UNIVERSITY REFORM.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 831, 1 June 1910, Page 6

UNIVERSITY REFORM.

MEETING AT TOWN HALL. AN ASSOCIATION FORMED. . EOYAL COMMISSION SUGGESTED. A fairly well-attended meeting was held last evening ill the Concert Chamber of the Town Hall, for tho~purposo of considering , matters connected with university reform. A . considerable proportion of those present were students. Tho Mayor presided, and there were also on tho platform Professors Uasterfield, Hunter, Von Zedlitz, Picken, and Kirk, Messrs. A. L. Herdman, W. Fraser, K. A. Wright, and J. P. Luke, M's.P., Messrs. A. do B. Brandon, A. F. Johnson, J. O'Shea, and G. Hogben (In-spector-General of Schools, and a member of the University Senate). Professor Laby was absent through illness. The- Mayor read an apology for absence from his Excellency the Governor, who wrote: "I believe the time is ripe for fresh and thorough consideration of this most important subject, and I trust that your deliberations may result in definite results." Tho Prime Minister, idio was out of Wellington, telegraphed: "Any movement such as yours, which is for the object of bringing about a greater degree of. efficiency in university work, has my entire sympathy, and I wish your association every success.'*' Numerous other apologies for absence were received. SIR ROBERT STOUT'S VIEWS. The chairman referred to a letter reDeived by Professor Easteriield from the Chancellor of the University (Sir Robert Btout), who, after expressing regret that he was unable.to be present at the meeting, wrote as follows :— "Everyone recognises that the last word has not been said on university management, and that reform is always proceeding, and must always proceed, lor the ideal is ever in the distance in human affairs. I should like much, however, to have it definitely stated what is the goal towards which yon and the others think we should attain. As I understand it, there are such questions as: Wild are to be the examiners? What is to be the programme of studies, etc.? May I point out that i havr*, on mwh occasions thaii one, moved resolutions in reference to degrees? I did so in ISS9, and the resolution I then moved, though not accepted, has in many respects been embodied in our curricula. ' I wished that our science should deal more with the practical wants of the community than it did then; this has been given effect to. I also moved, in 1890, for our degrees to be more logical than perhaps they are at present.' It was not passed, and I think we are approaching to it now in our altered curricula. I send a copy of what I then proposed. I mention this to show that I am not opposed to reasonable reforms "coming gradually, and reforms that are suited to our circumstances. We cannot expect, for years to Some," to be equal to the great institutions of Europe. We have not. tho means, and we cannot employ the number of professors and teachers that they have in the great universities in Europe Mid America. Wo are a small people, *nd we must go cautiously, and in accordiace with our. means. System, of Examiners. "I may, however, point out that, so far as examinations are concerned, I think you will find that in English universities' the teachers are, in many cases, indeed in most cases, tutors, and that only in a few of the subjects nro the teachers examiners. Examinations are required, and they are by men who Have never seen the students, or, at any rate, who have never taught them. That is so in many of the subjects both in Oxford and Cambridge, and I know that, in many of - the other'universities, efforts aro continually made to get outside examiners, so that it should not rest with tho teacher to say what degree his student should obtain.

"I feel sure that, if we had had examiners in New Zealand in the past, they would have been quite unsatisfactory. It may bo that our examinations may require some viva-yoce elements. That takes place, I know, in some of the professorial degrees in England, especially the medical; but that also takes place in our medical degree, since wo trust to local This is a matter in, which it is desirable to have the opinions of, the professors. "I may further say that, so far as our programme of studies in our university is concerned, the university has always invited the professors to make suggestions, 1 andj when the professors ha\o been agreed, the suggestions,. I think, have always been- accepted. -The only, cases in Which suggestions have not been accepted were cases in which the professors were not agreed. May I suggest, then, that the initial reform .may bo to try and get university professors throughout New Zealand to agree as to what they desire? "The main reform needed is that all the, professors of one subject should be of one mind. If this is impossible, how then is it possible for those who are layment to judge as to what is to be done?" A Previous Motion!. The following extract from the minutes of the Senate's.meeting in New Zealand, IS9O, was appended to Sir Robert Stout's letter:— . ■ \ "It was moved by Sir E. Stout: 'That it be referred to a committee to coneider: (1) Whether the pass degree of the university could not be put on a more , satisfactory footing, and a specialisation of,studies permitted, such as (a) a clasBical course, including Latin and Greek, as compulsory subjects; (b) a literary course to have two languages in addition 'to English compulsory; (c) a philosophical course, having mental and moral science, political science, and advanced general history compulsory; (d) four or more courses in science, having special branches of science; such as (1) physical science, (2) chemical science, (3) sciente applied to industrial ,arts or agriculture, (4) natural science, made compulsory; (e) a musical course, making music and its history and scientific subjects bearing on music compulsory; (f) a law course' similar to the LL.B course; (g) a course dealing with pedagogy. (2) The degrees bo specialised might be thus named:'(a) Bachelor of Arts; (b). Bachelor of Literature; (c) Bachelor of Philosophy; (d) Bachelor of Science (e) Bachelor of Music; (f) Bachelor of Laws; (g) Bachelor of Pedagogy; and for honours in the subjects or for a higher examination, tho degrees of Master and Doctor could be granted." PROFESSOR VON ZEDLITZ. Professor von Zedlitz referred to the practical, as opposed to academic training given in the universities of Germany and the United States, and said that in Great Britain and Australia the chango of methods and ideals had made great strides, particularly in the last ten years. But for thirty years, methods and ideals of the New Zealand University had remained substantially the same. The professors of Victoria College were receiving salaries nominally for a class of work which they could not properly perform under the present system, and they did Dot wish to persist in a course of fraud. Nobody was to- blame for the present antiquated, narrow, inelastic system. The professors appealed to their fellow citizens to insist on the application of a little • plain common sense to the situation. The persons who suffered most wrong from the present system were the students. He was speaking in the name of all his colleagues. He believed that all the professors were doing useful, valuable work, and he had a high opinion of most of the students, who more than anyone else prevented him from becoming altogether hopeless. Referring to his first impressions in beginning work in New Zealand the professor said he was astonished that instead of being asked tD teach thoroughly such parts of the enormous subjects entrusted to him as he knew a little about, he was supposed to give out the sort of summary information any text book could furnish. He also found Hint degrees and honours in modern languages could be gained by students who could not speak a word of these languages, and when that was partly remedied, it was not remedied iu tho best way.

The Unforgivablo Sin. ■But hf was-most, astonished when ho learned that while theoretically extra clasSos might be advisable, practically they were open to the' gravest objections. If a professor could stimulate his students'to'go'beyond 'the! exact requirements of the. examination, the whole system of the university toppled over; that was the one thing that was next contemplated be the system. In the eyes ot the university, if a professor actually made- his students fond of knowledge for its own sake that was the unforgivable sin! ■ Professor von Zethtz complained that in the arts and science degree courses, each ol six subjects was , made a separate entity, the student was pulled six different ways by six professors, nml if he did too well in a particular subject, he. lost his degree. This was the natural outcome of the system ot outside examiners. The proposal brought forward by Sir Robert Stout in IS9O not quite what they wanted now, but it was very like it. In every other university the professorial body as a whole was responsible for tlio examinations. There was nothing to prevent him irora merely ■ coaching students for examinations; nobody would know or care, and lie might call himself a fool for doing his duty to the university, which did not ask it. : • . ■ MR. HERDMAN'S PLEA. Mr. Herdman. said that he was pleased to assist the professors to carry out the proposed reform. As a citizen awl as a member of Parliament he was deeply concerned in the future university I life of the country. Professor \ou Zedlitz's remarks had impressed upon hinii four facts-(l) The professors of Victoria College were unanimous that reionu I must be insisted upon; (2) professors under the present system in New Zealand became "coaches," and did not carry out the duties which should properly be performed by them as university proicssors; (3) at present the general training ot students aimed at the taking of qualifications and passing degree, examinations, lie had before him the report ot a Koynl Commission set up by the Victorian government to inquire into the educational administration, and in that'report it was pointed out that a university could oniy be truly notional by association with the life work of the people., It was the duty of citizens to see that university institutions were made efficient and kept up to date. He trusted that the present movement would result in the establishing of a university, better equipped, more stable financially, and doing higher wurk than the present institution. (Applause.) Royal Commission Suggested. A Royal Commission was suggested. It had been his experience, that Royal C-om-missions were not always satisfactory. (Hear, hear.) They were ostensibly set up for the purpose of discovering truth, but they very often concealed tnuii. Nevertheless, he believed that. _if reform was -to ■ bo - brought i about,; a ißoyal Commission would;ha'TO , to'go L into 1 -the matter. He could appoint the ■ commission, and would suggest the names of men of high standing, who had a strong sense of justice. He would suggest men such as Jlr. Fink (a member of the ■ Victorian Commission) .and Mr. Justice Williams. If x commercial roan .were-obtained also, they would have a , ■■ commission, which, after hearing- evidence,; could be relied upon to bring abouteonie measure of reform. Oliver Cromwell, when pointing out that he wanted the Court of Chancery investigated, had- said:-"Go and examine this-thing, .and, in. God S ); namc, inform me what,ought to. be, done. Pho remark was' apropos in the present instance, and, if the commission went about that inquiry with that intention, good must result. (Applause.) PROFESSOR EASTERFIELD. Professor Easterfield urged the necessity for reform'in the interest of the student. A professor should, as far as possible, get his students away from the examination system, and teach them to see that Hid study of science led to little if the student did not get original thought and feel it his duty to increase, if possible, the sum total of scientific knowledge. If the whole time of the student was required in order that he might pass examinations,- he would not learn one of his scientific subjects sufficiently well for him to begin to specialise. Many of the university students became teachers of the secondary schools, and the inadequate training they received was carried by them - to the secondary schools, and finally permeated the primary school teaching of the whole country. For himself, he would resign his professorship tomorrow if he could not stimulate studentsi to do original work. , (Applause.) THE MOTION. Mr. .tJ. F. Johnston moved: "That it is advisable to form a University Reform Association to promote the efficiency of higher education in tho Dominion." Mr! Johnston spoke briefly in , support of the motion. Mr. Hogben, in seconding the motion, remarked that he was a member of that much-abused body, the University Senate, but he belonged to the minority of that body. (Applause.) He believed tliat the professorial boards, or representatives, acting together, were the best judges of what would constitute a good university curriculum, and of the ways in which the soundness of that curriculum could be tested in tho cases of individual students. (Applause.) He considered that a permanent board of professors should be established, who would assist the Senate, to. whom the real standard of work in the university should ho referred, and who would judge the work done by the students. (Applause.) He could not speak severely enough regarding the ineffectiveness and absurdity of examining 12,000 miles away the soundness of the work of New Zealand students. To rely upon examinations by outsiders was to take the soul out of university work. He had confidence in the New Zealand professors—as a whole—{laughter)— and were theso professors the only ones in the -world who could not be trusted with their own examinations? They should be allowed to work along the lines they might choose for themselves,, and this would result iu benefit to the students. He hoped that, as the result of the formation of the proposed association, he would no longer stand almost alone in the Senate. (Applause) GENERAL DISCUSSION. A general discussion then took place. Mr. W. Tanner urged the necessity of reform in the interest of students. He contended that the certificates given by the English examiners had not" the same value as the awards of English universities, and that the importance-attached to them was the, result of snobbery. Mr. Basil Stocker suggested;, that a reform committee within the university might be preferable to a composite association. ■ : Dr. Knight expressed his support of the motion. Mr. J. O'Shea stated that, he was one of the conservatives. As a representative student of the university, he wished to see the system of outside examiners continued. (Applause.) If they were going to have the local examination they would have the personal equation. (Hear, hear.) Professors were only human,, and they would.be influenced by the behaviour of students. ;, ' ■ Another speaker pro'tested" against the reform movement, as undemocratic and conservative. A start was being made at the .wrong end of the stick:' Reform wns wanted first in the primarj schools. He wanted to see the university-free to every child in New Zealand. -Dr. Wallace Mackenzie expressed his conviction that the whole system of primary education was wrong, and began at too early an age. He supported the motion. .... Mr. S. H. Jenkinson, a student of tho New Zealand University, spoke against the motion. The professors wer ( e not bound to keep down to tli'o-cxa'rriination standard. Mr. F. A. de la Mare thought that students of the university, for the most part, were looking forward to reform with the same earnestness as the professors of Victoria College. • The motion was theu,i>u.t and carried, and a vote of thanks , was- passed to the promoters of the meeting. At the conclusion of tho meeting names were taken of those willing to become members of the Reform Association, and a committee was appointed to formulate 2. course of action.