LICENSING LAW.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 662, 12 November 1909, Page 8

LICENSING LAW.

y •• TRE NEW PROPOSALS. ', „ OOMINION OPTION. ,A 5S PER CENT. MAJOEITY. » w°< a " 1 tlia> ® attor n Sir Joseph Ward's I Budge* that which ( was most talked of yesterday was tho proniise of licensing legislation | v , on ÜBBs representatives of the : • NpiiV^nse.. movement and the Trade - The I Prime Minister's - was ; vague, 1 :&• complete ■ outline of thoarrangement jvhich ( ha* bc«n cdrtie to is nov nail able, ami ST® 1 * ;rolp*" .'>:'£ he. representatives of the twp .parties -did not come faoo to fa6o; ; 'but v jis delegation Jrom each side conferred with . ,th©. Hon. Dr.., Findlay -(Attorney-General), who contln<jtea ; tne ; negotiations from beginning to 1 ~ i The : delegates of the Trade we'ro Mossrs. Mar.W; Kennedy (chairman of -the Brewers' A 5.... .... /MCiation -and:manatnr.g director, of' Staplos' and , Company, Ltd.), Mr. Leo.) .Myers (Ehrenfncd Ltd., AncUand), Mr....0. .Nicholson Dims > P n < Moss ' Davis, and Com+•••.'KWf. Captain ' Cook; .Brewery). Mr. -Mowhray i '■ feWv rwrtponi - Brewery), ..-Mt. Greenslado (Spaigfct and Co , Ltd , Dunedm). Mr Gibbons ( Wanganm. ftnrl ~two ..representatives of the i . Ijiccniffcd.,Victuallers'-)Association, one of whom i waR Mr. Palmer, of Auckland The Hon C •' KlhC.* was. to ..have represented ! .f, Uttristehnrch ..-.trade • jiTiterests, but omng f fo i Carjuvul Wcek he tho dnty to Mr. I , ..The other Ride was represented i or vtnicg>officars of; tho New Zealand .Alliance i . Wester -'Spragg (Auckland);and 'the I :• A- • Dewaney and ~J. Dawson (Welling-1 .toflj. r • ' i 7 ;,\j; -;' •.■ ■ THE TEBMS. ' .r. The, terms. which: wore • agreed • upon,: and ' ' -'Which tho representatives of tboth parties "have-i • asked the Government to embody 'in a 'Bill, i with a view to passing ■it .-this session, are as i'ollow — t.—Two . issues . only shall .hereafter be pnt to f the peoplo, viz — j •-. • (a) 1., vote - that , the -number of licenses! . existing m the ,district oontmne. ~ .. (b).I; vote, that no lioensas be granted in . ■ . the district. • ■ f.—The reduction 1 issue .has been- eliminated. B.—Every, vote .hereinafter cast; for local • No- •. ; . License- shall ' count -for ' national- prohibition, and rice versa 4.—lf. prohibition comcs info effect no ;intoxi- ; " ' Dating. :liqnor ;shall be .imported • into; mawt- :■; factored, \or< sold in the Dominion,, except :- t .-j.-for scientific or' medical: purposes.. ■ ; -A—The .majority,; of-votes : required: to .carry .1 ■ Dominion prohibition - shall be'ss-lOOths of all the votes cast. fl —The majority;. of, .votes, required to carry lojal i'lO-LiccDsa shall be , reduced -from .. 3-ftth to s.Vlooths of all tho votes cast. .■ ;; :f .r^K, Dominion: prohibi hon -is ;■ earned . 1 t.i shall . . ..(-.not take.effect:for; five,years .from.date, of poll.

./• •&—lf locai:No-Lidens« ■ is,Jbarried : it : ■ "shn.ll' Hot S*'■ ;®(fcbt: .poll. .*•» r&srSl Dominion., prohibition -is oatncd no flirv:, • thcr -poll shall -be taken • until snchvprohi- 1 ; . bition . has. .been 'in , operation for . three years W.—ln -No-License • districts all votes oast for jiK>n-Te9toration:;:shallvcount.-'.for-.Dominion . prohibition. ' .j 11.—If. the 'iVotes-i cast for restoration in any . : districtamount,to 65-lOOths of all the • •- votes . cast, restoration shAll •bo deemed to vy.vx ' THE 'NO-UCEtfs£ .VIEW. ' A HOPEFUL ATTITUDE ./• i In. the which led to the underjtan<hng ,between itho Gpverument. and tho . twp, tpjrtios:.ioni'.thfl,: licensing>question;; ' the. :■ Kow Zealand Alliancp was .represented by- 'Mr. :■? Wesley. Spragg,.,(president),' the, Rev.. A. Dewd-. • . . nay (chaunlan:o£ the executive), and .the llev.' J. Dawsonc (secretary)/;'Mt- Spragg "has re- • turned to Auckland, but Mr. Dawson and Mr. ■ Dewdney, whon:seon by a Dominion reporter at tho closo of a meeting of the executive • ,■ tg6. f .euh]cct. gentlemencombined. in :!: ~ .putting their, -wwe: into swords as ; follows'"We had "been urKing vthe Government to/ . m« U3 legislation ■ thi?. .session, but .we woro i • told that owing' to the shortness ,of the ses-£ion-.and the controversial Mature of our proposals. jt would ibe (impossible -to pass a lneasure< through the.-House, "unless some - sort oj i / . nnrfual",arrangement cflsjld'be come to on tho ■v; Wtal • I'hoso points were:— ■; ■ "(1) The .question of the majority;: "(2) Dominion option; "(3) The;lerngth'!ofvtho-'penod-' between the taking of.the poll and; ths coming into operation of No-ldoenso, if earned. > i "The. Hon. Dr. iFJndlay, •on -.behalf of the Government, < asked: us.. whether,. in.- view, of . the - impossibility jof;. g6tting :our:-: demands.'.satis..'. ■ fied in,full; we would consider an irreducible •. minimum which it would: bp possible to om<- . . body in legisktion.: We, sought to make it :• clear .that ,-we could-not.,recede from the ;prin- ; . eiplea the mtroduced by: Mr. - Lauren- ■ «in, but in view . of. .the impossibility of' getting all ws wo 'said that ifther<"Wii3' . . any, oharae'of.aniatarialadvanco we 6hould' be quite prepared to consider It. The Hon Dr. Findlay:negotiated,! with' the'. other " side, and laid thoir .torms be-'oro us. Fiually.'as a , lesult o£ several rintelwews .which we had with him, the-.proposals as :published were: agreed to. .TWa.-rocogmeo that' in' .agreeing/, to-','these i . taras. we .art making: considerable : concessions i ~ m.thp, hope, that-w may get a final .settlement-! ;....■ .- through tki Dominion option-.vote:-'■ In the first Vi: : place,r.we havii;-surrcndtvcd the Reduction is-1 Bne,- wlnch.;lias prored |,very valuable in many elecirirafaSs.-Then :.agai!a» ; our demand has aiv I wfcysbeen for decisiop oy a. bare niajority, and I •■!'! me sull hold;,this to be .-the .true - democratic piinciple, which ought to be. observed.-, We have,. however, agreed, to a compromise which ■ : ?P93 .just to -an' ex- . . .tOTsion. of ._tho,?tme. after;.which a local option pjll resulUhg .m favour >of -No-License "becomes operative. The period n6w is six ihontlis, and - we'have cOiiAcnted'to. a. t"W'o.yfu\r period. "We ... - : - this ; as a :very considerable: concession; • and we. submit -.that: it shows. that : we 'have' mot ■ ]thj t of the;other side and of the- Govern- . imant: with ..tho . .utjnost'ihßerality/: The -period -jof.-five..yearaj.between the. carrying of 'Dominion . - (.-■ Jprohibiiion'j' and its-, coming. into Operation' should, give ample time for the Government to niaJlG. wtiat. arrangements of ..the/finances may be necessary, ..while .those- engaged in tlje trade • • will K),able, iuring so. long.a period,' to- trans^ ■ : fw;their:intcros(B to. other chalinols.' . -principlG iof. making.-Dominion prohibi- : toll,.oUe.if^uo:.with local-:No-ljoeii60,.so far as . the .liallot; paper, is concerned, was embodied in ,';.}:'.'.-.'.:'Mr...'l<aaTegMnf»>BiH > '.aiid'haß.the approval of . tho -New Zealand Alliance.- In -tact;- -Mr ' i, . Laurenson's j.Bill represents our policy, which : , has bcen modified lor the'purpose ot getting i '■ Several; meetings of the Alliance Tiecutive were hejd dilr--the ; negotiations; 7 and -We ;; had their approval.at-every step." ' i' :

"A BOLT- FROM THE BtUE." ' THE 'WINU, AND SEIRI r MERCHANTS NOT ' CONSULTED. ' / .On? featute.ip regard.to.the arrangement or ! . , . ■ #greeinentvl)etweon the i liquor party, and the ;i ' . representatives of the' New Zcaland, Alliance : is ; v : interesting.; Th<> statement issued .-jvsustuii'•%«' ' >.:' published broadcast- said that the arrangement r ■ was ■betwsien/"the'representatives of the''New . . ■■■; ;■ Zealand 'AUjanfco . on: - the ■ OJIQ hand and 'aU . / branches,of the brewing;*wholesale;license, and i ;; V. .on : the othoi'."i This statement is challenged by. certain; members of,''the-trade" 1 v inrWeUirigtaii!r. l ;■ f"Vf-■- t }> > -'A' DoinmoNi represontativo callod on Mr. H, J. Williams, secretary of tho Wellington : . licensed - Victuallers'- Association,' and showed :<•. hm the iproposals said to .hare , been arranged ; r : between'the, two parties, thatit'was the first;* he .had scon of. therri,' and lie.' 'know ! little'or ; nothing about them. He knew that'thero was something going on, but had not been concerned or made a party to it m any way. ' /The; (juration-then orcurred—if.tne secretary! .. of the Licensed ,Victuallers' 'Association ".was not-fully,;Cognisant of, what was going on mroi spect .to a matfer .wMch .BO 'immediately.. .'affected'the mombars, who was? ■ • representative. then waited, on :1 , a fow of the ;representative wine • and ■' spirit ' ; j merchants.to; ascertain: if. the arrangement'had been made with their knowledgo and. consent, r- ' Mr. Waller Nathan, of W. If. Banaatync and : C 0. ,; said that the "arransocpent"; was newß to • ' ! him; though "he was. very much. interested in what was proposed. "I never received tho -' slightest -ratification.:of tire. business, and- as ■ : : far as* -1 (am aware no wine and spirit mer- ' ; chant in Wellington had boon advised of what - 1 ' was'goiag on. ' No opinion or consent has been i B3lcoa to anything of the. kind." , ■: •. . Y He was not ; sure how., the ,proposed; arrange- ''''' BiPiit would work oat .With the removal of the ! Seduction t i Issue .• tho ;position would bo altered •' entirely-' Mr. Nathan added: 'Those influenced by a feeling against the brewers over tho tied;'house qfetiooi : or' the* drunkenness soon in -badly-condTicted hotels to vote. Reduction,' will thmk twice about-votingNo-License whenit'K made ckax thiit it will help topro- ■ .wat 'tbw- dwatog -a .glass-of. wse-ww #•

friend If national prohibition is carried you will bud people with all tortb of imaginative ailments getting along to the chemists for a drop of ■fciiake-bite'—and the chemists' estnb lislunents will in timo develop into dram shops, like they nro in several States ot America "I rem raber when I was in business in Auckland, being puz/led at the enormous demand for a certain brand of perfume We foVnd out that it Übod to do , drunk as a spirit The same with ' pain killer '—lor, the quantities we used to sell in districts where they cuuld get no liquor l Ugh, a drop of it gois down like a torchlight procession Thits what it would come to again 11 a countrj without license , " Mr 1 Young, of tlie firm of W T Young and Co, one of the oldest established wine and spirit films in Wellington, said that his firm hid not been consulted about the " ar rangement" He had hcaul about it after wards from one who was -\t the meeting where if was fixed np, nnd had been told that ovorj diusc h.wl been carefnlh consnlored He conk) not understand them conceding tho No Liconse ppnplp another "1 per cent—making the maiontj and eleven twentieths one instead of three-fifths That would doubtless prove a valuable con cission for the Alliance people If it had been an eloven-twontieths majontv at tho last elec tion Wellington would onlj have missed "no I license" by a few votes Mr. Jfoss,,manaKor'for Messrs.Johnston and Co, stated that he had not been consulted in the nnlter, nor hid it been brought bi'foic tho Merchants' Association Another inteiosted party said that the mat tci had oyidiMitlv boon arranged bv the browcrs, and mentioned the names of persons interested in \nckland Wellington, and Dun edin breweries as,having arranged the whole thing

■ VARIOUS OPINIONS.- .< I ■ WHAT MEMBERS: OF PARLIAMENT I . *■ THINK; Though many members, aro prepared to talk about the ;.proposed" licensing legislation jirivately,. they are .not prepared to say anything of .importance for. publication. Soine' members are..inclined to rather -resent. an attempt to settle, thie question by .a, conference outside Parliament/ It /is - understood that agree-, itfent , was arrived ,at consequent upon'a. scries. of resblutions,.between Dr; CFindlay;and representatives .of each .party. The question of. State, control,- it;.is,'stated ti did;hqt come;,up ;for ...corir. siderauon. . According to some .people, , who- are 'ndt:prohibitionists, the, v. proposals, especially 'relating to the -national option issue, will mein a set-back ,to„ prohibition.,' I,t'- is pointed out that .ioany- moderates vote for liquor.,- for, .consumption • in'; tlieir.-Qwn , hpm es;. Vhereas-^they-r,might. not'vote!!fo'r , : it'.,undbiv the new, proposal, .-as ,Dotoimm : opti(m might, ,h.e ,'carried;-' and they;- could . then not: obtain - any liquoi-: fofrprivafo cinsmnptibn.' : The prohibitionists, ;!however, 'seem willing to. take this .'risk,. toping no ■ doubt jthait in, time, they will obtain a. sufficient majority to carry national option. One prominent reiormerpa. member o£ the Upper House-Layers that ttwy/will be in; a position ,to. carry it at the' next electibh, '.especially with-.the. reduced majority,, agreed upoii:;; : One niari interested in "Ihe Trade,'' on being questioned, said" that; they were getting- tirea of ; the pnscnt position," wMchiwas highly unaatisfactory, and! Had ■' cost ■ them .an : enoripous Sum; of . money,. which,- if otK'erwisq • :iiiiveitedi .would ."have brought' them in a satisfactory re.turn; without half- the,-worry and risk, -Another ropresantaitive-'of. "the. Trade" said 'the' /com-promise!-,was.'a fair, thing, and '.if :'the>pebple; wanted.-'prohibition let them- Kave-.it.' ; ,-He: hail' at.sfirst'been -."doflbtful: about"some ,'of .the.,,proposals,; : b'ut-was' now. 1 satisfied that legislation on, be Waiter" than' the prfcent law.: | At all events, "the Trade''' ivoiifd-h area: certain tenure, for five-years., Both sides have signed similar. but separate,' statemants i-agreein^-.to, legislation on-, the. [lines stated.,. The 'prohibitionists' J are ' exceedingly ■ .*et ;^ tire'• Bill through . Parliament tms - session.v aiia -if it • does'- come -, up■' for ■ considefit; : tion. tne .prohibitionists; iin ..the.iHouse .would, be for "th'eAmost- paxt -with .giving a' silent, votoon-the various clauses intheßill,Eo as'.to^ensure,its. passing this, session. , -

. PRIME MINISTER'S STATEMENT. Sir Joseph Ward, refomug to the ndw proposals, said that it seemed , almost impossible that a settlemeut could be arrived at on the question, but he asked Dγ Findlay to do what he conld in the matter Dγ Tindlny had been for some time past m communication with both parties, and last week he was able to induce both parties to agree t) the conditions now made public , , 'TnUy accredited ( rcpuscntatives of each party/* stated Cγ Joseph Ward, "have mdopondently requested me a pass legislation embodying the proposals this year And each party has undertaken to do all in its power to ■ promote the passage of this legislation In I case of any difference pf opinion oi to draaghts I manship or terms of the Bill, each party has bound 1 itsolf independently to abide absolutely by the decision of the AttomeyGenoral

MB; MASSHY'S OPfNION.^ . Mr, • Massey, Leader of tho Opposition, interviewed by a Dojunion representative, said;— "I do 'not wish, to express any opinion one ■way or the other in • regard to the merits of - the proposals. It: is satisfactory to: sec -what •are, but'it is well to remember that: anyamement - at by . parties .■ outeide/'the Honso is not in any scnso binding upon Pariia- . went. Most of the members <}o not represent oithor of tho. two great, parties,' but the still greater party, commonly .known, as :the Moderates. I hove no donbt that Parfiament will deal with the matter on its-merits"

THE MAJOfIC >. , INTERESTING FIGTJEES; :' V What' electorates would-have ■ earned NoLiconse at tho last poll- liad'the fifty-frro-hmi-dredths "majority . ; qnly; l been-,needed : instead -of the ■ .'threfeflfttwmajority, •:as; -at .present ?,JThat •is"the; quesbon .which.-will occur-,to many on conning over 'the-■proposed amendments- to the Licensing Act. The" under-mentioned.' arevthe electorates "..which carried \ Contmnanfc, . .but would havo 'lost it under the new. proposal (a 55-100 tha majority)•'•■ :• ■ •• ■"'■:. " - Auckland. . v ■/ v ! ; ' • -Valid ,- . . For. jjflr-, i Electorate; • Votes. .• No-License centage. Earnell,. ........ . 6,509 ' :. 3,&iC ' 56.01 Waitemata ....... 5,941 -3,369 , . 56.70 Manakau • ..<5,725 -- ; 3,404 ..." 59.45 Franklin ; 2,470 56 59 , Hawko's Bay. . .' •■ Waipawa 1. 4,911 2,721 55.46 . Taranaki, . .. ( Egmont ■:-2,674 . ••..• .4,672 -.59.57. Wellington. Hutt 6,036 3,619- : 59.95 . Canterbury. Kaiapoi . —. 5,410 -~ ■ 3,002 , 55.48 Goraldina 4,812 ' 2,682 55.73 Waitaki 4,904 2,729 ' 55.64 \ j ;Otago and Southland, ' i ■ •> Dunedm City 20,633 ' 11,686 56 63 Chalmers •- 5,130 2,951- 57.52 i Taion 4,637 2,761 59.54 Dumedui S. ......... 7,376 4,083 ■ i 55.35 ' The provincial percentages were as follow :tt Auckland 1 . — _.™...._...56j21 Hawkes-Bay : 49.20 Taranaki ...............:; ............ 51.05 Wellington 54.82 Nelson, Marlborough, and, Westland .46.99 Canterbury 50.61 Otago ana jSouthland' - 55.&4 1 ;'on. ■ the ;!ahoTe '7 figures'. • (assuming,that. .. ,the. : votes cast f<Sr -Seduction were equally divided), Wellington'and Otago and Southland; would, havo carried No-Licenso had the proposed majority. basis been in- operation . last year. v , ; ,The percentage! for] the. whole of:the Dominion in favour of No-I.ifcerise Wa5.53.45.. :

THE, FIVE YEARS' SUSPENSION. i !.:■ i-!By'T«]Mtr»Dh.-Pri!«a Association/ > ■''■■■■ i-*' Dunodin, 'November 11. ■ ! , In conversation withian. "Ota|»o .Daily TJmcs" irepprtcr.ito-nigfit,:'.Mr. A. S.'.Adarha, well known .as oaetf the: leaders of. thej No-Lic»rise move-. , : m«nt,-"eai(l that ; tho>, main : reason''for r'the': five delay in. regard to n<4ionU prohibition ;was thai/ on its 'being "'carried,' the whole of i' the .Dominion.. revenue derived from liquor ivould' be etruok off, and, as the Minister.'for- ' Finance would have to effect readjustments to itho',extent' o{ '^£500,000-or ' for 'a- few ■years; until a- new' condition of affaire had had 1 ."time: to'.,assort itself, ;and the 'revenue' from tho: increased consumptions of other -articles i would Mount :to .ii sufficient slim ~toy. repl^be the revenue from liquor, it was considered'fair ,'to:! fix stiflh • a." time' limit The' co'nc&sioni was,, he said, 1 : valuable to the trade, .because 'it: .wouk^'give-brewers and licensees' time to dispose of stocks and seek. now investments for their capital.' '. ' , - Mr( Adams ■ added that the Bill; ought •tp proiri'd^,very, fully,'against -the possibility; of rSik- ; less trading, by licensees--during the, period of suspension in .- the event, >of No-License - being ca.rri<xl.' . . y ; :' . '. ' ■ . .In" conclusion, Mr.' Adams spoke in high term's of 'praise.-..0f ■Dr. l 'l , jndlasy \iho had !cArtied {te-uuDg through from etart k Snkh, ' '