SESSIONAL OUTLOOK.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 666, 17 November 1909, Page 8

SESSIONAL OUTLOOK.

• GOVERNMENT PROGRAMME. . BILLS TO tilE PASSED. , ' AUTUMN SESSION LIKELY. , : .i.TJpmi:the.conclusion of the Government cau- : : v,. ens, yestei-day.- mornmg : an. ofhcial statement was mado to the press as-follows:—There was an attendance of M - members of the party, '; "and only. two members unaccounted for. The caucus was called by the Prime- Minister tor the purpose of discussing-the position of busi- - •••• ness- in view of the limited time available -.-i . betwoon now and -Christmas.: Members were . recommended-to 1 agree to re-assembling about - ■?, --: a:-month after the adiournment to continue tho work of the present sesstoa in the event ■ -.. : , of the important policy Bills that were con- . tained in the Budget not bomg finished by :V' -December 22.- ' The Prime Minister stated that • • the policy Bills included- ins the Statement which -it was intended to pass were the whole of the Finance Bills, viz.:— ■ 'State Guaranteed Loans Advances Bill. . Land- Finance- Settlement Bill. • f Death Duties Bill. • . Graduated Income Tax Bill. - - Banking Taxation Bill.; (including notes). - \ v rßacing Clubs'. Taxation Bill. . ' Land Settlements Bill (which includes the y amount of money to be raised for the purpose y:of lacquiring-Maon. lands in-the north). Customs Primage Bill. ' Other Bills 'which it was intended to pass . were as under:-r • ■ 'Defence Bill. Land Bill. JJaiivo Bill. Lioensing Bill. . : King Country Licensing Bill. Superannuation Bill. . >. - • Railway Betterment Bill! ' -Hospitak ; and Charitable aid Bill. , -■- Annuities Bill. : / Th'is was agreed to.' ;' .' .wfeS;"'ln reply: to an.inquiry -it ; was officially stated ?.'?• v that in the event :. of ' Parliament being ; ■ inquired to reassemble early, next year it. would it , • : reassemble before I'ebruary 1. DISCUSSION IN THE HOUSE. Arrangements to .accelerate the. work of i !>.e ■-- -session,' .with -a suggestion : that, if ■it has.. -1 ;';^--'MK.di^dsw'.'. 1 0f':'certam:.'businesa by' Christ should atragain in February, .. ; .e, . announoed in the House yesterday afteruci.... The Prime Minister.' moved, .without..-. ■ - ; vioiL3 : notice, :that on .and -after Wednesday,. ' November.; 17, :aiid for tho remainder of the' r session, Government business should take preocdooce- on- Wednesdays, and that on and af- :; ter Thurfiday, .November 18,-Government basi- :- V^ -ness should take precedence on Thursdays. The Prune Minister raid he would giro -an opportunity before, .the session was over ; for i > private and local Bills to be moved. 1■ -.Mr. JXassey :sa3d- that he and-bis party were - i exceedingly, anxious to get on with the busi- ; ■ . ' ness, -and did not intend to . raise any objection to. Government .business receiving preced-1 ; ' ence on Wednesdays and Thursdays. He urged, 1 ' : "however, that private members' business in re-1 to 'questions and.motions waj entitled to I attention 'on Wednesday afternoons, and that I ; . Government business should come on at 7.30. 1 /. • j-yrThe:-.Prime--Minister-. I-will look into, the • • matter and .see what is usual 'If we are dis- ' cussing the' Financial Statement that vis -not eii;'-';-; ,: ;v-.pyy-' Mr. Mas6ey: I don't suggest that The' Prime Minister said\> that: tho Gov-ern-

Mont would do what was usual. . : - . Mr. Massey pointed out that a very bad pre.cedent; vena established last year in..: allowing tho Government to: .take Wednesday afternoons. This session no-:member ■ had had a single opportunity :of moving any -motion he had placed on the Order Paper. Ho-did not know ■ - A if 'there would be any opportunity, but members should not be dopnvtfd of an opportunity if it came along. Mr.- Massey asked the :Prime Minister when 'v ihe proposed to -take the House into ITis confi- :/ v dance in regard to the- business which the i Government intended to put through thia session. , - Sir Joseph Ward: I intend to do it this afternoon. •' The Prime Minister then gave notice of, mg.- . tion for lfexS Sitting day that 'on Jahdi after Monday, November 29, the House 6hould meet on Mondays at 2.30 p.m. . ,••• .■■■ / • • Statement by the Prime Minister.

• Subsequently the Prime Minister stated that v he wished to outline the business which the

• Government proposed should be . put through :this session. Howiehed to ask: the Loader of the Opposition if he oould.-see his way io facili-; .- tato business by' adopting a oourse similar to that: which he was prepared to adopt in conlioction : with the Fmancial Debate. "What -he wished to:suggest did not, of coarse, affect the independent members of the illouse. In .view, of the fact 'that the. House would require to adjourn by December 22 to enable members ito go home-for Christmas, i he would like to 1 ask- ,; Mr. ; Massey whether he would to confine .the • debate,; so far'as tho two chief parties of the' House were concerned, to one speech each by the respective leaders—Mr. : 'Massey ? and himself. If . Mr. Massey would ' agree to the suggestion it would expedite matters very.'materially. - Members/ would' have; / gn opportunity, to .discuss the important mattors contained in tho Budget when they wjre ' brought before the House in the form, of Bills. If, his suggestion wore jadopted, it would mean that at .lpast a majority of the Bills in question' cornd. be put through by December 22. ' In.tho event of .consideration of those Bills' 1 not "being finished, .he proposed to-ask the Hoaso to re-assemble, not later than February ; 1 to complete the programme. He would fur:,;ther .suggest'.' 'that.;-'at- the.'..conclusion .of tho proposed session, if'such should be found to be . secossary, the ; House should not tneet again . next year,; but re-assemble in Juno ,1811. :• From February to June. :. :In order to compete the work'.it might be a necessary to sitv from' February to June, but not litter, as he could see no reason for proSensing the' session merely for tho sake of, ■ prolonging i it.-• . The. Government '.considered it to bo its duty to have certain measures put on the - Statuto Book and the- proposal that the / House should: re-assemble if necessary •.was made so that that could be done without • there being room for, any suggestion of or pressing members.. . The whole of 'the Finance Bills would require to be put on tne Statuto Book. They were as follow: The State Guaranteed loans , Advances Bill, - the Land .'Finance:: Settlement. Bill, 7 the. 'Death Duties Bill, the : Graduated < Income .Tax Bill, the Banking Taxation Bill; the Racing Clubs' Taxation lull; Land Settlement Bill, : Customs Primage Bill, Dreadnought Purchase Bill, Defence Bill, . Land Bill, , Native' Bill, . , Licensing: Bill;. King Country Licensing 'Bill, Hospitals and ■ Charitable Aid Bill, 1 Superannuation Bill, Railways Betterment Bill, Annuities Bill— , Mr. ■ Allen: What is the Superannuation Bill about? Sir . Joseph: To.-provide for jE25,000 to bo • Wit ,into the Railway Superannuation Fund: the transfer of .£SOOO. from the Police Fund to. me Civil Service Fund; and provision to amble, the . inclusion of certain members of ■ the Education Department'who were excluded by their own action. -•»■ Some Policy Measures. ■ The Prime Minister went on to say that it jeerned ■ to, him that -the Finance Bills ought .'. to . pass within a few days after the members became cognisant of their contents. Ho would undertake that tho Lands for Settlement Bill would be . circulated this session; also the Death Duties -Bill if possible; :nnd that other ilijjance Bills would be available early next £??. • The .State Guaranteed Loans Advances 'Hl a l , . Land Finance Settlement Bill, With which members were familiar, ought to .be put.through as, soon as possible.- The Defence Bill would require.to-be sent to a special committco, and the Limd Bill, he presumed, • would go to -the Lands Committee. By Government ;• business taking precedence on Wedr; ncsdays. and Thursdays ,and sitting on Mon- , days, as* he had suggested, there would be ho necessity for tire House to sit on Saturdays excepting for, the last two Saturdays; of the srasion. The Native; Und Bill, which was chiefly. a consolidating measure; would not take long after it left tho committee, if mom- . bers concentrated their minds on tho two or 1 three important proposals involved in it.

Licensing Proposals. As,regards licensing mattere, he would like 1 to say that important legislation, bearing upon the' question, had not ior many years gone through the House, withont a poor agreement between: representatives of the parties; The : last Bill went before a committee, consisting of men representative of both sidos, and, but - for the fact that they mutually agreed to tho • matters contained in it, it wonld not have had the slightest chaneo of passing, On the present'occasion, im effort had been made to nave something like on understanding between the parties with a new' : to facilitating. legte- , latum on the subject. ' Speaking as he wished to say, in'' regard: to, tho: proposal > for a' nvo-ycar period before a Dominion, vote, confcl come into that juo Treasurer woald flgren to aJcakr term. 1

If snch a yoto were caiTied.it would involve a oonsiikrable changc in the mcidenco of taxation. . Suiiioient time wab required (apart from iiio Mews'of either side) in. order to enable alterations' to be gradually brought" into £oroe to allow any loss or remissions to beT mado up. He :had no hesitation iu saying that 'without an agreement tho Bill would have no'chance of.vgetting"; through."; What was wanted, was legislation' of a definite-character with a view to .final;decisions of the people being-rperiod-loallv given. ;He' knew.,it was. a difficult matter, but ho hoped that when it came up in the House it would not be; delayed. in settlement. The Land' Bill.' would .'be circulated this week, so that members who wished to discuss it woulfl have an opportunity., of preparing their matter. What he would, like to 1 see wis: that members should bear and forbear so as to allow business to be expedited. He saw, a smile-.on the faces of members on the back benches opposite, but he would like to say that, he had made his suggestion for tho curtailment .- of the debate in the earnest hope that members on both sides would restrain themselves so that business' might be facilitated. '

. Mr. Massoy in Reply. Mr. Massey said he was exceedingly anxious to facilitate the conduct of business. Whilst quite, willing that there should be a reasonable curtailment of the debate, he did not, however, see his way to , agree tothe proposed , restriction of the Tights and privileges ,of members. Every member had a right to speak on the Budget, and he ;was not able to rule Ms followers with a rod of iron as the Prime Minister was evidently able to rulo his . supporters. With regard to the proposal that the House should meet after Christmas, he wished to say tb* i, if such were found necessary there could, of- course, be 110 help - for it. No matter • what trouble or inconvenience such. a . course ' might entail : members owed a duty to the . country, and ■to their constituents. He did not, however, agree to the suggestion that the proposed session early next year should be continued, instead of holding the ordinary session. The proposal that upon the conclusion of , the suggested session the House should adjourn until the middle ci tho following year-was neither right nor feasible. If the llouso was not able to got through by the end of the present year, it should icassemblo in-Jobruary until tho work was completed, and: thon adjourn again until. June.; - '■ One Session Next Year. The Prime Minister remarked that ho did not like the suggestion that he ruled bis supporters with a rod of iron. Prom what Mr. Massey had said, it appeared as if ho had attompted to rule his followers in that way but they had objected. He (Sit Joseph) had never attempted to do anything of the kind. The Government members were quite prepared to postpone discussion •on the various matters until the Bills came down. If the House required to reassemble early next year, it wonld sit during February, March, and April for certain, and!then it it continued to sit on till. Juno it would have placed before it .the financial results of the present, year, and would bo asked to make provision for tho; following year, no wished the business to be transacted in ono session next year if possible. Mr. Taylor Blames tho Government. Mr. T. E. Taylor said that although Parliament had now. been m session five weeks, members could not bo blafbed for- the fact that pjactically no business had been transacted. Several of the measures mentioned l by the Prime Minister had practically still to be. printed.. Members had not yet seen tho Bills relating to defence, finance, licensing, land, etc. He resented the suggestion that the House had done-anything to bring 'on it the penalty that it should be dragged back next February. In fact, he would almost suggest a Bill to sus. pend the assembling of Parliament for three years'to f;ivo the Government 'a chance, of bringing.down what. was. wanted in the matter of legislation. / ':. V Amember: And then wo would bo no further .forward.

Mr. Taylor added that in his opinion: some of the proposals should bo referred u> the'country before being considered by Parliament. ( He looked upon, the suggestion that the House shouH 'rcassemblo in February as one ;of the most ridiculous,that had ever been made in the House. : .■ i ■ ~

The Prime Minister thought it was a pity that Mr. Taylor should discount his remarks by excessive fault-finding and mis-statement of the nosition. ' •ThV Hon. G. Fowlds: The • Hospitals and Charitable Aid Bill has been waiting all along. Sir Joseph went on to say that the Government cojilu held responsible as to the amount 'oi IrasniosK which had been transacted. Mr. Massey: Who was responsible? Sir'-Joseph said'that : Mr. Taylor had appar : ently 1 not seeri certain Bills which had been circulated for' some time. These included : 'Land Settlement Finance Bill, State Guaran, teed Loans Advances Bill, Shipping and Seamen's Bill, and National Annuities Bill.. .'The Finance Bills could not possibly have been brought down before the Budget. ■' - , 1 'Mr. Massoy: What we complain of is that we did not get the Financial Statement earlier., i Sir Joseph remarked that the Opposition must have been rather in. a hurry. It was generally admitted that the Budget was the most important that had ever been placed before the country. In view of the magnitude of the .proposal he could only express himself astounded 1 at the faultfinding which had; been indulged in. .' v.

Mr. M'Laren's Views. ' Mr. McLaren objected to the proposals rnHhe Budgot being discussed in-piecemeal fashion, as was suggested by the Prime Minister. .The suggestion was very, unfair, especially ;to new members of the House, and in making it the ' Prime Minister' had not fully taken into account the responsibilities of private, members. Some of the proposals in : the Statement: were really of a revolutionary character compared with tnose which had ; been presented to the country formerly. He agreed with Mr. Taylor that some, of. the proposals should first of all be presented to the country, before being . finally settled.. If there. 'was only one speaker on' either side the matters' oould notbe properly- dealt with. In saying thai, he aid not wish to reflect on either of the respective- Leaders.' The fact was that in such an. ercent there -would be a disposition : to pass ■ over 'matters hurriedly. .If discussion were delayed untiL the ' matters came up for! considenttion in Billsj 'members might. find' themselves dealing .'irith multifarious details -in them, and to some extent orerlooking. the principles involved, in the measures.. The .presentation of the Budget was for the purpose allowing the House to. express itself clearly and- definitely oil essential ■ principles. He hoped, that' there would be no further move in'the direction suggested by the Prime Minister. -~ The Primo Minister reiterated that his proposal would not affect members' who did not belong to either party. During the discussion on ,-the Budget a member would not be ahle to traverse great length in. an . hour all the proposals thai camo up for; consideration, whereas when the Bilfi were submitted ho would be ablo ,to speak .for a.;much 'greater -length of time, during the -course 'of; their passage. His object was riot to restrict . members from expressing their views fully'on. the various questions,. hut simply that they Should refrain torn eo doing until the Bills were beforo thdn.. Mr. Hogg Objeds to "lagging." Mr. Hflgg said..he Wished to enter , his emphatio protest.against the course suggested by the Prime Minister. The object : of the Financial Statement was. to give the Government -cji opportunity to'explain its proposals. . If it were intended .that there was to be only one speaker on either side,- the; Budget might just as well contain only the figures- From what he oould see, the Budget proposals involved a material change of policy on the part of the Government.. Some of the propcisa& viere simplyof a revolutionary character. It -was the duty of members to discuss fully and fairly all these proposals. For them not to do so would manitestly be neglect of their duty. One'particular reason why they should be discussed • when the Budgot was brought down was that one, prtlposai hung on to another;' and the money that was required for certain objects outlined in the Statement depended on taxation. He would be surprised if members submitted : to have the gag placed in their mouth in the manner proposed. Ho was one who wished to have business facilitated so that they might not bo required to come bade after Chridmas. Apart from that consideration, however,-evory latitude should be given! members to discuss what bad been described as an cpoeh-makiim Budget. The Primp Minister complained that he had been misrapresenied- He had never attempted to, force ; anybody .in connection with his proposal, and it was unfair to suggest that members, would be gagged. He had amply made the suggestion, and it was for the House-to accept or reject it If the House did not agree no harm would bo done.

Mr. Fisher's Protest. Mr. Fisher said it was practically IS months since the House had the opportunity of discussing .a Financial ' Statement.,. . Now . tho members, were invited to forego discussion on it;"sit till tile end. of the year; ro-assomWo in February for a mbnth or two, and than adjourii again for 15 months. Sir Joseph Ward : It would not bo IS months, for the House wonld not adjourn till Juno at any rate. : ■ Mr. Fisher said tho House was fast approaching thai stage when'; members and the couniiy were being asked to put ■ up with adiniiHstratitin without control. Sir Joseph had .told them that if the jropesed session con v

ifmuod: till June, all : the .financo papers would be ready. Ho would like to know if that wero- so why thoy had had to wait so long this .year for those papers. .He- hoped that the Prima Minister, was not serious in making the suggestion. ' He would like to ask if he BUggMtcd .that the : whole of the Budget woul<l dealt' with in-Bill form. Sir Joseph: Practically so. ■ Mr. Fisher:' My. opinion is that.tho House will not dire to let the Btidget pass without full discussion, and I'hope the House will not agree to the Prime Minister's proposal. Views of Mr. Buchanan. " Mr. Bnchanaji (Wairarapa) said the Prime Minister hadpreviously stated that there ■wotdd be VdmpW, time before Christmas to get • through the- work of the, session. ' Country members had been taken . away from. their avocations lit a very. I inconvenient tinie of the year, and it .was now .proposed to take them fromtheir work. at harvest time, which, was tile most important time of all. ile urged that the- House should not sit after Christmas.' . -.. The Prime Minister 'replied ; that unless it was: understood that tho .House ' would meet ncain if its; business was not completed by Christmas, the discussion on the Financial Statement would go on for weeks, and no legislation would go on 'ffie Statute Book at aIL The., House had been working all along, and it was not the Government's' fault thai matters were.'not more forward. Another Suggestion, Th& suggeetion has been made that instead of Parliament meeting again in February, next year's ordinary session should begin early in May, which would give ample time for the ■legislation that will be postponed this session to bo dealt with. In the 'eighties May was the ordinary month for the commencement of the session, the . theory being that Parliament should meet as soon as possible after tie close of the financial, vear. ; There was always a tendency, howewr, to: postpone the date of meeting, and this tendency was greatly .assisted when the . Public Berenaes Act gave power to extend the expenditure to three' months after the close of the fraaccial .Tear. Juno has "now become the usual month for the assembling of Parliament, with the result that when the Estimates come down ,thoy. provide for allowance of money which has been largely spent during the preceding six'months. This is' an undesirable state of things, which would be obviated if Parliament returned to its early practice of assembling at : -the beginning of May, instead of at the end of June.