PARLIAMENT IN SESSION.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 857, 1 July 1910, Page 4

PARLIAMENT IN SESSION.

STATE MONOPBLIES. ' INSURANCE BUSINESS. AN INTERESTING DISCUSSION. NORTH AUCKLAND RAILWAY ROUTE INCOME TAX TROUBLE. STATEMENT BY THE PREMIER. Parliamentarians, had'a very busy , day yesterday. In the Legislative Council the debate on the Aiidress-in-lteply was commenced. The House was engaged most of the afternoon upon nn important debato on the question as to whether the State should take over tho entire control of the accident, insurance , 'business of the Dominion. Then an Imprest Supply Bill was brought down, but its progress was hindered by a number of amendments—one as regards the loute of tho North* Auckland railway, another relating to the delay of the Government in supplying . returns ordered by the House, and a third arising from the neglect of the Government to obey tho instruction of the House in regard to the grievance which the Farmers' Distributing Company has against the State Coal Department—but all were defeated, and eventually, tlie Bill was read a third time shortly before I o'clock this ■morning.' The members of the Legislative Council then assembled and put 'the Bill through all-its stages without, "discussion.

THE COUNCIL. , THE ADDRESS-IN-REPLY. , DEVELOPING THE BACK-BLOCKS. The Hon. T. K. MACDONALD (Wellington), in moving tho Address-in-Eeply in the Legislative Council, stated that the reference to tho development of backblocks was particularly pleasing and ho . trusted that the necessity for improving communication with tho back-blocks . settlements would be met. The AttorneyGeneral had recently been through some of the back-blocks and no doubt had personal experience of the different trials and dangers whjch the back-block settlers have to undergo. What was wanted was the thorough roading of tho back--blocks and it was quite impossible to 'get settlement of any'value to the country unless this question was dealt with, The Attorney-General: "We spent very much more last year in this direction ■ than in any previous year.

Mr. Macdonald: Well; whatever you have spent, I venture to say tho Government should have spent' more. 'What the back-block settlers endured was something awful: ■

The; Attorney-General said ho would impress strongly upon his colleagues the necessity to have this work pushed along. Sir. "Macdonald went on to refer to the improvement in the finances and industry of . tho Dominion. The iron industry, however, was. never in a lower condition than'.'-ht present. '

r Native Lands. Deferring to Native lands Mr. Macdon- , aid said this, above all questions,, def rnanded closer attention. This should be i done without any fiddling.as to the freef, hold "or leasehold tenure. One of the drawbacks we had suffered from was the division between the North and South. The South, however, -Aid not understand the Native land question and failed io grasp, the importance of it to the ■ • whole of New Zealand. He wa.s afraid the- Nativo Laiid Act of last session was not going to do all that was expected of it.

The Railways. An important question in tho matter of settlement was the question of improved facilities for transit.. The Minister for Railways could easily take an example; from America, liis objcct was not going to be gained by refusing facilities between town and country. The Hon. Mr. Millar did not appear quite to realise that he must develop the railways in a very much more strenuous manner than he had done in the past. Referring to altered railway services, Mr. Macdonald dealt particularly with a caso which had come under his notice in the M.ungaroa Valfsy, where tho value of land had teen seriously affected. He knew of a 200-acre farm valued at .£SOOO, which had dropped to ,£IOOO in consequence of the loss of railway facilities. When, land'was opened up by! tho Government there should bo a guarantee that the roads should bo formed within threo years.

Loc?l Government Reform. The Hon. W. BEEIIAN (Auckland), in seoonding the Address-in-lieply, said ho disagreed with, the previous speaker in his strictures on tho Maori landowners. The Natives had not over-much left, and even what they had was gradually .becoming available for settlement. As an instance, the recent Native conference at Wai>,hi showed that it was hoped that some GOO,OOO acres of good land in the Waikato district would ho thrown open. The Government would 110 doubt' purchase some of this, hut whether under freehold or leasehold ho did ■ot care, so long as it was got in a roni;, firm hold. As to railway matrs, he believed the Minister would run lins;' wherever they could bo made to ■y. It would be unreasonable to exit anything else. Mr. Beehan com,nd«d tho programme outlined by tho wornmont, especially in tho matter of /csil government reform. This question lad been discussed for years and years, nd he hoped that this session the Govrnmont would keep its word. He bcieved the abqlition of tho old provincial auncils was a. gravo mistake. Though '; might" not be possible to return •> this system now, there should be somo whereby the money required for 11 local works would be found by. tho 'eneral Government, and handed over to pme body like the old provincial councils, which would be charged with tho . 'duty of spending it to tho best advantage. This would relieve Parliament very much of its present "roads and bridges" work. Tho. country should have a national Parliament, and hand back all these small matters to the provincial councils. He trusted that the Government's humanitarian legislation would be passed. The water power scheme seemed to bo very good, and likely to produce splendid results. He hoped that tho proposed Libel Law would also be passed.

Weakness in Native Land Act. The Hon. W. W. M'CA UTILE (Auckland) commended the Native Land Act jf Inst session, hut drew attention to ono weakness in it. That was that European* often found it impossible to secure clear titles to land purchased for the Natives. Tho proposed expenditure nimn backblocks roading would return at least tentold in results. Local government reform was most important, but lie did not ap. prove of the suggestion to do away with the small local bodies and substitute largo ones. On the land question he declared that he did not care whether the. tenure was freehold or leasehold, so long as it was good. The : adjournment of tho debate was moved by the Hon. J. T. Paul (Otago) and the Council rose at 4.50 p.m.

IMPREST SUPPLY. The Council mot again at 11 p.m. to receive the Imprest Supply Bill, l)«t as it had'not passed the Lower House a furtlier . adjouTiuneht W'as'' made until 12.55, when tho Bill was received ajid passed through all its stages.

THE HOUSE. PRIVATE MEMBERS' BILLS. When tho llouso resumed its sittings at 2.30 p.m. yesterday, notice was given of intention to ask leave to introduce a number of Bills, including tho following: Half Holiday for Miners in Gold and .Coal Mines (lion. A. E. Guinness). Elective Upjjcr House Bill (Sir Win. Steward). . ... National Sick anil Accident Insurance Bill (Hon. A. It. Guinness). Gaming Aet, 190S, Amendment Bill, 1910, and Bookmakers' Abolition-Bill (Air. Newman). . Rale of Goods Amendment . Bill (Mr. Witty). Mutual Insurance Amendment Bill (Air. Dive). JohnsonviJl9 School Reserves Bill (Air. Luke). Marriage Act Amendment Bill (Sir W. Steward). ' .'. -\ : New Zealand Society of Musicians Bill (Mr. Sidcy). .'/ . Noxious Weeds Act Amendment Bill (Air. Field). Repeal of the Second Ballot (Air. Fisher). ACCIDENT EMSURANCE BUSINESS. STATE URGED TO SECURE MONOPOLY.'. PBEJIIER DECLINES Tn&'PROPOSAL.

Quito unexpectedly an interesting debate on' tho ..question of the control of accident insurance in the-;Douiinou was precipitated whilst the." Prime .Minister (Sir Joseph Ward) was placiiig" before Parliament the. annual returns in connection with those accident insurance companies doing business in tho Dominion. Mr, T. E. TAYLOR said 'tliat" the tremendous number of such retuniS raised the question as to whether the Government should not conduct the whole of this class of insurance business. "" If it did so, it would ease the public of.-.a siderable burden in this direction. Ho understood that during the past few weeks some of the 'accident companies, had reduced their , charges by' one-third." "When these, companies first started.i.-thero' was something novel about ithe.business; but now it.had proved to bs a very profitable class of business. ' A few years ago tho State had very wisely entered into tho fire insurance bnsiness. It was true that tho State had not mado much profit out of it; but he had it on the best of authority that tho. public had gained at least <£125,000 per annum since the Government started the State Fire Office in connection with premium charges.

How the People Would Gain. By entering into the business, the State would bo able to act as a check on tho rapacity, or greed, or whatever, one ;night call it, of groups of companies. So keen were companies to get policies that they gave almost tho whole of the first year's premium by way of commission. If tho commission charges and other charges could be 1 saved ,to the insurers, it would mean a big reduction in tho amount of the premiums or a big increase in bonuses.

.Mr. LAUEENSON (Lyttelton) urged that not a penny of Government money should be lent to persons who would not insure with the State Office, -Ho knew that members of the Houso had been "got at" and had lent themselves to . a ring which was trying to break" down the State Fire Insurance Department. Mr. Laurenson advocated universal >State annuities, and would even go to the length of making them compulsory.

Mr. HARDY (Selwyn) pointed out that private companies had to take risks the Government would not take.

Mr. WRIGHT (Wellington South) said the Government would only take good fire risks, and other companies had to take good and bad. The Government Life Insurance Office was good, but ho knew of others that were as good, and even better. The bonuses in private offices were bigger.

Mr. Massey Opposes State Monopoly. Mr. MASSEY said tho suggestion put forward by Mr. Taylor and others did .not surprise him, because these gentlemen believed in monopolies—at least, in State monopolies. lie did not believe in Stato monopolies any raoro. than he believed in trusts and combines. A State monopoly was likely to be as injurious as private monopolies, if not more so. If tho private insurance companies were wiped out, in a very short time the rates would go up by at least fifty per cent. The rates for fire insurance had certainly gone down, but this was partly attributable to the Mutual Insurance Act.. Mr. Massey also pointed out that tho State Fire Insurance Office was working at. a loss, and he; objected to taxpayers being penalised for the benefit of those insuring with the' State Office. He also took strong exception to tho proposal that money should not be lept to those who, were not prepared to insure with tho State. This was coercion which the House would not countenance. There was no parallel between tho arrangement the State Fire Insurance Office had attempted to mako with State borrowers and that made by private companies with those who borrowed from them.

Mr. HOGG (Mastertcm), in tho course of his remarks 'on tho subject, declared that there could be no such thing as an injurious monopoly by the Stale. He went on to allege that private companies were bleeding the people, and ..spoke in favour of a general Stateinsurance monopoly.

Encourage.Foreign Capital. Mr. HERDMAN (Wellington North) thought that the doctrino enunciated by Mr. Hogg was jiighly pernicious. Tho Government should offer every inducement to people to invest their money in legitimate businesses in New It was ridicnlous to arguo that New Zealand had not benefited by tho enterprise of various companies. He did not believe in trusts; but he did think that legitimate business should be encouraged. Whilst at .Narobi not lons* ago, ex-President )?oosevelt had (it would be remembered) advised tho people to attract men with capital for investment. Mr. Ilordman went on to say that New Zealand people wcro calling out about the interference of tho Stato preventing the investment of capital. Only the other day the president of the Bank of Now Zealand had stated that there was ample rotfricy '•fft'r investment in New Zealand, but the people would not invest it because they had come to the conclusion that they could not invest it in enterprise' for fear of State interference. '

Sir Joseph Ward: Ho did not say so. Mr. lferdman: Well, at any rate, ho said that there was want of confidence. Mr. Davey: Ho you erdorse his'statement?

Mr. 1-Terdinan: I do. Position of State Borrowers. In conclusion Mr. Herdman objected to the demand by (he Government that those who obtained advances from it should insure the properties in the State office. Mr. Witty: Private companies do tho samo. Mr. Herdman: Generally speaking, mortgage deeds provide only that properties shall insure with a reputable office.

MR. M'LAUEN (Wellington East) said that "State monopoly" was a contradiction of terms. The question was not a question of monopoly, but of economy. Bv preventing the competition among private companies they would prevent waste, and State action would result In economy. Ho strongly supported tho proposal of Mr. Taylor. MR. MALCOLM (Clutlia) could not believe that a Government monopoly was always most economically carried on, in fact they were often more expensive than private enterprises, lie asked whether it was not' a fact that the State Lifo Insurance Department had been induced to lend a largo sum of money to tho Government at a lower rate of interest than private life insurance companies would lend. Tb« i?rimc Minister: Oh, nonsense.

11 It. "WITTY (Riccarton) said the Statu had a perfect right to make those who borrowed from it insuru with it. lie read correspondence to show that a private institution had done tho Mine thing.

Prime Minister Won't be Drawn. The PUIAIE MINISTER- said that, the debate was intended to draw a policy speech from him, but he would only deal with a few of the mat tors touched upon. Thi> Government had always recognised that tliero should be full scope for legitimate! private enterprise. He might mention th-at tho Government JJfe insurance Department was not witli a view of annihilating tlie other offices, but only to secure that not more than rcatonablc charges should bo made for that class of insurance in New Zealand. The Stale Fire Insurance Department was crervted to bring about a reduction in tho charges for that class of business. When it was sfarted various companies greatly reduced their rates, with a view of. annihilating it. Other offices would not effect reinsurances wiili it. Ho could assure tlieni, however, that it was here to stay, for the public knew that it conferred a great indirect benefit on the public. He wished to call attention to the difficult position w-hicli tho State Office occupied in this matter. If any company had to hold on to the whole of its risks, and had a very large number of them, the time would inevitably arise when such an office would bo swept out of existence. It would i>ever do for the Government to listen to (hose who urged that tho Department should not get a eU\-s of business which was necessary. (o keep tho Department going, but should let the business go into the anus of those companies which would not insure with them. If the Government were to accept such advice ii might just as well put up tho notice: "State Fire Insurance Department for sale." He might also mention that the Government Department hod been all along willing lo give reinsurances ami to take reinsurances. .Any impartial person in insurance circles would state privately that it, would mean th-o destruction of the office if "it burned tho candle at both ends."

Would Involve Enormous Responsibilities. If the Government undertook the whole of the accident insurance in Neit Zealand it would meaa that it would be undertaking enormous responsibilities. He was one of those, however, who believed that a monopoly which the Stftte had was not in the samo category as a monopoly held by private people, lie had in his mind a* fact which was probably unknown. The whole of the insurance companies, including the Government Department, had refused to undertake tho risk of insuring a number of nwn employed by a large (inn of contractors carrying out a work for the .Government, as it was considered too great. The State would refuse to continue the business on a rate which was known to he unpayable and would Taiso them generally. These huge risks were now spread between 15 or 20 companies. The Government would not lxs justified in taking tho enormous risk without the people knowing all about it. More was required than a mere affirmative statement that the State should take over all accident insurance risks.

IMPREST SUPPLY BILL. AN AMENDMENT. THE NORTH AUCKLAND RAILWAY. An Imprest Supply Bill for .£713,000 was then introduced by Governor's Message.

Upon tho motion to go into Committee of Supply,

Mr. MAN DIOR (Jlarsden) moved an amendment to the ell'ect that tho House disapproves of tho proposed deviation of the authorised route of the North of Auckland railway unless deviation is inquired into by a commission set. up for tho purpose, and- an Authorisation Bill dealing with tho question is submitted to Parliament. « Sir Joseph Ward: Is it proposed to discuss this matter on this Bill? Mr. Ifander: I do. • Sir Joseph; I never heard of such a thing; i(; is unparalleled in the history of this Parliament.

Mr. Massey; Oh, no. It has many times.

Sir Joseph; The proper time would have been on the Public Works Estimates or tho Financial Debate.

* Mr. Masse/: It is within his rights. Sir Joseph: It may bo within his rights, but it is a very wrong tiling even if it is. (Laughter.)

Mr. Mander went on to say that surely the onus of showing that the altered vouto would be shorter and better lay on those who desired tho change. This both the people along what was known as tho western route and the Minister for Public Works, had failed to do. If the Minister would set up a Koyal Commission and allowed evidence to bo called ho would bo satisfied. For the Government to go on with the route which was now proposed would be to perpetrate an unconstitutional thin'g.' Ho held' that to alter the route as was proposed would be to cast a reflection on the previous Minister tor Public Works.

A Rumour. Mil. PEAItCK (Patea) who seconded tho amendment said that he had no doubt but that the original routo was tho best. Tho least that the Minister could have agreed to was that a royal commission should be set up in regard to the matter. To his mind the main point was whether a Minister could alter a routo without reference of the matter to Parliament. Ho had hoard' a rumour in Auckland that the present member for Kaipara gained the seat as a result of a promise that the route would be altered.

Sir Joseph: AVho is supposed to have made that statement?

Mr, Pearcc: It is being made in Auckland.

Sir Joseph: By'whom? Mr. Pearcc: 1 was not informed who was responsible for tho statement. The Hon. 11. MMCenzie: I want to know who told you. Mr. Pearce: That is my business; such statements are not going to do either the Government or the country any good. In conclusion iTr. l'earce said that the route had evidently been altered for some reason which tho Ministry and tho Minister for Public Works entirely declined to disclose.

Mr. .T. C. THOMSON (Wallace) said it was absurd for members to bo called upon to pronounce judgment on an ox parte statement, Ho also deprecated tho moving of such an amendment to a Bill of the kind. It was like using a sledgehammer to drive in a tack.

An Attraction to Trade. Mr. STALMVOBTHY (Kaipara) said ninety per cent, of the cattle and tho trade would conio from the west of t.ho lino, and three times the population would oomo from the samo side. When evidcnco was called by tho committee, the evidence representing the point of view of t.ho western side had not been fully given. Sir W. Hall-Jones had heen deceived in the matter by the engineers, who "got his ear/' Another matter which had influenced Kir U". H:dl-Jones yas a map which showed a kink which did not exist. When tho Hon. Mr. M'Kenzie succeeded Sir W. ITall-Jones, the settlors expressed their confidence Ift him, and recognised him as a poetical man, and 'they found this when he went to tho district. That decision had gone to the west, and it was not lair to ask for a Hoyaj Commission. Mr. Marnier had been willing to accept a compromise at the end of Inst session, which wuuld havo added .C 15.000 to the cost of (he line, and 21 miles to the length of the journey Auckland.

In Favour of a Commission. Mr. LANG (Manukau) asked why Mr. Stallworthy was afraid of a Royal Commission, which would consist of disinterested persons. It was absolutely necessary to have a line which would allow the extreme north to reach the extreme bouth in the shortest possible time. The llinister: That's what you aro going to'get. Mr. POOLE (Auckland AVc.if) said thai, he had been over the north of Auckland line, and he was convinced that the western rouie was the desirable route. Sfr. .f. BOLLARD (Eden) said tno western route opened up one of the be.it waterways in the Dominion, and tho railways could not compote with water. Ife thought a Ivoval Commission-should be set up. If evidence was taken by t.ho Commission Jw >vas sure qver.vbody would

1» satisfied with the decision. Bo hoped the Minister lvuiilil agree to set up ;i Commission.

Remarks by Mr. Fowlds. The Hon. Geo. FOWLDS paid ho hail first boon prejudiced against the western route, but was now satisfied that it was tho right one. Tlio whole trouble arose over tlio flying; survey made in the early days when the conditions were not i lie samo as they wcro now and tlio bulk of the engineers who bad dealt with the matter since had been influenced bv that original survey. There was tho " samo authority before Parliament for tlio construction of tho present lino as there was for the eastern line which had been deviated from. The. people of this country should bo thankful for tho decision tlio Minister for Public Works had made.

.Ail..A. K. 61,0VEE (Aaickland Central) said he had given a promise on the platform that he would support the selling up of a lioyal Commission, and ho would keen it.

Mr. .MALCOLM (Clutha) emphasised tho tact that a point at issue was whether the House should become subservient to the will of a Minister. Jlo supported tlio setting up of a Commission.

"A White Elephant." Mr. T. 35. TAYLOR- (Christcluirch North) urged that the water carriage in tho north would make the North Auckland _ railway' a .white elephant. If wagering were permissible ho would wager that in 501) years one could not get private capital to undertake the construction of this line, which tho logrolling of the Auckland members was trying to get tho country to undertake. No group of business men would build that line. The Auckland members, said Mr. Taylor, had always been notorious for parochial feeling. Mr. Taylor went on to urgo that railway communication from Gisbornc- inland was desirable as. last as possible. The land that such a lino would open up would carry a dense population and carry it comfortably. Hon. R. H'Kenzie Explains.

Tho Hon. I?. M'KENZIE pointed out thatt tho matter had been before I lie Ilouso before he took office.• Before Sir W. ItallJones left lie ordered a survey to bo made. When he joined the Ministry he was asked to look into the railway, and he (lid so, having no personal interest, in the matter. Ho went over both routes with the engineers, n.nd studied tham, and lie decided that it was necessary to complete the survey commenced under Sir W. Hall-Jones. After some five months he received the necessary data. He would take responsibility for everything ho had done. It had all heen as open as daylight. Ho altered nothing until ho had the opinion of the Crown Law Gfiice. If the works were stopped 500 men would he thrown out of work. It wa.s his opinion that there was nothing for a Royal Commission to inquire into, for tho deviation was approved ill .Tuna last, ajid work commenced there straight away. He believed it was a fact that a surveyor who helped to' lay off tho line had land interests, birt he was taken off the work as soon as it became known. Vested interests were tho greatest curse in connection with the laying out of railways in New Zealand. The object! of the Opposition asking for a Royal Commission was to throw discredit on tho Government He considered that he had done his duty in regard to the matter. If the amendment were carried it would mean that the 000 men employed on tlio works woidd have to be taken off tomorrow.

Will the Line Pay? _ Mr. R. A. WRIGHT (Wellington South) asked if it was not a fact that a promise to alter the route from east to west was responsibly for the return of Mr. Slalhvorlhy.

Mr. Stallwort.hy: No; it was tho dairy regulations!

Jl'r. Wright urged that tho Government should liave some independent evidence that the railway would pay. He would not support any railway in any part of New Zealand that was'going to be a further drain on tlio people of New Zealand.

The - PRIME MINISTER, said ho thought that the name of the person who was responsible for tho statement about the alleged promise should be GREENSLADE (Wadkalo) and DIVE '(Egmont) also spoke. Upon a division, Uk- amendment was rejectc-d by 10 votes to 2-1.

The Division List. For the amendment (21).—Messrs. Andtison, Bollard, Buchanan, Buick, Dive, Duncan J., Frascr. Glover, Gutlu'ie, lUrdy, Ilcrdnuui, Hi no, Lang, Malcolm, Mandcr, Massey, Myers, Newman, Jioswerthy, Pearce, Philiipps, Scott, Wriglit.

Against, the amendment (-Ul).—Messrs. Arnold, Biuldo, Buxbn, Carroll, Clark, Cc.lvin, Craigie, Davey, Dillon, Duncan Hon. 'J*., Ell, Field, Forbes, Fowlds, Graham, Grcenslado, Hall, Hanan, Ilogan, Hogg, Jennings, Lauvenson. Macdonald, Jl'lCenssio If., Mackenzie T., Millar, Ngata, Pnrata, Poland, Poole, Reed, Moss, liussell, Peddon, Sidey, Stall worthy, Steward, Taylor E. H., Ward, Witty. Upon the motion to go into"CommHl.ce of Ways and Means,

Mr. MAXDEII (Marsden), referring again to the North Auckland railway deviation, said that he wan sorry that (ho vote of the House had gone as it had. What ho also regretted was that there had been so much misrepresentation in the llouso on the subject. "If," he .'aid. "Mr. Stalhvorthv, M.l', for Kaipara, could substantiate some of his statements, I would give as much as .tL'ftOO to any charity." Mr. MASSEY said that lie did not pretend to say which was tile better route, but tho Hon. E. Mitchelson, a former Minister for Public Works, although he had big interests along tin; western route, favoured tlio eastern route.

Delay in Supplying Returns. When tho motion was put for the second reading of the Bill, Mr. Massey referred ti? the fact that a number of returns which had been ordered by tho House had not been supplied. He wanted to know why Parliament had been ignored. Mr. Massey went on to mention that among the returns sought was one in regard to Ministers' travelling expenses, but it had not been furnished.

The Prime Minister: It was never refused.

Mr. Massey: Then why lias tho return not been prepared, and brought, forward. Mr. Massey said the only conclusion he could conio to was that t.he Government was afraid to place the return before Parliament mid the ..country. Most of their time tho Ministers appeared to be running round the country electioneering. Tho Ministerial carriage was hitched on for tho opening of all. sorts of trivial buildings, etc., and tho Ministers and thair sisters, cousins, and aunts wont to tho gathering. A banquet and deputations followed, and a press telegram announced in duo course that the speech delivered lyas the 'most interesting over given in the district. It seemed to him that tho government of tin's country had degenerated into a farce, and it was just, as well that tho public should know what was going on. Mr. Massey: Well, I intend to inovo as an amendment as follows:—"That when returns are ordered by the House such retu.rns shall be la.id before Parliament as soon as possible." TJpon a: division the amendment was rejected by ;19 votes to 21.

Tho Incomo Tax Department. AVhilst the Bill was under discussion at it )at-er stage, Mr. Massov said (hat he could not lot tho occasion pass without mentioning (hi; 1 rouble which had taken place in connection with tho Incomo Tax Department. "Wo wore told after (he first commission on tho subjcct," ho said, "tliat lawsuits wore ponding, and Parliament: allowed tho matter to drop in the meantime. I'he Department did prosecute a well-known firm, but alihough, according to 'the man in tho slrctd,' oilier firms and private individuals were implicated, 110 other actions wore brought. Th-.-n, through the medium ol the press, members learned of another commission consisting of heads of Departments. As a result of this commission, two officials of the Department have broil asked to resign. No inforination on tho subject has however been placed before Parliament by the Prime Minister. 1 think in this connection dial the Prime .Minister is treating tho unfairly, it is not fair either to (he House or the country; v>r what has happened in comioelion with tho Department is causing a feeling of unrest. The only way to allay it would Im for I lie Prime Minister to U-ll the " rfonso" life' truth ill regard lo the matter—aiiylhim; would be belter than ihc jja'jejii, uiyaia".

factory slate of feeling. I sincerely bono that liis answer will Iw satisfactory; if it, is not, it will bo this duty of members to come back to tlio subject at tho nt-xt opportunity."

Who Shall be the Masters? Upon the motion for the third reading of the Bill, Mr. MASSEY moved: "That when an item on the Estimates is reduced as an indication to tho Government that the Committee of Supply is of a certain opinion, such reduction shall bo taken as an instruction to tho Executive flint it should ho complied with accordingly." Ho went on to say that if, would be remembered that the House decided last session that the dispute between the State Coal Department and the -Farmers' Distributing Company should be brought into Court or be submitted to arbitration. What had been done? Absolutely nothing. The decision of Parliament had been ignored; it bad been treated with ecu tempt. Vov himself, he vas going to see that the responsibility was placed on the Government. Such a resolution of tho Ho'jso should bo taken as an instruction to the Government to adopt, a curtain course of action, and it should be complied with to the very letter.

The Hon. G. FOWLDS said it was quite possible that by a snatch vote Parliament might carry a resolution which the Executive could not legally carry out. Mr. BUCHANAN (Wairarapa) asked who was to decide whether the deliberate action of Parliament was illegal. Where would that sort of tiling end?

Tho Hon. G. FOWLDS suggested that the Audit Department might, in some cases, have something to say iu regard to some matters.

The MINISTER for PUBLIC WOUKS said that in the result members would be surprised to find how large a proportion of the money voted had been spent on roads and public works.

The amendment was rejected by 30 votes to 22.

Statement by the Prime Minister. Tho PRIME MINISTER said that, if one of the amendments had been carried it would have meant that the salaries and wages in connection with the Public Service could not have been paid to-mor-row. That was one reason why members had had to negative the amendments. He was very surprised that Mr. Marnier should have chosen such an occasion for bringing his amendment, which related only to the route of a railway. Indeed he wished to protest' against such an innovation. He went on to defend the Government's action iu regard to the Crown Suits Act. He was not going to admit of a system which would allow persons to mako money by speculative proceedings against a- State Department. Tlio country had to 1)8 guarded against the. speculative lawyer, and proper provision would be made notwithstanding any pressuro that might be brought. When the legislation came down it would bo sure to reecivo the careful consideration of members of the House. Mr. Field, who moved tho motion which had been alluded to, was informed that tho matter was under consideration.

More About the Taxes Department. Touching upon the trouble in tho Land and lncoino Tax Department, ho said he would make a statement to the House at an earlier date. He had, however, no intention of disclosing tho dealings of private peoples with the Department, but iie would place what he could with reference to the matter before the House. There were various rumours—so ho believed—but he would not make any disclosures to which ho was not entitled to do on that account. If it were necessary, he would refer to those rumours. Some people declared that they were in possesion of certain information; they had no right to bo. He intended to refer at a later date to the cases of those officials who had been asked to resign. The House would not; bo misled, no matter what rumoiu;s wore current. That tlio matter was aii important one lie fully recognised. He could not say anything further, because ho had not tlio documents beside -him.

Mr. Massey: Will the House get tho commissioner's report.

Sir Joseph went on to say that ho would bo in a position to tell"the Ilouso all that was in his power —but .no more— at an early date. In regard to the complaint of delay in the furnishing of returns, ho said it was too much to expect that they should be brought down on the first day of the session.

-Mr. Mas-ey. Do you intend to supply tho returns I have asked about.

The Question of Returns. Sir Joseph: I did not listen attentively to your list, but thorn are returns ready which there was no time to . bring down that day, owing to the pressure of other business. 110 also said that the Government could not expend a larger sum of money on public works than it had expended, and the settlers v.-ho wero disappointed must have been misled, for the Government was doing all it could in tlie matter.

Mr. Massey pointed out that in 1901 an Imprest Supply Bill had been delayed till tho second of July.

Sir Joseph Ward said he had never done so. He would look up tho reason for doing it on that occasion.

The Bill was read a third time, and tho House rose at 8 minutes to 1 a.m.