CONCILIATION?

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 791, 14 April 1910, Page 3

CONCILIATION?

THE ENGINEERING TRADE. TAKING EMPLOYERS BY SURPRISE, ARE RAILWAY MEN, RESPONSIBLE P Some very plain speaking took place when- the parties to the engineering dispute met befcwe Mr. P. Hally, Conciliation Commissioner, in his 'office yesterday morning. The office was uncomfortably crowded by the employers and workers, and assessors; representing both. The assessors for the employers were Messrs. D. Robertson, J. Merry (Wanganui), and G. L. Scott (Christchureh); and for the employees Messrs. C. Griffin, T. Tulett, and A. Stevenson. The question of exemptions was first dealt with. Claims for Exemption, , Mr. H. P. Allen claimed exemption for the Forton Gas Company, on the ground that they employed only a manager and lighter. "Exemption also claimed for the Massey-Harris Company. The representative of the Wellington Gas Company stated that the company was not; a party to the former award, and claimed to be exempted again. Out of the seven men employed by the company who might come under an engineering, award, three were under the > blacksmiths' and farriers' awards, and three were plumbers, if the company being exempted ■ from ■ the plumbers' award. That left only' ono man at present who might be; concerned in the dispute. ■ The company' were working under seven other awards, and their wages and conditions of work were' not worse than those laid down by any award. of the Court. The engineering work done by them was not done for profit, but only as an aid to the business. .' - ■ ■ . Mr. Hally. I suppose if you get a similar exemption to the other companies, conditional on.paying the award wages thore would be not objection?— No. The freezing companies also claimed to be. exempted. . Mr. Hally stated that the applications for exemption would be considered. ', .Mr. Grenfell, secretary of the Wellington Employers' Association, objected to '■the inclusion of electricians, brass-fin-ishers, and motor mechanics in the dispute, as they were, not concerned with .engineering. If an award was required in' regard to these workers their employers .should, have been . separately cited, and separate awards should be made. ... It was urged by an employer that the three employers'. assessors represented only one branch of engineering, and the interests of the • other minor branches might suffer onV that account. Mr. Grenfell pointed out that there was an electricians' award already. The brass finishers had been repeatedly struck out from the engineering .award. Mr. J. P. Luke, M.P., said that brass finishers ■ were in the habit of taking a lot of general engineering. woTk, and the engineers should be safeguarded if the brass finishors were exempted from the avjard. • Who Raised the Dispute? Mr. T. Ballinger made the point that nobody; in the trade had raised any puteMr.' W. W. Cable. endorsed this-state-ment. The first he had heard of-the dispute was in connection with the Petone Workshops. It' had been manufactured by a party.of men in- the Petone Workshops; who were not even working under She Act, : who had been bribed by the lost Government' to keep from-under the. Act. .These-oases'were' always brought_about in the same -way. ■. There was no dispute. ■ Another employer read the words at the. head of the official ciroulaT. appointing the Conciliation. Council, and. setting forth; the men's demands, which said "an industrial dispnte having arisen." He declared, that no dispute'had' arisen; ; Mr. Cable:' We' have had no notice of a dispute. We are summoned here to attend your ; Court this morning, and thait is all we know.' ■ ••■■•..,■•

; It was'stated that no one in.'the union appeared •to have pointeuV out '■ any dispute. • .', "".'.'': '; ' "Time This Game Was 'Stopped,".

;.Mr. Ballinger asked if it should not be ascertained from the men who had signed the dispute whether they had asked, for ah increase of wages; If they were; all railway employees, as had been suggested to him, they had no right to formulate a dispute in regard to other employees. "It is about time that this game was stopped," concluded Mr. Ballinger. > Mr. Luke' said there was a feeling that this dispute, like the other one, had been brought into being by people who were not employed in, the local shops. It had been largely worked, ho believed, in the Petone shops: Tho Petone railway workers we're under distinct conditions as set down by Act of Parliament. If they declined to come under the Arbitration Act, then, as a matter of justice and fair principle, ,they should not deal with questions in which they were not concerned as workers. They had .'been given the choice between'going under the Arbitration Act or remaining. under their present system. The employers had had no complaint from their men in any shape or form, and they wanted to know if the men who' were appointed to sit with the commissioner, as assessors for the employees, were in a position to deal with the case. ■ Question of Jurisdiction, An employer asked if. Mr. Hally himself had any jurisdiction when there, had been no dispute. ' Mr. Hally. Oh, there is a dispute all right. These' demands are made, and I take it you don't agree to tb.em._- If you don't agree to them there is a dispute. It was-stated that tho employees' demands had never been sent to the employers. , Mr. Allen: It is like saying an assault had been committed before a blow had been struck.

Mr. Ballinger declared that no dispute had arisen, as-was stated in the notification of the Conciliation Mr. Hally stated, and it was admitted, that copies of this notification had been sent to employers.' Mr. D.. Robertson, expressed his strong objection to the procednre that had been followed. "If thero is any more of this humbug," he declared, "the rest of my men will go on the street." Mr. Hally. Very often it is not convenient for men to tell you directly, that there is.something the matter... Very often they will deal with the matter through their union without telling you directly. You may leave the matter to the assessors. .

Qualifications of Assessors, Mr. Ballinger, whose firm employs only plumbers, who have their own award, copper-smiths, and brass-finishers, objected that his firm were not represented by any assessors. They ought not to have been cited. ' Mr. Hally. read the names of the assessors, who, he said, had been nominated on behalf of the respondents, and the names of the employees' assessors. Mr. Ballinger (when the names of the latter were read): Are they working at the trade? ' Mr. Hally: I can't tell you that. Mr. Ballinger: Well, I submit that we ought to know where they! are working. If they work in the Government railway shops they ought not to be here. It was stated that Mr. Griffin worked in the municipal car-shed. Mr. Hally: If you aro all desirous of being.present, all we can do is to adjourn till the afternoon, for there is no room here. ■ Mr. Luke: Better adjourn to the town Hall, I think. ( ; A Private Conference.

Mr. ,W. B. D. Evans, of Petone, who appeared for the union, said he did not desire to call evidence at that stage. The matter'could be discussed first of all between representatives of the two parties; .. .A private, conference between tho Commissioner and.the assessor's on both sides was then held, to determine the method of : procedure. At the'conclusion of the conference Mr. Hally announced that it had been decided that representatives of both sides should consider the matter in private. If they required to hear any evidence, it would bo called later. It was entirely a .matter'between the employers and employees, it was not a matter of. very great public interest, and he did not consider it necessary that the representatives of the press should bo present. He, risked that the, secretary of the Ironmasters' Association and the socretary of the union should attend, in an unofficial c(L£icity, in addition to the assessors,

Mr. Ballinger repeated that his firm nad no representation. Mr. Hally said that when that part of the difficulty came to be dealt with, it was quite probable that the council would ask one or other, or both of the parties to be present. "No End to Awards." It was pointed out that the plumbers and cheap-metal workers had an award at present, and it was not desirable that they should have two different awards. Mr. Ballinger: .Wo are under that award. There is no end to awards. We shall not know where we are soon. Mr. Hally said that, the council would make a recommendation, and if either of the parties were dissatisfied with it they could go to the Court. The recommendation would not be binding on anyone. Mr. Grenfell asked if the Commissioner would give' a ruling in regard to the citation of various classes of employers. It was sought to include in this dispute brass-finishers, plumbers, electrical fitters, freezing companies, and motor cycle mechanics. A ruling had been given by the Arbitration, Court distinctly directing councils that where disputes covered a variety of employers it was the duty of tho union to serve separate citations and make a different dispute of each. Tho Court stated that if the unions failed to do this and a dispute was referred ; to the Court, the union would run the danger of having the dispute struck out, and of having to go through all the proceedings again; . Mr.. Hally replied that the council would be guided by whatever the Court had done. Position of Freezing Companies. Mr. Grenfell urged that the freezing companies should.be exempted. The men employed by the freezing companies enjoyed special conditions and . concessions, and their work as engineers was merely incidental to their other work. The en-, gineers ,and fitters of the Hawke's Bay Freezing Company were covered already by a Hawke's Bay award, and they could hot be under two-awards. ' . ' A representative of/a freezing company stated that there was a distinction between engineers and fitters. Ho urged that fitters should be exempted. The Men's Demands. The men's demands are briefly as follow :—Forty-four hours to constitute a week's work. Overtime rates to be time and a quarter for the first two hours, time and a half up to • midnight, and then double time. Rates for New Year's Day, Easter Sunday, Easter Monday, and Boxing Day to be time and a half, and for Sunday, Good Friday, Labour Day, and Christmas Day double' time. Nightshift workers to bo paid 2s. pel shift extra after the third consecutive night. Outside' repairing work to involve Is. a day extra as dirt money. Wages of the fol-lowing-competent tradesmen to be not less than Is. 6d. per hour:—Fitters, erectors, blacksmiths, coppersmiths, turners, pat-tern-makers, ' electricians, brass-finishers, millwrights,;. : makers,... .and .. motor mechanics, also machinists, including milling, planing, slotting, drilling. Milling machinists to be paid . Is. 4id. per hour, and slotter6, drillers, and planers Is, 3d. In the agricultural implement trade the terms of award only to apply to the following:— Fitters, erectors, turners, pattern-makers, millwrights,- employed on general engineering work connected with agricultural implement trade, including chaff-cutters, baggers, ridgers, • drills, . threshing machines, corn crushers, and saw inches. Regarding blacksmiths, piece work may continue as. at present. Apprentices to bo paid for first year 7s. Gd. per week; second year, 12s. 6d.; third year, 17s. 6d.; fourth year', 225. 6d.; fifth year, 30s. ... . Detailed provisions are made for the treatment of apprentices. An apprentice after five- years may be employed as an improver for one .'year at not less than Is; ljd. per hour. For country work the employer shall pay the fare of the worker both ways, and a proper allowance at current rates shall be made to the' worker for necessary meals. When the worker is unable to return at night, suitable board and lodging shall be provided. Travelling time shall be paid for at ordinary rates, bnt not to a greater amount than eight hours in a day. Provisions are made in regard to under-rate workers, and preference is asked for unionists.

A Two Days' Case, At 11.30 a.nr. the council commenced its private consideration of the questions before it, and was .so engaged for tho remainder oi'« the day. At 5 p.m. Mr. Hally informed a Dominion representative that the council's attention would probably be occupied again throughout to-day dj tno dispute, in answer to a question, Mr. Hally • stated • that none of the employees' assessors' was employed at the Petone Workshops. Mr. Cable, who was asked by a Dominion representative if he would amplify his remark about the Government Having'"bribed" the railway workshops' employees not to come under the Arbitration Act, explained .that when the late Mr. Seddon offered the men the option of coming under the Act, they were told that they would' lose their superannuation and other privileges if they agreed to do so. The Hon. J. A. Millar, Minister for Railways, has also made it clear that if the railway nien come, under the Arbitration Act, they cannot expect to retain special privileges which they now enjoy.