OLD AGE PENSIONS.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 644, 22 October 1909, Page 8

OLD AGE PENSIONS.

• A NEEDED REFORM. . DEPUTATION TO THE PRDIE MINISTER.' ■ '' Close on forty membbrs of : both Houses of s Parliament waited on the Prime* Minister ;yes--1 terday to request that tho vnluo of the homes ' of old ago pensioners should not count against the amount-of the pension.' It was stated that ' fully a dozen other members would havo sup- : ported tho request if they .had been.ablo to be j present. • ./• " . \ ~ j Mr. T. E. Taylor.(ChristchiircU North) stated ; that the proposal in question had been advocated over since the old ago pensions system I was established. There was a. very widespread \\ desire that : tUo penalty now imposed up*Dn the 1 thrift of old ago pensioners, by '■ which the j value of their homes abovo,,£lso was counted , against their claim, should be removed. What- • ever tho value, of tho home was, so long as it : was only the result of their taste and their

thrift; it should not bo a disadvantage to them. .'At'present .the better class of colonists had fa) 'see.'less thrifty, pensioners getting the full amount while they, because they had improved their homes, were not eligible to receive the full sum. Thero were now 13,560 old ago. pensioners, and the fund totalled .£336,000.' To give the full pension to all the pensioners .would:mean an increase of J!19,454. .-•• ' -,■■■■.•'.■ . : A PatKetic ,Case.' :/ , Mr. Massey, Loader, of tho' -Oppositibni eaid he had. felt very-strongly on this matter for a long .time ..past.';, An injustice was done to those persons who were thrifty 'enough to establish a home for the.msolves.Jle read,a letter from a dying old ago pensioner, who stated that if he lived his pension would bo X2l next year.- "But the!probability is'tliat lone beforo the end : of the pension, year the end will havo come. With what result? My own pension wi]l have ceased, aud the , accumulated property, no longer divided, would be all credited to my wife, whose pension would therefore terminate also, arid this without one'penny increase in income This seems to mo a'very, hard case, and one in which you, might see your way to move, and if possible get the Government to see it in a reasonable light;- I think I would' die more,, content could thia wrong bo pu right. ■■•"-••,. .-, -'. ■ . ■ ■ •, ■ 1 ' . . The Wages of Wives. ' '..'''. _slr. J. P; Luke mentioned the case of pensioners whoso claims, to the pension v;ere diminished on account, of wages earned by their wives. Ho thought that this system should also be reconsidered. : ,1 . ; The. Hon. A. K. Guinness said that the object of the-deputation had his heartfelt sympathy and support. The old age ■ pensioners who suffered; by.the fact 1 -that they had made themselves'homes were not treated alike, since the valuations were much higher in anno places '.than in others., i There -was also a- difficulty in'the. Act about the interpretation of "income." ■: If a man put his money in the bank arid.drew it out it was called income', but if.he put.it in a tin pot and'drew.it out it was not. so described. .:■ i« •■■■■■, •• * ■. Mr. A; E. Glover (Auckland) , urged that when certificates.of'birth, were-'not available to support pension-claims, the Government-should accept, a. guarantee from a reliable -personthat- he 'had known the applicant for, , a certain number, of years..' •■;.• ■ To Abolish Subterfuge. , ' ■Mr., G.' W. Bussell (Avon) said that- the pre.' 'sent regulations led to.a lot of. subterfuge, ,nnd it was'desirable'that the pension shouU ■be a clean thing. - ■-.., .'■-,■ -■.'.;, «% A , L-; P erdmi "i'fWellington North), said that the. proposal: had his. warmest ' 'sympathy, and when .it canie before the House as he was sure'it-would'very soon, he-would be glad to give it- his enthusiastic support. ;.Mr. D, il'Laren (Wellington East) said that, lnview- pf the difference of values in' different places, the disability was specially felt by the old people in the. cities, whose burdens were already, greater owing to the-higher, cost oi living.. -''-, -...■:.•..'..■' ' ,-, :■-■ ■.;■.■:•■;' •;:' ■ Several other' speakers supported the- re. quest. . ■■ ■ .'-..'.■: • ■ ■.. -.'... ..Mr. F. E. Banmo (A,uckland East) urged that' if hnaucial reasons-would not allow -the- request to be granted in full, exemption would be granted for the double home -up to' .&GSO, and in a, corresponding measure for the homes of single- men.'. , -. .■; ■ ..'■ • .• •., Sir Joseph Ward's Reply. : • Sir Joseph Ward said ho'would be very glad to give full consideration to the representations. Ho was in full sympathy, .with giving effect to the proposal if.it was possible in aproper way. Ho liad been.L-oing into'tho matter very .carefully, and. would like to do some;thing, but how far ho coiild go yet he was not quite prepared to say.. If. the-proposal could be met by an increaso of to the pension fund no would be prepared to say "yes" straight away, but that was not going to meet H.. If the proposed exemption of the; homes wore to stop with, tho number who.were now debarred on that account ho could agree to the.request at once, but it means, as far as he could* jud"e an increase of; over ,£50,00(1 a year, and that was, where he had to bo. very careful, befure committuig'the country to. an alteration of the system. As to. whether the limit of .£OSO be the one for exemption, if that amount was'to stand ho thought there was a difficulty fa; tho way of carryiug out what was wanted. He had been looking at the matter to see what a reduction of, the value would mean,, and how far it would be fnir to tho people who from their circumstances wero entitled to old age pensions. Under, the alteration madoin tho Act in 1908 the liability had increased ■ from mm * *W». Hf knew that a special disability attached to those in the ' expensive cities which was not intended to exist Ho would, he hoped, Jje able to submit legislation on practical lines, and.would go as far » s Z could to remove the disability that at present existed, There woro a food many old age pensioners .who had relatives, some in irood uosi tipns, m diflerent parts of..the countrv, a,id wlint happened in many cases as soon-'as tho home was released was that it was handed over to those people cither before.or after death. Ho did pot think it was quite a right thing practiailly to make a present of- XGSO to people who were well able if they chose to support their aged parents. " . ; « T M e 0 ,?. [inis^ r si'J that this was.one Df tho dilhculties: that required to be'consulur«l, but ho honed to submit legislation' that k-o::M iinprovo the yosituin ou the lines rccom-