THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 633, 9 October 1909, Page 10

THE HOUSE.

f ÜBLIC SERVICE BILL. ' 1 FIRST READING AGREED TO. ; res«jneS:iS fittings! : );Werft':,'presented Wld npticeS, of . motiotL ',;. ;; :' r." ; l ,po , n r <^ D «hng that leave Publio ,• Service" -might:,possibly;hot-have session, do so. on S 5.1 1: A; So • desired,,in: tho. first■ ' u mj L feelln B of hostility brptwrfl^i i tl ' fCrown wofo supposed to be the ,-PPhUo:Yseryit(S;;':but' t it had been'fpund fiom, experience during the ivi vtto.lptiblic;, service" j--^'?^®^?P : tions to matters of poller, and the Iknre ir i.'V-vV'M " • ®i a '•:Hptov^t;f.&o' ■'.miSiiagement oftiilmostrciUiroly:# if.-V"i ; ?nfliiencev.w'as. - nbt " Experience In Australia. 1 In the different: States of Australia at ono ■■^it^'^aribus/departnl?ntß, : ' towards ';.tho„. differ-■' gsSiifflsistssass ll t I 'M'® odmirably,:;iS . < enormous .ampunti of. detail work. 1 Every, day, .there Was iVml of s Peo."4 >onefit;;i'.."At,the";prKent time '^'il'|^!^i^-^^'^.-thS.^me;o{ : Mii»istjW must WS c s nsi #inii''Xpplicatio'nJ , 'b , f '■ tho ' "T W™ fr to.an inqmrjvthq.late Hon. i i had informed lnm that.ono of the ■ • ft^.iVSv^t^a.^barrier/.was.''erected ® ?^,yed-tfiepl : .much lun-: , ; tV-. 1 >wotiy .'frbmv those - ; VrKor.d6isired - - aih' thi.i (State, f ,!,addw.;lrh i,l?ride,.-:"m'aSy. ; jiiblic' .. .- on.) fronld- desirawto :to- ii -condition-i of. , fthe: absoitfty&ii•' .1/'?i!? a^S' appointments arid ,pfomo~ liftln frnikL * Speakoi)' had taken bo mo llttlo .#pnble,^ito.-ascortam..^thoi- other 1 '•■-'•"rK tt; WaddelV'FioA ftfldi-,-declared" K : > fcS|Wice.v Bpaird % in; .Kpw?'SdutK ' admirably, ' , ?' ; ffc:A'jJ ! ' ,^n ?'- :^?d;,.wr f .j;»^;systen.;of re'a-''. 6 i^S^ h ;Now- • -to ."any:"alteraThe Bill Exnlalned, ; ( ' tnati;iiv.would . contain / a Siif?;/^ u^vPin°'n?-rthe., ; pubhc:;service under/the •. :; .. .i : ,cnargo ,of commissioner : and:, tu'o assistant ' commissioned, ilo preferred such coutrdP-t'o i Vic- : - ; 'S : 1; 1 e?, of' •; : U. 'comm isaioiiers.:. would bo "-provided (hiit tho chief mN 7 ;'o^nissioner,;,should b6 appointed, for .a period of seven years, atid that-he'should'only,, be. h W Mmoxcd'tfrdmaiffipe^if^vhe, be'suspendedyjy- the' . Govornor,'and'if that suspension bo confirmed' by : :?v?^■. l ',g^^tllo : ■^.■fe'.withiis.j:fourteen' daysTof.ithe: opening of'Parlia- , • '. 'ment,-the appointment-,should stand. Mr.,Wilforil. C6uld'.-Earlianieilt: cut: dfiwtfi'hfo; - Balary; V yqa^ild.ifotc&'ihimvta'Tesigii'.;^,,:;. '.v l ;■' - -' do it"'^"'^-'/^^ ( tty oi. ,tho . i-onief. - commissioner ' '.to- 1 jfliyid6-the. t sorTice;>into 0 ? ;s;.;trdtiy>y prof essional> y cler ' Pro->-mptioDSV. ana •. appointmeh ts. - would, 'he "regulated , >7 thoTchicf coTnmissioner.i-whoVwbuW ha-ve v « : tho. control'.soi'far the : t. v 6niploynient rof ' -|,;,;v:temporary ihaMß;,tfas;;concerned. ; -There would " >, be a provision In the Bill'to the effect that i v ijtvorlters Jwhois/were;: granted temporary employment than "six'- months,^- except. in tho .:sase , Et»":s ; °f:Publie-works^-^He^Jiroposiid; that thete jshould ; ,fsj-;.b9 (constituted;.{a.',Bqard:.-6f;/Appeial,/ consisting of Vjudge, of. the.Supreme; :■•"Courfci:.oi-';;,the' , Arbitration-'Court, ; tho chiof coinmissiouQr/ and- : f y;/4:an ! belonging; to the particular - Depart-: ■:iiia,'>.mont.;in-i questions-..*lf ,-la';publio- serVant'-con-' sidered -that the, treatment which had bieri accorded, him . in. regard to . promotion, increase■M ;of ■:.salary , ,':etc.V:was.-.unfair, he would be >blo '4/;,.k:; to: appeal !'td' :'the' propfis&l .tribunal-.-T-It -was „ ;• proposed. that-.the;-Railwayi»,police, :ahd Educa- ■ tion Departiiients.;:; should,:.' be."', dealt/ ".With under, If ':''a'Asuitabla f.,,'-,<'-.chief: :commissioher, i -"fre^' - stilt -.would ; Vd"; that'; tho public' scr- ■ rice would, -be'- completely revolutionised, r.; .;»;whaie : :ciyil f ttrvicei:of thocolony'.wouldbo .> placed: 1 n infiiiitely ' ;jocisitidiv' bv this chango. He be ie>ed that his Bill wfiuld effect - < . threo things. It would produce a hotter public service, it would'i'produco for : "tho public service ' make impossible, ': -.:ho .belioycd.sthe .recurrence- of. a policy of re- . ti-c-nchrncnt.-.because it', would -be' the duty tt ' -.?'.'"K:;.tho' t the publio b:.'',::';-sevvlce^with';eCßnbmy.;-v-,The; eventa.;bf,the past -ithe-:^'-statement "of'--the . .'" Prime-Ministerthat,he could save a quarter of - a million byirttrencllmfot in - the public ser-' reform, : He would makp,the. Government :a-present of '• . this Billv-andSif'-they would reform>,thß civil-1 sSrvips thsy would receive credit from, sources.' wlionc? they least expected it.

PRIME MINISTER IN REPLY. ' Silt JOSI'PH,WARD, in replying,.said that v when- notico #m given of this Bill ■ last session ' ho. raised a question as to whether is was in .■ bate lt/beforeJahynlMnber-'oi-the*Houso l hidseen .the HiHi'. ■ He had- accepted,the Speaker's .• :ri;li Hi; that Mn 'Herduiari's action "was jit/bMrtv ■. but.he would ■ ask?tho-Houso at an • early..iiato\| ; tj amend the.Standing l Orders. .'.Th'ey-Were'iflr'l ■»» » T t*=r? l ;. - > ( "rv jjosition-iif-.aiu' MemßDr"*» 1

thi> House, merely on giving notice of tho in , treduotion-of-a Bill, could: get up and deliver ' !a_ speech on matters' possibly, outside the provisions of the Bill, whicklio could not do if tho measure was before the House. Under tho Standing Orders tlio member could not movo ihu. second aeadinp'.qf the' Bill, and he stood coin ictfd of a deliberate evasion of tho StandPtdor, ("No, no.") If ho got to the stage . of the second reading being tailed on ho could not movo tho second: reading. .' Mr. Massey: Why not P.- . :Tho Prime Minister: Because it provides for the .spending of money. ■>- , -■•■.Mr. Massey: .Ifs 'been dono. ' - "/Tho Prime Minister Well, I think tho Speaker would rulo it could not bo done. Ho has ruled before that it could not*bo done."He did ;not belioyo such. a ithing could be done in any Parliament m the as- had boon done that day. There wore many other ways, in which a- member could air his views. It was' just possible Mr. Herdman had hot prepared a ■ Bill. ' ■ ; . ' "V- ■ ' Mr. Mnssey: Ho .had the Bill ,in his .hand. Tho Prime Minister" said it. would mean 1 an extraordinary "waste of time if over}' member followed tho .example.- He would give-notice 5 ;')p r .Orders amended in the " general" interests'of tho business of the country.--- Ho~ thanked ihe hon. member for his magnanimity'Jiipresenting the Bill to the Government; it was particularly' kind of'him. • ;Mr. Herdman suggested that this . Bill was ■ in the interests-of economy, but'he ■had just askod the Government to spend a •larger sum_ in his own electorate. 'There was .ladi economist for them. -He' wanted ;:to know ,if Mr. Herdmar. had read, the report of tho '.-Kailway Commissioners South Wales -■this. year. • H<srshoold;sread. ! - it,' aid see what ■the'.. Controller ' ami Antlito-'Gciieral said of ltvirThe Sinister .for.'Railways would put on record, this',,'.session ..wliati was said' concerning it. It would bo very valuable' iii educating the peoplo of the ■ country.',"; Ha(l Mr. Herdman read, n-hat a Royal Commission- recently reported in regard, to a ; largo, public'department in—Victoria, which ..was. under commissioners? Uidrhe,-know.ithat among' other things it was said that an expenditure of, lie thought, nearly two millions was required in connection with .a; department there; during tho time of/those ;.«xces3iy"ply;.'indepehdentj'. high-toned, virtuous he.aware that there was seething discontent in;'branches of the public .service ;.in, Australia oh account of insufficient rates^of. pay,',long hours, and other disabilities? .-Mr. Herdrjan suggested that ono' man in this" country,, should,]io; able..to .dismiss any person: 'service'it his will, and give ; effect toswhat. might be \unfair- and improper ,nfith. regard to. the members of the railway' •Service.andpublic,-service; Tho criticism' iwhich .Mr. Herdman,,and others, were entitled ; tp...indulge, m now with respect to retronchpent would; not -be possible under tho system : he.'proposed, 'but the whole.of the employees'' i.in, tho,service wqlild bo removed from tho' control of, the members of "that House, 'and placed .under ,one-.commissioner, whoso action' 'fWM O .' be.interfered with except by a reso. lil ' P"tK, Houscs.V, Ho ; Jointed , out that,there .was oidv one branch of, tho Legislature ' •(in this^ country which conld.denl with a mat-'' iter. finance—tho House"of Repre--sontatives. , And yet' tho theory.-was piit'forward. of :a Vote - of both.-Houses" for tho re-' , ,moval ,of -In connection with' ' •the railway" Service "m -this 'country, commit ■ had," proved unsuccessful. . ■ .Mr. .Massey ;Thoy woifi moro successful than :: . ... • 7 i,; «, wv mc 'i his opinion was -that tho peat_ bulk Of j the people. - had finer vertices than . they over would have had under' a system , of vcommissioner.'f,','-and, iti addition.' the .'.people 'had . control.', .- could not" bo raised for carriagfppf'produce; of minerals/'of k u C '? ntrol r, of Poriiame'nt.. In, the. days of the .Railway Commissioners in -?? uld b ° Taiscd "'»« any .ampunt they-hkfd,'.without tho control of Par.'vfjVs -n\ r ' •Wo liad control. v£P«, F*" l !® ■ not 'control; _Thp fthat a-'discu'ssion. on tailway . was'-not-rrelovtint,' "as ' Mr; •• ,meAt.from^.hiS;.proposals.!v Retrenchment. N -

. Sir '■ Josiopli.- eaid WfefA®. House.Would; ..haye an opportunity of '• ''Hi*iv?^ nm ® nt had doaß /" 'SS had to say on thatt Contended that the Qov--for' the causes whioh led ta.retrenojimentyalt did-.what it re--cognised to bo best in'the'interests of tho coun.wy : in, t the : circumstances, and- at the proper tiM.he_,m>uldl bo quite willing to go.into the' matter, off:.the., administration' of Deptirt.monts during,the past twelve months. ■He was' [preparedFjo/co ftrthM; sa\d show what -had been - dJao. lft the twenty years, and to ?i5 i the conditions "of atP6intment for the'last tMrt.y-Ave, < .y.ears,: giving' .factsKand 'names andsalaries. ,A. referenco had. been made to ifig;the^publiorseTOcb: : with; -iieeless'ftidividuals for. political'•''purges,'' 'During' the'time he' had been ;a : ,for: ap-: kers of tho .Opposition',' ' .. .•• ■ ; . , , ' Mr. Massoy. Why not? ' ••

The'• Prime, Minister,- claimed that: no member of the Opposition:c6uld:fairly Bay-that.he had not received . fair consideration- in- 'connection with-the,.service.: .JVhon, Mr. Herdman spokeof . useless ihdiyjdutyls", 'ho.'.inust know who thoy Wre.' Ho asfiofl him ! i6 iiidiviJuals, acnjl; remove; thtf the other meml; bars of theisecvice. g§ir (y ToSeph •. claimed that , .whonv no niaii yfas', eypfe-'hpp'ointed to:'a--position in that- Do-' | tertment.unlc£a .thero. : ,ii'ai : .lf''ork for. him to do.. -The samo.,applied; t0.,,th0, Post. and- Telegraph i b'-sV4)rr"'dtb«r"jM:. that any coahtry in flio World had a better public sorvicfy'thay'Now'* Zealand.':: Ho' didi hot '/propose ■ , : .the: proposals. contained : iii 'the Eill a t l '\U',-//n it rcaohcd ,t;ie ficcondread/•hig;ho .Trouldi;b^:'glad>tpKdeal ; wift itsi.va'rious aspects. fa^lK'!iThe i; ,GbVernj'aent 1 had "rib' other motivo,th'oji , ; tff;cenßnci'ittV , pbli(i s&rviceiirthe .beslf.■; ,MR. MAS3EY'S REMARKS. V;Mr. .MASSEY ■ said -'he;'vr'os not surprised lei ;hear, the the Housei.that hi would ; ask ..parliament '.to agree. to, an amendment: of rtlie/,Standing Orders that: would make it impossible.Jfor'any member to discuss a'Bill -.on' the -pfoppial yfor leave to. introduce.,'. '' 'Ho would reteilf'djifbmbers; however, of what'.'.ha'd ;beeri goiriff/ds,<iti respect of r ,the Houso of'Bepriv dozoii years' past.; Their'rights and; privueg^S' , 'Tiad.:;)ifoiii(,'continually ■ curtailed, and: restricted, and, they had'nothing .like-jtjio opportunities' they ,o'ught to.ihttv'o for the proper: discussion"of proposals that came" before Portia-: me'nt. : : Ifc„iwas: a ;very : ,extraordinary, thing that ;the Prim'eTMiuijter, should 1 object to ,a: speech being made by an Opposition ■ member when he chose 'io" take' advantage Of his; opportunities . on ■introducing a Bill.--'A 'similar course had been taken by Mr. Hogg in connection with his Flour Duties Abolition Bill, and: that was not the first time by a'great •many. 1 ' The late Mr. Georgo Fish'ov had done the; same thing, and no ob ; ' . jootion was ' raised 'by /any member of . the 'Souse.' .The' late ,'Mr. Se'ddOn/had introduced 'a.Bill which was on all fours with and exactly parallel:'to., the present .'.8i11,.: makings'a long: ./speech 6m the, second reading, and no objection :was .a liberal fdrid democratic* Government: in • power at. ,that\ time. :-'.He wasHiiorry? to .say. that times..had '.changed .v rin.' . that*.' respects H« 'thought,' that •.thOrPtime /Minister should express the . gratiWo::of. ;i Ptt.rliainent fai Mr. was Hot the slightest' doubt that' iinceilast'sessioii'Ke had/gone to a great deal "of acquiring.;, information in regard toftho publio services of other countries. ,The strong&t argument .for reform: in the pub, lie 'service'was tne'state-of . the service ;at tl^fi rfrMont time, and-, the." Prime; Minister knew,. ■■perfectly/Swell-what-, that/state-was. ■ It wis not only''a disgrace to : the Government and. Ministers;*;but a .disgrace'to Parliament for not having, looked, more oatefnUy into things than they had'done for some' time past. Mr. Massey defended the' aotioh of members of the Opposition. in-taking advantage of:tho-present system Of appointment,. in the, interests of their constituents„"whil6 that ' system lasted. - ,He. did not liko■the system,'-ho:.would like to bring about reform, ;but. the members, of his party, had theirt'"duties to the publio tO -consider {h ■ the meantime. 'Whether 'they had received fair play was .-altogether beside the issue, which- was whether v the present: system of,, control of the public service was a satisfactory and economic -t)al, one. j;jt was -neitjiei;-,satisfactory, nor- ecor nomical, and-so .reforin'.was urgently required;:, ■He felt absolutely-certain that at the second reading tfio Prime Minister would raise, a poilit of order;'andvit-would not be possible for Mt. Hordman to proceed further with tho measure. But as the public eervico grew,; so would tHo arguments -grow/ in favour of;,reform. The. Prime Minister would block that Bill, he did not doubt.that ho would do so, but the timo I would com* when the publio Would demand it; and ho tfonldnot-heat.-all Burprisod to-find l .th® Goverdmorit, coming/rounfl to their.opinion;' Las they, had done! on m&ny|/.uthor matters. *

OTHER SPEAKERS. MR. FISHER reminded the Primo Minister that in ,1805 ho advooatcd what ho !now cod,demned.'.v, • \ Sir Joseph: "Was .the Bill introduced by Gov* ornor's Message? Fisher: It is not-stated.' '. The njember for -Wellington Central wont ,on -to -point .out. that-: in; regard to another 'Bill tho.flate Mr. Seddon had defended thb • right which, Mr. Herdman'had claimed. "If "' . added Mr,',JFieh«r,v:''the. .'Prime Mintoter at. tempts to dsprw meabm cf till* Houm af

any privilege which is not given for the purpose. of enabling..members :.to..ploy, ..with the time of the Houso, he is going to have a bigger contract than he imagined." . Mr. WRIGHiP was about to refer to the position of employees' in the railways uhdor 'the present system;of control. . .• -i Speaker;;, The hon., member cannot refer either.to; the past or present management of tuj railways apring- the .debate.-.:, -: /•.■' ;,. V: _Mr. Wright '.proceeded to ask whether' the Government took up the position that all the posts in the civil service were only for followers of the Government. He for one would never expect anyone whom he .recommended ! to receivo appointment unless he merited' tho position. The people whom. he represented paid thoir share of the taxation, and they had a perJ e Sfii ri^>r»i o a ,of the expenditure. MR. MALCOLM ,; aIso supported the introduction of the'Bill. . - , The PRIME MINISTER stated that he had been, misrepresented, on a certain, point. Somo of thoso who had takfen part in the debate seemed to . overlook, the jfact. that >Mr.- Herd* man had made the following statement: "The Government was' stuffing the publio service with useless individuals. ; Mr.. Herdman: What I .said was : -The Gov-! ernment stuffed' the public service." > i Sir_Josoph went on to say' that: members : of the Opposition: had made numbers of recomfor appointments useless - individuals, had been appointed on their recommendation?'' V.v:'

. . motion . for ..leave ;to be .gHeri to introduce the BUI-having b<rcn-put, the Hon. the Speaker deolared ; in favour'of the "Ayes." Subsequently a.; division'was sought, with the following result:^:,-'.; D(.VISION LIST. 1 Ayes (55). > '..Allen, ' Luke . Anderson 'Macdonald : Arnold . Mackenzie, Hon. T. I „ „ , - (Taien). Bollard . M'Laron Brown Malcolm ! Buddo Mander : Buiclc Massey . ... Buxton . Millar Carroll- Ngata Colvin. , Newman • Craigie .v.--'Nosworthy. ••/... Davoy ; ■ Okej : :Pearte •••••;■■ Duncatt, ;,Honi ~-T..: : .PhiUipp9 , :■ :• s (Oamaru) . Duncan, J. (Wairau) .-Pdolo . n Field Rcod * v , . ' lisher ." Bcott'": I'owlds . Seddon : ■Fraser i • Sidey • •.Graham:, , . -Smith : Guthrie . • V Steward . Hafian - To Rangihiroa Hardy , . Thomson, G. M. , " • '(Dunedin North) . ; - Her dm ail '. . / ... Thorasbn; J.. C. - 1 ■ .' (Wallace) Hemes , . . "Ward * Hine . Wilford- ' Hogg.' v'; ; .Wright' ■-■ 1; Laur6nson ; >\.v . • Noes. (6). •■■ ■■ ■ Dillon,'. ■ -,-r.. ■ M'Kenzie.\Hon.-R. ? -'i, - .:- • * • (Motuoka) • . EU •. /•: . - Taylor, E. .H. •'■'•i-'ifj : *->/ y (Thames)- 'i Hall ' Witty. f s t v FIRST READINGS. In. tho evening the Wellington (city) WaterSupply Loan-Moneys Diversion Bill (Mr. Luko) i and Wolhngton City Milk Supply Bill (Mr. i McLaren) were read "a first time,* and referred to'the Local' Bills- Committee.' - " • ; 'The Houso then decided to resolve, itself into Committee of Supply and.Cpmraittee'of and MeansVto deal .with, the Imprest .Supply Bill. >r- ■■■•'. '

I NORTH, OF. AUCKLAND: RAILWAY; ' : 'miadeh.; lengthy speech. against the proposed, deviation-of tho North.of Auckland .Railway.' He 'stated' that • tho.G6vprnraent:ha'd- finally, decided lit favour of the oastorn.route,', which had beon-'appi'oved by the successive engineers, and now a dovia.tioh':to..the Westward .' was.';.proposed/ '.'which' h? juried' w.onld,. J)e,'T6nser, ,mofß. -expensive;- ; smaller 1 pipn- , lstion^ 'ftp ttrgUe i d;.:th^'th6' r CrbV^nuent' , (s)Uld i not ,nb,w r 'd6Tiaw'tlio iine'oxco&t : bj; I baSSi'hg l ' 7 nri ; Ajithprjpjitibh l Bill..."'{TWliie' sh'oulirgo ■ the . eastorn':r6uto, J and")f : it was tleslrcd'-W"serve requirements,• branch 'lines should' bo' constructed ofterwards on either side.. ,' , Mr. STALL WORTHY (Kaipara) took up the the western route, and warmly re'polled .suggestions of-self-interest on, the part' ■'of Mk„StandfrrJ';"; . v.;'.' •. t . 'Mr.'BßKD'(Bfiy of islands) 'spoke in favour ' of the route, which he' believed ' was' shorter. ' ' r V •'.- .-; ■ ''■iw -W (Minister for Public Works) complained l of misrepresentation in' the remarks- of Mr.- Mander. He' had.gone into ,the questionfon its merits and held that there ■yas not .the slightest difficulty in. deciding which was the better route from the'' point :of.view of the country.• - • - . ' IMPREST SUPPLY- . '. . At 9 p.m. the House wentrinto Committee ?i 9«PPIy. tho Speaker giving up. tho chair to Mr.; Wlli'ord; "A resolution" was passed that 4 sum not exceeding £722,000 -be panted to His Majesty.by ; way of imprest for the services for thoi ycar ending May 31, 1910. The-House'resumed,, and the resolution was •confirmed. It . was, agreed that the House should; on next: Sitting dav,-.resolve -itself again into Committee of "Supply.-. T\j l A motion was OToposed.-lliat r the'^House go Into Committeo ot. .Ways"iind- Meaii6,.lbut Mr. Mander took _ advantage, ;of: tho jriteTyal- to re6iimo,the subject of the northern;-railw,ay, much te-tho''«inutoment;of;iSS»beiii;7. ..-•Vi*. ~ ..'."Mr'. MASSEY, speaking/.bnithe'-second reading of the Bill, said lie* would .liKo.'. to ask for some information regarding the •Apbr'opriation, Bill ■passed /.last session, . and., which approximated a million and a quarter;;, They haa had'.no information about it, though they had been given to ' understand- through ; tho .nowspaper's, that about- half a million had beon raised' locally, and : that , while in London'.the Primp Minister had raised two loans of .£500,(100 each. ■ Regarding the latter, he .would, like to know what they,hid cost, the .rate,- of,.interest,, .the /-price paid, for .the debentures,:,and .'the.',term.>of the loan in each case. . , < ". • The, Prime Ministery;!,shaUv're'ply'i,pn. the third reading. '-ftfr;;; . .- ; :-v v ;?-s; v ■ Mr.-Massoy: That;-,will ; ab forme. 5 ;, :-.t':-s.. ■ Mr.. ifassey staged ' . that\ when r--the Local Bodies' Finance and-Powers'.Act was brought' down, the i.Prima'.'iMinistir. stated .' that the- 1 amendment -_ i.introduced:,-;,wasan", inconsequential one, -,-nnd,. members ,'took his word, tw the Hotose ,;,'would: 'always - take the, word of any; Minister.- - Later on, however, he found, 'more particularly in' regard to .his dis-. trict,, that jts, effect>,ivM to decrease the' sub-' sidy to certain local bodies.' If he had known what was intended when the second reading of the Bill was under consideration, it would not have'. passed that ' night. There wMe 6ther | members who' did not know what, th.B effect would be, and he urged that the, House should have an opportunity, to reconsider the matter. . The second reading of the Bill was adopted. .The ; PBIME' MINISTER, replying to Mr. Massey, said there had been no' discount on the amount, of money sent out here'at ail. It was an, advance of c-ne. million sterling at par, and the' interest was .at 31 per, cent. The term was not,yet fixed. . He. wanted.later to deal with the 'whole', matter.'. He .thought that was as I ,far as he should bo asked to gd' then. With regard to the Local Bodies'. Power? Act, the information he had given to the House waa the information-as he received'it. He had no objection to hiving that particular portion * the Bill referred to the Public Accounts Committee, and reported !on by; them to the House. Tho valuation • Department, -whloh furnished the information to him, had-intended to sug-1 gest the removal of. what appeared to bo a wrong position/ and the. matter would' require to be carefully reviewed, : because a particular i ola6s ;of ptiblio. bodies ' was : being placed at an advantage. "■ Mr. Ma«sey: Disadvantage. ' - ' The.Prime ;Minister: No,.advantage 1 as com' pared with other public bodies.' He did not know tho effect of the Bill at the time. It affected Mr/ Massey's district more than any others "Ho thonght it; was/only right, in the circumstances, that.it'should.,be referred to a committee to report-: to the 1 House, and if it was necessary- to a|ter" legislatipq; he,.was quite prepared to do so. ylt was never; intended that any particular cliiss' of public-'bodies should hive ••an advantage ;as compared-With; others. : The Bill was; read h'.third time, and'passed. The Houso adjourned at 10.20 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday next., ■'