STARTLING ALLEGATIONS.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 918, 10 September 1910, Page 6

STARTLING ALLEGATIONS.

THE TAX DEPARtMENT. , 'HOT DEBATE ON THE ESTIiATES. SCATHING CRITICISE HOKE ABOUT : RETREM!ENT. ' " THE DOMINION" BOYCOTT/

:?■;&'; Opening Jt'he-debate ;ih;;the;'House : of ;x: ;-last;night,'"in;"regard' ;'SM/Mr.'vHasseyi;;Leader:; of-- the;.opposi-; ;:'; ; s:tioprSaid-;he;;tho'ught;;thatVtho'; House; f : -'.;- should-.' Kb - given;- further ~j detail's' as to "•■•'the,supposed: retrenchment , and:.: the S;; alleged;:irregularities..';in'v; the";;; Taxes; '-.y;, Department: - : ;As- regards, •■thbi'refoenchv figures'.'did not ■-'---■ bear; out Vthe ; 'Primeft ;Minister's:;;;cbn':;';;Mention ; a;saving -of v,£3oo,ooo ( ;haoV ' .-^beoh"effected.;-^ln;the':'days.:when' "roV '..-X trenclimeiitwas'cafned'outjh Sir Harry. ?B:!^kinsbn's : ;te\nh;df ;;office;::;alI ; .;; details -'; •■: were!', givcn.'.;,;;lh- : ; connection :,with-, the S V;Taxfes;;: Department -; matter,,/, ; ;it',' -' ; was' ,-;.-K; were i: :■;■>. ; concoriicd ; in; '.the \ Baino ilway';asf 'd; finh' vfagainst'Wluch'; : 'V%:,Tn^ - -;; Been .able''to.' bring /sufficient; political •;-;, i pressure; :them%'';to;' :j-J"-J escape; "and - ;: ■ v had - been-, mentioned -j. and '.members; of i:'-;;Parhament: : ;w6fe. ; conhected;with:;the'm^

Now ho asked tlijo Prime Minister to ,give the House some information as to the Teport of the judges who held the inquiry in regard to the Taxes Department. He did not ask for names at all. ' The House was entitled to be supplied with some information as to tho finding!

;((:(;;<)f':/the::;judgeß.]:;('.T^ :<(';(;&( kind]pf,^ ];:v] y in; and -like;; mguiries of tlie(kin<T ;■>::* it;'.-was^]iiM^ inquiry]!; by;(a;;]comi'qissi6ri':bf '-three' £ "((J public .ofßtersTraU'^'gopdv^ihonf^aiidi'the: iS/.j'PrimelMhister./afo i{S;iiTepori;:to'Sb6tila'id;*6n /the: table.''.'- Sinne: ]] (] Vvihen ('.understand' % i4^hat ; ;'it^was(/pnlyga '.^mall,;^part : ; of: the] ?;In':fegard:]tb j' baspis; of •(charges* £'.!;:;; which\ (were : ; -hqtJp^ ;y';:s;Mink-'.^6 v to .know' :]/. v (: ; :]any]tliing.-:;;:Hb;;^ v;/]-y(lprnied];bn:: good/: ito

\I 'i : : i were] cases]: iriquir ed ;;intb](where j ; p ffioers, :i : ];fin:;thb]];Taxes]];/ Department : v ]ha'd'(;]been;; (j.-S./'iound-guilty/bf-irreg'^ ;J(;;; : :]was -Jof/them.'/mV the'.report! ;]]-;;;('brbught]]dpwh.;]/(v;/;/; : (i;/;i;:^ (S,: : ' ; (:';{Sir-/JOseph::( Depart' g'-;]-Vmeht;?]]F;S/T^ ];?;:?:(« Mr;// Massey:: :YesV ■ .at/ 1 that; time; -] ■'■.-,. si-{£?. . ](Mr.(j ; Masseyi said;];]tn"ere <,-.(■ ]]]v had; i been i'delay;: in': fu'rhishihg '"{(•■ retufhs; '^-:;(;Did^'the; : Prime 1 ]that ; ; ]i r^ i;Parliament(wpnld be;;satisfied;.with',s'uch! '*f?^£': f s%vsZ : ffs}-ifa'% ■X o (((]Sif -*? Jpseph] (Ward; (] hi/] reply,:] said' Jhe^ -7:/;J(:Wp]uldj]giyP:]th^ ]<;/];Keht]^bpartmeritsp;;b'ut^'^ (i: ; .iV' feXgiye:( ; ha,ines ■ .'"of who (through] :?■-■£. iio, /fault rof (their:-owhA liad( ; been- -h rpi'' /:{/((;irenched;Cs;;o/^ '(;:;: : /(:((MrCMassey :]Wili;ybu]givo the'names' -'/■( ;;■/■: iof;,thpse. taken] on'?: (/.:/;.:,; /((/;'//: ;::];;:/./.('■ -Ji^-( : ; ; 'i\^.V-]Detajrs^ %> i?i3 Sir^-Joseph.'/ Ward ('said tit (was/ not ..to; ;(:.>, ;](bp;:BupposedJthat(:Tyhei th<i:/country]<re^ /(](]*'<^re]d r .'aft«r]] : a, i (-p^fibd)]^ ]:.f/;;ne^- v bfficMs\]were;:nbt;:to; ; ;b^:takeh;bn:d v(:;f-He,;gaye/i^ri»yingB/in''varibus':Depart:i -;.;/%/;]wents/ v a«::&llow /(./vV(; ''::];' : ; £■£&'.;:: :*(:;( §/:/(/^V^ r /'S-- ; j li I: r : :i l^artien-t^:(-W-^ai'M i ; : :■ o,g*v! g ; %> Ki^/^(y^;.V;'rW:; ; i^;:;w|g-v,:;:i-B.g : !:r/o5'?^ f;; ; ;'^S^:vV^vJ ; : i :;:;/:-:v;:x(:.(;^^;. ! ;;:v;^•':]:::.(^•No;.. //-^(MaTine;::-:;;; 1 - ( ;'B, ;/-;Vv,-House]/of :J) .f (t ;/V •!-;(::?:••■■: (s£!& i -"tttiVe's;y, , '»-j.^ ; ?i-;:;v Government'; '^Dfe; 1 ]:-//;;;':;/-;:-^:;;::;:';/.';-'/: ■; Trust- •;;'«:;■.•;']" (nil; >": iftnil-V'-'v-;' : nil -:,;;; (Statej-Kre]:-Insur^'v(s;;r]i,(/:i;':; , ; S^/S-'ahce/ft-:. 1 (nil "i"; 1,015 ; ;;:( nil :i;('.-i / '-;-ydna^iodfe'';.'. > ;.v;i-:j;;-':4;60o.;. ; y :.;'.'-.'• >StaJv>/, ;;;GuarahteeV,//v: : ]:- Hi -.ffi:?* • lv' ; ,,- ;i /;':;;; ;%;;Aayahces-'/;'«..:(;. 'S : ' : hil-';>(: ! 8I)2:;';-((■■:]•■'9,. ; : -v(V;;''lnternaliiiff«irs((>;-.'p;):ml ; -:t :;;; " ; Ministers'^.:: secret: p -/::: - S;]- ' 'tf (-,:;.;, f '; V;' ;,// Vf ; ;vftVMeKerige'rs^ ; '-;.-;/ •:•:■ -fice'/keepers '':.£?>■'■'' !l96 X" ;t ' nil 3 -':, ; : 4 ]:;;;]]^Audit/':.'^;^;.;;:;;::::(;;l,597/'(:]:Vv'ndl;; ; /(/:-7: '.'^■-^l^istrar-GPneral;;-;' 1 ■;( ;v( : •;V-'and-Electoralf;.; : ';,(l,s77](o,;',nil:/(:].;.''■''■ 5 v- :.<•' ■;.(:,("(-:-;: >-■:■';:(/;('; : v; -:- Office]^.;;..;;;i ! 'v:-;nU./]:T::;;nil:v; : ; , ;nil; ; ; ;/ -(- : nil :/ A;;.:'Advertising : Depart-;i( r ; <¥'. 'K/v':;//: 05 '■'■'■& "];:(- :meht'v;;i;;::u..:...];:;/-]3B0 i ;; ! ',;(nii(((; /nil ';;■ Xaboratbries';;;;;;.;'- ; : 940/;';;;' ;nU :,]■/; ' 1 (^';(P:rinting';;;and:;'rta-;v;/:;/v;::(/,:;/.!/:,] :]:(/,:: - v .' ra5:;(:';::ml':::;/ '-~3 /.".Mental/. Hospitals.-:.-: (nil/'(/'nil '■..;,nil ;:'■-■ -.- /•; '■' : '< table?Aid\;: : -arida-,('y - ;';- ;1 -."(;'. -./;"-:'; -;■". (/ ;Publio.: ; -Health::(.' ; ;'l6,277'> -:'( nH]/;],.40 ■:(<-■:■',((;:-■]■;;],-';:.;:: ;(//'/:./misoella'heoilsserr.-.i;.];/?'/"'-;,]■:#.-:]•••'-';.:■;-: ; :]((;;-,':.;•■. vices j '^''^.i.^iiu^. nil.-/,; * /nil / (/(• nil :, Income'-''v' : ; '.;.r>'..';'",, ■..'('(//"' :••■: ;;;;:';; .Tax : .:^..:.-::i;.;.',;(:3:484 3;/8,500: ; ". .19 ,/-:;(vCbuncil ; of :Befenc'e , v.:. 665 /.('//nil; ;'■■;-' (6 :■- : Public ,Works and; '- './.'.^rli.--;-.;:"/".:.:■:-(''-.:■, "- '.).;•]',.Mvne5:;^;;..;„:..;;.;(,34,647 ; '156 ;:->,:.;. Justice ; nil':;;'- nil ('".-(:/Agriculture]i(/;..(*:.;:>33,705 '■'-•■ -1,230 ;' - ;.60 :.-:( Native;Affairs'..'.;V: -2,500,:'(l;058:',":■(- '(10 :'- (Buucation' ./. 3 ' •-.Land;and;Survej'.";'-3,112':;.- 8,474 \ 41 123,175 i 76,000 ;;>:600; ')'•'-■. :Post;-'''aid?/Tele-:'-:; : '; < -^J-;; ':■ '--' : /;*: ? :.' graphs'--;:■;-■• ~.r.., . '.':, : -:15,717-;■ ■:■</ (nil//■-.;•-' nil: '--■:■ ■-.- /Customsv/^;U...::;.rf.2,156'■;,;'"(ni1: : •:- -.--2 ■'-■".';■ (Labour ■■■ 2,016 •' <-;.\i nil:/}: Vi 15. /;;. ; :..:{rreasufy,-:./;..:..;.;;..;(,-1,665 ; t : -Vnil;,. -,(-(2: ''. ;(■'■;( >4-V] Street gossip (of: No; Consequence. ], -,-'/]( (Continuing, : :the;Pfimb;.sß :■' / that// that ./-was , tho-; total:/'savingj" and ,('. ~ later]he ;i wa's 'prepared; to.give; further' /'(informatipfi..,,He;had:already, furnished' ■'• information regarding '.iho irregularitios 11 in thel/Taxiug'Department,.What street ] : gossip" said; 1 was': of (no; conseqiiencpi (; If ;■/.'•'■ the (Loader of (the Opposition -had . in- .'.-. . formation;regarding'any member of the ] '.].House--:.]: '.;.;'(/,:.. : ' ; ?;;; ; ": '■ ;]■ -./;'' '.-■,■■.■ (:;;= ;'.:■] .;M]iv]Massey i.'/I.; said] member /of Par- - '((liament,..::/::(:-':; ■ ,;](•;■;]' ■ .-•.-' •.'■'. ;;':.- ; '''v]Sir. ! Joseph'-.'Ward'''said''']./he.'didi- not of (any.- case;'.: that (had been- . /brought under (the /notice , ; of ] the ./head the; Department"either during /Mr. .■';•■": Richardson's interregnum or while Mr., (Campbelljhad.jbeenin charge that had not been referred to the' Crown 'law ■■' officers.','-'-V-H']; there. .was'any'sug'gestion. ..thatahyperson/was doing ■ anything to the TaxingiDepartmentj(the officers had the fullest .(right to exerciso their au- ] ] thorityr could not place;tlio Judges' 'report before .the House, (nor;yet the • officers' report. (He had (received -a; ' communication' from the chairman of ,the,.commission;]stating that-namesand figures were in tho report which would not :have,.been used:had it been contemplated they would be made public. •'• He] was not going, to ,be guilty -of.. ~a. .fcrcach'of?trust"by disclosing-them. (; : Unnecessary Alarm Deprecated. ] Tlie Department was tho custodian of: tho business affairs of all kinds con-, nected with everybody,, who was a .tax-. ((-,-payer, aiid that (there.(had unfortun*

'ritely been irregularities was no .reason for starting :on ! a -course; which-would inculcate a feeling of; unrest and want of confidence such aa we had never yet experienced. If, the House' passed 1 a re-■ that; the ..papers bo laid on the 'table,':although; he did,' not approve of it; :he'would see'th'at,it was dono.: Per., sonally he' had. declined; to .see.the taxing ;papers .of-■ anybodyfin this country in hisyofficial"-capacity.; ;.' i . Ho thought; -that'that was the proper stand'to take. Howotddiiot be a party to mentioning ' the:busihess of anyone,- 1 either inside 01. outside; the House.;- jSo far as he knew no, political influence had ever been used in,connection with the Depaftmeiit. It ■ was; not;;triie; that ; ;more;than; two of-'■ , : fleers had been' guilty oi any;,offences: ': ; ;:Mr;'Massey;:,'-But were;they -'not; guilty' of other-.'offences '. those, of .*. which 'theVHouse "was^ihipriried?-,;/;.:,.!," v ; :v

;'-.Sir:. cases whichf.waf;rahted;.the Goyeriimenti:"; in;,'■■ relieving "them^of^theifyxiositiohs,-^!..'stated to;'the. Housed!-! ; knb'w:;of >■' X;" ; "

■;. Continuing-his.,remarks,'-Sir;,;J6seph /said that vnp.rfeporis^;'br v pai»'rs:':.were; ;being\, unduly^;delayed;' '^Tliis'''Govcrn■nient,; as*;a matter-.of /fact, had supplied 'more/;returns , than ;] any' other: ■] Go vent jmoht];/;]/;;'';^h/i':?/(.];(; •/.:;!;:/;/]' ;Vv • '■''■■'.■>( ; Why There'Be; AriyVMystory?.: :'said.the.House was obliged.to the Prime' far '.-.as! iß;vliad':^6iie.^i:/rhp]^cbuntry,;. however,' i iwas -' entitled, to/further;details! h'Sir (Jo; soph: Had': given, details;of.the/permanent' .and;^;temporary/];s]avingsi/ , ; It; was /easy. tp';;understahd'v what former;:'; but] ;]not&by/(the.ulatter.; './The nairies'oFthe officers';'.arid/their■ salaries ]a]i-any;;rate; ;tb'!thp ; . : .'p^Wib%Biwyicb'^'.'iiiripp^:■th'e;.; , scheme ibegai.'ghould^.bb'.'giveii.T'-^Ther'e-could :b]e- nbydisgraco :, published the■ 'been ;retfenßhedi' their oflScb* and: salary.,. : liV (New- South; Walfisythe.Railway..Depart-' ;ment ;'s'ubMtted! ! ;;am ias'/'.tb'Vall'. officers■■'.a.ppointed(:and:dis■missed.';.;JWhy,i.shoulrl Ahere beany mys-;.te^,;abput;.the-:mattor,in:; 'Zealand?, ;AsVreg'ard; against/a: ,Chrisfoh'urch(firnvhe;'\raiild'l!ke';tb know ; wh'y,; : .:th'ef^ ;years; /betweehithe ■'••. time';, when :(the;;'bf-: ; fences'/were : d,llegcd. tbHiave been;, com--;mitted/r;^rid;;;.the;;: ; initiatioh.: i :;6f;:'' court .proceedings/;/; ; ;i'Agaih']they '. had -a niys- ; ' f or. thp:''initiatipii : ;'; of Stlie'; proceedings; deserved; the( e^^ :knpw, had •takeniutito (cbhsideratib.ii]. :the/. .question .as to'whether it. (was (intended ]to'.,talie on; officers ;.whp;]bad';']bee]n'(/dismissed through :np:;.faull^ ,agaih',:: : H6;/wishe;d::!t6'-say-Va -few-words .'with'', reference;'to,;?tlie!!,'iie¥ '■' vice-regal, residence..:;Hevunderstood -.that a piece; of//land/i was;:; purchased; in] .order•(that the grou'nds.Vshould -be(sufficiently large; .The: napital,;value;.of -the" : land, hoi un-;dcrstbbd;-i'was: £6000,i.accbrdin'g ;.to i .Governmerit;.;'valuation;];:and:,the tibii, by'' the ; he ]had(.not].gbt?f rbm \ any mentVvwaV.toj.the^effect"that'-the Govr ; eminent .'paid ;£lojooo .forrit;''; : Tlio'.'land hi; question was; at;'tho';frbnt gates: v]y. :Severe Comment;by Mr./TV;.'.Ei(Taylor.. »/' Mr.' iT.; :';B;;; ; .when-the ,CiyiL;Service "Board's'report-in regard tb:tho: TaxesDepartment'.,was jputVon the' table, (that -the(report;;was tub;full /report;;/;;;' : ' ■;((('"(';."/];;:];;'(■-(:((';(. '"'(/ ((..'Sir'Joseph:;No,'l:(said;'it;was. not. ' :(.^:Contmuing.L'his^-/remarks,vMr; :: -Taylor, said ('irbm the.maii(in(ithb;:''stfeet';'that' any member.,of (the.. Executive;:or i- L of Parliament :Wa's>in;ariy;.degjee(ihvolve4(in(:any misconduct'/onV.tM/Paft bf; any (officers of the;(Taxes:'-Departmeiit.y ; . Bb:((then he] -(was(v (dealing;:((with; ■■"■, the' \- .matter;.: (apart ':.;'from : '( tli at could,be-cbnstfu.ed'.tb have l a personal allusion; ...If/ihe'.were. Leader of ((the Opposition: he( (Would. take; up the posi-. tion.even if. it .involved' blocking, the ■business;, :of f sthe' i' country . ; that, ithe people's (representatives^;should ; have 1 every ;bit of information, that ■ came, into the ' pbssessibb.; .if 'Cabinet: from (any "public /Department! l ; He .did(not know what : .changes;such;a I ;reform; "were;-''being, brought 'as(rio'(oudit'of;, any -,private: (coinpahy -(would '.fallow.'.' himself ,•. to:. •be bought. ( v The.. /Executive . .apparently. thought(that/it; had ;a; fight ,to ■ stand .between (the : : representatives" : of .-'the. peoplo.'and the (things;; that, (wore hapipening(in.:tho';'public. Departments. Ho happened to: knbiv/'thatvtliero were not' only (two (matters/mentioned -in.:'; the -board's.- repprt.'but oh: the. table- of tho HouseY but (probably, more two that-;were :; inquired:into: / Somp-'of.', the other:.cases( were 'of. a much, worse char-' acter> 'than the ' two( matters..' laid bo: fore the House!'He could not'find (any reason/to. justify the('Executive(-in ,adopting the;, attitude which' they were ;taking. ; up(./;-;,i.::,;,r-;.;,:.: f : ; :(:;; ; ■■■■

A Serious Allegation. ..: What (right had /members, to; be kept irpm];facts that; proved'-'that the (late Commissioner,- of ■ ;Ta_xes, -was - a partner in/ one 1 ' or; ;mbio: businesses;' in;- 1 Wellingtiop ? M That (was a'distinct breach of tho Civil Service' regulations.. The charge of (actual partnership Avas .-made] and proved./., Now/ the ..House was asked, to belieyej tliat](no (infbrmatipn"'could 'bo given, as. iti-would(]invblvo"making .private; affairs'.public, j; Ho. .was not sure that] members had, üb'/right to be de-; frauded of in possession 'of Cabinet. Not only w;as the partnership proved but there. w:as ono- particular transaction-.-'which.!did:,not]at( all" involve private ..affairs. ('/It] was- of this cliairacter for- instanco.i.-.MiTlie. commissioner was (charged. with"having; allowed. a certain adjustment'of accounts ihvolv-] ing income. tax payments;: but not (disclosing the private returns' compiled by any. -firm or individual.".'"And-, because this particular adjustment'; was ; perr mitteu a consideration of several hundred pounds was made .by these. - individuals to the; Commissioner of' Taxes representing a'■ monetary obligation ho was under to thesp p particular people, (and'for'the]]aajustraent]of the income tax* a, consideration, ~was. 'extended to tho ■ officer! He believed • that was proved.] -He,was not going. to give details ;' ho. was only indicating tho character of the other charges. Ho would like the.Primo Minister to satisfy tho 'House, 'that] there, -was '.nothing in connection.' '•' with '.'.'. transactions like that that],he. had . a , right to convert; into a,.semi : secret' character. And of the (eight. ; or -nine others, he

could not recall one, the publication of tho de-tails of which would involvo tho. giving of. a single figure relating to. the income tax'.of ■anybody.'' ■

■'. Need for Publicity. |-_He understood the' Government, dosired not to let it' be more'widely known than could be helped that ono of tho Departments of State had .really' fallen into misfortune. 'But if we. were in the future to.bayo conditions surrounding our State Departments, such as to render a "repetition difficult■■ or impossible," there was -nothing/that, would' sweeten the, atmosphere, of the Public Service or make the -misconduct." ou the part of officials so difficult as publicity. . Publicity, was the healthiest 'thing, in'.the world for all public affairs. He; did not wish to"drag in/any names, ibut he did not'' see why the ;Hoiise should not • have details of a case 01 Jhiit "-kind;': Supposing a wealthy. man ■in this city; a member not of . that branch of " the ~ Legislature,•' was allowed to. pay income tax minus'the ordinary penalty of 10 pel- cent, for late payment. J What in the nature : of private information could' it be.'suggested, 'such'a, transaction' would : involvo? If 'such consideration been : expended,: .":or. ..was■ .extended,. .by- tho popartment ' to. a '■•' man in, such .'a' position,, how could it bo suggested ith'at..members of. this- House,' by being 'aware of such. a. transaction, could possibly. be ..supposed to; bo investigating ■into - the . private income tax affairs of anybody f -It was . a fraudulent trans'action, connived iii by someone' in tho Department; Ho did not' suggest that 'it-he. Executive had the slightest know-, iledge, that such a, thing .was being done:.-. But that,did- not alter his con!tentidn l thai-Parliament,had a'right to ■ know wbbther ,ahy of its imi>ortant, officers, had so far. forgotten, his duty, to ithe country■ as" .-to/ allow such. consideration: to be extended .to a-man of '.influence "and. wealth—whether political- or isocial. ihfluerico'was immaterial. He, •had justi indicated some of'the matters -.which'; came- beforo the' board .'at its ■recont inquiry. There were'none of -the matters'(leaving out the.two to; which ; the 'Premier'-, had / referred):;; in -regard to which ..the' full 'publication .of .-.the evidence would really -involve the giving aw'ky' of- a'-single,'figure. -" Under che ; .circumstances;'" should the House, be; kept frohi.a : knowledge;, of "the offences?, ,

"(Tribunal Should be Set up. ".He did not/want the Premier (to put anything ori(the table.;(he could let :the( (matter..:'cbino, before .the- Public Accounts ■ "Committee. ;-.(.-,; Continuing, Mr: ('( Taylor ( . said - he (, would.:;. bb. iquite'■'''.''.mll^n'g•:^that:'■ ; '^: ; ■the■'-.;'•Publio('■'■•Ac-' counts: Committee: should (be'Athe,:.tribuhal. before', which these matters' should .go. : : :; This- .would be. a,wider.:;tribunal :thah '-'the;' (Executive. /■ - (There'/ was;;iio' suggestion- at all /that ahy(;member/ of :tb6/;Esecutiye(. was- a 'party /directly 'pr( indirectly'to 'anything- improper; but there (might (be"a- -member:; of .thP ;Exe-, in: future who would]bo: a party 'to'.some,:improper:transaction, and it Hyould'-be (dangerous; to - allow; the/Executivo to:assume]the right'to]intercept documents /.from- .a-'■' tribunal -;, appointed to;inquire' into .public affairs..( Tho':]reprosentative:'of .the-people (had ;a Hght :to.'information effecting the morale/of. ,the/, whole 'publib: sorvicD.] /.'(Ho /could ' learn; bf hbfliing.that/came-before./Jhe Oommissibners./that-justified>the Prime Minister, in';,koepirig; back .the-,.whole, of ;the:,details ; ,of• the' .ten' or .twelve: mat : ; ]tbrs; tliat formed. the-.'subject/matter/-of .the//inquiry.-, ]•':Mr; .Taylor .voiced the grievance of cadets/ in the, Civil Service in : respeci to the; cinplbymcnt; ! pf casual bands,. ]. :(Many ;of these cadets , were . tw'ehty-four/or twenty-five years of ago, ]and'C.wcre;'''rM^ ■Raw,:recruits (were:/being'taken.on at 10s]-ia., day j. and in],many cases... they reached'- aa'-high as;£l6o a (year.: ;Thus c'adetsiwh'o. had been .trained;in: the ser;vico: (for.' years ' were . receiving ,( some-, times'/£3O a year/less than ,they( wore, although 'they- we're(responsible..for (tho integrity of ..the: casuals; V] Mr. Taylor, also made a:-„plea,.fpr-(classification':in the] /Postal Department,:;. (' ' . ■■•'■'■;';.■.' '■■'{, ] Mr/]Fisrier on the Civil,. Service. : (Mrz/Fisher:'(Wellington. Central)- said 'one would /almost(be; inclined to', think from /the] remarks of the (Prune Minister "that ! it].was a]crimo for (a man/'to , be I ', retrenched] -or .from\ /(the Civil. Servicb. ■( -Mr'.; Fisher (wont oh to refer./'to .the. fact' that 'under - the present . system the- Civil. Service 'had;been overcrowded, , and, a class.(of men; created who..] were accustomed : : to being ' {paid doing sufficient work to.occupy their (time. ' 'Teniporary (.officers were taken into the departments;] and. were kept .oil'- from: month to month, • to_ bo thrbwn.oiit \ after ■' the, g'bheral- (election, and''.th'bn:bb/takeii'/ou. again;'] (This had ..been, .the (system/ which had. grown ;up;during; : the';past]'twenty: years; and may(-:,have.:existed even' before .this.] At any "rate, ;it-should- bo'/'done away with;'(.' More-responsibility; should, bo thrown' oh ; the heads, of (Departments, who'V- should,: be; (left] ;(to] choose their;- men. / '..'• When ,-.; ho;:;,was-...,in a .: Government (Department \ lie (had found':' that': the ■Jhead, of\ a Department could not .spend- £2,-or ( £3 / without ■consulting'-'.the Minister, ; ]:in];cha:rge'.; :l'he/heads of Departments'.were- mere automatons.: Mr./Taylor(appeared (to (know more/ about the. Income Tax Der 'partnient than the : Prime, Minister'did;' At' the'time.of. the commission;] the; House/; had ..been led';, to believe/.that ,-the- 'Prime" Minister... was. giving them /a(resume, if not the whole of the.]details,„of./the' case".;'.'.' Bu- .Mr.. Taylor,,liad. given (the;.-Hbuse ; ;mpre. information: oh; the matter,than,Ministers had been'able'to. give] and had: (yet given no. pi'ivate-'infofmation., It. was the- attempt. at 1 / concealment■ -on , r the part, of /the ; Government that'.aroused' the, curiosity,'• of the.;.. people to'.; the . highest pitch. ((The Prime Minister .pip-./ bably. knew.;the names ofvthe legislators (rumour; connected with the., case, and if lip did.hot he (Mir. Fisher), could. telLhim. ■ /' '■ : : ; :.; ,-A- voice::."Not a. member of this House." !; : : '/i . / :•-,' ■'■ . /;.: ;/. -.;. '(;:;: . Mr.' Fisher:; "It. is near .enough." l -].. ' Continuing,] '; Mr.- (Fisher, said. ■he thought thi)' Prime /Minister . should, ■place .the information at/ his(disposal oii the table/of the; House, and thus, give'mombers,the information to which they (were entitled., .'Having, disposed of.the .head; of the.Department and the. Valuer, why, he -asked, should the balance of the pases be held up? This, and; this alone,: was exciting the comment and curiosity, of the public at.tho present time. It would have; been much better had, the Prime , Minister : given tho House tho full information .in the first place.-' '-."■ '.•'■; '■ ■

; Government Advertisements. >i Mr. : Wright (Wellington South) urged that, fuir publicity should ,-be'-given to detail of the cases; The members, as 'custodians'- of the people's rights, were entitled to know what was going on, ; but they could get very little', information. ; They had to .'get their information'from the man in the street, and then they ,woro censured for retailing idle gossip. -Mr. Wright alsoasked . for; information how .'certain cadets had .been taken into the Civil ;Sorvice.' Re had furnished names and full information to the Prime Minister, who howevor had made no statement beyond .i denial by wny of-.interjection'. Two lads bad passed tho examination and; wero. told they had passed too youns, and could not be taken in. Shortly afterwards, in spite ~ 'of.. 1 this fact,, ono of the- lads was. taken on, while, the other, was; excluded. Thorn should 'b'n no such discrimination. Hp presumed, accounted.-for the fact that one lad' was taken in and tho ;othW was not. He would be told that this was a •trivial, mutter, but there was a principle inyolved_ in the possibility of one lad getting in at the' back dtior. Mr. Wright then proceeded-to criticise the manner in which the Government .distributed..its newspaper-' advertising.

Quoting from a return for the year ended March 31 last/Mr. Wright.said that the Damifivirke,"Advocato J ".which supported tho Government in a very'complete fashion, received £68 15s. for 'Government advertisements. Tho Daunovirko '-'Daily Press," which supported tho Government, was now defunct." and from March 31 to October received" £15 9s. 3d. The Dannevirke "Evening News," which did: not support tho Govwnment, had received £1 9s. 3d.' Ho thought he was justified in drawing the; attention of tho House to tho gravo injustice dono to this paper, about tho proprietors of which ho knew nothing. Pile Dominion had , received only £12 IGs. 3d. for Government advertisements, rho House was told last session that the reason-this paper received so little (vas that it was a third paper in Wellington, and that the advertising was .divided, between ,tho. two older-estab-lished papers. As. far' as that went it was' a fair argument. There was an interesting comparison to bo drawn from Dannevirke,,however.. Both Government papers there received : advertisements, although, one, was. comparatively a new paper. When.the:"News," which was on the other side of politics, took'its.place,-'k was boycotted.' .

Effect of. Holding Back Information,

Mr. , Herdman (Wellington North) said the ,;Prime Minister had, in tho. course of his statement, said that if he ;Wero to give full information regarding, what had ; taken : place in connection with the irregularities in : the Income Tax Department,; the resultwoiild be to create in the mind of the public a>kck of confidence in the Administration.' He (the speaker), could not agree .with this., -Keeping iback the information would'rather tend to a lack of con-. , fidence.'-. .-' What, asked;- Mr. Herdmaii, would-:tho ; -people of England- think if a' similar -policy, were .pursued by the British Government!' There would be an outcry ifrom the liprth to. the south.. Mr. Herdman -urged.-.that the 'House was . entitled to data in regard to, the rebuilding of Parliament buildings. It; was / an '.extraordinary -thing . that' no statement had been made.to the House as to' when, it,was; intended, to proceed with;, the. 're-erection j of a -, permanent House of Parliament.;. - The Government should, have t01d..-jibe .House- what they intended to" do • ' in 1 regard te'. the reerection of .'tho building, and. when. it. was intended, '• to,;proceed- - f with . the work. ~'• He did: not, think/the' Govern-; -ment could erect the House, in -a; better -.j place than; the old 'site. ; :: The best policy'; they, couldvhave; pursued would', ;haye been to re-erect : the old Parliament' House,, .and;.to.;have, kept Government 'House where, it had been; before. ■,','.lnstead pf;doing-' .'.'this:; the 'Government had pursued some sort -'of nebulous scheme. ': A- considerable, amount,".'of .money, ;\had ! ; been: spent,' 'and,, the "whole 'matter -hadVbeeri;gohc, about in ah ,un-■ i businesslike' ".way. : ; Th r o,. Government .should '.tell-the, House, what the-, total cost ; of, the' 'new'-; Government- House arid'the cost;of;the.-preparation of the grounds were..; The .'land-purchased,for 'the/purpose of .making theapproach- to; the'Govornor'a'residenco' was stated to. have cost; £10,000, but the Government'! • valuation: of - the. land was : only given -| 'as £6000; ;,: 'How,-' was ) it, that .a- pro- j perty,, the;.valuation' of'which . was I £6000, "edst' the ■ Goyer'nment ,-£IO,OOO P There;,might.; ..be; some.yalid, reason ! for ■ .betweei'tv-'itho'; figiiies,but'rthe' House': was.,entitled; to .know; Reverting- to .the Parliament : buildings,; Mr. :Hefdrriari said. that;, since" the- fire m'the; old;buildings.-£27 ; 733 had. beeii voted for.' temporary building;'and' al-.; ■tera'tions'.'------'-. : -'-.:-'-:.-'.' ■■'■■■':■:■■.■>,'■:.'- ■• : '. , :.v;■;'.;;.''-•)

Government Building Schemes

;/The "Prime'•■ Minister.explained.: ; . that' the £10,000. paid for the/land .'for' the. approach to the' new Government House included not.only'the land;/but a"dumber of houses.on/it.'. This' sum was paid oh the .advice,of tho Government' Land Purchase .Officer., /The owners/.'wanted more, .and ;he/had been'advised,that if the' matter.; had been' referred to' arbitration the Gbyenvinent"; 'would 'liavo been required pay more,/ ;' ,■'./ ~ ': , .''-Mr.'.Herdman:';What,is/the corporation;, value?,/':.' "'/-'V;-;.•..:/;//;.> :■■■ ,;' Sir 'Joseph,, Ward: ; I"have ■ iiot"': got ■that." A ; :'i/,;/- v .; v !/,■;.' 'i ; ;:;"/.:,.;/ r ;V :i 'r :■;/ '/-In /five cases;■ out. of sis;, added-. Sii Joseph,, the. Government; had • to pay considerably," more; than., the : valuation' put upon/'the, roJl/when/they went to arbitration;: .When /the. whole ~ of" this' business.had-been,'iihished/the Govern-, ment: woiild'havo- done a' fine thing" for the .country '.and -for the city of ■■ Wellington. ..Unfortunately; the -members, for Wellington -City; were the' only'■', people' who', took; exception-to. what, the .Government 'were',doing.;•'•'' -■i;- ; '.;.-' /.Mr. Herdman: We/do.not know what /;, ■'-.<'.:■'•';' Sir Joseph/said the Government had been acting :on.'the report of .the com,mittee. /which. reported • on; the'' ]. m'attii' to; the //House. : ,. The. hon.-' gentleman was trying 'to . make.Oparty capital ■ out of'the matter, which was not fair/ .He could not. the: old site was ; tub best one for Government House. •■'.. : The Tax Department, i ... Referring to the lucome Tax D.epari> ment matter,' Sir/Joseph; -said! /Mr. Herdman'/and ',Mr..:Taylor' : had, : 'asked him-ztb disclose' confidential matters concerning the. private:.affairs;.of/ taxpayers.;"' He. declihed/to.' be,placed: in/a position in which it could/be..said .he was trying to, keep anything back; He had administered .the /. Tax Department for,a, number of years, and never inCa single, case had ho had referred..to him any-taxation .papers in his capacity/in . charge ■ of ; , tlie ■ Tax:•'■ Department. • Lt members could'get the/■ information they wanted from outside that was' their l.business:'-ho;, would, not'give it;" to . thbm. In their : 'report' tho Civil /Service/Commission, stated that',, they, investigated in all eighteen charge,/ Five of them'failed altogether, or;were with T drawn.,/ In some, pases irregularities of adininistratibn.were proved, /but in none of them was Mr, Heyes In' none ,of ; them'; : was : . there any evidence of /corruption pn the, part of Mr, Hey'es/ .administration of any' of, the offices' '.which.ho"■■filled.' ' .. . Mr,-Fisher: In- nonoof them? / /Sir Joseph: In none. •',/.. '/.Mr., Fisher:, In the five- or in the eighteen?;./. -~.; ; :■■ ■; .','" . .'Sir -'dbsepli: In.tho whole .eighteen. . Mr. Fisbcr: Then why.was Mr, Heyes dismissed? ; '" ".'; '.'■ ■■■•'■.' Sir Joseph: Theso eases Telated ' to the Taxing Department.'.: Mr, Hoyos's troubles, arose over valuation matters. Private Affairs. . Continuing, Sir Joseph said this was a ease of.".trouble between", officers of a Department. In .regard to tho investigation,. the taxing papors'of-private individuals were involved. . .•These', taxpayers had no idea that, their affairs were.under review. The chairman of tho; board had written him that the report was framed, on the assumption it would not be made public. The report disclosed ■ names and the private affairs of taxpayers.. 'If .they had known that it was to be published its compilation would . have- seriously embarrassed them. , Sir' Joseph' went on to say that if one or two of the cases wore to ho' published, why not; the whole eighteen? /' Mr. T.-.E, Taylor: AVhy not? There alo no, private income tax -figures in connection with them.'Sir Joseph: lt does not matter whether that is so or not; . Mr. Hordman: Why not tho information, without the names ?. Sir Joseph: No; I am not going.' to do that. ; Mr.'Wright:'Why? ' , Sir Josoph: If two officers of .a Department have a row over your taxing papers/and you didn't know,.what would you think if the Minister gave away your affairs? Mr. Taylor: AVhy not lay tho matters ■ before the Public Accounts Committee? ,'' Sir Joseph: Members of the com-

mittee may bo hero ono session and away tho next. > Mr. Taylor: A Ministry 'may bo in, one; year and out the next. Sir Joseph: But Ministers .take an oath of secrecy. Mr. Taylor: I don't think that it covers cases like this. In tho course of' further remarks,- the Prime Minister referred to the cases of the cadets, mentioned by Mr. Wright. Ho said that in one case tho ago limit debarred tho' applicants, 'In the case of the other, lad, ho was . appointed to the.Public Trust Office because ho was at the top of the list. . No member,.or Minister had asked the Public Trustee to appoint tho lad.

Boycott of "The Dominion." Mr.'Massey, referring to the Parliamentary building scheme,' said- it came as a great surprise to him that since the fire tho. Government had spent thehuge sum of £27,000 on temporary premises, -and they were still in those temporary buildings. As to tho new government House, he ventured to suggest that' it would cost £50,000 beforo it was all;done with,- and,the residence' looked down on tho backyards o) what were tho slums' of 'Wellington, if Wellington had slums; ; .'A.huge mistake had been made in shifting . the residence from 'the old site, and the old house on the old site would have been. better than the new.building on the new.site. He suggested that 'the- Government should hand over the new Government House for a Children's Hospital, and,let the Governor come back to. the .old site:'' He had gone:into the question of Government advertising again. 'Compared with-,last : year, .the .position', -in' that respect was oven worse this , year. The Dominion was still,being boycotted. He was.not speaking.on behalf of the directors;; he; had not : :a .single' shilling .in the journal,;.nor .was, ho under any obligation .to them:,; Everybody would admit -that..The' Dominion was a good : paper,. ; - with a - big "circulation.-''- In the expenditure of the public money for advertising, the people at'the head of affairs "-should not; overlook.. such an, important' paper.: Then,', again, there, was the case of/.the Dannevirke ■ "Evening News"; it,was iri'the same-position; Also there was the case ofthe "North Otagb: Times?' -~ V' ;;/,;:::--',:; . , Hon.' T. Mackenzie: / What is its en*, culation?'" ',„;,;'. ~

Mr. /Massey::.:l'.'don't; -know, butvl know.it is, a good .'paper. ':.. : -: : : j Continuing,,;Mr..'.Mas'sey ,'said that if the question'of circulation .enteied 'in the. matter, and it-should, why: not -take'-the "case of ; tho;WeHington'papers? The .Dominion'v:had -double:the circulation; of the Government journal.* . v .-;■.'■■

'■;■ ■'.' [■] -'.-■'; A DangeVous]prinqlp(e, ; - i'Mn'-iWdght; 1 ('Wellington;''&uth), iri ,the.;c6urspi.of the. question ,>,of .".Government advertising,said' .that tbero: wore . h ; number.-of weekly',papers,who' should not get ."State ■advertisements : - iri.prefereuco to;-daily: papers. „ Ho ■.■noticed', 'thatjf ho- 'Tree Lance," .■. whicli [ Supported .-.tho, Goyerrimerit, - got Govoriinienii ■■.' advertisements worth; £190 last-,year., 'Why'should-a paper like that. get'inland mail-notices,; time-tables,-etc.,•■■■. wh'eu.:'!tlicy were; refused'tt/THE I, Dominion?. Other, iweekly papers in'the official return-,,wore the . which : got £114'.last,year, .'and; tho; Christchurch. "Spectator,'-',which ! wasi owned'•.by.' a Ministeriahst-member arid g0t;£165.' : ;.,, ,■-■■ Joseph' :; ; There.is no; reason .why. a; man-, should .not;own a; sup, port tliO'Governmeiit.:. ;,;;..;;;;, .; ; ;-;

/■■!■ ContinuiEgl'his fomai'ks,; Mr..,.Wright 'said that; there,was. also; ''New:;', Zealand. Truth',!' which','got',/State./.advertising .worth '£24;; last/year.:/ !,Other-v'.paper's which' he would mention wer'o-the "Itcd: .Funnel,": ; £l6; .'Saturday.' Night," £17; /'New Zealand .Tablet;' 1 ; £26; and "Wa'iroa 8e11,",£13;,/Yet a big' paper like ;Thb 'Dominion-got only; £12 ■ last' year, 'Jt was ;not a' fair ..distribution, of tho State/advertising. " .Mr',. .'Wright;'/also mentioned, ; ;■- the / "Pdhiatua \h Herald 1 /'; . which /was '/opposed to'the' Government,' /but was the Only paper in the town' got only; £12.-. 'In thb;case.of : the 'fßotorua' .Times,'';.wjiich/favoured'' the/ 'Government/got" £53.. ■:"' Tho; "Wintoh Kecoi;cl" 'got. £33.,:-'. ':■):■• ■ v;/.^.;, ; /.., ;,//-/.v/ '■•■-. Sir Joseph': That .is not very,, much... .- ■", Mr./.Wright:-•:I. submit. that,, ; it ■ all ',' shows-' bias on,'tho/. part,/of/.'tho' Statu Department; but .'whether, they were instructed ..that /way. lie wad not prepared ("to:.say. '• There was .a bias in ;tho.direction/:of;.-giving/..tho..,lipn!s; .share; of/the/, advertising, whether ; . it suited... tho I public,'or not, to. the; papers; supporting the /■.Government.';'. It;; was a-, very/dangerousV'prihciple./:;.;; ; •■'■;-;■ i : ; Eoonomy: In State ■Advertising.'//; ;/ .The Prime- Minister /said ibat. there were; 234■■.' papers' invNew. Zealand. Of these 152 were on-the; authorised list. i Since 1908 no additional'paper', had' been put oh; tlie list.;. 1 They could l not pick' but, any papor.as Was.the theory/,put forward/in Wellington,/and' not./add so manyi'othor ■papers/tq'tho' list. '.; ";' •; Mr., Herries: How' many/ other daily papers except ,'l'hb Dominion are not on th'eJist?,;; ■■', •';.//; :: ; *.;.., ■''. ?■/:"■'. ':-/'■ ■,'.-"'; ■■. Joseph:Vl-doii't/lsnow. '; J ,' .;'..'.•' :/. Mr., Herries: That is- the-,question.' ; : ,Contmuing,'.Sir:'Joseph; said/that if aiidther/.paper, were /started;'iii Christ. church^it would not get tho Government ' '■- :■';... ./,'■..' .■;;.-/; '■.'//.'■: / Members:! Oh,' you'/would.';•:■::•': '' :. <lii conclusionj Sir. Joseph stated .that' there had been great regard to- State'adv,ertising. ; ,/,The ; itbtal. '■ cost last year was £11,431;' whilst' hi ISJOB it was £13,262, in' 1907/ it was £15,170; and..i in ,;1906 ; ; it..' : . was.'; £16,395; The Government.had to piill-in ;on.. advertising. ;' It/was,no : time to be.putting 'new papers on the list,\when the De T partment was:cutting, down, on advertising- all /round. / Referring ;■'/ to the : "Dannevirko;Daily Press" matter mentioned; by'Mr; .Wright, Sir Joseph that paper'was' on tho authorised' list,' but. in /October', 1909, the paper.' haUbeen m'orged in. the ''Evening News." This paper was not on the list, and had not beori placed on.. /Since; 1908 no papers at all bad been placed on the .list...;. This'; course had been taken/advisedly, because the Government 'did not want to 'hit-out in allrrbuhd ' increases if they could avoid it./':.

Remarks by Other Members,

Mr'.'.' Fisher (Wellington Central) ro ' ferred at some length to the position; which led to the House agreeing to the transfer ;.of . Governor's' residence and Parliament/ Buildings /after, the', fire. Tho vote, in .favour of the change had been carried entirely because of tho misrepresentation/made as to the. position at the time.' If'the House had a free voto on the .question to-day, ho thought thoy, would ' certainly; decido to go. back ..to tho old site.',.' ' Mr. G..M. Thomson ; (Dunedin North) changed the subject of debate to Education, and; proceeded ; later to ■ urge that a ;properly trained' officer shoxuu bo appointed to take charge of tho forestry of the' Dominion. ' '.-•'. Mr, Hanan (Invercargill) urged that the subject of afforestation did not receive the. consideration and attention it should;do from.members ,and. the Gbveniment. .-.■■' '■.... '.;■:....' Mr. Hardy (Selwyn) favoured uniform school books, and was of opinion that the introduction of free text-books was a big mistake. ..Mr. Guthrie' (Oroua) .thought it would be bettor if the money that-was spent on free text-books was devoted to another purpose . ,-;..' Mr. Hine (Stratford) emphasised .the need for seeing that the control of infant classes. w<as_ never- put in tho hands of inexperienced teachers. . Mr. Scott (Tuapeka) objected to the employment of prison labour for devel-oping-orchards. More About Retrenchment, Mr. Men. (Bruce) pointed to tho fact that vory little.had. been carried out by way.of retrenchment in- some of the De-

partment-s. Ho did not think the Prime Minister should rest quiescent after a speech like that made by Mr. T. E. Taylor. The' Prime' Minister had not given satisfactory information in regard to the Taxes Department case,, the Parliamentary Buildings, or the State, advertising. He .would like the Ministor for Railways to explain how.he arrived at his saving of £123,175 in the administration of tho railways.. ... Ho (Mr. Allen) worked it, out that there, was an increase of £147,281.' . A .permanent saving of £15,715 was claimed in the Post and Telegraph Department. He couldnot see how this was arrived at. because, he, made it thatC£4l,226 more had been spent than in the.previous year.' Mr. ' Herdman (Wellington North) said that he would like to know from tho Government what money was expended on Government advertising out;side New Zealand. In. the "Standard of Empire" appeared statements relating to New Zealand; and Now Zealand politics; .'. ~■''' ' Sir. Joseph:; We have nothing to dp with the telegrams appearing in that journal. .'

. Mr.; Herdman,;(continuing) said that useless advertisements relating to New Zealand, were inserted in a number' of Home papers.^;■'■;'.,

The first item was carried, arid-the House adjourned -at '2.45 o'clock this morning. : -'. ■' : -