ESTIMATES HELD UP.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 699, 27 December 1909, Page 6

ESTIMATES HELD UP.

FINANCIAL ADVISER: £400. ATTEMPT TO REINSTATE THE VOTE DETERMINED' PROTEST. [ HOUSE ADJOURNED TILL TUESDAY. Tho principal event in the House on Friday was tho tattle over tho vote for tho »840 d salary for tho Government's financial adviser in London, It will bo remembered that this iterfi appeared on t tho Consolidated Estimates, and that the office is l!ald by tho Hon. 'W. P. Reeves, formerly High Commissioner for tho Dominion. By 33 votes to 25 however, tho House, whilst engaged in con>r adoring those Estimates, , struck out Hβ item on the ground that tho position was an unnecessary one. Tho item reappeared,, on the Supplementary Estimates, Trhich were placed in the hands Df members about midday on Friday.

".Are These Fair and Proper Tactics?" 1 When tho item was reached, Mr. Slassoy asked tho Prime Minister whether he expected tho House to agreo to tho reinstatement of tho vote. Ho referred to tho circumstances under which tho i vote had been struck out by a substantial majority. Now they found it on tho Supplementary Estimates. Were these, he ' asked, fair and proper tactics, because, if tho Pnmo Minister thought so, ho (Mr. Massey) did not think so. Tho tactics were bad, and ho did not think Parliament was being treated properly. ' What, ho asked hon. members, was happening now? This vote, already strjick out by the House, nts being rein,(tatcd by Gn.veraor's Message Was it a proper thing to use tho representative o 1 tho Sovereign in this country for party! purposes, because that was what tho Prime Minister was doing. ' I feel very strongly about this," said Mr. MasseyJ" spriaJang t with coolness and deliberation, "dnd I aon t want to speak strongly. VTho vote _ p should bo struck out Let tho x payment already due bo made in another way 1 lave no objection to that" \, The Governor , and Party Politics. Tho Prime Minister said he regreifcd that it had been inferred that thu 'Governor was being used for party purposes. Booh a thing had never been done by, any Government i (Mr. Massey. Up fall now. ,f Eesuming, Sir Joseph said that i('nas necessary for certain matters to bo brought down by Governor's Message!} The Governor had no right, nor wouLl he look into individual items clear of party. The duty of the Governor was to agree to whatever was placed before him.* For what was'before the House the Govern- , meet was responsible, not the Governor either directly, or indirectly. Hβ believed t that when the voto was struck out a ' number of members voted under a misap- . prehension as to tho duties of the financial , adviser. If the vote were not t placed on the Estimates again, the Govarnmont was put in the position of having to make what might be called a bur(roptifaous paymenl' f in the matter. Ho wished to remind tt embers 'that'a greater portion of tho ,3tadunt was already due ito Mr. Eeevils,". and for all he knew it might have been paid. The position of financial adviser was a necessary one, and iii saying that ho was not speaking on behalf of Mr. Beeves, but from the standpoint of the* financial operations of tho Dominion. Itntil'recontly the country had had the beneht of a financial adviser in the [- r person of Sir Walter t Kenncway, who In as now, howevar, getting advanced in years. Among AgentGenerals probably no man who had pre- ' ceded him had acquired such a wido knowledge of financial matters as Mr. Reeves. i.'As tho financial operations of. the Dominion ran into millions every year, the arrangements, must be mado as t perfect as possible. The appointment of '' f Mr. Beeves was, ho might say, subject to hi months' The Government should not;bo put in the position of voting the amount out of unauthorised.

v Motion to Reduce tho Voto. \ ' Mr. Massey said that, when a vote was 1 struck out, it could not be reinstated except by Governor's Message. Again, le would say that the Governor nos , in this instance being used for party parposes, and in defiance of the wish of a majority of the House. Mr. Reeves should ' lie paid until the date on nhich he was retired from tho position, but this should / bo the final payment to him. There wore r other'ways m which the payment could | be made, as, for instance, through un--1 , authorised expenditure Another reason - , why _Mr. Beeves should not occupy tho J 1 position was that he was a director of tho i i National Bank, which was dome the sec- I 'ond largest business in the Dominion Surely thd work could be done Dy nn , official at the High Commissioner's office. He would move that the>vote be reduced , by J399. ' ' - Tho Primo Minister said that if tho House did away with, the position of n- , nancial adviser in he would iemove from himself the in connection with financial matters in London, i The fact that a man was a director , of a T hank as well as a hnancial advjser was a common thmg. At Home noDy financial adnsera to great concerns v< re directors of'banks. Mr. Herdman Objects Strongly.

Sp^Mr^Berdinan^WpingtpnSNorth); said; l?/?p;Ko^ject^:strqn^^.to,itheireinstatemont' :JJ!?S (f& * the s ybtej3;on;; the Abroad :ground 2that; ? BhpuM; : bo; sfruck's out ;:• it :;had Tno.bright : t b. ;;it; ; m; the :'•.''''" ■■'■ :: , ■'• *'■':': ' : -'".- l > \\.) ■• .. SsKfer.Su?Joseph?^Sorely jweihiie'^a-right, Ui. ■'• /'j'rV/.'T 'J;5 v Afr,',iTTrprrfrhflTii'HßnipH : that' ■thff'' -HoUSO' :'fS',^ ; >iha4 ,; strucjk'^^7out-':the:-itein!vunder/a misap-' rl^iyr^e^ioni^/'As'af'matter'.^W ; - ! ;-:it(ini:,iwasT thoroughry.,sdebated,, and v'the :^^;%PEune: ; Minister' mado ; a llengthy' explanaIt? wasSutterly iwrqng ;and .impro-: K'ip';per^for. v ;theJPrimo'-:toniste^ ; &i#>ieinstite,'the:;vote:-'' He?could 'only.'come 1 £is^fito:J^ : xcounted: ; heaosvand found 'that'as ;a- numsifji;ber:iqfi:m«mbers;;wdre;awiy.;he:;could:get SSSS;stha"Jy6teßeinstated.•"■" ; ..':-; ; ; i:H. : 7 :: :.-> if IS ftsMi;' ; {|Greansladei [Some '■ o{.. ns vpioV not i»?l:£yjiiiray,;' ; ;t*Ai':v',: ■•:'-''7-,:'''i':: J ' ! f:'': y r'^- : :^'- ' ; It woild />not /do any-. if} you /were , ' away:.;/ (LanghtcrJ;-: ■?.-; iIISISSSES'S-lQuUeJlmproper,,'-/;;. ' :'-■ '-:.'.h SW'i'fi';t; Cantinuißg, Mi. r; ;Herdmßn. said. that ;thef "adopted! was;| :;sigjyo,yite'iimprbpen- : iv^v5':; ; ':? :: - / ' "■:■■■''}. ■.'' J i':■'•"' sMinisier isaidvhe - wanted .to g!j|ff;say/that»tho'JGoyefhmeht ;Mn' submitting: $ig!'& the: proposal 1 , had--no rmotiye so ..unworthy. g;S;-;'ias';'had ; -beMii;;anferred; : :''-t'y>':;/::-?^*R?ipbtiye?'.iti:s'g^''-?■;-;H •■!=•!-■ ' v ;:;- ': :^'~\? : . vV't ■pRi;; ?? Sir:" Josep' h i : 'lt ; is; not ; - the' v business ;' of. v>;|t;s:thei;'GoyernmenV'if'/members'/ilon'l;';stay. Kt?: ? tUtJtne\:end^;6f,:the;6Cssion:;;s;t'' : V ■-:;':;:; ;SSss;s ; Mr;:''Her(lmatf:;{What ihadiyoti?. SiSfeK Sir-'. of. 'tho Wi S : -Bouso;"W:»€;- SMf v : M\(-i: ! :'»;- : ''J '■'' S'::Rv?;v>Mr.^Hordmatti'/You;hoye ;had';it. :)*■■:?~: necessary;o:dei i7yif' ; ; -'£.' Sf«f';K;Mr. : vHardy '(Selwyn) heW^: l Vew;"unialrVfpr;'.'^tf l Goyeiimsn i t:'tp Ty>';jJ«^'Sir:-'JbMphV;I. : ;i;?flS?sii Mr^rHardy;:' As' Loader/'bf ;Jhe?HoiJsb' wo ;;tp ; '';;.Xou Sf^ishould"-be , ': in'sthili.''matter.. : :v - : Miiiistfedenieji' that he was ■•SiiV v placihgT,the.;:Ho'us§yn>'an'uiifair. position. lS,wixS:.'i/-:%«^'^g^fes'^?--'i;^'-i:'--.'vA.; , ;' Sl;:P'j'; ; "'MPr?^^-i?^-? s i?'fl' v i?i? ns ' ; v-'' v; .■■-.' : a{pi^isXßiagp|Eaid'.that-'his'' ?KftV;jobject'o£'; : moviiig- that'-.-.the; vote, bo ::re;'duced>bySie399.: was {thatr399..;divisi oris. JvJ;|vi : ;might";bo 'taken) on-,the sniiject. -VWould GS;;4thatiie/possible ?%-.-X 'yr-MP.- V-'-'' : '- - ; ■'•■ ■■'■■• ."■■•. '.. '/si;' i: ;;wMr;"iHorries.;(Tauranga) ! ;! r ;pointed .-out i|s'sii that/tho item whs previously '■' struck. o\it $!£iJi /by/: 35/tfotes ■'.. to 25 yotesi ■ ;Tho voto ' was for feJKdimbst /qfi'the I'maiontyfweni;:tried pplitil^'Seians.:;;;/rf;:the/House .authorised- the: vote it /would : meain'/that v Mr.'./Eeevee; would Stili: tho';,.House':.met: 3|'£: i sag'a ; in/V : 'What,/:thp'/:Houso/;-/wa'nted ;••;. the Slfe;Governnrthti.tb/imderstand/wits; 'that|;"thp' ■|pjTappointiherit'/shoiild;-he/terminated.- : Hi; )Mjr?A'wonld: ; likoltb/ppint but '-.that-the ;Prime' : -W< Aitinister;had, r pi'eyiously' stu'tod/that'■ ho had 'arranged; for/'tho .flo totion'. of •', all. the" ■W. r «loailsTfo'r/twp/years'rahead./vlt/was a fact W : :'f also/that'all/conversiohs were;donp by .the /England;" {Ho ■ wished/ also to;'re-' ifei/ ; " Blind -iembeis ; that: the .'Dominion .had

Crmyn' Agents -at Home. Mr. Pallisor, ■who. \vns. second, in.oharga. of tho High; '.Commissioner'sUoffic'e, V had-been '. trained■ : in tho '.office.' and' would be just as well Sunlificd as ' Sir. , Walter -Kennaway, who ad formerly ..undertaken'tho duties... j>l •'//Future; of ;■ the. •: ;Mr.. Laureiispn';(Lyttclton)'.-: said the Opposition should take the Prime ■ Minister's assurance that Mr.Rooves .waSjnot .to-bo , '.continued'-'in this office. ; - ..'-" . :.' Opposition members: We have not had ,that assurance. ... r ; '. ■''■'■'.■'' \>: /Mi , .; Laurenson said he was not in the,' House all tho. time, and had not heard tho Prime Minister's statement. \ ; Mr. Allen(Bruce) remarked that, ho did-.not know...whether' -Mr. Laurenson was speaking, officially, but so far ..they had;no assurance to.that effect. : If'taich ah assurance ■woro;givcn,; it. would, go a long, way ...to settling, the matter, in dispnto;i :Ho. did ; not see- why. the London agents should not do all. tho:work ueces'sary ■ in, London. ,■ '• This; bffico was -a new creation.'.-. Ho -would - ovon :go : s6 -far 'as to say.; that , Mr. Reeves ■■ should have not only this , yearV salary, but also; salary equal to ..six .months'^notice.; If, how-J ever.'tho.voto were passed without some :assuranco," it ,; ..ivould:'-be an. indication that' Mr.' Eeoves was; to be continued in •hisifpffica'■;:...'•'•; ;:;;;;.,.; ■.'. ■- : .-' ; : ■;■ ,Mr. :Mander supported' this vieir. '. ■.•'. Mr. • -iLaurenson spoke of. the large ex.perienco ; of. Mr..'-. Beeves .in' ■ connection .with:? financial; matters in London.';: B< however, recognised House hw' given) an 'expression: of opinion that ,tho . ;bo> discontinued. : Mr.,.'Wright '(Wellington South) said if the ■'■ Government' wero going' to reverse such. a ;vote as this;; they might as well wipo the House out-altogether. "Let the Government;' run : .the '..whole--; show,"> he added. He, however.'believed' that the. voice of the maj'ority; should be respected, members would-be justified 'S. in staying there.till after the New.' Tear; ~'; .-. ■: '■'. Mr. M'Laren .(Wellington-East)- rose'to speak, .but was interrupted; by the Prime 'Minister, who said: "Vote! yoto! It will take a' long : time 'to • take the 399 divisions.'"' ':..-' '■'■■ ■.;';'..■;■'•'.■'-."''.'■'.■ ■ '-..Mr.-.McLaren.".said■ hef would like •to have, an assura'neo from the Prime Minister that the positionVshonld cease. .-Mr.-' Buchanan (Wairarapa) held that :tho Prime; Minister was riot weU-advised to.tako uphis present position. : He considered it his' duty to .stand up to the ■last against such a position.. He "was bound to, protest in. the/strongest inait ner ..possibla. ■■:''■'■■■ ■ : f:,h: ;■'.;; - ..'.■•' :' Mr. Jennings (Tauniarunui) , mentioned that when the general Estimates wero before ,the HonsOiVho voted, for- tho striking out of the vote. He understood that the' salary...was,.:due;, so • he, would■ vota against ; -his. prbvious 'conviction in . the matter— (Criesjof Oh.!.Oh!)r-on tho understanding that the vote would not be rehewod. ;■' -;:;.l v'-^/.v , ;■■:;";. ■' ■: '■/'■■[.. ...' ■ .i'-.Mr. Hogan'fWanganui) said.the Hoiiso ,would be quite, justified in rescinding its ■former: decasion"if it thought fit: ''■'■: ■ \ .An hpn; 'member:,'.Kie; majorifr is not ■here;'»' : '..'.-. : v.- i '''-.'' : . ; -v-i'V:''"-.:. r . :: -';'':-.'!>,.-■..'■ ••■■-' ..•■• ? ■Mγ.'>Hogan:":U;'there 'had, been a full House, -it would. not have been carried in the..first-instance. ; ■ ;. ; ..-!■.■.,■•';.:■.-. ■• ■■ Mr.; Massey:' No.'.;:;-' ■■;'■■.'. :'-. >.; : '■":'.;-.':'

i/V;. ■ ; ; for 50 'Hours. ;.'; : i-- : .Mr. Herdman said there were GO members, in the House for the former division;.; and yet the vote, was carried by a ■'majority' , of 'ten,.,now,-: when members had gono to their homes,- and. the Prime Minister,could .carry:Us point, , he was fringing, the: ; matter-: upV ';again. ■-■ He for -one,, was: prepared to take 399 divif OM . and. ttat, he understood, would .Jake .50 hours-and'7 minutes ' ••■" - 1 ";Sir Joseph Ward:;l don't care'if ft takes hours .and 90 minutes. ,'■ .'■ Mr. , Buchanan:' I'lr be with.yon:' - ' : In: answer- to; an interjection • by' the : ftime,.Minister,/ Mr! SHerdnuui ■- said- •■; J-no inght hon. , gentleman has no regard ■for;principle utall;"- • / f • - '.■•"" ■v ™> : Chairman - member must .withdraw".those ■ words,'-..'.'.;::;; ■ :■,' ;■ ■■ ■0- ..■, V.ifr.;'Herdma£!;!:ypry : weUi': ; sir;' X'witfc .;araw/,them;'V''';;:'-/:v;(---,~,■>.;■,■"!'.'.; ■■.■.:■•'■'■ ■,*■'• ■:.-;';■;: Divisions Taken. '•'■:-:*'' ■'"■■•■ '.'ki ten' minutes four: a" division was' tafcen on Mr. Massoy's amendment which was; lost , ; byi>27. 'votes','to<:lß; ■■!■■:'<;■; ;:;:yi\ i/j^pther.;? division.:/:on':,,'an Amendment that, the .vote ■> be reduced by ..£398. was t0.17.- V . : :Mr.>Massey:-:drew' attention to : the 'fact not/voted."' j -'■■'. i:'vlJie|jChairmah. ; vl:-db not: see .the-'hoi.-■:U;v:-'iJf , .'■;> '• -"■v-ft'.jv"■;■», ■-. ■ -.• .' ;; Mr". Massey": He' is'in lobby.; ...Air. Eaurenson , ■ said Mr, lawry was paired with ; Mr.;Bachanan. .!- : ,' .. : .;.- : The : Prime Minister: Eecord his s Toie. ■. iirecorded;; "i f- :::■ Mr. Massey moved: that the ■ vote be re-' .duced;by;^£397irj; ;^:^'----^i:ii; - -: ■' '■ ;: ■ • epeaMiißV :to .'the ; amendment, said Gweriuhent'- memberswere; not''voting according to their-con-' victions,, .but according -to the instruc-■attna';.thej.-fiot-p/':;'.-^;.ii':;..'i;.vV-.-.K'{■;'['■;.•.:-':< ■ ..-■ J- & jSii , ; biißuUiedv ;: : ' : Sir : Joseph Ward 'said ; he j -was l follow-: ing the constitutional principle, and it : was not his fault if hon. members had : : gono; away.:; : , The, Government were -, not: going.toirepndiatoVtheir, agreement with- : Mr. was not going to be; bounced and ;bnllied,' even if he .stayed- , there: till the Day. of, Jndgment JBy all'. , meanslet them'goon with 399 divisions, ,and/como':back : aftpr. Christmas, ■ and go ■■;'■■■.■■■" •■'•■.'■; :, --. : .;.•..■•■■.■- : ■..■.'>'.■■ .. -.'. :Mr.-Ja& Allen said ion. members -who had gone;away, did. not, know, that this' ;mattor-'was' coming ,up. : : -■- . ■.•■; r-: JSir' Josepi' Ward;;':..,.l; :know quite a rtumber, of. members; who .know it .-"■'.; ■ 'jA 'voice: .Not: , Opposition members.,-' ! ■'Mr, , Jas.!:Allen J 6aid this was not being done as'a; threat '-■ It■: was being ■' done, simply "in/the interests:- of their con-' stituents.: He' pointed out that a House' of; 45 .f members liwas , now .being asked to* rcyorso:th6 .decision of a : House :of l>2members.';! :l ,:;;'.: ,;,■•;.■.-.. •;■.-■. ■ -'•.•.-,i>..-.■•■ ■- !.'The' ; amendment that the 'Vote be re-" ducedby..^?; , .was .defeated by 26.t0 19. ) : k. 'Suggestion : {o,,Report .Prbgross. ; :'SWhen ■ Mrfiive' had"moved;that the vote'-be,reduced:by y£39&, ... . . ~ :'.;.-''■.,,- Mr. ,; Massey : said,-it was: quite evident that there was a:serious deadlock. ■ He ; suggested that the -Prime ■ Minister; should"> .report', progress"- ;mombers might get homo tor the holidays. If the : . House decided "upon'.reinstating the:>oto after , , the holidays he would not object ■:.. v /The Prime: Minister-.replied; that; :he could . notjl-' report progress at present' , Whenthe fright;time:came he would do so,' If'the-Houso had voted; for a. re-' duction in the-Yote by"J£sit would have been accepted in the.spirit in which.it .:.'■■■, j-i;-,.; ■-~:.-' ■■;';

'.; Mr. Massby 'again statedVthat the House' did .not wishto deprive Mr.\ Beeves ; of : his .salary up : to.the time of the terfiina-' tion of'his .agreement : On the previous occasion 35 members voted against ■ - the: item,- and he know/six absent members who- would :have taken up the same ppsi-'' ■tipn.-.'/It.would,thus bo seen that a ma- \ jority of the whole of the members were ■opposed ,to item. ///'.. '.'.-,: ■ / ■;..!:: .Mr. .'Allen said:that, on the previous occasion Gl/members' were. , present; iiovr there: weroonly;4s members m.thp House ; ?? Suggestions far a Settlement.' /// : ■; Mr. vHerries suggested: that the vote ■ should. be reduced - by..: ;£l. as Van - indica-< tion that : the-salary/would' cease in. June.l next. :■ :.';///^..y/>v.;-; ; -.,: ■' .;;-, : . .' ■■ V, ; .'.'•'.,: :., Mr. ■; Allen suggested; a ■,conference/ between, the Prime •Minister, Mr.; Millar,. the" 1 Lbader* v of this .Oppositidn, and'.Mr.' Herdihan.': V.'..'- . u '.V .' ■ : , ' . ■i Sir. Joseph Ward' said he; would not agree to this. Whatever he would d0,.h0 would do/in; the.lHonse, not out'.- of it.; He; maintained -mat: he was/adopting, the constitutional -principle.,..: 'Xhe Opposi.tion could go on taking divisions till a; certain point was reached, -and then' he would ask the: House to adjourn over Christmas.' .Then; he-would ask '.them; to meet again anil come to.a decision.-. Hβ was not going; to be : put' in.a/false, position/ if members of iiis party were not , going rto stand by him becauso of the. late hour of vthe': : session:. The -financial'. advisor' must receive six months* notice of the termination of his position. .This: vote was for the .payment of the salary' for tho current financial..year,: and in June next he would give "the House an opportunity. of. reconsidering tho matter before any furthoi , arrangement could -.be.made... If the House vbted against : him, he knew wh.'vtAe.iwould: do. .;/ ■".. During further discussion, the .Prime Minister, said that the, appointment ..was authorised by Parliament; itself, - .',,...: -■ Mr. - Alien , :' But the* authority .was only. for. , twolve months/until /March .31, .lW By the vPublic/'Eeyennes;.Act,.; the :,jiay-. nieiit was. oiitended' till 'Juneiiast, and m the 'short:.sossiori;,further.; authority-, was .given until'Octobor ' last, only. ",-;■:"■ ■'■'. : VBeplying to remarks by the Hon. .T. Y. Duncan,;Mr. .Buchanan;said it would be' ; easy.-.to find..pr&edente/for, .what :Mr."

Massoy now proposed. According to the Journals of the House for 1890, several items appertaining to the Agent-General's office were reduced. ' One: of the motions in question was proposed by Mr. Duncan himself, v; (Laughter.) Out 'of what sourco did ilr.nuncan: think the money due to officials whom it was then proposed to do away with'was to be taken? Mr. Massey, later, said that it was evident the Prune Minister wanted the wholo vote and .nothing but the whole vote. -He would suggest that the vote be reduced by'a sufficient amount to indi.cato that Mr. Reeves should be relieved of the position. Sir Joseph: No, I can't accept that. "Wait Till. June." When tho proceedings were resumed in tho evening, The Prime Minister stated that he was still vnlling that the position in conncclion . with the ■ matter should bo kept perfectly clear till the House had an opportunity to fully consider tho whole matter 'in June next. Mr. 'Massoy " said the item was originally brought down on a Saturday evenmg, when members were in a hurry to get away to their homes. When it was brought down the Prime Minister did not explair who was to be the financial adviser noi anything about the position On tho finit opportunity that the House had a proper chance to consider the matter. ;it i struck" out the item. Tho point -nasi this. That a majority of the members had said that Mr.: Reeves should not 1 .occupy the position. He was willing that Mr. Beeves should get proper notice, and full salary till his engagement was-terminated.. Sir Joseph: No committal will be made beyond June. Mr. Harries: But if in June tho House decided 'th&t: he .'should .not hold the position, it would then be necessary to give him six months' notice. Sir Joseph: I would keep the petition perfectly clear. Mr. Massey: It is a question of principle, withi us, whether we should have Parliamentary control or Executive control. A Passage .at Arms. Whilst Mr. Herdmau was. speaking, Mr. Poland interjected, with* the result that there was -a sharp passage at arms. Mr., Herdman declared that to some members a matter of principle. such as that under notice was of no consequence. Mr. Poland- Bosh. ; Mr. Herdniaiu I am saying what is the truth. Mr. Poland: Ok! Mr. Herdman Tf you can't stand it, you ought to go out. After further toncroversy Mr. Herdman wont on to say it was not surprising that a common species of person Mr. Poland: I nso to a point of order. Tho Chairman said that the remark mnst be withdrawn, and this was done. "Don't be ashamed to speak up," said Mr. Poland, as Mr. Herdman proceeded. Mr. Herdman: Tou will find that I can do that. (Applause ) Mr. Phillipps (Waitemata) followed with a vigorous demand for a return to Parliamentary control. "We have had enough of Executive control j let us return to true democratic government," he shouted, amid ironical applause from a section of the Ministerialists. Upon a division, the amendment was rejected by 25 votes to 16. Mr. Okey (Taranaki) moved the next amendment—that the, vote be reduced by i£395.' J Too Late to Catch a Steamer. Mr. Hemes (Tauranga), at this stage, ii j ?l m l' -??Z Ed to re P° rt Peeress. He held that if the House adjourned for half an hour, the leaders of both sides might come to an arrangement. He would not like tho sitting to continue over Christmas Day.

The Hon. T. Mackenzie! Ifs too lato to catch a steamer now. Tho motion to report progress was lost by 29 votes to 12. By 26 votes to 16 the amendment was rejected. , ' Again Mr. Herries morad to report progress. Ho hold that an adjournment was tho only way to seraro a settlement Members on his sido wanted an assurance that the employment of Mr. Reoves would not- bo continued. It would be a miserable 6pectaclo if tho Houso woro to sit on Christmas Day, and tho people of the country would not liko it. The motion was rejected by 28 votes to Mr. Divo •(Egmont) then moved that tho vote be reduced by ,£39}. According to Mr. Taylor (Thames), the opposition to' tho vote ,was in repudiation of an honest debt Mr. Massey: We are willing thai Mr. Reeves should get his salary to date, and .2200 in lieu of tho sis months' leave of absence. Mr. Taylor conld not bavo heard what he had previously stated. Mr. Taylor: Yes, I did. . Mr. Massey: Well, yon have gono down' m my estimation. Mr. Taylor: That docs not matter. Mr. Massey: I am afraid that the Mr. Taylor who will go back to the Thames will bo a different Mr. Taylor from tho one who came hero three months aco. Mr. Taylor: I don't think so. Mr. Massoy'added that thi> position was forced on tho Opposition; they had either to sink their principles or raiso their objection. Mr. J. Allen contended tout if a sacrifice had to be made it ought to be mado by tho Government. "Mr. Witty (Eiccarton) at this stage de-' dared that as so much timo was being wasted he would feel it to be his duly to voto with tho Government / . Mr. Massey , * Intentions. Mr.' Massoy said that if tho Prinio Minister had-proposed to voto Mr. Beeves i! 750 to campleto his engagement not the slightest objection would havo been raised. Apparently Mr. Witty was unable to discriminate botweon the payment ot a debt which was owing jnd tho reinstatement of a vote that had been knocked out He (tho speaker) had agreed to concede as much as possible, but further than that ho would not go. It was, his intention to test tho opinion of tho public on the question in a way that the Primo Minister little thought. Sir Josephs iNo threat will:influence mo.

Mr. Massey, who denied that his assertion was a threat, asked if the Primo Minister wonld accept a voto for the whole amount which would bo due to Mr. Keevcs and notify Mr. Reeves at once of the decision of the House that his services should be dispensed with. Sir Joseph:, I would not bo prenared to do what I look upon as a highly improper thing. " ' . ' Mr. Manaer (Wh&ngaroi) said the House should adjourn until next week, 60 that a full .House could '.voto on tho question. Mr. Horrks quoted recorde to show that particulars relating to the raising of loans were formerly, given much more fully than had been the case of; lato. So behoved wo were paying moro for our loans now than in the past. The Hon. J. A. Millar said the Prime ■Minister had stated that no commitment would be mode beyond next June. Hon. members wero therefore preventing a full Parliament being consulted. Hon. gentlemen wero talking against what they professed to desire. They were trying to forco the dismissal of. the financial advisor.

Mr. Massey Defines His Attitude. At 10.30 p.m. Mr. Massey was pointing out that what. thoy objected to was advantage, being taken of the minority. They did not object to the payment of a salary or a liabilite , that had been incurred.' "I take the full responsibility for what T am doing.- , 1 know perfectly well what I am doing," Mr. Massey concluded. '_1t doesn't matter to me whether I miss my Christmas dinner, but I am sorry for other people who may bo inconvenienced. ; ./. Nobody 'regrets this necessity more than I do.- We are not fighting for the more. deletion of a JEIOO vote, but for a great principle, and this trouble has been forced upon us." Progress Reported. The • Prime -Minister said ho -was ; only asking the House < to ■ undo a wrong. Mr. Massey; Have you any other object in asking for tho money but paying Mr. Beeves? . The Prime Minister: No.' I only. want, to ; carry out ■ an engagement. Mr.' Massey: Do you want to reverse tho vote of a fortnight ago? Sir Joseph Ward: I said bofore, and I say now, that I do not want to go against the decision of the" House. Not only did he not regret his action, but if the country did not cany out the engagemont, the country would be placed in ' a very dishonourable position. He would movo to'report progress and adjourn until 2.30 pjn. on Tuesday. 'All the members- would be advised of the position, and he would ask the House when it mot again to pass this vote,'and thus carry out an. engagement ,that was enter.

ed.inio with the authority of Parliament in 1908 and L%9, and was in the Appropriation Bill of the short session this year. He would move that the Chairman report progress, and ask leave to eit again. '■'.. ■ ■ Mr. Ell suggested that the motion should not be pot immediately, as a proposal might.be made by some Opposition members for an arrangement with the Prime Minister. Mr. E.; H. Taylor (Thames) said the Opposition were seeking to bring about the repudiation of an ordinary He would rather go oat of Parliament than bo associated with such a party. "I have never seen a purer-minded or more honest leader than Sir Joseph Ward," he declared, "and I am going to stand by him." . ■ A count made shortly before-11 p.m. showed that there were 24 members in the llouso—about as many as had boon present at any time sinco the sapper adjonnimont. Tho motion to report progress was carried on the voices, and the Honso adjourned until 2v30 p.m. to-morrow. THE VOTING ANALYSED, Those, who voted for the strikim; cut of the vote to Mr. Eeoves, when the question first came before the Houseyon the Consolidated Estimates on December 3—numbered 35. They ■were— Ministerialist— OppositionArnold -..'■■• Allen i Clark , Anderson . Davey Buchanan Glover Buick. Hanan . Divo Hogg , Drmcan, X. Jennings : Fisher Poole Hardy Russell . Hordman Thomson, J, C; Herrics Witty Hine Lang ! Independent— Mandcr Luke Massey H'Laren ..Newman , Noswoithy Okey Eearco i l'hillipps Scott * ■ Thomson, G. M. Wright The 25 who voted against the- striking out of the vote wero all Ministerialists: Brown, Buddo, Carroll, Colvin, Ell, Field, Forbes, , Fowlds, Hall, Hogan, Laurenson, Lawry, Macdonald, R. MTCen-ae,--T. Mackenzie, Millar, Poland, Heed, Boss, Seddon, Sidey, Smith, Stallworthy, Tβ Rangihiroa, and Ward. ' following is the division 1 list on iho motion, moved, on Friday afternoon, that the vote of .£4OO on the, Supplementary ..• Estimates" be reduced by e£399:•— - - ~ . ■'..'. For the Against the amend- .;,„ M s >- ■ ■" ment (27). Allen .■" . Buddo -..-■. ' t Buchanan Carroll I Davey < Craigie I Duncan, J; Duncan, T. ; Dive • : .-. .-•' . Ell ■ •-'■.-■■ ; Gulirie , Field I Hardy ::V. ; ' Grahani ■ ■■' '■ ■ Herdman '; Hall '■".-• Herriea . ■-~... Hogan, )■■:■"■' Lang,_ ' -'■ ; Jennings- . ■ ', Luke - Laurenson ■ ■ Mliarea , . . Lawry • I . Mander Macdonald i Massey ', M-Kenzie, R. ! Nosworthy Mackenzie, I, ' Okey '•• MUlar' i Phillipps •- Ngata • • ■ ' Wright , Poland ; :' ■:> :- : . • Boss. " '■ '• ■: Seddan ; ' i Z 1 . -.'■- :■■.-.> : - Sidey . • Smith- .-■. ' : , p ■ Stallwoithy ■', . :, . . ~-■•■- , Steward i' ■.--•-■ - ", ... Taylor, E. Hj Teßangihiroa ' . ■•■'■"■■■ -■: Ward '■ -a; ■■■ '•■>,. : . A later amendment, to reduce the vo* by ,£395, was lost by- 26 votes to 16. The 18 ayes abovo were reduced to 16 tj tho absence of Messrs. Hardy and J. Duii-' can. The 27 noes above were/reduced Kγ] two by the absence of Messrs. Craigie' and Sidoy.. The vote of Mr. Eaihau was added, making 26 in aIL : Of the eleven Ministerialists. who originally voted against the proposal,: the following nine were absent or abstained from repeating, their opposition, on .Fri-' day:—..--. .' ■;■'-' ■■'.- ;.v,- ' ~ \.-.-.----J' Arnold, Claik, Glover, Hanan, Hogg, Poolo, Riissoll, J. C. Thomson, and Witty. . The two. others were .Messrs. Davey and Jennings. Mr. Davey maintained his opposition to the proposal. Mr, : Jennings changed his vote. ' ■.. ' , ' Messrs. Luke and ITLaren opposed tho vote throughout' " . : ,

THE -.OUTLOOK. Jnst before midnight the; Opposition telegraphed to all the absent members of their party, except Mr. Bollard—who has no'f been very well' lately—to return to Wellington. They will be in plenty of time if they are hero by Taesday evening. .'■ ■■ . ■ , . .' :■ So far as the Opposition, are concerned, the struggle, it seems, can be prolonged almost indefinitely. The position now is that the Speaker is in the chair, and anyone can move a motion to intercept Supply. This will ; give the Opposition an opportunity of making a number of speeches before the House gets into Committee of Supply again, and once in Committee they can, go on moving, tho remainder of their 399. amendments.. 'To each of these amendments each member can speak four times,,for-ten minutes on each occasion. , In ■ addition motions to report progress and • motions that the chairman leave the chair can be moved, discussed, and divided upon. : During the discussion on JPriday night tho Minister for Public Works, in answer to a remark about coming back after Christmas, threatened nn amendment . of the Standing Orders to\ provide i<sr the closure. Asked, yesterday what' ho w.ould do in such:a. case, Mr.; Massey said.he felt sure the House would never agree to the gagging of the people's representatives. So far as he was concerned, he said; he would be quite prepared to stay here for a. month to prevent such a thing.

A'PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT REVERSE. V " THE SIDEY INCIDBNT." • The. position in connection wiih the vote. 1 proposed.; by the Government. recalls the situation created by Mr. Sidey*s success in carrying an amendment against the Government in connection with the State Guaranteed Advances Bill. On November 25, Mr. Sidey's amendment, which destroyed the provision that local bodies' loan sinking funds should be handed to the Public Trustee, was carried by-32 votes to 30. The following Ministerialists voted .against the Government :—Arnold, Baume, Buxton, Field, Glover, Greenslade, Hall, Han'an, Poole, Sidey, and Steward. ■ On November 26 the Prime. Minister succeeded; on a motion to, recommit the olause' affected,: but his subsequent motion to restore the clause to its original form was defeated—again by a majority of two., -The following Ministerialiste voted against the Government:—Arnold, Baume, Buxton, Glover, Pople,: and Sidey, Messrs.'. Field,; Greensla3e, [ Hall, Hanan, and Steward absented . themselves. ; The Prime Minister; succeeded in finally gaining his. point. : ■ . ,