THE BUDGET DEBATE.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 897, 17 August 1910, Page 6

THE BUDGET DEBATE.

THE HON. A. T. NGATA ON NATIVE I . ' ■ PROBLEMS.

MR. LUKE DISCUSSES COLONIAL ■ INDUSTRIES.

] When the House of Eepresentatives resumed its sittings last night, '• The Hon. A.'.T. NGATA, continuing his remarks.on tiio Budget,'again dealt with ,tho position of the. Natives so far as. tlio law was concerned. Ho pointed out that it was. laid, down in the Native Bights Act that a Native should be deemed to bo a natural-born British subject. Only where Native custom predominated , did the common law not apply equally to Natives as well as Europeans. There was a provision that a Native might be tried by a mixed iuiy, but it had been obsolete for many years. As regards education, the law was the same, and the methods of administration were only slighfly different. In South Africa, he continued, 'Dutch was taught alongside English in the schools. What was the position as regards the Native language? Its use was practically discouraged all , round. Three-fourths of the difficulties- which had| arisen in regard to the settlement of Native lands was that it had been laid down that tho investigation of titles should be according to Native custom. It was too late to go back on that provision, now. Ono of the : principles of law had been that the average Maori did not :know the English language; sufficiently to enable him to understand the essentials of important money transactions. Another principle was that the avorago Maori had not the business capacity of the average European, and therefore required some protection and advice beyond what the average European required.

Native Astuteness a . Myth. The so-called sharpness ia dealings of the. Natives, as alleged ..by .Mr. Herries was a myth, so far as '95 per cent, of cases was concerned. Ho felt sure that the Maori would not be where ho was at. present if his business capacity-were such : as Mr. Herries had suggested. . It was an outstanding fact that in.the past the.' Natives had been had by many lawyers. Thon , . again, . another principle of the law was recognition of the improvidence of tho. average Maori. It was well known. . that.. a ■ Maori settler- could not get as large, an advance (in-his. sheep, for instance, as the Euro-' pean settler because it was known that there' was still a weakness in the Maori character in that, regard:' There was another principle of law that the communal eystem must be, broken down gradually and in the meantime a compromise must be effected to enable land settlement to be furthered. He did not wish to see tho communistic system perpetuated, but with others ,was attempting to make the best of a system which: must continue until the Europeans had grafted on the: Maori the system of individual ownership of land. There was now growing a'feeling among the '.young!. Maoris that they would like to see the profits of. their'labour go to themselves individually. Underlying the legislation , also was a,principle recognising the inability of most Maoris, added to the comunistic, nature cf their holdings, to effectively discharge responsibilities \fixed by the English 'aw on the individual; Were there any members who. wero in the position to say.that if the Government, required the Maori to discharge' those responsibilities they would be equal .to.them?- , '.. ' Evolution, Not Revolution, ' i , As a matter of fact they would not bo equal .to. them for a long, time—yet in a way thej-" were discharging them. Again there was a principle that the average Maori was physically'not so well endowed as the average European to resist disease, particularly epidemics and the, effects of alcohol. A race' not inured to ' alcohol felt the effects of alcohol more than a' raco like the Englisn, for instance, who had been imbibing their beer for the last/1000 years./ He found.also underlying legislation a principle to _ the effect tliat the application of legislation to cer-tain-Native communities was deemed difficult in .practice owing to their modo of living and the'lack of facilities for administering that legislation. There was other legislation which had proceeded on similar'lines to that affecting' the Maori people. . He was referring to tho Labour legislation. It had! proceeded, • for instance, in the way of. restricting freo contract in regard to labour,- Why-was this? Because, on tho one hand, thero was the man who knew his business against tho men who were not organised.: Therefore the State decided to protect tho worker. ,so far as wages was concerned. In conclusion, Mr. Ngata referred to the Arms Act, which prohibits' the supply of. firearms to Natives. This measure, he said, was not levelled against tho Maori be-' cause he was! a Maori. It was time it was wiped off the statute book. "The policy, it will be seen," added Mr. Ngata, "has been not revolution, but gradual evolution." ■:. . . ' . •

VIEWS OF MR. J. P. LUKE. • Mr. J. P. LUKE (Wellington Suburbs), said he was not one who believed in exploiting the Maori, and he thought tho, general desire was to see. justice done to the Maori. (Hear, hear.) The Maoris had parted ,wi.th a good deal of land, but per capita they had 155 .acres of land, whilst.every European had 60 acres. Some of the Native land might well be leased. He believed the Maoris would increase in numbers, and he was ono who thought this increase should bo welcomed. Referring to endowments, Mr. Luke thought, they should be kept separate. As tho country grew the endowments would-bo a very great asset to meet social reform and education charges. Deferring, to , tho land system,' Mr. Luko considered the House was wasting time discussing the matter of tenure. This was a master that would bo settled in the , years to come. Ho was not tied to tho Government, but. he, wanted to help the Government, as he wanted to help Mr. Masteey. In justice to the Government, however, he thought it was only fair to say that he considered that in tho last year they had shown a considerable amount of enterprise in dealing with the lands of the Dominion. He thought tho development of-the water power of. tho country would lead to a development' of the manufactures of the country. It would also mean lower fares on the railways and cheaper freights. He hoped that the Government would carry out the waterpower scheme, expensive as it would be, but they inusfc sec that one part of tho Dominion was not favoured above another when the scheme was started. Tho telephone system should bo extended in .the country districts. ; : The Education and Other Proposals. As to education he would vote apainst anything which would throw any portion of the'education , administration on thn local authority. ' The system of technical education. was a national one, and the Government should, see that -there was no starving. The young men of NowZealand would have to take the place of captains of industry in the future, and the Govornmont should sec that they hart facilities placed in their way to enable them to become such. H« hoped that tho Opposition would widen their sympathy with tho secondary industries. In tho past six years the iron industry, for instance, had. only increased by 9.6 per cent, and the woollen industry had actually decreased by. 9 per cent. This, was a standing disgrace to tho community. We had the natural products here, and thoro must Ixi something rotten when tho above was tho case in regard to tho woollen industry. He had suggested to tho Prime Minister that a commission should bo set up to inquire into tho state of tho secondary industries throughout tho Dominion. He only wanted two men, say one from tho labour interests and one from the ompJoyers , side. This commission could get into touch with manufacturers and see what was wrong with *Ji» secondary industries. Tho worker of

the Dominion should see that the com : petition ho had to work against was regulated by somo system of tariff.

REMARKS BY MR. ELL. '. Mr. ■ ELL (Christchurch South) prefaced his remarks with some statements on the benefit of Protection. He went on to say that ho hoped that the Government would retain the national endowments. If, as Mr. Massey suggested, tho rural endowments should, be replaced by town endowments, he would like to ask where, for instance, town endowments could be secured iu Wellington. Ho criticised the contents of a letter signed "A. H. Vile" in the "Scotsman." It was, he declared, singularly unpatriotic. New Zealand had, as a matter of fact, (lone more forthe workers than any other country' without hurting any other section of the community. If the Government had not raised the extra taxation last year it would have been necessary for the Government to have raised more money this year. He quoted figures to show the benefits which the people had received as the result of remissions on duties. The land tax was coming from the city lands and not from tho farmers, and he had asked for a return in this connection, which would, he felt convinced, ■ surprise a great number of people. He (was sure that the best system of taxation for the small farmer or the small property 'owner was the system under which he pays on the value of tho land and not on the value of tho improvements. The House then went into Committee of Supply to consider the Estimates. The Hon. J. CAEEOLL moved that progress be reported. No exception was taken to the propcsal. . • When the House resumed it.was agreed to adjourn until this afternoon.