THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 916, 8 September 1910, Page 5

THE HOUSE.

OAIViARU HARBOUR BOARD. ; PROPOSED COMPROMISE Of V:^ : : : % 7;v^; ; ;;LOAN.V; v ;:;-'.; ; ..■ ■ :: ;■' - : j. '. ':■■'■ When;the; sittings of, tbpiHouse were, resumed yesterday,:.- ; :■;, '"-"•'; -: Board Enabling ■Bill^—a .private ; BillT-came . ori.-.. f or'.its second Teadirig. , ': , ■,'.":•'•'?• -.'■■. ■'-. .-.i..'-; < Tlie:Honv: ; T. ;y:;:DUNCAN (Oamarn): said that the, object of 'the;measure. was , to- authorise and 'empowerVthei-; Oamaru < Harbour-Board to ette'et.-a cbmpromiso with T cerfcain. holders of ;debentures. -is* sued'by-:the.board 1 and-, to. raise.'a'loan, for thp: : purpose of-carrying iinto .etfeo.ft the compromise.',He : said ;that. in 1879 'thei board .'raised: a:loan "for £100,000, . secured;, upon , , the.ilands. of: and : tho,-rents,'.income;.and profits, also (tho -'''charges, V-tolls',' arid.'.'; dues of ■ the ; : boa"rd,'v'ittpiecti'to','tho': mortgages there:on,;,b,ut;.not fiecurod on any,; special,rate .on other property.: Ono thou--.san'd ..debentures 'of .eacli,'-.- paJTible ','diivMa.rbh' '1/1919, and bearing 'interest ':atvthe;irate[Vpf ,£6 per centum;per,«n- ; JriumyVwore':duly'Vissued.-'f The; interest ■.;&n;|li|s' : :lqaii-' ; u'ir:io'-Nbyemb'6rVlivlßi|2i-■.hadi'.been :paid, but the interest,since -;Was v wholly, in '■ arrears,, and the ■. full ' amount.. of. principal . of;. .the 1 loan ■ was ;still; -unpaid. Upon \ the;;application,. 6f,< a.committee,of the bond-holders;to'the. ;Supreme Court ;iii 1894Va; receiver, was 'the j.boiird.;h"a'd; natufajlyfaltered'-since: :this loan annual amount froin ' rents, ■ ' <lwx, : ' .'jtc.y V.'as. : almost j- wholly ■: required A to; meet;; ' the -charges '\yhich had priority ' ,over;-thb :loan'. ! .; : The::proposed : compromise .'-with/ ; tKo;;d.ebenture-hqlders...consisted .of 'the; issue;to: tlieiri;in r oichaiige for:their''de--' ;bentures^of;Xother■;;. : debentures'..;Vfor'; : £so,oop,:.bearing''-interest v at',iho!rate of '4v per '.cent;■;,'or-•;.'at ..the .option..of;the 'board of : the".payment to the holders prp. ,rata:;of.' the: ; ;sum''of i.'£47,000 in. cash,: ;at,4 per/cent .'"frpmype-. ■ cember .31,-, 1909. : ; Thi)- , -, liolders - of., nioru - than I '7o^ pertcent.,^faf-:the;;capital sum 'had: ; agreed Hp.A/acc'eptj'tho; comproniise: '■Thb\-]boArd-:tli6l:efore ; -desired i,tb':carry but'the;comproni)w; ■'- ■ ; .^: ; ' ,--'.,Sir''; v-W: : J;r-STEWARD ■:-■ (WaitakiV said'/.tliat ..'forturiatoly.v.the.' board -.'was thovbnly; pjublic; ; body; iri. : Zealand ..'that;-was. , iri.V'd^fault..:^/ .The': board;had ;faUpiv'-.mt6!:'^ 'fact,, .that'.-differeritial;;;. railway .'.rates . startedMt; : was;; thpuglit the; ■ hir- ; ■bdur,; would'I's'erye :"a .',. rnSch' larger'.diut trict.- * : 'l'he;' tiitar 'of -the 'loans. ;; w.as ,£29O,poo,r;:of t which • £190,000' wak;:sothe bond-holdersi.for the; , other .£IOO,OOO in: London-appointed a , ieceiver.-;'- Over : J the:'mpney \ wore willing :to';'agreo::to',tho : 'payment ;of. £47,000,' pro vrata "among all : 'the-debenture-holders :in' : satisfaction, , of:all':ilieir;claims.'V '. ■:,'';:; ', ' - V '. ' Statehient■; Sir J oseph■'-.W ardi' ; : l ; r ; ; ;, : ; M^iSTER-said; he 'symf .pathised;:, ; wifii the; people; wlip'rh'ad! this iiicubiis.'.put .Tipoii ;;them Vin;.connection TVithya loan :■ obtained ."many... years ago, and '.the:: position, was ;a jregrettablo one. 'tionyihe: did; not- \yish; to;,reflect'.-- up.on those:" responsible; .'for' obtaining ..these Ipans'i in,;.the; past. :, ;'.Th6:;oamaru .district!'.was f a ■■ fine: orieV land; the town .Was v : a':j;mosi> ;: !.excellerit itownyjbuf;; at';• tho ;time; ; the^;board :;borrowedv ; the,:money; the';district was: 'in -avdiffererit position, it -,was\6rie,. pf ■ the portions :.: of -i"the 'country : where-large landed.-.estates 'ex■.ist'ed'.. had.;!since .become vclpsely/settied.. l :-In.:hisj.opinioii:: the' Goyernin'eiitiof': the: day."could-not have dealt;; with-the^-.matter : ,of /the': failwaj, administration I otherwise '.than :;they. had; donejrand.';they\wereTin,no.-.way:: respoii-sible;-tpr-" tho position the=-board' founditself /in'.: ';;No doubt,', as "a ..railway do-.veloped,-.(it '.did.l effect, a< change■ : ini.'rt-, 'gard ; ;tp::W: port,-;but,, when ; tho.,country .decided : :!upon ;a. public work; policy, .the :cpuntry;;'as.'a; whole.■:had ;tp!. see' ; that ■such;a';;policy;; : .was : carried'.p'ut-.fpr th«, general;good, , ,and _it;was'.lor.-the. Goy-; prnment;,of; the;, day to !see' that/traffic ' shoiild:;;hbt;igo; past :theV railways ! thut shouldr:go ov?r/.them. .Therefore the Governmeht of the.' country ;, was l ; not ;responsible,for. l the. troubles of the board,. In:'bis..opinion,;the board had^origin-, ally;borrowed 'too .much money—more :than' position of: the district- could afford;: .The '■'people of Oamaru would: •do; well;, not to'impose even ! what the debenture-holders' had agreed to— ly,,the reduction of the: ; obligation to £47,000,'.;f0r.. -the. Bill! prbyid.ed. .He,..believe'd it ..would, be far.; better for the'.pa'maruSdistrict ; and: certainly .far: ;better. for I .this country;:.;;'if v,the. ; total' ampunt J 'pf the loanwere.paid. .It would, be better for the 'district.-and the couri--try'to ;.ask the; land-holders to,forego, only the accumulations of interest dne.; ■He:' would, however, .- sooner see Parlia-i merit;asked ■; to:, pass, -,legislation ~: , that: would, .give 1 ., security : .for;: the V wliole ; ampuiit. of ■ tjie .loan; ..The matter . was. of ./such'.'importance,: that; he - thought. . the , BiU, should later on'be referred, to. the Public; Accounts, Committee.: Mir. Massey: Hear,: hear: -'. . . ; .The Prime , Minister said lie thought'it', might bo advisable for.the countrj' to : give 1 .a., guarantee to- enable this -to be : doiie^;': Then:tlio bondholders'.would get 205." in the ■£'./ Ho was anxious to do all -liel could to help; tie. board. It •would-never, do to ;allow-'it v to : bo ,whis-; pered-that. a' local body..had repudiat-. ed/part'of its debt.. The. presence of a recGiver; must be. unsatisfactory to all. concerned.. .. , •' "<vjv :•.-:,•:',, v, :■-.. Views of the Leader of the Opposition." ..Mr. MASSEY said if'it.were in order .to send the: Bill to the .Public Accounts Committee lie would agree. The board appeared ,to havo raised large ' loans and works wqre.completedl Then camo' "'along."'.the raihyay nrid'tho faros and ; freigl'its:'we-Te -made ;so', low .''that the irado was, driven away from tlie port and' the. board , 'could not irieqt its obligations. ;.It was for Parliament to say .whether such a thing 'should-.bo allowed; to-contimie.. From tho point of view.of tho country's oredit ; ne would sooner see .the .Government become responsible for tho loan. • No part of the 'country should bq\allowed;to. go without.paying! 205.. in the £, even'if it meant that .the ■ country had to coino to 'its assistance.- ■ , ■ ; Mr. Ii!ALCOLM (Clutha) said that if the country became responsible for the .loan it would mean that Parliament

would be. encouraging lenders to advance' moneys on : indifferent security. It. would be most injurious for tlio Government:- to pursue the policy which' was proposed! The bondholders themselves recognised that they had no, claim on the Government.. Tho country must allow lenders; to understand that .they.had to take .'the-.risk as regards security. Owing to the policy ot the. .Government"cut-throat rates, were," he understood, adopted on the railway. There was nothing ■ illegal in it but from the point-of view-of policy it was wrong. We should encourage tho growth of small harbours. • In New Zealand thero: were a number of ports on tho same footing as Oamaru. ■' ■~. ' Not a Party : Question. : Mr. BUCHANAN: ■ (AVairarnpa) .emphasised the importance of'tho question. Ho agreed with a ' good deal that had been said by tho previous speakor. , The proposal should not be adopted';without the, grayest deliberation. .He did not agree with.the Prime Minister in- .■absolving-' Iho Railway Department.. This ' Was not. ' a ■ party question .at all. Unfortiinutbly • the Railway , Department had in this' and other cases prevented' the■ harbour from getting justice. He would.help 'to maintain the! credit of the colony.. ; Mr. BItOAVN; (Napier) supported the course which the Prime Minister ■'.had .proposed. As.the .railways advanced;, some'-.:boards must : suffer.,.. -. What. had now to be done was to get.out of the difficulty. '.The whole fault;lay -in the fact 'that .-.there was no., rating ' clause in the Empowering Bill. He would •support taxing his own and other districts to-help pay: the "debt/. When any difficulty of the 'lcind arose -the country -should''-lend' its -assistance: -He.' would go further and 'say .that the,..interest should be paid. ... ...'■. , : -. >Mr. FRASER (Wakatipu) said .that the honour of '.this' country was;.'. at stake : in tho matter.'. He questioned whether tho Bill, could be;.'sent to :the Public' Accounts .'Committee. 1 . ..-For £53,000 they" should not .allow ; 'a;'- slur co ; be, cast on- New /Zealand; AA'hen the provincial districts scheme', was done. away..witli .the .Government- took overall the'liability;; ..'''. v 'V ■■■:•:!. /■The.Bill,was then rend : r a,r.econd time. ;; :-.'%';./:'•'A: LOAN'B'iLL..'-V \; : ' ; - ; \, •AMOUNTTC^BE RAISED:;£I,7SO,OOO. !' : ; In ; the everiing a Bill to authorise the raising 'qf- a.loan for public works purr eposes was. brought .down. , :-.■•'. : .:,--; ...The PRIME MINISTER; replying.itp :Mr.;Massey,stated' that the amount,of. -.'the proposed. \: loan; .'was . £1,750,000,which 'it ; was! intended to- allocate' as .under;— Railways,': £800,000; . roads, ■£500,000} '■'additionsi.'-.-t'o '-open lines, .£350,000 j'.-othe'r publin works;, £100,000. . Bill'.was : read-.a firs time. ■ ;' 7, l--: } >-'3BEETV ; -SlUC\ftß-iILL.'" .; ! -The/.Beet rSugar ■Industry, Bill -read a second time,;pro.forma,-and.sent on tb , the Agricultural arid: Stock Com-: m'ittee.'; :.-.■': ;. ■ ' ; :}■"■.;} :;.\-'.\-., :':'i, : '.:,, ;'y-^C^!MES.-'AMENDIVIENTrBiLL : . 1 -,' i;;' : :.Upon thelTOotipii;for the-second i'eadiri'g of,the 'Crimes• Amendment Bill,, ■ : i'-:■ Mr. MASSEY raised. theJ point ;that the.-. Legislative , /! Council! had: committed a: breach Vpf, '.privilege in...;passihg ~ ihe. Bill, ..as ■ it ; c6iitaiiied;.Van appropriation; 'clause.' , -,-;/. '-,'-. ■■■'■'..■':.■.,'■ '■':;-•■ ;. ; \ '. i.\Mr. .SPEAXER:'.upheld', the conten- ; tiony > i ".-:'-!' i '.^.;. ; ;-'- _ . ',;:-;!;';,. '"( '- -i; 7..V : ;! '-!.'■:." ':■/;A cpmmitteo: consisting.' of tho Hon. ' G;:'FowldsV, Mr.;: Massey, .and 'yMr.v Hanaii,: was.s'et; up, to'draw up 'reasons in".■connection with' tho-'matter.';;.; -.;■■/.:. '(INDECENT PUBUCATIONSBIti..' READINfr PASSED..^ .-'"•'■. lii .moving'-. the ..second; reading', of ;the' Indecent-(publications'; 8i11,,' v :-'■■■:•'.} : : , The Hon/, GEO:;;rpWLDS 'pointeci .out'.that the .provisions' .of! the had: been .caref.ully./.drawii-'up,^'and "he-.;"did :not'. think the' House '■-, would, have''. aiiy. i difficulty; iii - passing. : thevßill; through -• qilickly.-■•''-'•-."■'■'"''■'.•''■ ; '-'v' ':-'. ; / : -v'V:.: ■.-::;■ '■;■}■' '..'!' ; Mr::CHERRIES :(Tauranga) ; thought' the/Government,; slibtild-- be ..congratulated.'.on! bringing, down a: 'Bill;which they thought' would: do ;-awa'y , with; a traffic,;which. , 'was. ~. sapping l : the; moral' fibre; of : the,community. .\ Referring .to Clause;6,-',he^thoughtit : :.iyas;,very draV?; .tic, and.might be discussed; furtheryn'. Committee.i : ., 'Magistrates, vcliffered 'in their iviewe. of -what .was indecent.;'hUii- ' less V.a standard ■ was put: down-to guide - .'magistrates;'--.the , aim. of. the' Bi|l; plight' ;b'e ; ;defeated , ;'.'-He hoped tlio.Minister in; charge.of-the Bill would refer it.vto' the Statutes.' Revision ..Committee •; of 'the. House'.' to ; : by \'a : ;commit'tee • '.■•'pf;' lawyersv'K'.';^ ,, ': ■;']'■•'':'■'■■'■;■:',: ■.'■■')";.-< '.■;■■,';■.;..'■.' 'iJThe FQWLDS,:in reply|sa;id; ithat: when, the JBill was. :in. Committee: he jwould":justify the .drastic':c6nditionsj or 41se agree; to'.'their modification.:He thought' 1 it;:Wo'ald be" more- satisfactory: to the House;to have.the Bill Teferred. to.' the , '. Statutes.; Revision"- .Committee!.'. There .was. a'• proyisioii in' the Bill ithat no .prosecutions, should take placo with-, ■outvthe leave of the ■Attorriey-Goneral,.; and. when the Bill.;was fully 'considered' 'heithought it. would bo found that , -the risk'of abuse;;or serious injury, to anyone, sufficiently Safeguarded;. If other 1 clauses', were cut .down, it' would leave, the , :law practically 'as it':stood: audallow offences to go : unpunished,as at''presentv'..'..'::''. : '-':'.v-.:■•;.'■:•' ;.'-y ; i-. ; ;.'.' : . •■'■• }■]■:■■■■■'..' ■': ;.Tho: ; second; reading of the: Bill.was agreedito,;and : the';Bill was .referred to,' the-Sta-tutes-Revision, Committee..;. '. ■ COLLECE BILL. ■•■'■■■:-: In moving the; second reading.of the. Canterbury- College; and Canterbury Agricultural College Amendment 8i11, : ... ;VThe Hon. G. F.OWLDS explained the .proposed alterations iii regard to districts'and to borrowing power's.';'- In. replying to remarks by Mr. Allen in regard to the election of .members-of the, .board; and;.to.the borrowing';powers of the college, jtheMiriis'fer.said.he'had no very strong feelings'. inVregard tb bor.rowingl powers; but it had,been; repre■sen<;4f to', him that tjio extension was, neclissary, and he thought a., pa-se had been iriado out, for the provision of .statutory': borrowing ■. powers. bury.College was different-.to any other 'college in New Zealand in that it had, .to >:ely oil gathering its revenue from, its :teiiants,- whereas the other colleges drow. ■ their'.,,: revenue : regularly from Government grants'.- . : ■ ;■ _ • . . • , ..; The second -reading of the Bill was agreed to. ; . , . .-'■■. RAILWAY DUPLICATION. WORKS. ' AN INTERESTING DEBATE. V - : In moving, the second reading of the Government Railways Bill, ~ ■ . ; The: Hon. J. A. MlLLAß.stated that some years ago £400,0,00 was.voted,for duplications between Auckland and Penrose, Christchurch and Rolleston, and Dunedin -and Mosgiel. The first two undertakings had; .been completed, and the additional 'amount was wanted to. finish' the, latter. ; , Mr. SIDEY (Dunedin South) thought that' in: sevfrai particulars thero had been'-'unnccKs'sary expenditure incurred which could, havo .been obviated by the use-of a little foresight.. Ono of .tho difficulties of- Government.control was that tlio Governmcjit- know, they had: a; monopoly. The public; complained, in regard-to this work that they had not 'boon consulted as they should havo been. .. .'-.- ... ■' . .-Mr.-, J.! P.' LUKEiOVellingtoivSub ,, - 1 : urbs) urged that local bodies in and around' Wellington should know -their, liability in regard to the ;Hutt duplication «;orks; but. ho was-called- to ts., lialt, as this was beyond tho • question". Referring to the Biil; itself-Mr.. Luke said :tie .Government "was mow ..asking

I for a quarter' of a million pounds to ■ complete the work.. It was another leap in the dark in regard to finance. Mr.' BUCHANAN (AVairarapa) said that if the work'as carried out was , railway construction On business lines ho knew nothing about business. Theremust have been loss of-time and dawdling in pushing on tho .work, and he hoped the Minister would expedite tho work: :■ . ■ ... ' The PRIME MINISTER, in tho course of his remarks, stated that the doubling of tlio cost of the AucklandP,enroso 'duplication 'was duo to tho fact that rock had beon met with. ■'Mr.'MASSEY said that .'anyone with any knowledge of the country, whether he were an engineer or hot, would ■have known, thero was rook, and heavy,work would, bo mot with. :Tho estimate was ■ so ludicrously out that someono should have been sacked, and ho'belioved that person was Sir Joseph Ward (then Minister for Railways). It seemed .to, him.-that; there was .something seriously wrong in, regard to tljfise lines, perhaps" sufficient to; jus-tify-the House asking for a coinmis- . sion to inquire' into the matter. If the duplication of the Auckland-Peii-ros'e tunnel was not undertaken. there would, he predicted, be- a serious acci-. dent happening.; The necessity of doing something in the way. of, instituting .mPtpr-carriages on, the .lines, of the Dominion. was impressed !.. by ' Mr. Massey, who pointed ' in. the direction: of the Hiuitly-Mercer ; section. At least ■ the Minister; might institute trials on some of the lines.. • • - ' Mr. : BUICK (Palmerston North) ■ remarked on the'difference, between the estimates of .the works 'and the ■ actual, cost of carrying them, out; He.thought, the system.under,which the.works;.w,ero. carried'put must have, something to do with this additional'expense..-,. ! ! ; ' Mr."_ ANDERSON,-. (Mataura) said that - if. the' Dunedin-Mosgicl line had been let by .contract"',; wo would havo: liiiown what the final'cost would be. The,'contract: should bei introduced in place of the co-operative labour system; ..Mr. EUSSELL (Avon) .suggested to the Minister that a ■'■' -reporti:should;be obtained from the..railway engineers. as. to what it. would cost to put the railways in, a first-class oi'der,:in : connection , with '■ rolling-stock, ; .flattenmg of curves,, etc., and ■to [ let! the coiinti-y ;lui;ow 'what . would bei necessary to ..bring the" rail-. • .ways- "up! to. their-maximum : parning. power. ''■■■'■ :';-.'.:'v.'■■'... ..-.■'-'■ •■■-■..-■•■.• : --Mr: ALLEN'(Bruce); thought' theco-; operative system had a good deal to do with-, the increased, -cost ; per milo of .lines. 1 '- Referring to: the .estimates' for : the cost of the Dunedin-Mosgiol. line; bo.i thought the '.estimates were .'either - entirely-wrong .or -the , work had-lieen inefficiently ■, carried :'out. '■ .'lii all,! the. "country was asked 'to pay ,£700,0.00 for 'work's estimated'in'the first place, to' cost'£2so,ooo.":•■ ■: ' 'i: ;--'-'■■: '-,-■ :-■'.;' ; .-.Mr. HERDMAN; ..(Wellington North) thought the present; position suggested that there, must; be , something wrong inthe construction; of our ./.public; works. , . He, thought the : whole'.; system; of cbr. operative; working should be-gone-.into ; by some'tribunal which:could niakelull inquiry. '■■ There■•''must ,; -be :".ohprmgus , waste : going, on. 'Men-had .been: put . .on tho Otago, Central works, under;cpnditipris'.which'were a'-soiindal.,-.:-,.l , 6rspiN : allyj •■ he -.thought system ■ should .'be , discontinued ', at- .leastj. it- should'' be : closely, invostigated; by an unbiased tribunal, .for the report would ■ make'.■interosting .'reading.' .'ln.' tho past' there; ha<l i been gross! miscalculation ;made,.and. a tremendous wasto.in . connection: with.: tliev. expenditure; !■ of; lnoiiey ontlie lines.in question. . •;.' -v :: Messrs; Poland;:-.(Oh.inemuri), .Hogaii (AVangaiiui), ■! and ■ Stallwortliy ! (Kaipara) /'.defended;' !'• tlio';.co-operative - sys-; -tern.::, i ~..■ .-.!•■"': ;'lVi:: ".!:■:..:;,.: ;'..;::.•"■ : Mr,; PEA!RCE-(Patea) said'that'the co-operative ' system was'-'-Lriiiging-'- 'the good'-. men "■' down, tei • tho.• level' ol ;!thO' , 'slow'men. : :-: :i ■■■■■:■■■'■■■;'.. .'■ ••"'.;;■ '.':•.-; ; -^:' , •• ;Mr. pKEYi;;(Taranaki)''rsaid he "'asked the;. Minister of :,Works. ; . before to'hai'e an inquiry madoahto.the workingl of the;cofoperative;:system;:- and: he 'hoped:this would.be done. .- :: - ':! , , ];The Hon.: R; ! M'KENZIE said that on.; the wbolp; co-operative labour w'a.s :, very, groat . ; satisfaotion..'":VThe Ilousp'and .'country:, could rpst assured : that they-were/getting -full • value'■ for■ t'heir-rnonoy in the- matter of .'this expenditure.- '< I,"'-"''-".':., , -'-, , -'-.'."■.;"'•.■': ''-'■"' ■-■:;■-:/ ; •!■■'■ Tho)' Hpn.;:;J: '.A.;;MILLAR, Mn-Hhe course'bf ; hisiVoply',--.said that the works.! had'.been ''carried out (to' : the'; best advahr; tagei-As'.'regards the Parnell'. tunnel;it : would; riot-be needed for ten -years:.: In connection , .'with' the' , claim/that' Huntly , should ■-■".be made a" "stopnihg-placo for. Main 'Trunk-.traalis, ho .might say! that if,it;w<>re dccidedito" stop '.there'.Mercer.! would:have:to boVput , out;'■..'■ It.was!ini- : .possible ioJadd .to the. number!-of stopping, places.- 'From' tie point of view'of business:. Mercer ..was' not worth ■stop- , .ping';at." ; Ot;;course,-:it .'wa-s .a matter about which : he. , .wpuld have:tojconsult! his officials.':;There;could• bo;ho:'doubt ; but' that the; installation'■.of the tablet: system on a lino i was prbperly charge-able-to..loan account.. The work .of re-ducing-the grades; on. the 1 chief' lines hsid been commenced. : Tuakau,-pn the, Kotor.ua. liiie,: ■. was the place. . Big! curvea there would b'a',reducod.".He''' did. not propose totake . a spe6ial vote: : for thatv,work-this., year/.,':Mr. Millar.' laid, on.tlie'.table the Tegulatiohs in , con-■■■ nection'with co-oppratiyc labour.'; '..'.'.:- The Bill was then-read a Be'cond time. - The House, then adjourned.': ,'■!■: : .-. -.