THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 678, 1 December 1909, Page 5

THE HOUSE.

DEATH DUTIES BILL.

■: .); ; : 'COMMiTTEEjSTAGE'ConcIuded; ; :;-j '' ft ; i^^ n ,i}^?^^^»> etl yesterday afternoon : l ■■•.:.;.,. the Death,-Duties;Bill was considered in Com- •■,.-.... mittee. •-.v::i'...y;':'.'io.iv'A,"--'.-V ; .-■■■, -; -.■■■■■■; V| •'-:: /-Mr % • BACME ■ (Auckland v-East) approved 'the ■;.,•.■ -principle of, placing Itaxation, on the individual :.,,-. .; benefit Tcceived'aiixellas on the whole amount 1 V ' Jj: : |*\'Mtete^*ut/:qbjeoted;.ihat'-"the-;whqle.. ; pf. , - ■- . thb-.actualttaSvtion was practically-imposed on' :■-:. ...persons\of,--moderate.'ih'eans. , They should 0n- ... ; and'.not: penalise the'"■■breaking. Hip 'of •■ 'estates in v a person's '-■ life-time •'• "■ ' ■ '■'' : ' ■ ■:■: iM^AIIEN/iXWellington■vEnst) thought ..■■^c ! : ; that,the;sjadnahoai,bf;the-deatU"'' , dntios : Bhoiild .. ■■.;■;■■ liqincreased so.as .■•t6:b'eaf .more" lieavily on' tho ■..■ : ; : : larger, estates.;- '■-■?■-■■■•■ r-, : ■.-.■•■ .;::•;••■.' ..•■■■■ ■■ : ;■> Mbj{ PEAECE (Patea)'said; that ;if '■ ths duties , .. on tile larger estates; wore made eicessivfl the , -f; : ■effech:w.qnld:,l)e ; ,-.t0..:. : drW0--.ieepital out of .'the ;.. ■■■•■. Country., ■•, ■■.■ ■■•"•■■.•.... ■■'.lip; ■•.'.•,.;.■. .■. ■•; ;-.; .-.- ~-. ... .■ ; BA^MBSsaid^he''.'■frail quite 'willing to ■■■■ ■..-.-,.■ anve .capital away;.that'.was'not. prepared- to ... ,; pay ;ft :fair proportion .to.ithe revenue of,;this '.',. t '■ I wintry.;; v Pi'operteexisted; only- by'. the ■ will •.- .•• v pi:-™ ; cpoimunity-f and. while ..if: was to ;the ■';■■■ ■' benefit-.of the communitj; ; ';'.■■'■•'Y) ;t '■■ ' •'■ .': -■■■!r:;.'ilr/. iPßAJßCM;;«Elained'''tWt.''He-was"iii;.fa- ■:: tout: of ,on the 'larger .. 'estates;-but not. 'iindulyi ■■;■'■ ■' : : l 'P). Stallworthy, v •■ ;;declared- t tiat ;the,,BillV:increased' the duties' v. '~- -i;.on' small; were- at- pre- :■; J !:.Payment i o|:Duty^in;Rei^ra^q^ :\.:' -'|^ ; ■•ifr/HEEDMAIf that' ;.:;; i: the 'trustees i'pfvlarge' 'estates might'.: be .called .-.' ■; : , npqn to ptty.-ac,-'snqit'notice ; .£so,ooo,or JBGO.OOO • ;' );iri he Ranted ito'/ know {how 1 ; they I'.: ;-,V;.w|inld'..dq.;it; Ahere' any financial institu- /,-■■:■"'.-. tion in the country;whichi would lend;thorn that .:','::^:'-/MqratP/ : ' ; Ck^d::tte^'Qoyeri)meiii^do'' r sb?'^'Ht'

suggested that;a mightbe allowed Lto pay-moneys into a fund'during-his tffe-time. I-which.-: would go., to .defray the duties at his death. . -He' -asked, .also .'whether,-, in such, a [ case,■the,Government would take land:instead iot money. ■.''-' ■■~-: V . ■■ ; : - I.'.Tho PEIME : .MINISTEE/quoted .figures". to Show that for estates under .£IOOO considerable ~relief vronlil,b>.-'afforded. 1 --. For the larger porVμ « «^ ate s-that /came'into thehands ot the Department .thero was a reduction. The further increase, on laTge estates; which. Mr. ifaunie recommended, would probably drive people out ;of the conntry with their money. ao wanted-a Bill from which thoy would get fevnnn en " e, \ nd '"'i t ' was io ; get J:isp,ooo moro by this measure. The difficulty of trustees referred to b.v Mr. Herdman was met by Clause (2), which stated that the administrator shonld have the same power of I selling any, real or personal property: vested , in.hinv as .in of a sale for'the-pay-ijnentof the: debts of, the deceased.'• He intended to amend-this clause, to make it more workable. , :." ."". ' '■■■ • . -■ . . ..- ,;:Mr. JAMES. ALLEN. (Bruce), 'capital -might' be driven away-by a further ■increase oh large.estates..-. The clause to assist trustees •to raise the duties would: not' meet tie case,' as the trustees might hot be able to.rais? a mortgasc.-. If. the. estate and sue cession duties..were added together, there would be, avconsiderable increase in the taxation on: several of the smaller estates.; Definition of "Child,"' -'A • .: ; - "■', i' Th , e *RTME MINIStER moved an amend-' : 2,: to 'insert the folloHihg de--1 .^-■ Child' includes a. 'step-child, and Siso. includes the widow of ,a son or adopted ■SOn. *,■"■■:'.,;■--, •.';'. . .-; -.. ;■■■,: '■ .:. , ;, ';' Mr. HOGG said he had never heard a widowi palled a child before. ',"■■■ ■ 'Mr./JAMES--ALLEN suggested : . inserting. . widower -of a danehter." .:■ :•'■' ■:•'• The. PEIME MINISTER replied that ; there was every-.reason .why-a widower should keepins • daughter-in-law, but no reason why a widower shonld have-to keep his son-in-law. :,The Prime 'Minister's amendment was carneq, , : ; . .-'. . ; ••■. ■,■■!■' -.-.-. • . ■••-■' Property. Subject to Estate Duty, Mr. ALLEN bbiected'.to Clause 5 (1) b, wnich : . states that property, subject to estate twty. shall mclnde any.property comprised in anv gift, -within the- meaning of-this' Bill,--.the deceased within, three years■ betore his, death, and "whether before or Rafterthe commencement of this Act." , : '■'■ K Tho.PEIJfE..MINISTER .said the object of xr ° a ??T S5? f ? P rev ent evasion of the :■ duty. .Mr. ALLEN thought .that that did not justify a retrospective clause making subject to TO;?, transaction which .was.-.not .taxable at th«: time it took i place.- . : ; , ' :■■ _ Clause, 8 (k) was amended' to include' snares in a timber company along with mihinirshares ..property situated ■ in New Zealand." ./The. PEIME MINISTEE moved to insert the fallowing sutHclause .in Clause 12:-The estate ■ «uty : payable" on any. estate ■ shall' hot 'exceed' the amount by which the final balance of that estate exceeds the stimof:fjve hundred pounds, and estate duty payable on any* estate .the whole of .which, has -been by the will of the'deceased left absolutely and beneficially to his .widow; shall ••not exceed the amount by which the hnal balance of that estate exceeds five tnonsa'nd■ ponndsj" .-''. ■■■''; •■'■ . . ■: •■ . : . : f. Thisjwas >{rroed : to/'.' \'i-'/{,<)''<: ''• !''■:; T* :,, __Clmise > 23 (2) was amended on: -the Prime Ministers motion to.give: an administrator power to sell, lease, or mortgage real or. per-sonal-property vested in him.'■- .■■■■ ; Clatiae' 24 -was amended ,to extend from'' six to. nine months the time in which death duties should be paid. ■ :,' ': ■'■. ! -.-.'-V:,i ■'• : . .- '

■■Mr.,-HEBEIEST thoutrht-"jthat'.power 'shoTiid Be. Hives to Day the dnfies by yearly /payments.Otherwise there would be -''difficulties' in the case of complicated estates. ' ■■■■: '■"■"■ ■"•. '.■"•'. ••'■-'. r The time within which'death duties must be paid-;jitter, notice of the . ■ assessment' was ■' extended, from; on 3. to., three months.'. '■'■■:"'■'.:■ :-. ■', Ante-Nuptial Marriage Settlements. . ,:. '.•; .■ ,■: ..Mr. J AMES, ALLEN (Bruce) moved -that ante-nuptial marriage ■ settlements made by parents as well as by. either, party to the inar,™Be;should not be included; in the definition of gift,' * but his: proposal was defeated bv ; 37 to 22.' •'•■■■•■■•.':'.„•■ ;:•■ ~■;■:/■ ;.,■:./..'-./-.->■' ~. ■; ';■.. •.(/ ■ When ! ;Claiise-43 'was -under 1 discussion, : £ ''.' - ■■-Mr.fJ. 'ALLEN/imoved that no' gift should be payable on gifts of a less .value .-tl an .£IOOO, instead of JESOO.',- ;.■."■' '-.". i- -:! ..: . ~ \ 'The, amendment was rejected by 38 to IW-: ' ■'! "£•'• ALLEN moved - that Clause 67 bo amended so as 'to render the comraissioner'B assessment subject tr fight ".'of appeal to. the' Supreme ■? Court.,. ;.' ; . ■■'. • . . .- .■ ,'i•■:■:,;:■ :- : :ThD proposal was rejected by 35 to 23.'.?!, ..■ . ■DulyoJTNaiive Estates; .;■ ..'/:':: "■' ; ; v i' _Mr. HEERrES.(l'anranga)Amoved to',increase the exemption in the case.of Native succession duty- frem- : jE2OO to ,£soo." "■'- ; ; : '• •;'- i . ;y.The.iPEIJIE MINISTER 'mentioned; that' it was the .first time ar attempt was bein'g'made to/charge succession 'duty, on Estates. left' by Natives; He thontrht it v6nld r .be : a mistake to raise -the minimum:•.■'.' :■/ ; :'~ -.-,"■:.:

■ Mr.. MASSEY; sai* that -there appeared: to be,two laws for the two races in the Bill. It.was possible for a total duty of -30.-per cent, ;to'be levied 1 on ;an estate; loft, by a.European.-' As far.as Natives' estates were concerned, however, it was proposed to charge only 2 ;per cent succession duty. .. , ; ' ..■ -\ ■ TheHon; A. T. A'GATA said that in 90 per cent'of. cases the succession duty wcrald operate harder on Natives than on the Europeans. , .•Tie. amendment was rejeoted by 43 to 19. Life Insurance; Policies. . '-.'j •;.,. '. '.S :':"■'<: '■■ ■■'"'. • Mr. WEIGHT 'Wellington South) moved the following .new- clause: "Notwithstanding'■' anything lo.the contrary; no duty shall be oaarge-. able,on the; moneys ,payable-on a life insurance policy left'by a husband to his widow', provided the policy- is enot greater than; : \£looo. ' ; 'The ;I>KIME ,>MI.N'ISTER .;■ pointed • out that an.exemption-..up to ,£SOOO in the fcase 'of a widow was already'made'in the Bill. ■'.'' ■■' .." . Mr. -MASSEY;.suggested that Section 12 should be- recommitted, so as to make it dear Ihnt a widowwas'.clear up to -,-:" - -Upon the Prime Minister stating that he : was ■ prepared • to. adupt that course -Mr. Wright withdrew; his ■ proposedTclause.. '"■>. ■•.:■ - \ y - ' • -.' Mr. Herdman "Proposes -;a New Clause. /V-': ■ .Mr. -HEKDMAN • (Wellington. North) the ( following new- clause to the effect that, notwithstanding anything, contained' in Section 24, the; commissioner, when he is. satisfied. thai the death duty .leviable, in'respect"of any. property, .oannpt. without'excessive saoriflce be raised, .'ra.ay allow paymentto be deferred upon payment of interest at the rate of 4 per cent., -ahd-vsnbieot■•to' other/conditions which':might be found necessary; He aoked what would be the position if .£40,000 or i! 50,000 became payable, in respect of an estate • at' the present' :tllde. : ■■.•..■'/-■■•■■•.■.■,,;. •■.-.. ,-.-.- .••■.: •.■.■'...:.'.■•,..•>■;■■ , ■Mγ.: Laurenson:; The money could be:bor- : ,Towed on the property. ; . ■■;.;■ : ■■■.',.■.-:■■■:■■.::.' • Mr. HerdmanrDo you inow any institution which would lend that amount to-day? '.. Mr: Laurenson: There are plenty of them : . ~ ;Mr.,'Herdniari; Why,, the Government has so ..mopped up, money in. this country; that it is impossible for. any financial institution. to lend : .£50,000. '■.:'.■' ■*-;.;.., .", v .. ' Subsequently Mr. Herdman decided.to with-, draw the clause in view of other provisions in the'Bill. v' ■;■;■■: • v..-' ■ . ■■..■.■■.■■.-,•■■'•■■" ,- ; Prpp'osals to Alter Schedule 'Defeated.' ; Mr. BAIIMB-: (Auckland T3asty . moved ! 'to exempt from duty all estates up' to the value of XIOOO, instead of .£SOO. - : . ■;■ ' ' ■ ■;' -■The PEIME MINISTER said that if the pro. posaliworo adopted it would.resempt ■ a large liumber: of'estates. If it were carried, Eβ would ask the committee to recast the'schedule so as , to raise the;percentage in regard to the 'more -valuable estates.!.:.; ~ : ' ■•; .. v, . -; :

The proposal was rejected by U votes to 26. Mr. G. W. RUSSELL (Avon) moved an amendment with the object of fixing the duty on estates worth .£220,000 and ovor at 20 per cent. Under the present system an estate worth .£220,000 would pay .£33,000; under the proposod. system it would pay £44,000. There were a number of very large estates in New Zealand. Effect of New Proposals. The PRIME MINISTER pointed out that the percentage on the larger estates was higher than in England. Mr. LAUKENSON (Lyttolton) thought the House should not'interfere with Ure schedule. Tho proposals wore quite revolutionary, and they should bo given a trial. Under v fhe Bill it was possible that the duty on a very largo estate would .total one-third of its value. The omondment was defeated on tho voices, Tho Bill was roported with amendments. SHIPPING AND SEAMEN'S BrLL. CONSIDERED IN COMMITTEE. Tho , Skipping and Seamen's Bill .was then considered in Committee. Tho MINISTER for MARINE, replying to several members, stated that -it was proposed that all oil launches which plied for hire should -be. in tho charge of onoor moro competent persons. Mr. M'LABEN (Wellington East) urged that the Bill 'should bo referred to; the- Labour Bills Committee. Ho was not satisfied that the Bill yas snfficiontly comprehensive. There was the matter of boat drill, which was often carried out very perfunctorily at present. Stricter provisions should be raa<le with regard to ovor-loadiug, especially 'in respect of deck ■ , ,

Position as to Launches, The MINISTEB:said ho. desired to put the Bill through this session, and that could not be dono if rtho . Bill rwent to ; tho committee lhe Koyal Assent would bo required after the Bill was passed. With regard to launches, ho would propose that if a launch did not exceed a tons net register, and carried passengers for hiro or freight she should carry ono certificated man, who might bo tho master. It was decided on the motion of the Minister that certificates of service in respect of certain ships not propelled by steam should be granted to ,an ongineer as well as a' master. . Clause 12 was amended to provide that a seaman's wages shall commence on the following day. in the case of .anew agreement to l'eongage on the' same ship, but the provision shall not apply to re-engagement on any other ship belonging to the same, owner. ■ It was resolved that Section 17 should also not apply in the case of any ship of loss than 100 tons register. .. ' -. .

The MINISTEE moved that ouly accidents sustained by seamen, and not those sustained by "any person employed on or about a ship at any port in Now Zealand," need be reported. Mr. M'LABEN (Wellington East) expressed the opinion that under the present system not one-tenth of the accidents which happened were notified.- , ■ ' .. . 1 Tho amendment was adopted. ■■'.?"■ The MINISTER moved a new snb-clause to Section 28 as follows:—"If a snip does not exceed .6, tons, and carries passengers or freight for hire, it shall carry one certificated nian." '■■■-' . ■ ?The new sub-clause was agreed to. Life-Savirifl Appliances.. ■' : Mr" WEIGHT (Wellington South) asked if ■.the regulations issued by the Governor-in-Council in regard to. life-saving appliances would be enforced on' ship-owners,- so'that the safety, of passengers and crews would be abso. lntely secured. '. . ■ ■ -.-"■ •■ "■: Mr. LATJEENSON (Lyttelton) nrged that the regulations "with regard to boat-drill should be made stricter. . .. ■' .-" ' The .Hon. J. -A.- MILLAE ..said that, the Board of Trade .regulations had been adopted, the life-boats were of the best pattern, and regular instruction •in boat-drill was required. A boat. in. rough breakers had very, little chance in any case. The provision of a steeroar would increase its chances. ■ ' . .Mr., WEIGHT said it was.- unsatisfactory that tho boat-drill was always undertaken in the most favourable circumstances, -", ✓ ■Mr. GLOVEE(Auckland Central) ■ thought that the-present boat-drill was unsatisfactory. Mr. MTjAEEN (Wellington East) urged a drastic change.in regaTd to boaMrill. "Look at \W Clock t" V^,' Mr. MASSEY,' :at\ midnight/ strongly, urged that the adjournment should be taken. Mr. MILLAE proposed to continue till 12.30. Mr.' MASSEY referred to'the lato hour at which the House had risen the .previous morning, .and stated that there was always an .attempt to do .a little more than the House \?a& willing to do. '■'■ : "''..'-', • ■ Mr.TAYLOE (Christchurch, North) moved to report progress and ask leave to sit again. Mr. M'LAEEN (Wellington East)■ sai.d, th'af one effect of, late.sittings was, that members did : attend the committee meetings in. the morning. •' - "„/, . ; .■' ■; ■. ■ .■'.>■' After the question.; of adjourning had'been discussed for. fifteen , minutes, the motion ■to report' progress was-negatived on a division ,by 28 votes: to 20, This brought the time to 12.20. .At" VLSa Mr. ..Miliar moved' 'to, report progress, .and.the House adjourned.- ; ■ ;..; PARLIAMENTARY"COMPLIMENTS" PRIME MINISTEE AND Mβ..BAUME AT -.•, .-'/ "\. ■■; ■ LOGGEEHEADSI '. :.; ' ; r. ••.'■ ,:.-'.■■■ '-.. -~ .■■"'.'■'■.'.' " ~~~ '■' '■'.":""' '■[' ■■- ' :ME; HOGGDISCOUESES ON.COTJETEST. ■'■&. lively little breeze' relieved the monotony of. the.debate on the. Death Duties Bill in Committee 'of ..the House '■'. of Bepresentatives yesterday afternoon?. '',-...■ •'.;■■.• ; Mr; Baume (Auckland East), whose criticisms of tho Bill .had been frequent and .free,, asked the Prime Minister .'if a gift made to a boy leaving for England for his education would be liable ..to; duty A . The, Prime Minister did not reply to the (question,- and when \t was repeated by Mr.- Baume, but addressed this time to the Crown jaw draughtsman; .seated behind, the Prime Minister, Sir Joseph Ward stated that this was ,an improper, proceeding, which: he would not put up with from any ■ member. . '~'■--.■ .■■' -.. '■'•-: '■■ ■ ■;■ .• ■■''■■•■ ■'

Mr.'Baume thon moved to report progress. He' stated that he did so as a.protest against tho Brinie' Minister's action, in ;refusing to" supplyj inforniatito, ..and, ".treating membere like dummies'.'-' :*'•-•"■■ /. '■'~' ■' ' '•,' i?.&,'••„■ ,;• i ■' Mr.'; James Allen (Bruce) urged : that tho House 'was entitled to'all. the" information ol> tainable, especially on'a technical,/Bill like that Under .consideration'.: 'The:Primo Ministei might'objectto the way. in w f hich. the question had been put, but ho thought that tho information should be given.; ; .', ~, ' ■ . ''. The.Prime Minister: I'am always ready-'to aDSTver. questions, but if , the , lion, member thinks he is going,to indirectly insult me ho makes a'mistake.. ; Mr. Baume,, ho "said, assumed : to himself an amount of political arrogance that was extraordinary, and if he did not get.an answer'-he was like, a peevish boy in the.House. He did not imagine for a moment, that.he was doing anything improper where anyoae/elße was concerned; He (the Prime Minister) 1 had answered ,■ every ' question that had. been pnt to him, but when a question was put-to } the. law;, draughtsman l behind :the speaker p chair, that was 1 an improper thing to do. 'If Mi'. Baurae thought he could delay, the passage of the • Bill, that would not disconcert him. It'was well known that'there ; was/no such, thing as .a gift, .under tho law, ; in connection with the maintenance of a famJilyy 'flo thought thatVMr. Baume's question was' put simply- for the sake of putting, it, and nothing else. : - /.; ■■!■. . ■■ . . ... ~/ T '.MT..Baiime:replie(l that with regard to the Prime Minister's reference to ''peevish boy" the.great example to the House ui that respect was the. Prime Minister himself, /■ for ■no one was /so peevish, petty, aad' absolntely despotic as the Prime Minister. He assumed to himself not only the power which-he had, but the wisdom;also of the whole community. It was not correct that, the Prime Minister had answered every question.put to him.' He (Mr. : Baume) had said that if i>ir Joseph Ward .would answer the question himself that would satisfy him, ; and. if he.would not do it he wqnld ask the law draughtsman. The Prime Minister was.too, much given to this peevish fretful,- fault-finding. • He (Sir Toreph Ward) was,not the only,member of parliament; there were others who had their own ideas of what was right and' wrong,-' and -of-Ulwir duties and responsibilities. Personally, ho' would perform his duty-to the best of his anility; and without,any fear of the /Prime Ministers pettiness,. irritability, and, should ;he, say, narrowmindedness,. ' , '~■■:. :; : v. - '.'■■■■..-

.Mr. A. W.HogR (Masterton) said bo: thought it was very much' to be regretted that any member should seize an opportunity like 1 this to make sn exhibition of himself that would' not, improve his character >'n the opinion of other.members.-The Prime Minister and any memberof tho'House had a right to be treated with-respect and courtesy, and the language used by Mr. Baume was calculated neither to elevate; the tone of the House nor himself in the (Opinion of his constituents, i He did not know that the Prime Minister had rendered himself liable to be called peevish, despotic, fretful, or. fault-finding. l He thought that these terms had a very direct application to Mr. Baume'himself People who .'live .in glass houses ~ should nof throw stones. (Laughter.) Mr. Baume was" continually showing of temper and going,out of Ilia way to attack membors generally. Only a : few minutes before he. had referred to members as taking no intorostin the Bill. The fact was that they were perfectly satisfied with the Bill;, and looked V upon it ai one of the best measures that bad been brought forward'for a considerable time. Ho opposed the proposal to report progress. ; . ' ;-,"-.'". '• -. - : : . Mr. Baome said it was interesting to hear' .from Mr. Hogg any. remarks otv bohavionr, especially on behaviour towards the other members ol tho House., .;■'■ -....• \ The Hon. A. T. Ngata .asked if a discussion on the conduct end behaviour of members was in order on a motion to report progress. ■'• :. The Chairman: No, certainly not.- ■:.'.. Mr. Baume': Then I am sqrri'thatthe Chairman (li'd not stop the , Prime Minister. ■': ..'■,. i.The. Chairman:' I must ask'the hob. gentleman not to reflect on the: Chair. : ■:■■■;". ■ y Mr.Baume: I do not .wish to do'so. Hogg" he continued, "has already displayed on. so many-occasions his humour, his pathos, his cufturo-rr-" ' .- : ;,, ; . ■■..:'.'■ Mr. Laurenson (Lyttelton) rose to a jjoint of order. Mr. Bourne, ho said,- was setting the Chairman's ruling completely at defiance. ... Mr. Hemes- (Tauranga): Cannot a member, if: 'he has bwn misrepresented, : put - himself right? • -.•■-', '~-, ■:'■:■ :■■ ... ■ The Chairman:. He • can't contravene my ruling, that ho must not rettect on another member.' ~._.: :■; V .'■■. ■ ■■- '; ■ ■;,■■. ,; .'■ ■■ .- - : ..-■/■■ The discuseion: then turned into ..a calmer channel.. '■■::.':■' ■ ''," :'. "• -•■ ■'■- .. : . :. '"■ ' The ; following', paragraph from the London "Daily Mail's"'report (in its issue of Sopte'mbor 15 last) of, ; the.. .Commitleo". : discu'ssion of the death-duties clauses of tho;Pinanco Bill in the'Housn of Commons, is appropriate for,quo-.tation-in 'view of Sir; Joseph, Ward'- manner, of., receiving ' Mr. Baume's question: .;. : ... ; ;"Mv. Sees, asked.if-(in.'allmvaiice.such as that of XiOO to-a son-in tie Army would .bo exempted, -and - Mr. Lloyd-Ueorge replied, 'Cw« taiiisr,',":: ■,-.;■ ■-.'.. .;;;-;.■ :-,■..,.. ■■ : ' : .-y. .=■:••;.■ '•:'"- ,1 ''•■ '■' - ' '•■'••■ ■•/■ ■.'.'•■■ ■■', : :, : :: ; - ... : ..;'