HISTORIC DEBATE.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 707, 5 January 1910, Page 6

HISTORIC DEBATE.

PEERS' APPEAL TO THE PEOPLE. CRITICISM«AND REPLY. ' MEMC)EAJBLE SCENE IN, THE HOUSE ■■ ..'■..■... ■ :j of, lords. ■;■;■: . ■:; The galleiy representative of the London. "Standard" gives the.. -following graphic description; of the historic debato in the .House of Lords which ondod in the carrying of the following ' "That this House is not justified in giving its consent to this Bill until it has been submitted to the judgment of the country." •. i ■ : :. Whatever/ judgment posterity. may pass, upon, what i; the;Lords are going to do; it will.certainly be constrained to admit that no great \ decision was ever taken with : a greater . sense of responsibility and ■ after • a more/careful and unbiased consideration .of the questions at issue and the interests at stake. '. . , ...

: ■■'■; An Impressive Spectacle. ' The .spectacle presented'by the House at the 'opening of the debate was as memorable as :the : debate'itself, v Every inch of spaced on. the red benches .was occupied, Opposition peers filling up the room to the right of the throne which the comparatively, sparse of. the Ministerialists "had left vacant. .All members of the Government who are members,, of the. House were and the only, noticeable absentee on the front Upposition bench was Viscount- St. Aldwyn. Conspicuous among the peers who occupy the .neutral ground of; tho crossbenches were the Duke: of Connaught,Earl Koberts, and tho Earl of , Eosebery; ihotWoolsacks-which, by-tHe way.are technically,: outside the House-were black with rechmng,n g u.res;;the Lord.Chancellor hiniself.,was.hardly given elbow room, r j I m . ac e could not be seen.'. The Lords: bpintual,; among.'whom were,,the Archbisliops ; of Canterbury and of York m their, robes,of lawn, formed,, an. island': IS 6 1? heaving; sea'of. black. Behind the Woolsack, on,,the steps of the throne , and ■'(before it, Privy Counf}}hl? ri Ud if eers '' sons stood 'P a « ke| i together liiq the.-crowd-at a footbaU match. Mr John •Burns, in the back row,' was .condemned, to .stand- on tip-toe :to' view Gn.irph"n • y? xt ' to c hm : » Mr.-. Winston Ohurchil. scion- of ■a- 'ducal: house,'and. bitter, critic, of:, ducal: methods. ■- Ho :wore his. customary.;, half-smiling,: half-trucu-ient an of confidence, and. took less' interest in the debate thaiim the spec-. tacle_b O fore;.him. At the other encf. of cne Jipuse.a'.mass bf members., of 'the. Uimmons .Chamber crowded, behind .-the,

;..-: King Manuel Views The Scene. ;'Only : those:entitled"to seats were'per- 1 mitted to approach:: the entrance to the galleries, and long before.the"doors were opened long columns of distinguished people stood waiting patiently for admission, many of them with no, hope of obtaining their.desire. With : an absence of noise .or bustling befitting the dignity of the Lpper. Chamber the limited accommodation of the galleries .was instantly taken :up.-:.observed of all observers, and-himself one-of the most■ interested spectators, rKine- Emanuel of Portugal sat almost'at flie end of the Peeresses'' Gallery'on the right of .the-throne. Nothing . escaped, the -young;. King's .notice,' and until the debate began the Marquis de Soveral,: whoVacted-as his , -Monarch's' escort, .was ■ busily ' engaged in': answering a stream of questions. -His: Majesty remained, during the whole of-the time that Lord Lansdowne and the Lord Chancellor ivere- speaking, 'following their remarks with' the 'closest attention;- . ■ : • A.Opposite ::to "the; King; the,' Diplomatic' Gallery was, filled' with the representatives of foreign ' nations';-' The United States Ambassador, hand to ear, lost-no word that was '• uttered.: A column would be needed, togiye ,the names.of the peeresses who were present, but .prominent were- .the :-Duchess :of Conuaught,- : the Duchess.cof. Somerset, Lady. 'Northbrpok, i Lady:;. Lytton, Lady.,::Ampthillj-; L'ady .Wemyss;'■lady;Erne';- Lady Denraarii-.Ladyi, Waldegrave, and Lady Hmdlip. iHalf the noble families ,in the ..country; must have: been ' : represented, 'some in-the, o gallery, some-crowded 'in"-the' narrow Y gallery doors, "-and- more still waiting',vaiply for places in . staircase '• and' 'cprridors'j The attendance of. members of.;the .Commons''. House, was enormous, and:.only a;proportion', found places in; the .space reserved for;them. : ;; ;'-.■.,-'.. '.'.■■ : '■'■'■■■' '.■•■ :--:; : ■

.-■■■■ Surprise From Lord : Crewe. s ";/■ As .the clock struck .half-past 1 four the subdued murmur, of-conversation ceased, the' units. l of/the ; great; assembly stiffened, as.it, were,, to;' places,' and the .business. of.,this memorable day.began. .'SomJ petitions against the Finance .Bill.were 'presented, a ques? ,tion". was' asked and' answered, the ' clerk read tho. first order ;of the day:.-'.'The:Fi nance -Bill, second:.reading," and 'Lord ■ Crowe';'rose. ; His hat .was in,.his : hand, sure. sign would lnake no speech, ■ yet .the House seeiaed. unwilling ■ to recog- ■ riiso; it. : . "I move ■ that the. Bill be; read ■ a. second .time." 'That .was' all.' /A'jnu'r-: mur of mingled -protest "and astonishment ran round the.crowded'benches, and there, "was: a moment. of hesitation on . Lord Lansdowne's'pirt. Then, amid a.rattle.of: cheers,, he advanced to the table,-ta move the resolution that promises' to. make' history :. '"That this-. Hduseriis /not justified in giving ..its. consent to this .BUI, until sit has , been submitted to the ■judgment of the, country." .. ■ -'-:'>; ' L\ v - No ■ man -in the public life: of, England is better.; qualified than,-Lord Lansdowne to ;take'; the;'lead in' putting --forward: . this '■-grave/:'projposal: : .'' : .'--;'His".' > Tecord as ; a' public servant compares with-.that of any British statesmen: and administrator. 'He ''' began by -. twitting.: Lord;' • Crewo on shirkiug ii speech:.."Was it an occasion on which silence was. more.:eloquent than -words?" and then plunged at once into the. reasons :.why. the .Lords': ought-.'not tc. :take' the 'responsibility.'.-for , passing the Bill—"this: hotch-potch of financial-.legis-lation;", as he ■ called it—into :law .until .the judgment; of., the . people had been obtained upon;it."■Hβ quoted- many authorities, including. Lords ■ Spencer and Kipoh, to .-prove.-that the\Lords, would be.within" their constitutional rights. v n rejecting i'the'.. Bill. -' "If s the; Bill become ■law,": he said,'"it must be. enacted", by the King's Most Excellent-Majesty: by and with the advice and; consent of the, Lords Spiritual arid Temporal." "Is that a mere'musty, anachronism?" he;, demanded.. ..• He■:showed.; how',- the \Governmont had- tacked on to the Finance Bill measures which': the : Lords had/ ■ ivith the opinion of the .country .behind them, : rejected,: such as.the 'Licensing Bill/ Again he mastered the hoarseness in: his voice in demanding: "Would- any. self-respect-ing: Second: Chamber, tolerate such conduct?""': .' . , ■"■ V.■■■"■, ■•■■ : ";.' -.:-.'.■'■•

A- Masterly Survey. V ■ A masterly survey of' the- financial proposals of'the, Bill and a searching examination/; into -the: effects of the ;new taxation were full of good points and '.little,-unexpected flashes of wit. .He did not'.hesitate to. criticise the. land clauses "becauso : there 'happened.-to- be" some landowners in the House." He' saw.' in them, a vista/of litigation which would , upset the whole ■'. country .and. , a. descent into the-.lowest depths of 'obscuro and confused legislation., Then Jis proceeded to' ask himself: questions which would have been put in "Lord Crewe's .uh-. , spoken speech." - .What'worild - be - his alternative, to ■ the proposals of the Budget?. Whilst the. Houso.listened: in. tense silence,- broken ] now. and again 'by a;.deepthroated cheer, he.; explained f the reasons why his ■ alternative ■' must take the. form of; Tariff Roform. . .V. ;:V '; ; - •.:".

: ';. As he proceeded, .'his.', voice . became clearer and his fanner more animated; His answer rang loud.and ]firm .to the question: ."Have the consequences of rejecting this Bill ?" "Ayo," he said, "we have; and we are roady to face them." He scouted the idea of a financial deadlock..! "Is your Budget, ; so perishable that it will, not keep for six wooks?" turning, to the benches: behind him, ho asked Unionist, peers \ who were inclined •■ to ' doubt -..' the wisdom of the strong course, th,at ha was. recommending 'whether they would "put themselves in a. worse. or. bettor position if they, shirked their -'responsibility now and declined the contest tnat was':inevitable. Great and. prolonged cheering : greeted Lord ■ Lansdowris when he: sat down • after speaking for over an hour. : and a. quarter. ■;■'■ • . The Lord Chancellor. ; \

The Lord Chancellor followed, inflicting upon the habitue'of. the House of Commons the mild shock which he : ol-

ways experiences when he sees the Speaker ?• t , ppe . r Chamber stepping from his high place into the arena of party conflict. But the occupant of the Woolsack has always been a party , man, , , and is ex-: pected to make party■■■speeches. Lord Chancellor. Loreburn's mellow voice; his genial presence, his unfailing' courtesy, and his keen sense of humour appeal to political friend and , foe alike.' All: the sting of the Lord Chancellor's speech was in the tail., The brief-peroration was a careiully studied threat hurled ■by the Government at ; the Opposition and the House- as a whole. V Reading the words slowly; and -impressively, from a slip:'of •paper, the Lord Chancellor declared that "it would be. impossible for any Liberal Government ever again to bear -the heavy burden of office unless; it. was . secured against a repetition.of.the treatment:such as their measures had had to undergo in the. : last four.yenrs." .To an accompaniment of Ministerial: cheers, he went on :— "If we.fail in the coming election it will~only_ bo .'the. beginning, of "the. conflict, which ; can: end only in one way. .If we succeed, I hope we shall not flinch ; from what will: have to follow; Wehave not provoked this conflict (derisive .Opposition cheers), lint'we are not afraid of it, and I hope that none of us will fail to. do his duty -in • preserving the. Constitution of the country"." ..;• .'■■"•- ",'•■'■'.... ■:■' There were low, murmurs of applause from the little band of Eadical Peersahd: some ironical cheers from the Conservative Peers; ■ but the : effect' of the ■'■■ Lord Chancellor's. statement on the Eadical members, of Parliament who crowded the galleries was electrical., They rose :,- at once and left the Chamber,.convinced that from their" point* of view ::they. had heard the last word of the Government 'before the .general.-flection. ■:>'' -~; . ■: ,

; -■■■''■ Lord['Halsbury's Reply.. '■'■■ ,'.) . Ex-Lord Chancellor Halsbury, the sturdy veteran of .a. hundred, fights,, took up the' challenge, with-al'vigonr and": a:; spirit that w-ere extraordinary'in a man of-his age.':'.Afterwards:.:came the. Bishop.: : of Bristol, supporting:the proposal of Lord Lansdowrie... "If,", said.he, "we give way to the threats of the.Lord-Chancellor we : shall deserve to'be put an'end to;" Lord Sheffield and>Lord:?Willoughby;.de Broke' then spoke, and.'.the House adjourned for dinner. ■■' 'X-'■<■'•■■■' ,'■■ ■;"■ ■■ When the -debate 'yras Resumedi: , :the ■ House; and the. spaces 'before the ,• throne and. behind-:' the" Bar-were rather" less crowded; .but ,it iwasLonly !on theiMinis-. terial side; thttt-.there■' were::visible gaps on .the , red benches. , ..The peeresses were now in evening 'gowns '■' uf brilliant colours. Two Chinese mandarinS, : 'in;r6bes 'of won-, derful blue, decorated..the; Ambassadors'; Gallery, and altogether the aspect: of the Chamber, was-■ brighter: than during,-,'th.e-afternoon. .'■'"■'': '■;.'' V s : :':'= V 'U'

The Duie". ; of- : Norfolk, .Earl >Marshai of the Realm and premier earl, continued the debate; '.-Lord; Welby,- ex-high . official : of. the .Treasury,, followed:-a dry, |. man;, full 'of' figures and economic'.theory and' statistical-.lire.r;.lt .is he; who .fail-, ed to make-Lord;'Lansdowne'£ flesh, creep' in .regard to- the , .financial- chaos.that would follow'the;rejection .'of the Budget..- ■-..-, ;J ".''■;■ :-v:: : Y:■■';■.■;.:;;;■;.-.';'■; : Lord. p Kevelstoke's.■ intervention; shortly - before'ten o'clock reflected, very seri-ous-view. ! whicM'-.the...City,. takes 'of.■>the. revolutionary; proposals^of' the Bill.: : A: member sof..- the'. Upper .House ■" for , 'some years now,; this • was■'•■':his maiden speech;; Quiet in: manner, and. literally" packed'; with' , facts, 'it ■ created an excellent •' -impression. .'lt presented' a point - of. view., which : cannot' be .ignored. , In a. well-modulated voice, 'Without a suspicion 'of assumption,' this practical man ofM affairs;? direotor ■• of', the . Bank of. England, .and ; , chief tof ■ one ■ of■ the .'■ mpst ; : important financial houses in the City v told .their'lordships i.-in measured .'tones'that ; credit is being .'undermined" by .the proposals of the Billand the series'.of. Socialistic moves which have led up :to;.:it.: : Capital'" is - being -driven abrdad.i'and the. very.'hub of:.the business ,world;p the;-City of,.londph,\ is' losing its attraction in' that direction.' The'moment; Ki.!had|nnished v with v facts; Lord, Kevelstqke:resumed his. seat, - after one. of. the most, compact, interesting;, and. important .'maiden:' speeches heard' in' the'-TJpper House for : -'- '- '- . V. The, Bishop 'of:■ Birmingham"v,opposed Lord said, it could not > ; be/justified,--unless.the; -Finance^ Bill!.were 'proved, to. :be-'revoltt . tionary •" and i oppressive, and in .his' ppin-ioh-'.itv was: neither.-ff' Lord. -Eibblesdalewas sorio-comic'.-',. He. was serious! in' declaring - himself; to-be ■ a .Free-trader'and' ih : denouncing Socialism,;and comical;,in apologising for /the' fljimehouse J - of his-.friends in'".the Ministry '.a'hd'in, his .half-hearted '.to. iustifyV .th'e < ■action- he proposed ;to' ; take in voting/for; a Budget h«. did not .like.,.. The'. , House rose ,'at ,11.15,.L0rd' Cromer moving' , .the adjournment'of' :,'/:;.::•..■

■■•■■;! ''(':';.'. Historical; Survey.; r f- "/-'■■; ■ Dmctlv : descended.':from ; the-iWitaii- of Saxon " times, the : House j of. '■■ Lords •■ has had a more - or.', less -continuous existenceof.,nigh .upon, a:thousand years;r;-In;all that,, .lone/ period,of time inany, epodhmaking' debates have .taken!place' within! its'r .do6rs;: : .butV,it; may/ be -truly ■ said; that : none, .has.; /ever, /-equalled. ■'. or . even' approached ■; in'- far-reaching - import-. ance that . which -began-.to-day! ■.■ The great .crises o f ;;•:'; 1831 . and:-I860,; when the; Lords.,defied, the. Commons aid.'rejected,. in 'the first'lns'tance,'the Reform .Billj' and .in- the , second oP- the; Bill' for. ■the repeal; of-'/the , -; paper .duties* 'were; as nothing .compared with ; tie. situation, with which'.the.country'is: faced- to-day.. But if,tlie" present. crisis, is more, grave 'than .that .of;-lS3l; , ;or';-]8S0, ; of the House' of .Lords'in : dealing .with it is- vastly .more solid '.than it'rwae at the time of either;'of.. the previotis: conflicts; , ■'■■Lord; Derby..said,"sixty : odd; years'.agoithati"it had never;been-the-course of the House resist a ; ,continuously andv deliberately' exp_ressed. : 'public. opinion," and-thit was in' an age when the • Lords represented .little, in tte ; nationbut'. themselves, 'and '.were apt '■■ to put' the ; interests : and privileges. •. of■ • their • • order. ■ before the 'common, weal... :■ Blackstone's theory ;of.the -.British.Constitution; once" quoted by Robert-Lowe, '-was' that -"the 'King represented .power, the; Lords -wis-. dom, and the Commons; good intent' oris."Thoone porti6n;of that theorywhich can • stilk.be: called, sqiind. is that wliich. - ap- ■ ■pliesjto..,the-:H.oiise of, Lords. .Wisdom'; sits: upon benphesi: the-.concentrated wisdom of tha*nation,;of experienced men ofjthe ; world ); ,:of;;practical, men of business, of great .scientists,; of eminent law-' yers, -of brilliant men of: letters,- of ad'ministrators' who have ruled continents " i( The Lords to-day'are better able than, .ever;to gauge the.'true current of public opinion, , . and less disposed than ever J-ecklessly. to 'oppose . it. : Yet : they, iiitend, . deliberately 'and 'with -their. eyes' ;open to all possiblo'consequences, , to take a course'-in this debate' which, if.it be not .ehdorsed|.:by, ft popular .vote,, will mean the remodelling .at' least'of. the British'.Constitution, -the practical aboli-' , tion ; of the : Chamber,, and ; the" adoption -■ of -'methods "of. taxation, and; government whiqh;must..lead, in time, , to the disintegja'tianlof the' Empire and .the I establishment of'a.■ Socialistic regime. ■ ■ It. is .inevitable;'.therefore,:..that • the speeches delivered'-in!"the course, of the debate—-particularly that: made-by iLord Lansdowne ". this '• afternoon, Vin. -which; the course , of!action which the Lords-pro-pose ,to.; take is; justified/in so .and masterly; a nihnher—will' provide' future students.'of.:English-lietory , .with matter of all-absorbing interest. If/Mac- , aulay's New Zealander :should.: ever stand among the ruins'of Londoni. it is certain, that he.'will have in his:"pocket-the.re-' cord of this week's 1 work in;the House of-Lords.-' '•: '■'■■ ,- : - : \\ ■'•'.' ■.;.' :■:■■ -.".-"■ - ;

I .- ;.. .-.;-. ,-, ••;:.,•..: :.. ,- .<; ~■•;+". ;■■ \\; ■':,:.■ At the.. Old; Bailey,- Alice (JhapinVi-'a Suffragist,, was; charged'.with..interfering with a ballot-box at the Bermondsey election, . and attempting •'.'. tp\' destroy..; ballot papers aud: causing' grievous'bodily harm to. the returning : officer.; ■ The returningofficer: of ; Bennondsey, in giving evidence," said that when the. ballot-bos was-opened many :'of .the"papers-.'were found ,:to ; be : massed together and others stuck to the sides and bottom, of; tho ; box. : They .'.were;: much stained, but the : voters' marks had been.turned yellow, so that.lie; was-lable. to .decipher. l every one! ..Mr.', Thorbv,' the: presiding officer, 'whosa'.eye .was splashed, with somo. of the • fluid from ; the bottle/ broken over tho ; ballot-bos by the prisoner, also 'gave!evidence, and the, accused was found guilty of, interfering with* ballot papers ana : common assault. She was sentenced'' to; .thw'e months' ■': impris---onnicnt. for!.the;, .first offence " and four , months .■: for-; the ' second,'..' the' sentences' to 'run"' concurrently. \*Tor interfering. -. with; .a:...ballot-box, "Alison Neilans was ivlso; sbntenoed';. to three months' imprisonment.' The sentences are I in the second division;-. ■■■■; ■'■..■-.'.-■-.• ';'••■•'.'■' ■;

'.-■■ The. first' catalogue..of' the-■ etarsVas published about' 1530.,-■ :. r ';;■ \x V. :