THE HOUSE

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 891, 10 August 1910, Page 4

THE HOUSE

FJNANCIAL DEBATED MR. LANO ON THE NATIVE LAND .QUESTION. ,: When the House resumed yesterday, iMr:' LANG. (Manukau),' who continued thedebate on the'Budgct; said that Mr. Carroll's speech on .Friday night was tho best he had ever hoard in tho House. It' was ' remarkable, however, that the statements of both Mr. Car-roll-arid Mr. Ngata were .not supported bj , -members on their own side of the ■House. Mr. Carroll had said he had surveyors all over the country, but it was a pity this activity had not been shown,somo years ago when surveyors were actually..leaving tho country, becauso they could riot obtain work. Mr. Lang referred to tho-able speech -de- , livered by Mr. Herries on tho samb subject'and'-said that if Mr.Horries Native' Minister for the samo period as Mr. ' Carroll there would have been a very different;state of .affairs as far as Europeans and Natives woro .concerned. '.. . . ' .'■"'.. ;

::: Voices: Very. ■." - : . -, ■ . ■ ' ■ , Mr.Massey: A far more, satisfactory state of .affairs.. ... . '.-,■".',■

_ Continuing,. Mr. .Lang , , said, the Natives, were: not so well off as they l should have been if settlement had beeii pushed more vigorously and on better lines. It was true, as Mr. Carroll had said, that the Main Trunk townships had progressed in a wonderful, manbut, that was not. because of tho Native Department, but ,in spite of it. If settlement had taken place along proper lines the towns would have been ten times larger than they were now.

Townships Seething with Discontent. .The townships were seething " with discontent at the manner in which they had been hampered and. the. obstacles' that had been put :in'theirrivay. : New Zealand itself had gone ahead)--but not so fast as it would, had it ha"d a better Government. The timo had .arrived when no land should remain unoccupied m Now Zealand, and the Government was forced to yield to the pressure which had.been placed on it. No Government could remain in office and continue the policy'adopted in past years. Mr. Lang quoted from a speech by the late Hono Heke to show that in many cases .the Natives' wcro not so weil treated by the Government, as they were by private individuals. "■ A case of this kind-which had come under Mr. Lang's own. notice was that in which a private purchaser gave the Natives £8 per acre for timber growing on it! The Government took another block with equally valuable timber, but nearer the railway line, and gave only three shillings,an: acre for.•■it:., .This was the kindly Government which professed to look so well"-" after''tile interests of the' Natives. ..The: next point ■touched on by Mr. Lang was the difficulty in collecting rates ' on Native land. He read the opinions of 1 a.number'of gentlemen who attended a conference in Auckland on the matter. Mr. Jennings, M.P., had urged that there should bo no more "dilly-dallying." Mr. C. H. Poole, M.P., had said a "good deal of the obstruction was,'duo to the Minister for Native Affairs; who was most apathetic in all his actions." speech' by hon; d. buddo. /The Hon. D. BUDDO (Minister for Internal Affairs) confessed that he.had no experience of the settlement of Native lands in the North Island. He entirely disagreed with Mr. Lang when he contended that the Natives should be allowed to deal with their lands as they liked, for if that had been the rule the Natives by this time would have been penniless. Some people did not "understand that in many blocks of Native lands were so many owners that individualisation would not be possible-rwould not warrant.tho cost of surveying. Natives' should not be denied similar assistance to that which was given to Europeans. Tho Maori had been generous in the past, and he should be treated generously in the fu-

two. Touching upon the umvatoring of the Piako Swamp, lie asked whether thoro was any other country that would have undertaken such an important work. Ho denied a statement by Mr. Massoy that thoro had boon less small settlement last year than in previous years. Ho for one strongly objected to settling the back-blocks if encouragement was not given in tho way of roads and railways. To carry out sucli a policy would, however, necessitate further borrowing, for iho work? could not be done out of revenue. As regards tho co-operative system, ho said it had been of great advantage, for it had given a lot of employment and tho State had received value for its money. Frequently during the debate some recent remarks by a bank director had been quoted. In his opinion they were in the nature of after-dinner remarks, , and wero considered of no consequence except to politicians who wanted to havo a shot at tho Government. Referring to the superannuation funds, ho declared that there was no justification for tho allegation of instability which had been made in regard to them; It was not fair of Mr. Herdman to assert that the Government was not giving sufficient encouragement to industries. , As a matter of fact, thero had been steady growth of the industries of the Dominion. MR. BUCHANAN ON TAXATION. : Mr. BUCHANAN (Wairarapa), said that in New Zealand the land' tax,. the irfcomo tax, tho death, duties tax, and other taxes wero higher thaji in Australia. Taken as a whole tho taxation in New Zealand amounted to' £4 11s. 10d. per capita, as against £3 7s. 2d. in Australia. ; The increase of Australian taxation up to that of New Zealand would represent over 5 millions. Ho instanced the taxation .of tho A.M.P. Society, which had been of immonse benefit to' tho Dominion, Whilst tho taxation.on that society.for the whole of Australia and including /jondon averaged cightpence per cent., the taxation in New Zealand amounted to no less than-2s. sd. per cent. If the public works were as reproductiveas was claimed, it would' not bo necessary to levy such heavy taxation. In regard to. the co-operative system, Mr. -Buchanan said that thero could be no doubt but that it had been too costly, lie hoped that the principlo of handing over as many votes as possible to the local bodies for expenditure would bo continued. Many years had passed since tho late Mr. Seddon' promised a (Local Government Bill, but such a ! measure had never materialised. It was quite'clear that tho Government had no rear sympathy with the settlers of tho Dominion. This was , due to tho fact that they had very little knowledge to apply in regard to the development of tho "country. Mr. Buchanan went on to say that ho was unablo to see where the Government; had effected anything like as much retrenchment as was professed. If . tho Government wished relianco to be placed on its statements it should give the details, as was done by tho Atkinson Government when it undertook a scheme- of retrenchment. • ' . Retrenchment Figures Wantca. Why did.not tho present Government adopt a similar straightforward return? He hoped that befpro tho session was over Government members would assist tho. Opposition .members in forcing tho Government to mako known details of its scheme. It was his opinion that .further, reductions in certain 'directions were necessary.' Dealing with the land question,. Mr. Buchanan declared that there would be no re-aggregation if the freehold were allowed all Crown tenants. Mr. Buchanan went, on to discuss whether tho present.Ministry had.any real sympathy with tho settlers.. Ho would like to ask tho Hon. T. Mackonzio if ho realised tho serious task ho had undertaken "to convert his colleagues to the freehold," and "to knock tho Socialists .and Single-Taxers among them on the head." He wished emphatically to deny a statement rnade.by a Government member to tho oifect that tho sottiers .were better represented on tho Govornnient side than oij tho Opposition side.' . : : , ; MR.HOCAN: 1 'A PARTY WRANCLE.' Mr. HOGAN (Wanganui), said it was vory regrettable that the debate had been allowed to drift 'into a party wrangle. The public dobt had increased and was increasing, .but the country was getting, for,, the .-debt-assets that wore paying their own way, and did not mean a farthing's* additional taxation. Before the rate of taxation was quoted the assets should be quoted that could be set up against the public debt and tb&_ taxation per head.. It was a suro indication of progress to do as the Government had done, and reduce taxation on tho workers, while increasing it on thoso who were able to pay. He thought even the Opposition would agreo that it was right to tax thoso who could most easily pay, and tho absentee who spent no money in the country. Mr. Hogan quoted the Hon. W. A. Watt, Treasurer of Victoria, as saying that New Zealand, the country which had gone furthest in land taxation, had oasily out-distanced Victoria with regard to rate of increase in agricultural holdings and overseas trade. Hfa thought.that Mr. Watt's speech was a refutation of many statements made by the "croakers" who decried New Zealand; There was niuqh in the .Financial Statement on which he could compliment the Prime Minister. Tho unauthorised expenditure was tho lowest for fifteen years, and only about a third of what-was allowed by law. The present Administration had dono more for backblocks settlers than tmy- previous Administration. ! He! regretted that the money spent in acquiring land for settlement was riot so , much as in tho previous year. He -urged that the ■ Government should purchase , all tho land possible under the Act for this purpose. Mr. Hogan referred to the land question from tho leasehold noint of view, and complimented Mr., Herries on his able speech on the Nativo land policy. Praise was given to tho work dorid by the Aotca Maori Land Board.

MR. FIELD SATISFIED. Mr. FIELD (Otaki) claimed that the Government had demolished every attack and asporsjon made against them by the Opposition. Native legislation during the last few years at any rate had shown solid progress. It was not strictly true that only wealthy man' could buy Native |land. Some safeguards and restrictions wero necessary for the protection of the Native. Tho proposal to give' ■' holders of: the loase-in-perpetuitv tho option of the freehold was no moro than a fair business proposition. He considered that tho lessees-in-perpotuity had got the- softest thing in land tenure, and were riot entitled to consideration, hut in the interests of the State they should bo allowed to take tho fee simple at tho original valuation. He was a beliovor in endowments, but not in back-block endowments. Ho was satisfied that no man would ho got to clear land of noxious weeds unless lie lind the fee simple of his lands. The leaseholder would boat tho landlord every time. They must not entirely complain that they had not,-got further ahead with land legislation. Tho present law in regard to land settlement was a great improvement on past legislation. Ho bplioycd that the renewable leasts was infinitely profernblo to the leaso-iii-per-petuity, and ho did not want to put anything else in the placii of tho renewable lease system. The-'Government should acquire an area of land subject ti sand-drift for experimental purposes. ■Ho hoped legislation would bo introduced this session with the object of protecting tlio timber industry. An appeal board was required with reference to tho grievances of mental hospital attendants. Ho would have liked to have seen the retrenchment scheme

carried out by slower degrees. Steps should bo taken to secure tlio registration of tlio births and deaths of Natives. .

At 10.40 p.m. the ' debate was adjourned on the motion of Mr. Buxtou (Geralduic) and tho Houso rose.