THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 894, 13 August 1910, Page 7

THE HOUSE.

BUDGET DEBATE. ,AN ARDENT FREEHOLDER. When tho House resumed yesterday, Mr. , DILLON (Hawkc's Bay), continuing tho debato on the Budget, reforrud to the remarks by Mr. Brown on tho number'' _of largo estates hold in Hawko's Ba£ Ho said that, these statements w'crti evidently taken froni electioneering literature circulated in 1906. Sincn that time, said Mr.' Dillon, quite a number of the estates had been cut up, .and further settlement was progressing rapidly. Ho proceeded to strongly advocate tho froohold, warning' the leaseholders not to enter upon the orusade they threatened for ' fear they might;not see Parliament after next election. Ho said ho had noticed that Mr. Hogg had declared that a man who held a freehold was a criminal. For ono. he (Mr. Dillon) hoped that ho would always be a,criminal if possession of a few acres was to bi* regarded as a crime. More than onco he had been accused of being a largo land-owner. Why his farm consisted only of 301)0 acres —and he had 12 children, 9 sons and 3 daughters. His span of life would non , be short, sq. that it.would not bo long, before his property would be cut up. What higher gift could a man hand down by way of heritago than, a. few acres of land!' '(Hear, hoars.) By so doing a man was able to. keep his children. out of the poor-, hquso and handed them, something By which they would respect his memory when he was dead and gone. To say that a landholder was a Criminal was al)' "tommyrot." (Laughtor.) Land ,was a glorious heritage to bo able to ■hand down. Ho was proud that he was in that position. (Hear, hoars.)

THE: SUGAR BEET INDUSTRY. ■ . Mr. ; GREENSLADE (Waikato) dealt chiefly with the proposal to establish tho sugar beet industry in his district. 'While every inducement should be' offered for' the .starting of this industry, the Government should • take care that tho interests of the' * State were protected. The Maoris should be encouraged to take up the industry, and so become producers. He agreed with tho suggestion, that prison labour •might be employed. . . -. ■ Mr. M'Laren; Theresa plenty of freo labour. • ■' ' . , ■ Mr. Greenslado said he was not-an advocate for prison labour competing a'gamst,the farmer, hut with proper re : strictions it might be.used. ... MR. JENNINGS OfJ THE LAND , QUESTION. ' Sir. 'JENNlNGS'•■•■'(Taumarunlii) thought ■ that members could deal with no more important subject than finance. In.regard to huge expenditure, so far as public works were concerned, there ■ must : bo some waste. They had it')' however, from ' Mr. Co'shlan that the financial 'arrangements of the Dominion had'been undertaken in a manner that must" be considered satisfactory. As regards'tho land question, ho bolievett in the freehold, with limitation of area., He would make the holder of land for' settlement "sections pay tho present-day' value. It was a difforont matter in con- ; nectioii with heavy- bush and swamp lands. They should bo. compelled to pay only the original value, plus tho difference between 4 per cent, and 5 per. cent., without compound- interest.! It'was now admitted that the-State ■stood to net nothing out of tho : l.i.p. system. The matter of tho classification of lands should not be-16ft to tho surveyors. In some parts of New Zealand the limitation of area was too small. .Knowing,.so hutch as he did, however, of the King Country,' he must say that in numbers of, instances areas much too large 'had been allowed to be taken up. He,' know one' family whose properties how extended for 20 miles. As regards transfers of Crown lands, what ho had formerly stated - ho could now prove. There should bo some system whereby peoplo who disposed, of their Crown .sections should'be prevented , from continuing tho practice, as thore were plenty of deserving peofile who were. anxious to get on the and. .: CRITICISM OF DEFENCE SYSTEM. Hγ. CLABK (Port Chalmers) thought it would be bettor for New Zealand to present ono or two more Dreadnoughts to the British Navy than to increase tho cost of internal defence. As regards the new appointment which had been gained by Colonol Dav'ies, ho wished to say that ho believed New Zealand officers \should not bo allowed to go Home to get further education at tho expense of tlvis country unless they entered into an agreement to givo a certain period of service later in return. If it f were proposed to drill men over the age of 21, and especially in the case of married men, . uniforms should be provided. Touching on tho land question, Mr. Clark said that from a commercial point of view it would be in the interests of the coun ; try to give the'lessees under the 1.i.pl .system the freehold oven if it were. at the original value. . . >-.;.. SPEECH BY HON. R. M'KENZIE. OPPOSITION "SLANCED," THE WATER-POWER PROPOSALS. Tho Hon/lt. M'KENZIE (Minister for Public Works) complained that Mr. Massey had side-tracked • tho real debate by a want of confidence motion. As regards any motion on tho land question, he would tell him that it was never likely to influence many votes. It had beon stated that all tho votes passed Inst year had not been expended. As a matter of fact, -.the appropriations had been over-spent by £37,000. To membors it would also bo news that during tho current year 135 miles of railways would be opened. As regards the retrenchment scheme, ho would like to point out that tho votes in certain Departments which were extending their operations had to be larger. Tho Opposition had no influence on legislation and administration in the House. They wore there to criticise whatever the Government did. (Laughter.) Ho would ask Mr. Mnsspy what Bill had ever been passed at his instance. Referring to- the criticism of Mr. Buchanan, ho would like to deny that the Government over-taxed tho A.M.I'. Society. It would bo remembered also that Mr. Bnchanan had stated that the number of men on tho co-oporative works was reduced Inst winter. Why did ho not mention that at that time a great deal of responsibility in connection with tho construction of public works had beon transferred to tho local

bodies? Then again, Mr. Buchanan had complained that more money was voted'in election years, which was not a fact. • ■ ■ . Grants In Election Years, .Tho votes for roads and bridges for tho past ten years had been as under:— 1901, £521,000; 191)2, £486,000; 1903, £520,000; 1904, £470,000; 1905, £422,0(10; 1006., £632,000; 1907, £631,000; 1908, £6011,000; 1909, £599,000. . Mr. Buchanan: Do those fissures includo votes for mining districts? Mr. M'Kenzie: They don't materially affect the position. ' Continuing his remarks, Mr. Sl'Kenzie said that tho number 'of public buildings erected last year was a record, and there had boon no discrimina-, tion in regard to electorates: In connection with tho local' bodies plural voting would have to be abolished. Tho maintenance and upkeop of roads should bo the duty of local bodies. Any work the local bodies did not wish to undertake would bo done by tho Government. Ho had offered somo grants to tho Patca Connty Council, but it would not touch them unless they were allowed 7} per cent, for expenses: He had not had tho slightest trouble with the local bodies in tho South Island, which were only too glad to get the grants. < It was not expected by him that local bodies should carry on works in tho back-blocks where they got no rates at their own expense. Mr. Pearce: You did in the Patca County. • Water Power. Mr. M'Kenzio (resuming) said tho proposal to borrow £500,000 for waterpower workfc was ono of' tlio greatest proposals that had been Submitted to Parliament since Sir Jtilius Vogel formulated his .public ..works policy. Members had' not ■ grasped the. ■full significance of the proposal. It would benefit tho farming and every section of tlio community, and would benefit, all future generations. .The. subject was the biggest, arid, most important that had ever been, dealt with by..a Parliament! Referring-to the''different' water powers', lie said that tho power at To Anau and Manaponri was sufficient to manufacture 6,000,0001b. of nitrate per annum. Tho member for Wcstland had stated that the Lake Coloridgo scheme would cost £750,000.

Mr. Seddon: That is from Mr. Hay's report. .■'■'' Mr. R. M'Kenzie: His first report; but we have' a report tc say that a primary scheme could .be established for £150,000. Mr. M'lionzie went on to say that tlie surplus power in, connection witli any scheme could be utilised in connection with-.the-manufacture of nitrates, as the process was not an expensivb one. Tho member for Dunedin (Mr. G. M. Thomson) had been in ■ communication with tho Government in this matter-, . and roports from other countries had been obtainod. In tho North Island there were several powers. 'Tliero was a small power in the Hutt. Valley, another at Feathcrston, and also a small ono at Otaki. iii the Rangitikei there was a good power, but tho' best power of all in tho North Island was on' tho Knituna River, flowing into tlio Bay of Plenty. Tho Hon. Mr. " Carroll,: No. WaikaTO-moana. '

Mr. M'Kenssie; No. Them is' a drawback thore. Tho reports state that •tiiere is some uncertainty there because tho water comes from underground, and nobody has yet found out jwliere the outlet is. There were pow'ers available in-New Zealand that would develop • four million horse-power, and at present 250,000 horse-power was suffioient for nil the industries and the railways in New Zealand.

Electrification-of Railways. Tho development of electrical power in connection .with both quartz and alluvial mining would bo: something marvellous, and in regard to railways, tho'time was oloso at hand when they would be worked electrically. It.had already been-decided to' work tho Arthur's Pass section of tho Midland Railway in this .way, ■ when it was ready.. ■ Personally, he believed the Government would bo ablo to j economise greatly ill connection with its undertakings by the use of electricity: They could get from the High Commissioner and other sources all the necessary information on the point. The Next election. In conclusion ho said that tho Opposition were fifteen or twenty years at least behind tho times. . Every innuendo and insinuation mado by thoir members during the session and recess had been dispelled. Ho prophesied that the numbers of tho Opposition would be reduced at the next election. The Hon. R. M'Nnh, he felt sure, would replaco ono of the members or Opposition at next election. (Opposition laughter.) Mr. Massey: You mado a scapegoat of him while ho was away. Mr. M'Kenzie: I am not a prophet or a son of a prophet, hut I am sorry to have to inform you that others will, I think, be replaced also. Mr. Massoy: They won't take Southern rejects. (Laughter.) -\ ' . .' VIEWS OF MR. HARDY. Mr. HARDY (Sehvyn) regretted that Mr. M'Kenzie had gone out of his way to- slang the Opposition. For himself, ho thought that the land question was. tho most 'important which could be touched upon. Government members said that it" was the dairy regulations which put out Mr. M'Nab —as a matter of .fact, it was the land question. If the Government went to the country on the land question, ho honestly bolieved that tho Opposition would beat them. The Minister for Public Works had praised his. own Departments because ho could not-find any members on cither sido to do so. It was a remarkable fact that tho Minister had confined his remarks to water-powor, and had left the Budget severely, alone. Tho Minister spoke about the splendid water-power of the Dominion, but he sat down and did nothing. An ounce of practico was worth a ton of profession. Ho would support goods manufactured in New Zealand, and tho peoplo in the town should go hand-in-hand wjth tho people of tho country. He could not seo how New Zealand was ever going to be a manufacturing country. could not compoto with the Old Country without working longer hours and for less wages. Ho did not want to sco wages reduced. He believed in electricity, and he thought tiie day was not far distant when wo would bo able to use it oh our farms.

HON. A. NCATA ON THE NATIVE PROBLEM. CAN THE BACKS BE FUSED? Tho Hon. A. NGATA said thero was no foundation for the chargo that tho Government had been wasting tho time of the House. Tlio depression of last yoar had passed owing to tho improved prices for produce, and tlio removal of this depression had moved tlio Conservative- party as far away from tho Ministerial hehches as they were in 1906. If thcro was to he a revolution, it had to be. from withili the Liboral ranks, and- not from tho Conservative party. Ho had not heard tho speech of the Native 'Minister last week, lint ho understood it was in the nature of n cyclone which had completely blown away all that had been set up by tho member for Tauranga. Replying to Mr. Field, Mr. Ngata said the Government had taken up tho question of supplying nurses to Maoris so far its tho means 'at their disposal and the material at • hand would allow. Two nurses were now doing good work—ono at Taupo and one on tho West Coast—

and as others became available they would replace somo of the subsidised medical men now working amongst tho 'Maoris. lloverting to the Native policy of Mr. Heme's, Mr. Ngata pointed out that some six years ago Mr. Merries had said the ultimate solution, was an intermingling of races —a new Maori Anpjo-Saxon race, or white race, with a dash of the best coloured blood in tho world. This anticipated by several years the views expressed by him (the speaker) last year in connection with the I'oung Maori Party. The gnnl of the lion, member for Tauranga was similar to that of the Young Maori Party, but after it had been expressed, by the ■Young Mnori Party, a scries of interviews in Auckland proved the opinion there to be against the fusion of blood by marriage. This view, he believed, represented the opinion of the majority of the thinking people of New Zealand. Briefly, tho policy of tho member for Tauranga was to throw the Maori on . his " own resources, which policy differed from. . that of the Leader of tlio Opposition, who had stated that the Maori should be compelled to retain sufficient land from which to mako a living. Mr. ■ Ngata proceeded to outline a series of resolutions tabled by the Native Minister in 1888, but which were nover moved. These provided.-that it was desirable, as far as practicable, that all unnecessary distinction between the inhabitants of this Dominion should be abolished; that the statutes should be such as to obliterate differences between tho races, and that wherever possible there should be complete equality. The Leader of the Opposition tried to make out that he (Mr. Ngata) and the Native Minister wore trying to draw a colour line. Ho could say there.was no .legislation in the New Zealand . statutes which differentiated- between/the Maori and the pakeha-as'suoh. (Hear, hear.) : At this stago the■. debate was adjournpd to 7.3o''p.m. on Tuesday. . .'. .'