reveniio. it would/bring in. • ' V Mr. Wright (Wellington' South) ,'sa.id ~ -/ ' that tho origin of. tbiii.trouble appeared ' ... to ; have been-, that iiono ,'of tho local : / /..'bodies .would - take the: .'rfcspohsibilitj! . of. repairing the .roail, winch--usfid. to •v:-:,- be known as the Hutt sludge channel: ; work.had cost a-great deal more than Was/ }tho vcost/Zshuuid '% Zy; he -saddled on. the/local /bodies in . tho vicinity? The road was an 1 arterial y;KZ i wad, : '.. Z Ho- was . afraid; the commission, would Z..- "apportion th'o. cost'among'tho surroundiug local Roches. :,s:,'Mr. Massey: Under the Act it can't Z Z; do . anything else/ .. . . ' : . . CJonti'n'uing his remarks,. Mr. Wright '•/ •... 'said that.ho did-,not sec how some of / ' '.the local, bodies;'could pay-, the' pro- . portion which. .would/lio put on their shoulders .The Hon.;.J; ,A.i-Millar said; that he would like to remind the House who asked that . the w.ork . should be under-;};////■-taken. • Originally' the. local bo<lies .had .; . a. Bill passed enabling them to borrow / . an. unlimifed,auiouii't for,the work. ~At their. Tequest tile lfil! was. repealed, and :Z.;;ZZ/:the,; work/pro^vidied:; for Ain';-a-Bill'wjjich -fu; '/was 'introduced/in; connection/mth/tlie . 'V ; thought of doing, the -work: themselves athey had no.idca ; .of the-cost. No:one. could exactly tell .; . . Mr: /Slalsolm: Have you a record of . tho arrangement . arrived ,at between the. Government, and tho local bodies. .> Mr:. Millar: I:■ have 110 -record: but ; ,'we have.the Bill passed, at. t-ho instance of the local bodieb. ; . Mr. Pav.ey: 'There ;wero deputations Z/•: -to you/from nieriibers of the House. /,. Mr Millar Yes.' Z:!;//Z 'i L ' Trouble Looming Ahead. • /-'... Mr. /Herdman : . Was .there' any writ~f.tien. agreoineiit?' ' . / • Mr.. Millar.:,-No, ,b,ut wo have what Z:, Z • was; intended/ in tho local bodies' own" /'/Z/.Z : jiheasurp.'.zZ// Z/Z/;;Z/ : : /;.'V \'-y: 'Mr.. Herdnian "weiit on to say that //■/' : ;:the ; aTOrpximate liability "of Teach' of''the. local,'.bodies'■.should/,;have/ beeii.'deterZ ! : ■ mined' at/ the .-outset, /.He;; argued,, that // / : .':th'e , cost of tbe formaliou' and ' construction of the' road - alone could bo - . saddled .upon theilocal- bodies. .Under ?///•.'/: th ; e V statute' .--tiiere was no : liabilityon /: the. part ,of .the, local bodies for the. : ; ,/;' cost' of • buying lands and - reclaiming /r!Z ! ' : -iknd/:,;-/Z'/

/ "Mr. 'Miliar:: How. coiild the. road be .constructed without reclamation works? .'-'-Mr; -Herdmau: -We .must go by the '. statute//-■/ ■*. £' :../' ; : '-.' '/ Mr. -Millar ;(warmly): I see. what is coming. There is .going to : bo a legal- • • quibble'. :' ':But I - am' - going to fight out the matter if necessary, first in the ■:' Courts, and then I will, if nccessary, ' tako it .to -|. Parliament. . No , Parlia-; ~ ment wouldallmr the local- bodies to repudiate. an :honest liability.-,:" ' '■ jlr. T. E. Taylor :' So the statute'.is ■ the only, agreement:; there should have •'been.'another. ' Wright . ; (Wellington •. South) wished to know if 'it;wasintended .to , divide: the proceeds ifrom ,the sale of the : old road 'among the- local bodies. ;.. \ /Olr. Millar said that the- -old road } would be sold to: adjoining owners,: and, 1 the proceeds handed 'to .tho 'local bodies •" i n which the ,lands .were, situated. ■ • : Resuming/Mr.. Millar said that: from • the outset a separate, account had been : kept, as' : :between;/ the expenditure .'on, the and that on the.road. .A. '• ■Mr.. Luke: Well, tho road should not cost the local' bodies:£100,000. // ■ Mr. Millar replied that it was easy to find fault whe'ii a work had been done. The road .had been so well made' ■ that if-it iwVre/well. looked, after tho, '' cost of upkeep, would .be small. Tho- . larger portion' of the reclamation—viz;, that at. the provevery. valuable. .

- Mr. '.Luko: .What- ab.out. the proceeds frbm-the .sale": of reclaimed land? Mr.■ Millar:./They ■ would.;go. towards the cost'oi' tho railway/works alone. Mr. AVright: "What about tho old road? . ■ Mr. Millar: The ; proceeds will, bo 'divided.' atnoug tho 'local, bodies concerned. :■ f " • Mr. T. K. Taylor: What will you get for tho rcciaimcd land? '-./ ■ • '

■ Disposition of Surplus Lands. Mr. Millar::I/propose/to ask for -the power to le a $ eors e 11" the surplus lands, for ;'a ■ .much ■ larger ' amount-. of-revenue 'could,' be ■ obtained -if the lands'' were -leased,, under.' tho systeur of/ leasing' in, vogue in this 1 town. There wore some parts/ wliieh might be/ sold at ;once.-, It would not; do to. soll all tho land, for in - ten . years' /time,'. some 'of it might have been nceded','for.railvFay.'pu'rp6se3; : Ho added thatmost :of/the . work - was /done: by day labour. '' ■ - (Mr 1/LukeWill/you' lease/with .water-' frontago rights ?'fe/- : -» fa: . '!/////'•/ ! :" No }'/be'causer.tka'-- railway goes./riglit/out t6.'.tlie/.water's, edge.;/. • ' Mr. ■ Davoy: - Was - not, somo ot .atho work done by contract? / •Mr. Millar:'.Tho-cartage.. ■

:/ ; : wished the^'Minister /to'j'say ,bow:;.it, wa's/'that: the'/estimater:^d//;b^n',, so/'greatly exceeded.V To' ;his;min,d; some/of/tlie', money Iliad/beeii/ Zexpendedif inZanCextrayagant. manner.."-He;had seen-.-'the workers mbyihg ; was; a iorude/method: of-'.handling, such, material.. that t-lie /original ;estimate /for/the xaiilway works /was: ; '£lbo,opo/'';'/3Meriy% bodies; .wanted a/.i'bad,;66ft./>wide.Z/,-That meant' that the reclamation - was'forced out, into 30ft. of instead of lift. In this /way',the'co'st'--of; the viVork,; was greatly /estimatp-tor' .the/Tail-' /wayZ;and:.,road .was, £181,000, which ap-. peared as' if ( bf. 'tlieZroad. / w'as: why., the Zmeifcifiad/ To-\\sliift:Z/6om©" : o /stones: :by/.handiwas.-:,that.Ztheyj.were./.too .large; itb;.beVshp^ellS; ; and. not/large//'enough : ;t^/,lieiv.braiiqa.^/Z. ! i;Z/^;Z"/^':^k'Z?Z:':/.' /// Check Against: Extravagance UrgedA

/.; Mr. T;North) ' declared ; that, 'keans -Sfiouli? be. designed tb^^/give/l J arliamehtVoh'' : effMti^ on its public stervanta.' He Was m favour of - co-operativo labour, . but considered that v-'it v. should' be-:,ca rricd .'out', fairly • both/to''^the^V'workers?and;'jthe Goveriir :mbut:iZ:Hev.hMv/inZ.hisv::pbssessipri//thG official'^.'returrif6f ; V.the''earnings 'of. the. /ph,l/the./Midland., found-; othatf;soino/'' maiTiefl. Zmen' r eame'd' /235? /-peiv week-'.duriiig' "one. /monitevil/vMprK/Mlian^liat^^^^^ that > theyi;.could -~eariiViiid ■ thoy'..were , j .-/Anj)'"tlicr. : / set; /of ' When. •. beeii/sent/on to- the . workers' wives , there wiis not These men, had been paid at-the l rata of Is. 6d. per cubic -yard for cutting through .'boulders',' : shingle, rock. .il?idX^^ni?living-'-)fai-a V inisera bleZ'pittance, ytiie/Zworkers oii "the Hutt/Road/-were paid/at, fbiir times the. rate.' '' ' . 'vZ-' j-.

:/../Mf.; worked? /•• • //■■!//■'•//:/.;. / /:,/;,- ;| ', Mr.\ Taylor -wentv on-'to' -say that in -thff ; 481'. hours, between: -Marchl;,7 : :/to/jApnl///si.' \ Four' others worked 616 hours"betwecn Feb-' ruary. ,7 and March"s. - In another instance. seven . meii J. Worked..' 854 hours between . April'. 4/and April- 30. Thewages earned per worker/in; the- last. two insfences-avera'ged;bhly ; .;nihep.ence' per hour!. The had no rijrjit to;- /spend .millionsof /-money., either through . thG,,./R.aihy,ay v ;./Dppartment / or 't'hpf Public/-Works; •'Departraent : in.- the dark. .; How were they to ' know - that tlie, publip 'officers ..werei,' carrying/.out .their/duties''/properly-/;jn/'this/:regardp : : The margin'of error in the case of tho Hutt - Road .was enormous. 1 '-.It was originally given out., that- .the road would cosf £84,000, but it was now -'stayd-. : that : /i£'-;wbiila/cbstVi£'lbb J pOp;'' , ''.-i!'. :WHat/. was the/•' cause? Therewas /trbjibleZ/byerZ, getting , , the /stone -,at M .mately to -be - got: from:'Paekakariki. -' Many.?Errors ! >Never'':Dlsoloseii. 1 v 'Mri -Taylor./(continuing)' - said' that in all cases there should, be 'festimates : as well -as;.-specifications. ' / (Hear, hear.) If/tjiat /.were/done .there .would bo: an opportunity'■' for, criticism on the ' Work which_ ;.would .vbe, an. effective means of .checking 'waste.^.Z/Mariy,'; aiid many /a /large.V.errbr.lliacl'' Tieeii -;itiaiJe by. public ofTicials" . /wero. . .covered, -up rather thaii bring about . a scandal. There should therefore be a system under .be: disclosed. to .-ParliimenfY'/who'ther the/officials liked it .'or not. it;/If an engineer/to a private firm ; made a : .iniitako Zof 10 . per cent.i on/ayiob of; £100,000 he/woiild be fired.'.out straight awiiy. No firm could, escape! the bankruptcy court if it made/'mistekes/bfjthat/nature; . Not one/'private contract out ;'o'f twenty pro-, vided more, than 10 per. cent, of' net profit. • He was, as lie had said, in favour- .of coZoporative' labour,'; but'' he, wanted 1 to. see the works carried out properly. '

;'' Mr. Stallw.orthy (Kaipara) declared that there was no use wasting further timo oil the debate, as that would only add,to the cost of the work which'had' to be completed.'.. ..'•: , . : / Mr.- Herdman.:' (Wellington . North) said thei Wellington; members - were not opposed to the construction of the'road in the first place. • Everybody had recognised/that 'the work'; was., highly.dc•sirable,:.The/point.;was; that; the liability'l of 'tlio local bodies', had. not been defined in the first instance. : No definite agreement had been 'made, and .tlio Bill had been passed in a clumsy way without any understanding : being come' to with the local bodies' concerned. A; member. had, every right ,to complain of : the way. the .■ work, had - been carried out, and. t<j • aßk • for details. It made his blood boil to hear members talk in the way that Mr.. Stallworthy . had done. It- was members of: that type/that', sat: in/their.'.setits ahd -allowed -votes' to' bb passed, without any .criticism at all.: '• Public Works Board Urged. ; As-regards /the ' remarks made ; by. :Mr/.' Taylor, - continued Mr. Herd-' man,_ lie ' would like to • say .that lie did not-soo how it would be possible, to pro/ quo for' tho .money- of the State...without 'a 'Public ■Works Board, >similar' ; to- T 'that' which they had at Home. .• That board 'was the.'creation\ of ; Mr./ 'liloyd-Georgo, about whom ■ some were in the habit, of: speaking .Vin/// ; praisGworthy .terms./: The duty of that, board was to investigate every application for expenditure on public..works, and before the expenditure took placo, every detail of the' work was considered. Tho whole question was ■ studied before the board

made their report, and tho money was expended. If thero had been such a board in New Zealand there would not, for instance, have been the great .waste in rogard.to the new vice-regal residence. Ton thousand pounds, would never have been ■paid for land valued at only six. thousand pounds. Hon. T. Mackenzie: That has been disproved. :•

Mr. Herdman: Nothing of the sort. ■Mr. Laurenson' .(Lyttelton) referred to what, ho .ternipd the unprovoked ' and unwarranted attack .by Mr. Herdnian on the member for Kaip'ara, and went on to defend tho conscientious .work dono by Mr. Stallwortliy. ;He (the speaker) _ thought Wellington, and ' the surrounding districts were not contributing enough to the work. Money was poured out on this city, and* what thanks did ■ they. get?. He tliouglit. it was time''the capital; was shifted , from Wellington, aiid h6 could say that-there was ' a majority in : ' the' House in 'favour of shifting tlie capital. ■'~/ /-. .. 'Mr. Herdman: "You.will/be shifted from Parliament before that." (Laughtei'.) ' '■ /' / / //■."/.

/ ..ur. Latirenson: "Before I go I will shift', the : capital / from Wellington.'' (Renewed laughter.) //-•' :■' % 1 , . Mr. Stallivorthy. (Kaipara); said the remarks made by Mr; Herdman did not trouble him. Jn fact, lio was glad of them, because they had! brought forth the. siricero remarks . from j Mr. Laurenson. ..If ho was praised by: such a man as Mr. Herdman hoiwould feel ashamed of ; himself. Ho, had ho 'regret for; the, statements ho had'/ .made,.- and he thought it was a/ pity, tho time 1 , of; the' House had been,'.taken up in anticipating a dispute' which' would arise between; the local bodies, around Welling.ton and the Government. H« could "defend himself, against such,: a man; as Mr. Herdman. . .. /••:•'' _ . . Mr.. Wright (Wellington South) '..said, the money /spent. on Wellington' "was spent. to . carry ' on' the' Government's own business.'.--Wellington city ..never asked the Government; for..money.

,; Mr.. Ell/ What about -the new',railway station? -- .v, / Mr.. Poole ./(Auckland^VWest) - tboughfe the:-railway. ,was.--' one/ huiidred ;,;years', ahead of its time/". There were .numerous back-block lines • which- should have ..been .constructed with the irioney./ The local bodies i cpticer'ned should 'face the music, and bear their liability. ; ; Mr. Hogg (Masterton) said the work had been, costly,-''but. : .when they.' took into.; consideration;, the' character '.-of, the work,' he thought a, very .good' account had been returned; £100,000 .' was rot too '/much'for, / .Wellington / arid/ suburbs to contribute to such a .work. . , ; An Amendment. . . At; this; stage.' the Hon. /J'. ■ A. " Millar moved an.amendment to. the'effect,that the/ Government might,/dispose /"of , 'all surplus 'reclaimed.'lands by Jease, .'.'otj as was L already, . provided ~ by/ , statute,, .by salo. '. " I '' ... ■' ; -Mr. .Massey; said ,'that. the .whole .history of /the; work- had teen., a history of'surprises.V Originally, it. was/stated 'that the-reclaimed lands would, be sold. Now it. was proposed-that they might, .be, /.Government -'should' adhere 'to .'the' original.: proposal, viz!, that the cost of the. work sliould .be met 'by/the proceeds from 'the sale of tlie 'land.; /There .Was' no : doubt but' that the lands would -sell, well., for .the' pur:p'oses tifz/warehouse/sitesi' He' did not. say ■ that the lands . should ■ Jbe' rushed on;;to the':market;TKey should;'bo,, disposed of '..whenever, fair values wero ob,tamable;;-'- /''l': ■: . The Hon. J.- A. Millar said that under. ithe..'Act^'• /asVi'it. stood all - the ' re- ! claimed .land- Had to • be. sold.. If - an- 1 ,other, siding' 'line' "to'; '.'Kaiwarra/ : was wanted; it- would. ineani that some of/tho' iland/ woujd//havei.'to be, Z repiircliased., :The} position .'would' be; that -if the land;was all sold, and .the/Government had to make/repurchases it/ihighli/have/to pay. 'fpr/Vhole/blpckS'.of. .warehoiises. .'. ; ~! /. -llj'..-Massey;:;:But 'that.avbiild/be the. ' case if tho lands' were leased. 'Z : \> . Mr.. Millar (continuing) "said ■ that he :was ■ prepared./to. sell;; at. once', all the land which: was not needed for railway purposes. ' ' .. ; Mr. Massey: Will you put that on' /record?'./■:Z' : ::;:Zv, / : 'Z ZZZ/^//, Mr.. Millar: I am referring to those :piecos' alongside the road which will never be, required by tho Railway Department.-' .'-// .- '.Z/::/./ Mr. Massey's Views. ,;Mr. s Massejv ,'in'/th3; : course of. .further remarks,/stated that. lie. did , hot- favour: tlie sale' of . one, inch'-'pf/land'.which .Would. b^,.neededifor./railway,/ : purposes:.:.''':sl , he'.' position'; was, hoiVevor,/ that Parliament shbiild/keep',faith with;its. promise. / In' the/ old Act/there, was .proyision- for' the, Government to reserve ~any. land' which/ -was- for; .railways,; roads, /and; streets./'./There' would/be. no^'/'objection to tKe. proppsal if. the^Minister/madp/it clear' that , all; .lands * not. so required should be sold. ■//-,.' ./ '.

. The Hon. J,. A. Millar contended that he had .no. desire to ' repudiate' /' the prorriise that, : had' been : made. ,/ If " the sold -at. once>'it\' would'/not: recoup tho cost of ' the work. ■ The better plan would bo to hold on to tlie" land until there was an opportunity to get. a much higher;'-'. price./ Even .at present 'he', could ' withhold-the whole "of/ the larids;fpr. railway: purposes.: He did .not (want/to get out of . his promise to 'sell; the /. surplus lands when . the tiljie. cariie! :, He;■ wisiied' to move a,' further, proviso. also: "Provided : the power of' lease' shall only - apply to' suohland as. may be declared,.necessary for railway purposes." / -~. .. ■ ; ..

Mr. Laureuso'n; (Lytteltbu). declared, in ' replyVto an interjection,' that there Avas too much in:different, quarters of the House. Such a proviso would lead to the splitting up of tho Parliamentary, institutions.>, ; The ' effect' of introducing, a clause, of the kind' woiild bo to ' set ; the, whole; House in" a blaze. It was, an clause. - If ever ;he expected; sympathy with his desire :to savef' the . national ■ .lands, : :he : expected ityfrom,;,the:Minister-for'Rail-ways.'.'.- Apropos of.. the . clause, Mr. Laurenson, recalled' tlfat.. some years, ago the Government could ' have acquired the Miramar estate for £50 an acre. Now,.it, l .was: ; worth' twenty times that amount., . Mr.: Massey knew who had prevented" that, but as' it was - old history, ho would not go into it.- In atfempting :to insert .the , proviso, tho v Minister h'aye - been advised, not by his friends but' liis enemies, and the enemies .of every \\man, woman, and child in the country. /'• Contentious Proviso withdrawn. Mr.; Millar: AYell, I .said 'that I would be r no . party to allowing the local bodies, to repudiate: their liability, and I will '.be. no party .to 4he -repudiation of the agreement made by- Parliament in this matter; ; so l will ask; leayb jto'.withdraw iny proposal. . •" ' ."•• The Bill therefore: passed 'through Committee without'amendment. •