LOCAL BODIES PROTEST.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 695, 21 December 1909, Page 5

LOCAL BODIES PROTEST.

( ~l TRAMWAYS BILL THE MINISTER WILL PERSIST | A large and' lnlluential deputation waited I Bpon tho Minister for Publio Works (tho Hon , E. M'Kenzio) yesterday mprnmg to protest ' against the new Tramways Bill' The deputa-' tion compnsed the Mayor of Wellington (Dr A Ki Nowraan), the Mayors of Pctone (Mr J , VI. M'Ewanl.'Mjnmar (Mr 0. J, Crawford), Karon (Mr C I- Daserit), and members ' of their i- councils Tho Lower Hutt -.Bprpugh Council and the Hutt Valley Tramway Board woro also and members of Pnrhament for several other cities and boroughs appointed fpr tho various local governing bod les Tho Auckland Llee'rie Tramn-w Com pany was represented bv counbel (Mr M Myers) and by tho general manager (Mr P M Hansen) The Town Clork o£ Wellington (Mr J R Palmer) read telegrams from the Dtinedin end Chns-tohuroh Citj Councils, tho Christohnroh Tramway Baard, and tho Napier nnd Wanganui Borough Councils, supporting tho views of the deputation Mr H J H Blow (Under Secreturj for Public WorX<o and Mr E W Ho'mes (Chief Engineer) wero in at tendance * Mr J V Luko,' M P , in introducing the deputation, said 'hit it had been instigated bj ihe Mayor of Wellington, who considered, with his counoij, that it struck at the rights of local self government He. (Jfr Luke) would suggest that, as the whole trouble appeired ro be about'brakes on. tram cars, it might bo met by legislation empowering the Inspection ol Maohmery Department to supervise all tram ■tfoy brakes _> ' Dr. Newman's Remarks Dγ Newman said the deputation had come to protest againsb a Bill which robbed tho municipal councils pf much power The Wellington Citj Council had raided half a million of monev for tramwajs, and had guided and governed them satisfactorily The I\el ilmgton tramways last jear earned three time as many passongers as the New Zealaad v rail ways The equipment is modern and up to date Ho wanted, on beha'f of the council and the citizens, to make every cßort to pro test against an infringement of what thej considered their rights Tho Government per nutted the council to build the tmnwajs un der certain reguhtions, which wero adhered to, the oity raised the necessary mono} and owned the tramways ' The Minister Do jou want a special licence to kill peoplo? t The Mayor I am surp-ised at a Minister »sking such a question I challenge jpu t° shpw that thei'Oi are fewer accdents iu pro portion to the number of carried on- any tramray 6jstem on ours I Tenturo tq «ny that there are ivsrer accidenls on the Wellington tramways ttan/ on tho Government railways, in proportion to the number of peoplo carried This Bill is going too far It puts too much under the conhol of tho Minister, and vie may not aUajs ha\e «s good a Minister as yourself (Laughter) The Minister (You're trying to get at my soft side now The Mayor I bad the pleasure of silting in the House with von for some jonrs, and I did not know you had a soft side (More laughter ) Dr Newman wont on to «aj that if a poll ■wore taken, the feeling would bo overwhelmingly strong against the Ministry interfering with the tramways All along the line, tho local bodies wore being crushed and hampered Everything was done bj Ordar-m Council When representations were made to the Minister, it was stated in reply that ho was acting on esport advice, and thus it appeared that a large city like Wellington was ruled by oivil servants—who might be all right, but there were civil servants and cnil servants As soon as pno entered tho deor to speak to some civil servants, one found that the} were antagonistic. He thought tho BUI should ha\e been submitted to the Municipal Association of New Zealand, and speaking chiirman of that body, he would bo. prepared, if the Bill ■!■;■. ;o'f. :, - : "■- the-associationvit!;mqntK''.'e;arlie^ ! 'th , an^usual, 3 so ■■; ■.?.-, •'.'/Clity.yCpjJicil.. and' the/i.citiisens' J :'were;. ; :, stjongly ,'; 1 opposed'",to iithe,, ; Biliii-,'He,' : asked,; the. 1 Minister '■','■:. '.tqfppstppne.'it;fbr..thisi','sess.ipn.;;'vH-V :• j ;.;.:'j■';■ :■

A Chhstchurcli Protest Mr G. W. Russell, MP, opposed the Bill on behalf of the Christchurch Tramways Board an.d the people of Chnstchurch If the Government ronsideied it necessary to exercise conteol over any privately owjied tramway they jmijjht do so >wii:hout v intejrferiiig TOth systems that were publicly owned ■» The Bill proposed to override the power of locifl bodies which had large responsibilities, and which had nev«r beqhtnnable fo find men, to face those responsibilities So far a Section 2 of tho BilL/nas concerned, the Government alleady possessed the powers nara«d, so far is inspection of trams up to the time of their starting running was concerned As to &>c- ' tion' 3, if it were passed, the local bodies might as well merely aopoint accountints and managers and giyo up all their other functions It would by turning ■such a bod} as the Chnstchuroh Tramnqvs Board a mere cipher _ There was no obiection to the powers of the Government up to the time when the trams i had been formed and laid, and were ready to begin rtrainng ; Miramar's Views, Mr C J Crawford (Mayor of Minmor) also protested against the. Bill Tht Miramar tramways wore tun. by the Wellington City Council, whose .officers ivere experts picked for the work, anfl more competent than anv the Government was likelv to cnlplpy There ha.d never, been an accident, on the Minnm lines He objected to tho power t-o be given-to a Government ofkoial to override the, Order-in Council- under which the tram ways were started Suppose a<Go\ernment official were to say they must not run tranw through the Seatoun tunnel, where would they be then? On general grounds Jlr. Crawford protested against taking away the powers of local bodies, a, ptocess which was contrary to the of progress in other countries j A Dunedm Difference Mi G 11 Thomson,* iIP, said th'e Dune oin Tramnajs were, m his opinion, the best in rfew Zealand, and he wished to protest stron"lv against the proposals to iveaken local contiol" The people of Dunedm were strongly opposed to the Bill -i , ' ( Mr II ~A rs o !d > U P>. said be wished to state thdt he did not agree with the views expressed by for Dunedin ' l Auckland , and Elsewhere ,M* C H Paolo, MP.mrged that some legislates power would ha\e to be taken to forco the Auckland Tramivavs Cbmpany to inetal proper bnke' He quoted cases of injury to hiotdrmen on the Auckland trams , touncilloi 1 balllugcr (Wellington) mon tioned thst glnse screoni, which tho Govern mont msistcl on at Auckland, wero just installed at Wellington, and this was done on his own suggestion flo supported the protest against curtailing thd Jfiwer of lou.l bod.es Mr JvT Hogan, Jfd', said tho "Wanganui Borough Council had atked him to oppose tne B'U' Hβ thought the Bill went too L, and should be amended in several clauses, though 1 " 1 * °& eot to of it )??,. (Auckland), endorsed the views of Mr Poole hoinethmg should thVsin Aucklai "l >u the direction of Dt Newman said that the Auckland people r»™*>•/■ , he thpnght-handed over their t»™i S tx f £ 0I ?m$ lUat was their funeral Ho submitted that the lofcal govern S' (»,» ii T citles * hom not be penal lsed for AuclJand's mistake Znl mpanys ' *«« onite eft H£m^ n ««w!.Tt. I,a 2 y vai P«Pared to change W fhL 1?« d te d <? % a ««,f«« consideraoh S^i* , . steif^ToX of the loc4l "*™*, - Reply. e J. he Master, m reply-said ,tha deputation was , suffering fifomjan attack if false alarm JJUI to givo the Government any power that it had not got at tho proFtmt time gr Nowman Then why introduce it? Tho Mmlator, We have the power, but we don't want to enforce it in a way that would be Mr .HTConzio then read part of Soction 372 cf,th,o Municipal Corporafions Act, which provides y that> If, m Oio opinion of tho Governor in Coirncil, a munioipal conn«u wufully or substantially lofuses te act in

the...performance,ori exorcise,'.oil.its', duties'., or, powers undortho Act/the Governor, may make such .projrision'as'lho thinks-fit-for-the ■ per-such-functions.; v,. : ;' "'Continuing, the' Minister said nothing in-.the ;Bill was ;i to,-curtail.'■ the:'. junctions' of 'localbodies. , ;lt was' introduced, especially .''to : dear with; tho Auckland ' v trauiways,- and ithero ;wds -nothing'in it.that ; would',harass tho local 'governing'.bodies.. Ifo /was prepared <•,to go through.* th?.-Billy-, and;if they could show him anything, in.it that' was unfair ".to': ;tho' local bodiea-he; would alter U.. TJip: 'Christchurch ' tramways would:'not -bo affected >by the; Bill, fts'.thoro.'woro no heavy grades'.there. ..At Dunedin two..collisions had occurred latqly, owing todefectivq.brakes.'aifd.ibwasa porfect miracle that: many were hot killed. -There must bo".;sorae .controlling'."authority,' ,ahd .that authority in-this" country must be. the Govenior.-lir-Council. ;AThe: public': Works' engineers: were; quite: competent,, and , -behind them , there 'wore, the Minister, tjia. Cabinet, and .ultimately Parliament to appeal'.to.'; -The inspectors ''appointed' by'-the Chief.; Engineer, and-reported toi'him;';'Tho .Bill : was not intended to: apply to': Wellington, or, Diincdin. ■~. ■ ,;Dr,':Newman: Bi|t■ it does. ."■'.-. .'■/.., : ' ! iThe'i'.Jlinister:•: I; ■ knowv' it, .does. ;It. .rrta'y;ba'necessary to'iapply it in"those places sdmo'day.'-Thero' was .nothing, to,.be-, alarmed at; One would imagine: that he was gd "down and tako-possessiou'of the: Wellington Citj-jCouncil chambers. '■ ;.. ■':■.''■ " : - •■ :. ..• ■', Dr. ■'Newman':"' That's 'what' tho Bill means. • ! i'he ■■''Minister: No, '.it'does 'not. Vlh-the:.'in-terest'pf j the public:6afety, .'he..had made, up his mind to ; pass legislation which woyld'cause proper brakes" to be put on tho Auckland cars. Ift ' regard r .to .'.Dunedin, tho' ; brakes, were: good "enough' fpr: the grades,- and in -Wellington the best-^brakes'that could'bevhad for;the requirements, wore.in .'use; ' J3A already had power;'to stop .overy car.'!in Auckland, Wellington, -or any. other .city in the . Dominion, .but: that'was a'stop no 'would like to., take.' -The I Bill, .wrinlJ .enable- him ■to bring 'gentle ; presi.!sur'e: to' 'bear- , so as.'to- cause; those, who "were i ninning-the; trams'to do"- : wljat they oiight; to j do.:-:':-- - ''-." ■;'• / ; . : ' ,:: ':'. -r.-.V '.:'' ■■'■ ;':.;;A'- '■'.-■:]<■■ \:. ::l ■'•. Views of j Members-of '.Parliament. ; ' '•Mr. Fisher,'M.P.,''suggested.that'niunicipally-.own^'traniways-shduldi.be: exempted.from .'tho Bilk :'lt\would then ap'p.ly'-ijoi^only'.to Auckland,; but, to .'.any- .placo.: that- might','in: the future ihavetrams'runiby.a: companyi ,' ; ..■■.Mr'..AVilford,.M.lV.tsubmittedVthat tbe-Biir. .would not necessarily become a -local. Bill, if t its application.-were restricted: to: Auckland.'; .He quoted-:a'- proyisionVof,-tlia\Ministers; own .Works..."Amendment, Act, w.hich'. specifically, v applied •■ '•; to ''boroughs, . toyn .'districts, ."and;.thq'::Cpunty,. : of;SeliTy,n. r ''V''. ::.:.."...:. :< the. Minister.' said. the. Standing:■ Orders were .straineVi.to.a.lldWthe claiiso'togp in.- :'-■■;.■.' .' -.-' Mr.-:*-Wilfbrd;said.it'.wonU'be:n': mistake.'.'to. . -... municipally. and ; privatUy.'Oivned; :tramways.-.->■:-. '■.■■■'-'■ ~,'"' < ;M.r.:'.Myers'\said.-his •clients,:;the..Auckland .Tr.airiwttys ■.Coriipany.vhad:. ■not/.Sad' an "opportunity, answering:: the - ex ;partr. -statements tih'd : .reports to -the"-Minister.::regarling,.tbe brakes .used' at 'Auckland.-. Hβ■ suggested .that the.Bill should--bo,-dropped '.it-, this stage, ;»nd further, correspondence '.with .tho \ company; should- take .place!'.: If'this .were dorie, 'ha really didTnot -think there':w'ould.-Vbe, any.'trouble.' ■Mt:'.T;.'E: Taylor,'M.P^'said-he , .-thought that, ■■inless'.-municipally-owned-f tramways: -.were eionipted-'from-.the" would; be/, no charicp loi vgetting. .it, throngh : the -House; this se"ssioiw.:.;%.<: : : :.'■-"'.: ":.-•',,:'':"'.::': .'■•;: ■".'.',-.'■■■'.. . ■i-.\-The i : : ffinis^ ; :'said'-'-He'!wbuld-''lii£e'' , out .that : .uny ; , municipality- conld :sell or , lease its .to 'a company 'to-inorrow. , 'Tho -Bill was-necessary in the public- interest throughout tho 'Dominion, and. ho, had, no,doubt : he would bo. : -able, to' convinco,a'majority.''in'Parliament that; it'wpuldnot injure any'.'public body.'■> -;;Dr.Nevv-man: : Wo,can't.s.ellH'he;trains;with-out'.au.Order-in-Co.uncil..'•■■;>, •-. :-'■ "'■.-.•'-..'■. •■■ .'/rhe: Minister:*.Tliat.might; ; l)e:gotVoyef. : -Hβ cbuld's.easily- : underatand the ■. Mayor;' of -, Wellingt6n';ha.vinga giievaEcei',-.;He'.(tho .Minister) s had. roeeiy ed two■ applications'?.to ■hangers, .on;-the:.Brooklyn .•'•.oars. ,; ; ■Hβ;,had ,referrediithe.- matter . tqv :Cabinet : ; anS • Cabinet had;?v(ifnsed .to(, grant,,the Irequest,^which approve;! -ny :a' resolution.,of.the-'-City.-. Council. /rhe'.;BillV',was :; necessMy: .in--Wellington-''and Puuediir'aMxAuckland, 1 . -though (nqt.;ini Christ-. church V; ::■"■'■. .■■•.'■''■■■■'■■.''."":■■■'■ - : .■•'»;■-' ' •,. '■'.- '•■:- : :..Mr. J/iSmith'''(Wellington:Citj Council); said , : that the Bill-went', further' than ■ the:,clause; of th-i' : Miihicipal: : Corporations;Act'quoted :by the Minister," inasmuch; aa", it' took away.- the initia- . tivo - from" the 'city • couribils.-- : s The;. Government. wanted.»to hinder, the/.inunicipalities'; carrying ' people .ir'pm.ipiio district.'to . anpthef, 'because, the. Gdye'ritme.nt'rown'ed-the. railways. He'had ip'specto'd'tramway' systems'' ii : different : parts b?>''tHeVwoHd ) -,'a'ftdfhadfTidden ; qhvthe- i Aucklaiid trams ■ancl.-'didr-not.see' 'anythinc;'wiojg /.with 'ijiem';'•'.'.' nb.w6yer',,(gobd'':.the.: i ;br»kes': iaqcidont" mfght. d'eepr jironghi a:' niotorman losr ■ing>his:-pre&'enco'/6f,mindi'i'as--;had'occurred iii :-Wellingto!i;:' Momber3 !v ,of .the^-Wellington-. , City 'Couiieil! did ;a ■ great', of work gratuitously in'ithei'pubHc^j^er^t^.aiid^wew'.ieojte.rcipaWle 1 of.-miinatjin'g..,-:ciTic',aJfairs:' wHh';-itoeir;-,own,-.'e ! x-' .port.- pfficials^'v"i^.-i- : ."-* = ''.''l- -"•-- ' ; ; : '-■■"■''v ;: ' ; v"- , /• :Th(i:i>Miiiister • repeated. that there -was '■'. rib-, thing in the Bill\to : ,&ke:p_ow«rs away , from'the : loiil v bodiei!. ; '■••lt >'was; designed';'■ to -. make • them use,'their,:;power-.and ;their intelligence. '■'.Befpre ..laking' any: detion"' under J -the; Bill, ,the 'Minister wpuld.'.give;roaspnable.notice.:; '■■■■■■ :£•' --Ih.iurtlier reply itb I)r. Newman'i, the , l£in-. istor ;said,-{he;.was•'willing, : to:/hpjd .back;the: Bill : .soithat-.a'. select , could, tabo evi.denqb ■ froin'rth'e Wellington'. v City,' buf'.the •aommittea i ,niu3t.;deal'with 'the'.'Bill. .within'-21:hours;;;.I' ;: :''' : -& ■'•■■' : '/,' ;: ::'HV' :