THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 923, 16 September 1910, Page 7

THE HOUSE.

, ' OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM. . After;. The.''Doiiinion went to . press 'Amind- •' "imont < Bill ;wos .further considered in ■ : vj Committee;, i; '. ;V : 7;, Strong bbjectionwas:taken'; by ; members: : both .ades;to the proposal ill- Clause .3, ; .. -.'// that 'members :df;.e'ducatioh: jboiirds ■should C./' aS '- regardsexpenses ;"treasonably-; incurred-andv actually:: paid < by' . "them' in going: to or returning from any r v -of; tho board, ; or; iii making; nay. '. offlMal viat'of'inspection. '■'ii iljr: .DIVE (Egmont). proposed that the :'iiTr6rds.'''"and::actually ipaid V:"should -,be Tho Hon. G. FOWLDS hinted that cMes' .were, known, ,biit,de-cb*hed<-to'be fodtcc.hi'sed.' on"<the :poiht.''; : r '•'• -.Mr.'". MASSEX."-• aiid several .' other members contended that members ot all the boards would feel that . avstigrfla: . rested'upon them in the -nlatier. :<•' The MINISTER said he , had not complained -.that,-arty individual'- member-; of ■ a 'board hadovercharged. "..: ■ ; At. this'stage, 3 aim,, it was decided, -i on;;the; motion of Mr. i'owlds. V to■■ report. ' progress.. ' •• .' " : v\ ;-r '■V:'- '.When,./the",House, .resumed;!its \ sittings: ' ■ : 'yester()ay [ .:'afternoon, ..the . analysis of, the Bill again , dragged along '.very,wearily.><:*:•' Mr. HAN AN: (Inrercargill) declared r, ~ that? there'' had .'been■: instances -of abuses, and. he. would, th erefore :like:.'to. : see; pre- • pared a return showing the amounts in- :. y, v curred>, arid the' ; amounts ■ received by' J . members of iboards, -v -;v

. .The amendment proposed by .Mr.'.Dive was rejected by 34 votes to 24. . . • Upon'the-motion of the; Minister it /i.j-'..; wa3.Cagrerf:-' l that;>members r :;Sridihg: ; 1 ;'or ■ driving tohidings 1 , sTiould;'.;>receive::-an' . ; .■ i ■■■:..mileage:.;to.;.be''counted.^ . Question of Compulsory Attendance. In regard to Clause. 7, which provides '..for: the,: medical,;aiid physical inspection : of? school children, (ho Hon. -. G. Fowlds: - .'- Said ; that "it ' was . intended '.tiiat-'.- -the ■ .; teachers, should be. instructed : at. training ' - Wfses;.'- so that they could find ;; out v . defew.'in- tho children,-such :as. deafness,-■ ' ' ■ throat' diseases, adenoids, etc. - ; a : goodfdeal. of discussion. - r i t ' j ' Reference to' Clause jB/ which. states that a child shall be: required to attend school on. all sohool days. : : ' ! Mr.,HO6G (Masterton) : argued that the :■■■■; clause, to the,effect that children' might absent themselves: from; 10. per. .- :dut. -of the time-when the schools' were v, jipeh was a. great blemish in the'existing . !aw. ' i : JkMr. MASSEY, hoped that the Govern-' liient; wolild pause .before it pressed this • fclauio, as it ; was , bound' to be the forefuniier of a 'lot - of. r trouble,'.* especially , ,:;-lh: the:. l case of largo, families.''. - \Mr. ItUSSKLI, (Avoii) ; said' that the' ' - a brutal : want -of- con,V' liderationC'of iiiany' of. the poorer people, - who at times required Itheir elder, children . to-Vloolc after." the younger ones. The MINISTER" replied that" more , latitude. was allowed in'this regard; in' -New. Zealand, than in any .pther country. In: many districts there, had grown up a system under ■ which . children ; wei'o : kepi . away from school: one day a week. V Mr. .- WKTGIIT . (Wellington South) suggested that -the. ..Committee '. should' patisp before they carried the clause as it how stood. , .. Mr. PEArCE (Patea) moved'an amende ment. providing-.that, the. clause should inl}" apply to schools in boroughs. - He ■ pointed, out-(hat a country boy required to; learn agricultural work from a very - . - early age. Even-if -he were iined £1 a - day he -would- continue to. keep his' sons ■ , away-, from .school ..when necessary, in : order that they -should have an agricultural education. • "Theorists and Dreamers." ' .-■'Mr.; HERDMAN (Welliagton. North) ' .' thought it was time- the direction of thu "Department should be placed in the hands of practical, men, instead of in tho hands of; theorists -and." dreamers. -> Beyond nil ... question the clause would tend to interfere with the. industrial; development of the country and the domestic rights of the individual. • He. hoped the Minister would see. the .advisablencss of withdr,awing the.clause, - ' .- . ;-,

Tho Hon. G. FOWLDS said that tne claiiso could not interfere with tlio industrial development of tho country; There was a unanimous wish on the part of,tho boards that the clause should bo passed. The Hon. T. Y. Duncan: 1 don't believe it. .'•■ Mr. ' BUIClv: (Pnlmcrstpu ; North) thought it was tho most absu rd. Clause ho .had ever seen proposed to be placed on ;tho- Statute-book. - 116 .hoped the Minister would withdraw it. .. Mr. M'LABEN (Wellington East} said the'.purpose 'of tho Act .was to see that tho.wholo of tho.children/of the country got. the best" education possible. (Hear, hear.) We should fix a definite rule that attondanco should bo for five, days, and meet' any .special cases of. - distress by enactment,. . : Mr. T." JO. ■; TAYLOIJ (Christchurch' North) remarked that it was moro im-. portant that the principle of compulsion should bo ■ applied in regard to 'education than it was in.regard to' defence.' Mr. PPAIICE withdrew his amendment in ' the hope that;, tho whole clause .would: be wiped out. • On/a/'division, the clause was retained by 31) votes to 28. .. . Duration of Compulsory Attendance. Beferring to'the proposal that children should continue at school until' they aro .14 years of age; the Hon;- G. : Fowlds; said there was -no reason why we should worn children Under 14-years of; age. Ho; believed tho school age.;'was being geheially ''raised all round.

Mr. MASSEY, did not'think'the Minister. had made' out a very /good/case / for this .clause. In many cases a boy: would learn moro. on tho farm'than he would at school after he had passed the sixth standard. If these clauses .went /through thero: would 'bo serious trouble., Mr. HARDY .(Selwyn) .■!thought <a child should.even,. stop a;,second year after ■passing. the.:sixth ■"standard.' ■■■' . Air. BUCHANAN,:.(Wairarapa) pointed to entailed on country children, ';•■ The' Minister, no doubt, meant well, ,butsomehow or other Ministers who wcro in charge of Billg to havo ioiho them, .and,could.- not; exercise their ■ own discretion.' He 'thoughr. .Mr. MaES6.v_.was on- the right lines. Tho .Ministeir -was ; hot: listening' to, the .dictates,; of his'owri;/'comm'on sense; -in this matter, ,aiid • he'. would . recognise.' this if he wonld take time to think, it : over.: ,' Faddism Run Mad. .. Mr, BCSSELL (Avorij/sai'd that- in this Bill - there ; .was ; faddism run- mad ■■ in:; its wildest state.. A boy should be i'ablo; to. : go;- to.;, work when ■he :hnd . complied. with: the /regulations, /and not ■: stay. /•; marking time after passing .: the sixth:.' standard; Legislation such as' proposed .was undue, interfes'onee' with many a home... The ■seventh standard:was. a, delusion and :a -snare; -and. only,/meant .marking .time. -He' hoped -the- Houm . would'extinguish'''this obnoxious clause. - ' '.V'■■■ (Tho; MINISTER'took 1 ;' exception."to..''/the': references, to faddism,'but. he knew they were/not directed; at him-personally. •;/A. conference; 'ftf :.Education Boards oftlie Dominion had discussed: this .'matter re'-' .e'ently,: and;,they,'-he ibelioyedi'i aslced that the age should; ba raised to i 17. When a/Minister gave .'effect to the opinion., of ■the assembled : wisdom .oi New-Zealand educationists it was called faddism.

Is the Sixth Standard Sufficient? , ■' • . TIIO Ilon.-.T. Y. .DUNCAN".'(Oamarn) said :it; Was all . : very well .to say they- had passed .this law' in Scotland. They were .slower in Scotland than, we in 'New 'Ze'a.land;: '(Lftilglitef.) -He did not' think..'the. children should he" coxripellod. to':stay; at school up to'l4 if they had. passed' the Sixth Standard. / ' ,v : "AV--' •Mr. TORBHS (HurUnui) did not think ! a boy . would' learn : 'anTthing after s passing' the'-Sixth 'Stdhdara;--He would.vote against the clause. ' •--Mr;- STALEWORTHY did not think a boy learned anything when he': stayed 'oil. in the Seventh . Standard. ■('■■■ WITTY- (Riccarton) . was -i- against. th&.'clause which' -n-asiVsinfplybkoepiiigfsthe bright child back 1 for tho dull. lie did not know that',, ..we were not going 'in for too much-useless, cram. :Mr.'-HANANi(lnvercargill)-: ;said the boys were not■ getting so,good a.ground--ing.'.to-day'as;, they, were: some,, years .ago. ; It ;'was' important.. that children should remain"' as jtSng as- possible: att the. .primary Even Japan :Nvas.realisinK that could-, not be : too: educated,' and, wo ■: should' not lag behind Japan. " '- i-/.-.'-;-•'.- ' ■ .:■ v ; Therllovisei divided :• on cthe question that, the' clause, stand'.'part'.of ;; the; 1 , Bill, - the' voting being, -Ayes, 37; Noes, • 33. • ■,: The Continuation Classes Scheme.

' Some', opposition''Vas shown .to- Clause., 17: which: provides .that; education boards may-""males.--regulation's: .requiring attendance :v(it' 'continuation - -arid . technical • -•'•Mi;i'--JifAtC6L]^''-.(Ciut'liia)':oppbsed'v , 'tho' clause strongly, -■/ : ■; , Mr.vALLEN .(Bruce): was in favour of tho'eontihuatidn classes, 'but he thought' they :should be permissive instead pf compulsory. ;■ Ho. .moved ■ an-. amendment. to 'thiS ' 1 \ • 1 -'■'•Mr;' G.'M. THOMSON (Dunedin. North) .'thoughtXtlie,-"school: committees: should be given-power to enforce attendance;. : Mr. T. E- TAYLOR (Chnstchurch North) supported . the principle yof .tho clause; . The. ordinary child-was- not really ready to bo educated until it had: passed the. Fifth or. Sixth Standard. .. He thought, that the■ .''Education Board , "should: have, the* same power 'as : the"'school-committees. .:,Mr.:;RHSSELL (Avon) thought the mat-' ter should .W left, in:,the • permissive form' ■for ;v a ! year at:;leasts ;- r The MINISTER thought the .issue wasclear, cut in the Amendment, of the member for Bruce. • • ■ VOn". a . division.-the Amendment -moven by 'Mr.; Allen was" lost by 35" to - 2S. •-.

A Scholarships Matter. > :i TheHoh. ; A. : .B. ,: GUINNESS (Grey) moved an amendment;to' the.existing ; law to the: effect that '• all; school 'children.- of,, school age should-b'e, allowed, to .compete for: all scholarships; established, by:> board. He argued that, it: lv ould. be ■ a good. thing' to do .away with, (.he distinction '.in that, regard "betweenv pupils -attending . private and public .schools; ."If it wero right for sc'me boards vttfc'make''. the:' provision; he .suggwted the; provision be made compulsory. • .-■■:■';... ; Mr; ALLEN (Bruce): said, that as ,- far as 'he -.could '-gather . the. amendment pro-. ■posed to-take away, the discretion theboards'.now had in.the matter.".. He did hot know ; that it was .wise,,to : take away' this 'discretion, : If no discretion,were left it was quite: possible that the. whole of the would be, scooped up by private schools attended by the children of'tolerably well-to-do, people.' ■: The Hon: 'Mr. FQAVLDS said'the -pro-posal-meant applying the .same principle to" , the Education Board" scholarships as obtained -in regard to'. National scholarships. . He did .not. object, to the 'proposal, and at his-instance.it was decided to add to- the clause that all candidates must have resided in the Dominion for three years "prior to , the examination. ..

■ TOBACCO AMENDMENT BILL. : The Tobacco Amendment Bill; was put through: the Committee-stage with, a slight amendment.'. . The house at -this stage (1.50, a.m.) adjourned. . •; -