THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 668, 19 November 1909, Page 5

THE HOUSE.

;- > BUSINESS. /?::; ;.,, '■.*!.'^en'^iie:'.HonS : eym'et,: ; y l e''3Urdaj' > thie discus- . iion'.of ■comraittees' : ireppTts .and' other formal ;.:bnsJness: -iss«<id;itiii;U.is;pii: /^'.■.;■'■;;;■■;':■'; ,- i ■'.Mr;.Ma'ss'eynhen-a'sked.'that-discussion shonld beiallowed.bn answers; to.questions. -.The Prime .Minister'agteed; to '■ the.;request. 7 '.■'•:, . : ",•■'• ■ AND INSTI-:-;';.:^-;a. - : :: : r';'} TuTi oNs.;.:'■'.;. x,;; ■„■; \ y , : . ■:■■}' The : dis'cussidnS'in' committeol of 'the ;: Hospi. , h ;and."Charitable - Bill'was f rii< iumeil;'.at.-:7.3ovp'.m. ■;:,■; / '~ ■: ,';;'■.,' '.;.; '■;' \,(Manawatu),' mbVed^an' additibn i:A to; v ;i ,-.-:bf■.; 39 ' (wh'ichi":-deals < with subsidies ;to':,boards: in're. Bp'ectiOf'moneys'.receiyed).as follows:" Provided 1 tb'at'^.herrMiister.'V-.in.C'ascertaining^-.wKether' :/a.'>boa^d:has' ; sufficient,-funds -to', carry'.• out., the 'adoiinistration: of ;,this; Act, ', shall, ; not, be'. en-. titled ..to'/jtake.inw:consideration''any pecurii-ary.-.-.D'eq'uest,ori any interest, derived Irbm' such' . peciiniaryvhequest.'} 'y ■';■■'• , :: j: ii'M-- : ■,■;.., '.Y , ,-':'..,-The .MnjfISTER.-.said:' that: ijff. the past np'j'hardship-.h'adv.resulted:from 'the.system in .force; v :'The--member ' need•'have• no■ fear -in : the V;:V-v'-'i;'/ " :j '■■• ' .'■' : ■ r , ..; :■': -The-amendment ;was 1 ■'••■■■■■' : ; - ': -'.The'-MIMSI'ER,. referring.to siib-Clause 2of Section Si^'said;that the'.committee: to'.which theimatter.had.be'en-refetred'recom'melided that the flthird i of; the'proposed :echedules ; should be : . adopted;:, tfn". respect', of capital: expenditure; it :: -was'proposed!that-.the:;^i;for .£ 'subsidy shonld ■•..be , retained; of'.the new,.schedulG: . -boards tp' secure! . administration. -If. the,: adminjstra-: '.'tidh"yere.'.as"econoniical''' l ;..a» i-ppssible'"without' '■■'■■ efficiency'being'ijnp'aifedi--if. would tend' towards .' iniireas'edVsubsidy'. "He moved that sub-Clause' CJsh6uld : be "deleted,.and 'in'its'place' the follow-' ing ' suWclanse ,be ■ inserted:—"For' eyory' pound , levied .:by l| |the Vboard v from vcoritributory local.' ; .anth6nbes;under ; ,.the: provisions, -hereinafter. • coitaihed»m :thafc'behalf;".:(1) One pound■•'■ in .f respect 'of'-capital, expendithre; (2) ■■ an. a'moimt ".determined;;in: accordance ..with : .the third : 'Bohednle:;in'ire'spe<it':'of" expenditure' other- than ::ca'pital-exj)enditure.":'> i /; , .i;■•"-.;■ ■;.-.•■'. !:;:■ ■'. . ' ; . '•., The third '■ schedule (which was approved) is; "8S followS^-r-i-V. ', : : /; V ; v->-' ; ' ■'- '':■ '■ ■■ .- ''-.- '■ '■

Bateable value. ■ Bate of lovy per head of the '' . : .v\ • - population. .'' ihopopnlatlon. • •/.' r 1" " Under Under' Under Under ' : : ■ 2a. 6d., .3a.,': 3s. 6(1.i 4-5. Not ■... •; s.>Under-, - but bat.•'but but under 2s. 'not; : not'/ not-not 45.-

Sir WILLIAM; STEWAItD. moved an amend- ■ irient to'empoweri the'.se6rfetary;,:as. well 'as: the. •;^ appl it-W ■ : ■ • Tho .MINISTER said; that, ,the..sqvernm«ht: .'V^Bted.^^Cn4!oi^ble:! ; al^til6Ht7'' : C6''digit.' •. the: declaration. ' ". >• ■ >*■■,<}-'j-. ' ,;The, amendment-was lost on thervWces:' v ; Clanse.L7Vspro v i<lirtgithat a 1 biiilrd'iniayj'con-v-tract withi>.another r -body;to-.affbrdl'relietVywaa . extetidod;-,. pn.-the;-,Minister's imotiOil; to apply to . Government ; sanatoria/v\. ' . ...

• A.Cbiiibinedi -bistrijots.' V^'-'.-i'; , \^.'.^Z''--'S-..'^- .■: 'itiki^jfEß-moved a> new -to en.l ; 'able' the. ~G6yMor,..;:by: ; !?OrdeWn-Couhqil, ■ to ■'■'■'. ■combine ;;the - -'districts'- : ofV two or more' local 0 -■:' V%iitjiprities.-. : eitoated ■'■■'ivithiii.'. --a '-'-Hospiial dis- - ...trict; and declareithat "for the purposes of-the Public Health: Aot :the .hospital.;. and ■oharit- ,<■; able: raid;.board;, of;;'the should be '■;'. Adeemed: to-beiho local, .authority' within the J,combihed. ; ,;districtsr V ! :-"'■: , ■:' :; ■'■'. '.'::■:'•'■ '■ v- ; . vlhe- clause'iwas: 1 agreed^to. ['■'■' '"">.',:: '?':■'■■'■: ■ '. ',A;new.;clause,. was .also, moved providing that : --Vv*H.■ costs:and ; .expenses. incurred 'by a 'hospital ./■•■;•■ end charitable/jaid;:board 'for ... pur-: ': -poses sh6uld-.be.recoverable;by the board'as;a , ■',-'debt: due ; by;.the .lpcal.. authority,-' subject -to .a.;nght:'of.appeal-:by.;the local-authority to the ..-■-■ Minister.;:-; ■>•';-,;'■ ; v.. ; >-":'/.■•.,. ■■-■";■.- ■■■.■■"■

:-.■■. Mr. TOWLDS explained, that the :object of /, {.these ■ clausesivwas eponortdcal -administration. ■ Jjpcal "bodies -.could • combine :together to.. get ■'.-, their;: sanitary.'inspectiori; fumigation, b'r ! '.6thet ' \°«; performed:.by pthe- hospital, and charit- : able ■aid:; boards which had the 'proper means ■■■•;■..• at/its, command..■ - I .'-. : . ■ c ' v - » •'' : •■ ; ' V^-■' ; >WTS!T (Eiccarto'n)vMid-many ; - loca) :;;■. to : get' rid of their -re- - . eponsiDilities. in :thfe; , .yiy; but' the amalgama- . . tion shpuld:..l>e at '-the- request'of the local i bodjee, and not mercly/'onvthe 'recommendation • ottnc inspector-General,'after considering any .-.; xepresentation made' by. the';local authorities/ , ..as_waspropossd in-the clause. ■' , ■-: : , ' Mr.: HEEBIES (Tauraiiga) thought that despotic : n powers were : being given -,- to ■ the : In-.; Bpoctor-General and Gpvernor-in-Council. ' Enor- ■. r ,n6us;. expenditure'-might be -thrown on local bodies:.which would' not: h'dve been incurred , ii If one district ■were affected.by-.a'n ■outbreak':of-, infectious:dis- ;.;. ease, local, bodies .outside; the district might be .■■■; .involved an,the expense of,dealing with it. pointed out that as ". :.ih"e clause .ystood-;if; only ■ meant: that the .'ob- •■■,. jecnons 'of.local. ; bodies to- their' combination ' would'-be -considered. If was 'also' .proposed to' --. repeal : ,Section.:.7,,;of the' Public Health Act, ..'::• -}Wf,'. providing -thai. contiguous., local- - : ' bodies" ■■;■:.could purposes, and.ono or'other ;of 'them .appointed: to-carry out any -• . work'for the combined district '. ... - ■', ■■ ■ :; i: worked : 6atistactorily,,uand. : : the.!, new.: -arrangement •"' mil ■' e JP e « tetl >i. ! 'to V.;be; : . !'an Thei::Mmister ; ,;offered/to"-delete -the.."words - -.. ■ after, considering any.: representation' made : 'bj : ;tho-local and ■-•substitute :"with', the , . consent- of.,.;.,The,:amendment was agreed to, . ■ : .end,the clause '■ '' ' ''■ ■■' ' i .'. was'adfpted empowering boards' •'- ,to ,makeVagreemen'ts for Jspecial terms as to , .mairitenance'-'iii:'hospitals of members- 'of ■■friendly:;sooieties.',. , ;Su.ih"agreements ■may,'' ex- ... tend . to;-the J ,inainte tance-of the , '-" v }™?>: a™XcmWr.M-\p!!.-.::the'members of'the ;' Bociety, and mayeitendieither'toalltheniem-, , bers, or.,only ' to sr>e<Siitcd: ! class6s •■ of'members.* ... Such..: agreements rr'shaff.'-not.' be ■■■ for i' a • longer : "period than;five'years^ ,, .;:": ■■■.■:■"-!.'■ '■ -- ;

-.; Nurses', ,;;,-;:-'. ;./Lv .;" '"'■y,'■'•.-. «:'■'■.•''■•'. ■ ; :llr.-" HINE -.(Straifordl^oved "a' new clause ■ that-the hours'ot.nurses, attendanis, and pro- . batxoners , in' hospitals stnuld not exceed 56 per '. : week;i;,: , .iV;i.;-^; 1 ;.;: : A;>;^;';i,v;: i : './.:<:■■ /•■;;-■■ ..■'■>. <- , .'-Ai-.amendiriont was mcyed to insert; the words . cases, of emergency.", It: was pointed ■ out.'that in ;for 'example, Mj.:-Hine hot.bo practicable. ■ Sln : ,ANl)liaspN?(UiKiurrt)'-suggested' that ■ the-hours should to excced : eight orti-any one. day; ' fif:\ if-*--- , "' ! ' ' ' - : - :' The'clause, amendment,- was ; :•■ adopted.':-' : ; ;■:■!■(«;=; '■■■. ■■■■ -J '■"■•'■ Tflo;. following -. hew••clause was '■■ agreed. to -.—' ..■ "The members of; every : old board and■'.'■ the !.- trustees- of : dvery>separate institution '■■ under ' the"-Hospitals and i.Charitable institutions Act, 1908/; who-are':in'.office'.at the passing of .this . Acti; shall -continue' , to..hold ofnee until' the ■ commencement •' of 'this;'. Act,- .'notwithstanding .' ariyiiirbvisiohtas to'tttsir -poriodic'al retirement ;-.containe(l-in;any': ; Act.hereDy!Tepealed; and no .'election;-:of -appointmont-- ot members'of. any ..Buch : ,bpard.orof trustees:of : anysuch separate ■institution' shall;bo_-made; in-the- interval :be- -■'• tweeni'the .passing ,of.'this iAct: and -the cotn.:ment'ement thereof,-.;except : for.•;the .purpose• 'of ;fillfpg-.'aiiy:casual-vacancy." ■:;:,"-. •• '-■■- •■..'"• ■; piscussion'))f.'Schedules^^'.■vr.,-.^;-:■..:';.,:■■:,"; : . ■ '. T??hen.' the ■ first ■. reached, which -.-■■ isnumSrates, the.-counties/included' in>hospital '■' districts arid 'the''old?boards' superseded; .; : '-. :' ■: Mr;. STALIiWOETHY'.:(Kaipata)■•• moved 'for. subdivision of iho North of-Auckland 'districfc ; "'--""- ; Mrl -POWLDS : then gave an explanation of his Intentions.- Ee'-said'he thought that there had b^n'-'ft weai ; deal;.too ym'-uch:subdivision;:of i hos;

pital district? already.' If he had attemptedto I xjarry-o'lit-'the thorough amalgamation whichhe thought desirable, ho would never have got ,tho;'Bill throiigh the House. .To'some extent the evils of subdivision ha'd been'diminishcd'by the provision 1 -for; graduated subsidies. The central .department -would also check the ox.'travagant administration which often resulted from the.duplication of institutions.. Ho Was not/in 1 a-position to accept,any, proposal for subdivision of a district. At the same time at that stage ho thought that members should oxetcise their own judgment, and in order to their-opinions he would divido on eVery motion. . - : Mr. ERASER (Wakatipu) expressed surprise at the ] Minister's attitude. Considering the of the schedlule and the neces-sity-of not haying too small districts he would .have-expected the- Minister to -say that the schedule had been arrived at after full consideration, and that he intended to stick by it. In such a decision ho would have been supported -by a : large number o£ members, could s not be supposed to know all' about the ' districts'. • Every amendment moved . that night ■ wjould :be 'carried': afterwards. Members would say to ono another: "You support •my ainendinent, and I will - support yours." He hoped that the Minister would still make the statement he had suggested. - ...... . Mr. NEWMAN (Manawatu) said he agreed with.. Mr.'. Fraser, -and "he, would support the Minister on every amendment. '■'..' .

J'The Usual- Policy." . . ' Mr. HERRIES (Tauranga) said that the Minister wns following the usual policy of -the Government in shirking responsibility. He shonld lead the House, and not let the House lead ■ the Minister'.-' If the Minister was going to throw, the schedule. on the floor of the House,' he would '.vote' for every alteration that' might; be/proposed. They looked to the Minister*'for an .expression of..opinion as to whether the amendment was desirable. If Mr, Fowlds-.was not going .to back up his Bill, what was-the use of bringing down,the Bill afa.ll? ..'lf he' was afraid of alienating a few votes.by refusing an alteration which was askedJfor-byJone-of: his supporters, he .was abdicating his , proper position. :: :''•-.' ../' ■vMr. .REED (Bay of'lslands) urged that there was a unanimous desire in the district for the-subdivision. It! was only this particular, ' amendment-.which Mr. Fowlds intended leavin'tf to the. judgment of-the House. ■■' • . vThoI.MINISTER, in further 'explaining his ppsiti6n;':said:':thftt ; while he preferred '.that ■no subdivisions should take place _at all, he recognised :.that the < position' of, this northern district-was exceptional. If, when he made up .the?schedule, he had had r the Bill "with-the-'provisions;that were..in.it/now, hewould have .dividedA;the district.- : -., yV ; ~■-■■ , ;■ ' .-• Mr.jjraser:':lf:you had:',tpld:us.that,-at first I'should-.'not ' have'saidve;word.'.. '';,' t-,"■ ■ ;''•' : .

■'";iMr.,;iPOWLI)S said ■ that' other'.'subdivisions iwere'"'proposed - ; which'ie-: thought .we're ; uniHseiSVHe.had:.not wished:to :give'■ thei.impression-, that 'he' wanted to drive.members' ; t6 .support., the.,-schedule.- . Hβ had been, 'trying all.!through :to. benefit:by the, opinions of the .w'hoie House. '■ He recognised • that the : great '. bulk\ of - the : members' were: not in • the . same position•'to''know the merits of 'each-caSe,:as he -was,; )and; he -was .prepared ..to. give -the House, his views on: each-case,-. He.o.was. prepared :,to.;'accept ■ this subdivision. '■■.■ :. .-. .;'

Subdivision.;.'.;- ■ .■'.•■..■''.'■■ !, '..'."v ','■■'■' '.■^.■■■'.' : . : - : -' : ffho- proposed'.North of .Auckland district was' subdivided to form two' districts'as follows :r-Bay' of." Islands district, Mongbnui, Whangaioa, 'Bay of Islands,, and ■■Hofianga counties;' Kaipara-Marsden' district, Whangarei, 'HbbsrjiJ.Y and Qtamatea 'counties. '.'■..•':. . ■~, ■: iXJpdri the suggestion tof the'Minister,'Botorua was taken 'from tho proposed Bay of Plenty district and 'included in.the proposed Waikato district.', V.'. ■^'•■"' ■. .'■ " ■■"•"..■ v '' ■ "''■■.■•■■ ;It; was agreed, on the motion , of Mr: Poland;, by '30 to 57,: to !amohd the boundaries of • tha proposed •' Thames. Hospital • district, ■. by adding the words, .''but inot including Waihi borough;" and , it :, was: resolved on the voices ; to consti-! trite a new hospital district,■ to: be , called,: the Waihi■; 'distfict,"':and to. compriso the borough ■Mr.'vHAlilj "(Waipawa) moved that-the propoged'■'Hawke's Bay district .should comprise only' Wairoa 'and Hawke's Bay coiintibs. *~ . The ;MINISTER said,'he ,would, accept. ■ tho amendment, which w^'s. approved.: : '-It was Wen decided that a new district, .to 1 be called tKe-: Waifajv'a'"- : district,", and-.' to' include Waipawa; : Patanßata,:■. Weber,?.Woodvillei' Dahnevirke,-..-' anil y AVaipukurau, ; cotinties, -.should be constitfttbd. : , ' : . ' ' -. •' ,' ■. Mr.; jEAECE, (Patea),'moved- that the constitutibnVjOf the. proposed Taranaki district shpuld/^e^.mjeßJa^tOi'read.that;the district should- c6.mp'ri'se''-.thoso,:portions, of i'Egmoht county north .of ;Arawata_Eoad instead'.of Glifton, farahaki> and : Egmont counties, ibut',the amendment .was lost 'by'Bß to 19. : "\.t-. :■ vMr.S,DUNe i AN--V(Wairau).rm'o'vedi that .tho clause -proposing i.to'. form l a'•! Marlborqugh' district ..be , struck out. and in ■ its'.place ■there.b'e Constituted; a, Wair'au district,, to embrace Marl'borough counly_,; but excluding iPicton and Plctoh Road district, and a Picton district to "include ' Sparidsj ■ Picton, and^Picton' district. The Minister accepted ttfe amendment, which was..agreed to;,,;; ■ ■ ~,■ •..-..,'■ '-■', . . .. Mr: GRAHAM, '.(Nelson) moved!- ; to; ■: include Mufchesbn cbunty in the proposed Nelson' district instead!of-:.the proposed Inangahua dis;trict; This , amendment.was accepted By the Minister: and adopted.". ■■ .'".-■'■ ■ ■■ ; ;Mr..DAYET. (Christchnrch East) moved.that ■Ashb'urteii' ceunty .stidnld be included, in" the , proposed : ', North '; Canterbury, district instead of forming! a separate district by itself. .Mr.,NOSWOETHT (Ashburton)'opposed' the proposal.;; :-.■■';.•■ ;. •■/ "'.•.'■ •• :;. : . :,. , TheMINISTER said he could, not agree to .■the'amendrhenti..:,. ..,.,: '■■.: .': . ■."'■. •- • The ■amendment was lost on; the'voices. ~ .;:The remainder of the Jrst schedule : was adopted.- ■V^':; , ~ -i,, . ..; ,-;-••:. '■- ■:■ .' ■-.■ ■-.;.. ,■; Separate 'Institutions.. ;v, ' -■-. J V : ' Mr.' iCOLVIN :(Buller): moved .that' the Charleston and; Denhiston- hbspitals be added to the list ofseparate institutions in the second schedule, .-'■'■ -■■•: . .'■■ The.MINISTER'said if the Charleston Hospital was/'included- it would receive nothing from ■: ,The■ Denniston , Hospital • was ~not yet\in; existence, and he- did' not 6ee iow iit-'could-.lwy included.'.'-- • r .. :; : .■■ -.'.■.'■■•.- The'inclusion of the Charleston Hospital was agreed -to on the. voices, • and' the proposal to' include .the 'Denniston Hospital was -- ; agreed to on a division; by one. vote-7-27 to 26. .-' '•'-' '.' A; prolonged . dificussion r to'ok> place'on -a .schedule.'affecting, the Taurangi Old Men's Home, '. Ashburton. - .'■"■.'-. .- ■; . : ' .Mr.. MASSEY .proposed, .at 1 a.m.,.tiat the Bill should ,be allowed to go on, and before it came .to : the third reading.a conference should be h e 'd between tho members interested and the , / Minister/to. draft a 'clause to meet! the point that:had arisen.. At the third reading the Bill could be; recommitted for '■ the purpose of inserting it. , '■~ -. ' -. ■ . ... • ' ■-.--: -.. The suggestion ; was-agreed'to by theilin'ister, ■after Mr.-Massey had.declined'a'suggestion'by Mr.' Fowlds-to leave the amendment "to,the House.:'.';• . ."'."■'. The' Teidatning schedules' were agreed to with ■only:'minor amendments. ' . ' ', -The House-adjourned at; 1.15 a'.mc ' . '

• vr V ■■.... under under under, under * \ ' 23. ' 23.6(3.' 6d.' - ■" J- C .■■■■ .81 d. x. d. -g. d...'.s. d. ;s. d: . s-'d. Coder-£100 24 3 24 0 23 9 ' 23 3 22 3 f 20 3 . Unuer. :£150' ... 2S 3 fSO- 9 :.22-3 ' 21 3' 19 3 ' Under .£200..22 3 . 22 0:.:;21 9 21 3 20 3., 18 3 ■ Under *250 213 • 210. "20 9 20.3 19 3 17 3 :• Under\2300 .:.l 20 3" ,20 0 19 9 19 3 18 3: 16.3. : Under .'£330 •: V.'.! 19 3 .19 0 V 18 9 18 3 IV 5 15 3. Under £400 ... 18 3 >8 0 17 9 17 3 16 3 3 Under. '£450-,;,::.-:17--3 17 0 16 9 • 16 3 ,15 3 '13.3; Not under/£450 16 3 • 16 0 15 9 15 3 .• 14 3 -12 3'