RETRENCHMENT.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 669, 20 November 1909, Page 6

RETRENCHMENT.

-.■ "■ '.• ■■..' •■ ':■-"■ ■,'/,-,■■ ;■ : -■. . 'REQUESTS FOR INFORMATION. ■.:; STATEMENT -BY- PRIME MiNISTER.' ;-. : Retrenchment was discussed , ;at some.length during; th&, debate on the first item of the Estimates in the House of Kepreseritatives yesterday. ' Mr. Mas'sey .said he had not found, in the Estimates so many Indications of retrenchment as. he; had expected.- He would like to know what the Prime' Minister had done" in regard to retrenchment, arid on what particular system he was working. He .knew that in certain cases Departments had , been amalgamated, but;in eome of those 'coses'he was afraid that the expenditure would be Very little less than before. ... : . :.'•.'■: .; ; . p ". .-.' • :. . . '■ :Sir. Joseph Ward replied that a good deal.of retrenchment had been effected- ;Besides the fact .that a number"' of. amalgamations 'lind : taken! place there had been reductions in con-' nection with the permanent staffs -in'almost every, branch■'■ of . the '■ Service; .'lt'■•was : quite impossible to give details, at the ■.■ present stage. in the Dark. :'■■■: : Mr. .He'rdman^ (Wellington .North) .remarked; that he could not. agree that the Prime Minis..terwas riot .yet .in a position .to make a state-, ment regarding! retrenchment. • The Government' must hive considered the whole question' from; the first, upon a line of action.' It would.. hardly vbe-fair .:to. snggest: that the; Government was. retrenching.in a'wild, 'haphazard sort of way.."The Prime.'Minister could. give a 'i preliminary ;. report on .what, had .been; done. .;.They knew, that while-men had ;been. dismissed .'from- the" Service, others had ;been' taken .pn/;' lt. was' riot'known-: to ' what extent ■ new".men: had".."bsen .taken on, arid: , whether"-the-men:.dismissed had'been treated fairly, and , justly, 0r,.;, unfairly, and unjustly. • ; \"-.y|:' ■}. Wairarapa Trains: '.'Mad" Retrenchment.': VMr. ,Buclian.an..[)V,airarapa) said; everyone in the House' wished, to assist, the Government.,in' reasonable.'retrenchment, but the -proposed abolition of two''afternoon trains in the .Wairarapa,. by which, a: population .of' about 10,000 was;affected,''.'.was-an instance of retrenchment: run mad.: Np'.busin'esscbhsideratio'n'lia'd been given -to ■the. matter,- and ..he hoped'.that .the Prime- Minister -would. look into - it • and see that such' a - lidiculous ■.time-table -was.• ! not adopted. Ji •'.''!"'' : ■';.'' -v' ■■■ ; !■■'. V .V^Mrl' Hemes'- Views.;; ■"■' '■' ■: . . i: Mr.: Hemes '.'.(TanrangaJi referring,; to. , '. ;the indications, of retrenchment m the 'Estimate's,

of amalgamating Departments; unless they were to he.brought, under, the;one -head. ■•' . Mr. Herries: I don't object to amalgamation. : / " . • ■ .--:.■•■ ■ ■ .:..«....-.---.. ; . , Resuming, Sir Joseph asked what was the use of the.; Government if members were , afterwards to describe the return of the Estimates as " a fraud on the.House." '.' Mr; Homes: .'lf. the Estimates'are riot given as I ..'have suggested' it simply riieans the- discussion' is burked. ';.."'. ■ ' The Increase'in Permanent Charges , .- ■ Sir ;.7oseph went on to refer to the,increase of .£292,767 in the permanent charges, ■ as compared with last year. Beforo going on to deal, with .that he might say that the retrenchment was heavier : than > had over' been known before in'this country. . '" -. ' \ ■ • Members: No,- no. ■'"....-'■■' ' . Sir .Joseph (continuing) said it-would have been easy for the Government, in addition to what'it had done, to have, made-a general reduction of salaries of 10 per cent., but to-: have done that would havo been grossly unfair •and unjust and would have brought about, a disaffected service. The increase in , the permanent charges was made'up of:■ Increase-in interest, ,£140,400; under special Acts, £150,800; civil'.list, 'The consisted of. interest; in connection with purchase of Wellington-Manawatu ■ line loans to local bodies,.-. J211,000, duplication' of lines • JE7OOO, ■' improvement- of Hutt Tailway and Toad £Sm, newloan of 190S' new- loan of 1909"",£15,000; Post and .Telegraph Itepaxtmerit (post office .byildings) conversions .£23,000. Of that-amount the items which were, directly.'interest-produc-ing were-those relating: to the Manawatu-rail-ways'. loans--to local bodies, duplications of lines, and improvement oMlutt railway' and' road,which totalled iEM.OOO. It had also to be borne ■ in mind that out, of the, new loans of'l9oß and 1909: a. very large' amount .was used' for ■ the ; "construction of new railways, and-so. was in- , , terest-bearing. Under . the, special Acts. about which- there' had been so mucli criticism, the increases were as : follow:—Harbour boards and local bodies , endowment' subsidies to locdrbodies and , hospitals i£H,OOO, pensiono to Civil Servants .£6000, : education •" from endowment ..lands .£47,000, increased: naval subsidy ora total, of JC152.000. Which one of these itemsunder.!the special Acts would members stop if it "were in their.'power to do eo? When members affirmed that .there had been an'increase in the pnblie indebtedness, they should, analyse'.the items with awieTC'.of seeing how much was.directly interest-bearing." .;/■'- Statement by Mr.' Massey. ■'-' Mr.' Massey said that ; more information! had been'eupplied: that- night ..to-, the' House, than

during the rest ot the session. Hβ wished to' emphasise the fact that many people had: been employed "by the State who should *'~ not have' , received . employment.; The permanent appropriations! would,, .ho. declared,/ have 1 , been greater if certain moneys : had ueon paid on tho . due- datee. -One of those* items was the increased. naval subsidy •- o£ .£60,000, which thoro is nothing to ehow' has been paid yet. Sir Joseph: It was authorised in the middle of May. ...'..■ • • ... ■ ' Mr. Massoy eaid the total'decrease in the expenditure'had'been given' by tho Prime Minister as i£G2,OOO. The- comparison was unI fair because he; had compared the Consolidated Estimates with the expenditure: last year. Instead of a decrease when tho Supplementary Estimates came down,. and the, unauthorised 'expenditure was taken. • into consideration, there would be some hundreds of thousands of an increase. He did not "find fault with the increase in regard-to working railways because he recognised-that thcro were'.now extra lines; Ho hoped' that in making the reductions the maintenance! of tho lines had not suffered. With Mr. Herries, he' agreed that the whole of the return in the Estimates with reference, to the Agricultural, Commerce, and Tourist Departments.should 'up into three parts. Ho regretted that nothing had beensaid by the Prime Minister, in regard to the system which had been carried eut in connection with- the retrenchment. : . When the items in connection with the different Departments wore under discussion he trusted that' Sir Joseph would give the House not.the names of the officers' cpmerned, but ihe ; number of dismissals, new. appointments,, saving, or in T ■ crease which would: take, place. It would be the duty "of'.his'party' to insist that this infor.maition- was given,, before j the .Estimates were agreed to. V , ': ■-.' ■": ... ■'The. Naval Subsidy. . ;. : The .Primp Minister declared, that when'the Supplementary Estimates were : taken into.account, the result would not bo as Mr. Massey had suggested. In. regard to the vote for inscreased naval subsidy, he wished to point out that the. necessary authority was , on,' the' due date.sent to the High Commissioner, with .instmctions to make 'payment to : tho Admiralty .wien they made' application. ~No further advice had since beeu. received , from- him in connection with the matter. , . '.-■■-._ . - 1 . Mr, Buchanan's Opinions. ' ■■:■■■ ■ Mr. Buchanan (Wairarapa) 'read a , table which.;, he had; compiled V; from .the Estimates.;! ■Hβ•averred:, .that.- some; retrenchments' might prove to have' been; unnecessary, whilst it was. -known : that !fu'rther ment might, very well have' been effected .in certain'directions. .: ' . ■ ■:.•■■' i ''■ ■.-.•■■ ■' ..-' :

sUi^---;;. , "-- ,, -^.--.-. , ";--' I '•■"■■■.:■••.■:••■'•■, ■''.•■.'■.'■:■■;:■• -~>.--■;■ -.-. ■■■■• .-',-•.■.: ■.■■.,* 1 :«..--'rr m V\ :\&\V/-T7~.. „..',' ~„■■>. , r ,. i..,ij (1 i<j,m' ; .•■■. ~■• ■ ■ "■-. '■' --sriT Jt-.e-iL-v-svicu Jiui.i ui« .nvE.n. i-, -'• ■:'■':■ '"■'■:'■'■ .■■■ :-:"■:■'■ - : •";::■ ■.'., V, .!. : A. '■:■;■;■ ~:>l*,.- ■ ■,-.*-,. ~': :■;■;'" r -.•',' '•: ; .iiV-r> . is tbe.ground plan, of-'the,new Fe'yer Hospital, of wards,.by wtioli tHe.'different'stages of disease are tobe''keptV'apa'rt. The new -^ " '' :L ' h' P -Y°f" a ?™l;StTee]t,;a^oftd .way. to s tlie rear ;of,,thej W ainihospital buildings.-, Since the project wairfirst -mooted severa h designs havo been 'submitted' toHthe ; - wn, f ? aT '(? lteo t s I ! Meffirs t ,Crichton and; JJ'JCaj;. .To a, certain/extent {ho:."lay/, , , of iho building has' been 5 desjened-to suit the. site. ■ Tlio bxiiiaing, • ns' designed, is a 1: ■iops;.;oue : story,reptangular.:s.truchire of:b , flpk | an'd;,rougli-cast > ,2l6fL,ih.leJigtb;bT 44ft.,in ■depth ) )but'iristead, of the frontage.being: leyel, this twp mam ; sections of-the build--' ■:•!;:%,■. ~ing.;incUne,.dutwardslat ;ri'slightsangle,. ipiiiingV'in,",the,: I middlb, of "-tliie central .or main, entrance, .section of ■, the; building;: In;.this seotion are" two small receiving' Wards --for""' ■ - •*!'• i a duty, largbkitclien with the usual annexes.;. Both main wings (male and.female) are divided , - jiito ""thr'&: Wards/ each. . • ■■■■■■.■..■:.r/ tt v'.T™' t :<", ,^, tD large , doors; opening, into.- one. another, "and, oil 'the- ; vcrandah 'which: surrounds the building. .In : the front of the building the : verandah is 10ft wideband •■' •-.-..■ entrance is gamed to .thei. wards through spacious. French doors,'which play an important part in the, ventilation of ,tho r wards.- The verandah.:is constructed oh" lines' that'' " ■■•■■-. 'PTSOT 0 -"j ! ??f ci ?^ te , s ' l ™}? r |°F. convaloscents, a,nd at.the same time provide, for-the admittanee'td the wards of. -a.' maximumof sunshine. Tliis is obtained by sloping the veran- ; . (laninwards (to the, building) aid. downwards, instead of outwards and • downwards. This allows of a series of windows between the'juuetion of the wall and the verandah'and the :;.'■-•'..- eaves through which by. allevil baccilli—will stream;in. These wdo.ws. can be opened, so as .to.provide fer a-constant current of fresh air through the" : ■■~■-"■•• .'; : chambers. <vTho building, -whichis,tp.be finished in-red brick and rough-casti is to.have hollow walls; (as a damp preventive), and a roof of red tiles, which suit the bungalowV .':.■•;.: s(7le : of structure, which,;iri.the:<»ulial.section, particularly, shows traces of Eariy English half-timber style of architectu'ro., The-main floor is lifted well-off the jri-mmd m ,:•■'••:. as: to permit of the free 'passage; ; bbneath. , ~A ■ ■v.;. ~; . . ■■:•■■ .■*■•■; ... . .-,-.;. >~,....: -~,:, ~ \ ,° ~'.."!

said that -though- the number.of pepaftments, .had been, redpeed,.;-chiefly, , 'by. .'amalgamations,; in many, cases there'did not seenu to be',much'. ■difference in- the.'expenditufe..-.F.or.,the'-.Epads.; Department-.there-.was: no change, >the : Police: Dep'artirient ,was in much 'the feame ■ position, for- Crown Law-there,was ,no' change, , :and fpr : j marine and .harbours' i'Xisi ■■' amounts' were 'al-■ ! most. the' same... ,l!or. printing.' 'ari'd ;therb: had been-'a ! 'saving 'of .£IO,OOO, andVfor-, .health :J610,000,i .frit'.there was a .slight; 'increase;, for. mental ■■hospitals^,and, charitable; ' aid. v In • the: case 'of. the ■ Agricultural Depart-, 1 inent,- which now;'included ,aßriculture, "com-',' : mefee arid ■ tourists, all ■ these divisions werei-in-; I eluded in one item, and ho .thought, this .would j cause' a "lot' of' trouble- 'when they * came ■ to -bo ■ idisenssed,-.as the .Houso Tfbuld want'the'separate figures in I'.eacli''case. \ -'..They, could■:not.bo ;expected 'to' vote' in one i|em of, ; .£lß4,ooo'all' (the; different items which they used- to have ~.;. ~■'.:• ~"■■ -.-..'-; .-.;■ .»'.■-• -..',.' -.'.■:■' ; ■'-■-:-.;;.'' -The Stamp Department. , ' Mr. T.:E. Taylor; (Christcturch ."ilorth)' aeked if the Prime Minister -would announce -later Iwhothei'; or not, a.large.snumb'er.of. men .connected with'.'the Stamp Department ,whp, were! :threatened';'with.'- dismissal" some 'months -ago,' {and who; were still'in a : state'of, suspense;'wero' :going',to'be. dismissed..orl.not- : '.Very .strong; arguments bad; been expressed to him kgainst. •the- proposed ,'abolition of the branch' ■'. offices iof the 'Stamp- he hoped' that ithe Government would; reconsider this matter."; i:lt was almost .a. cruelty, to keep these men-,in" jsuspense.':' '•'■ '■'■' ;-."--,';": "V "' ■/■"-.p , '-" f, '..-,'■'■'■",'

:. ' OUT|JNE;.PjF .RETRENCHMENT.-;; ; ' ;. ;V: -. SpME;-.INSTROC.T;yE .-JiGTJJBES,;;.;■;;.;''.The : Prime' ; Minister,' later, stated . that bo wished tp.'qutline"what 'dould be fb'Und; in the , Estimates: with'.- reference to retrenchment.. A : comparison: of. i, the 'totals.,showed ,that there ; was._a:total;decrease of! despite.'.in-, i creases ;in several-13epartnients.- v ■ There -was. ins the' working ""'Bailways DepartrAent- an .in;crease of.; i£23,11)2.: ,lt had to ■bo remombered;-. ■hoSvevpT,' that;there was, an. extra .mileage; ot'. '.212 : mi105..: ; .,-If: ; the.:retfenchmeiit had nqt..been. carried; out,-,the'estimate this year, w'ould'haye. been-iEBO;3iS; ; greater than last : year. ,; .The'n; again,.,in- connection with tho Post'and-Tele- ■ graph !Department.,there. .was .an increase , of ■£61,351: -Under;the automatic, classification, of the service, ;w,hich affected 3772, officials;', thero was an:increase of , In'addition :there was an : incniasb in. salaries'duo to-expansion ■of the -Department ..which.-: totalled': i>20.476, , . :which included .the Absorption; of the Old- Age Pensions Department. In the Befonce ,Depart-, ment there'-iVas an 'increase/this'■ year. , of _X 6933, .which was .due to increase- .in. ' Capitation through of tho numbers; oft volunteers. '/Nobody,.-.ho thought, would deny,; that there was necessity -for , an increase, in-the; numbers,cf, the .volunteers.: The Education Department' 'vote' : ! shoivcd> an *■' increase- '.of £2b,2%. In-the Agricultural Department the 'salaries lost'year'totalled :i£101,797,-as against l ■•£94,475.-- this ■/year,,, making a. 'saving..,; of ,£7322, :' to V .-.which . had ; to be added a saving ef '~£5385; ; which would come. : into operation .next year." The 1 Mines Department'showed an annual saving of J3U;100,-.which:it would have admitted was net inconsiderable. In the .'Valuation: Department the saving eSected- wag £12,829, .consisting ,of salaries. ,£7884 and , other charges Of course,; members inight", say that a great deal; of tho saving the nature-of , . salaries. • Jt, was,.as a matter 1 of fact, duo to a red-ucfaoD in travelling "expenses. ;In the Native Department an annual ■ saving Of .£11,198 had been; effected; whioh: must bo regarded as;,a very large reduction,if""He 'was, sorry to say "that more' retrenchment : was required ' to. be ■ ddne,but the-Government.-was going to gp..on-;with-it'uo ma'tteT : h6w- : unfileasant the duty. ■ Some .of the retS;richnient'•.'decided upon -some time, back had yet to be carried out: when completed there" .won'd-bp. a much greater saving than had beori indicated by him..; Then again. in the Land and Income Tax there,would be ani ;, annual: saving : of- .£13,075/ -.which would be a permanent saving so' , far as that; Department" was concerned. . In the ' Public Works and. Kdads Department 112 ofTioers had been retrenched as a result of amalgamation and' the. bringing■•:into' force ,of a' ty.etenj-': of• •insaeatiott 4 >o^io%. -^^^wae^aiUJi

Mr. Frascr's Views. ■ Mr. -William vFraser;. (Wakittpu). ihought it was' impossible for any member to form a just estimate-as to whether. Retrenchment was taking place or-not!. They could .not;'say what the saving would betill theysaw: the accounts next year,' and that - would be the time to ■ take - Che'Prime Minister to. task if'"he: should'mot Have done what l he undertook to d 0 . ,, -They 'could-- not : base; a: sound . opinion. on the .Estimates: He'hoped .that the retrenchment and decrease in expenditure would > take place; for. the cxpehditdre had ■ been, leaping up in an alarming manner. He would be quite.satisfied if the expenditure during the current year. did not.exceed what it was last year, without .speaking'of a saving <x£. .£250,000. They ehould have data , supplied to them;so: that they could speak definitely,"on the subject of retrenohment, but they had'not'got such data. CaTe must 'be taken! : ' that -the data v were available neit . : . ; .. .: .: • ■•. : : . ... "■ Tho Prime Minister said, that' Ilr.. Eraser was not allowing.. for ■ natural gtowth. Pro-, vision must be made for a natural increase of expenditure proportionate to tho increase of revenue... In the Railway; Education, and Post 'and TeWgraph Departments' he did not think ; that the expenditure-could bo much'reduced, since the-ancrease of revenue, the result of naturalgrowth, demanded an increased expenditure. .Bβ agreed., that next -year; would .be.,'the timo'.'to .test the results of: retrenchment.: ■ ■' ..'.••'■'■■. ' " ■ :..'•■ ''.•,'' Allegation and Denial; • Mr., Ross CPahiatua) . referred to yrhai he termed.'tho insincere, attitude taken : up. by. . the Opposition' moinbers.. The member for Wairarapa had. complained loudly 'of a certain retrenchment. in the Wairarapa_ district, and.wishing to bolster-up-a certain: officer in whom he was interested, ho had made great cry about the increase of noxious weeds, and of the rabbit pest. . He asked'the Opposition; if they .would .liko-.to' turri.'.out.all the. charwomen into the streets; all the widowed; mothers a'rid.'such person's." • V-. .. ' '■'..■' Mr.!.Buchanan said he know no officer in the Wairarapa as to whoso retrenchment he had reason to complain. ' He had expressed regret that nn-officer of the.'Valuation Department had been transferred, but-there was no suggestion 'of retrenchment. .'■ _ - 1( . .