TIMBER COMMISSION.

Dominion, Volume 2, Issue 514, 22 May 1909, Page 6

TIMBER COMMISSION.

FORTH EH EVIDENCE. THE MERITS OF OREGON AND RIMU. Tbe Timber Commission resumed its sittings yesterday morning at tho Dominion Museum, the Hon. T. Y. Duncan, M.P., presiding. All tho other members wero present, namely: Messrs. W. H. Field, M.P.; W. H. P. Barber, J. A. Hanan, M.P., W. T. Jennings, M.P., W. B. Loylxvnd (Auckland), S. L Clarke W. Morcis (Grciynxmili), H. G. Ell, MJP., J. F., Arnold, M.P., i, M.P amj J". AfuryW MJ. ' Andrew Qninfcxn, Kixoaha, with 36 years' experience of the woifc said ho oiisnbutod' "the depression in sawinflGng partly to ipflfttod bind values, hot also largely i to too importation of Oregon proo, althougn j recogniacd the Broajlacea at tlie Quantity latter imported Formerly He could sefl 0.8. (ordmary byUding) timber readily I in the Wellington market, taxi ho had Bold I nono m Wellington since last Jnn&. He 1 ' bad seen large stocks of Oregon in the yards, j buttt) orders wore bonis received for rinm. I Daring the fast ten tcoxsoo bad boon cutting I off Grown tenants' dbd a fw free- i holders, the area being in no case less Ann j 200 acres. He bought tiro stMkding timber from the settles, bant tie -yTxT started cutting tie timber, which, the. settlers would have been obliged by tho Land Board regulations, to destroy. In more than one instance this had enabled now prosperous setttos to retain their holdings. There were I '.P B , m am i around where he had been cutting for the last ten yearc, and all .but on© of them were cutting from Crown tenants holdings, or privately-owned land in u L lM ? IdL HgS- Ho thought the . milleris should also have some credit' for the number of people, employed in catoring for the mill cmployoes, such as bakers, grocers, blacksmiths, ■ etc. Six of tho mills were, to his knowledge, entirely idle, though they had greenbush to work on* Others were working half, and others quarter time, and alto-; gettier over 110 fewer men were now emlaoyed than at this time last year. The timber industry had a special claim for protection on account of the amount of labour it employed. He believed seven-eighths of the selling price was devoted to paying for lab-' our. As an instance throwing light on the question of tho durability of Oregon pine, the witness stated that the railway across tho Taieri Plains was laid in 1873 with Oregon sleepers, and they, soon had to bo replaced.: He did not think: tie Railway Department had repeated JJlo experiment, y A GLOOMY OUTLOOK. -To the Chairman:, He woiild not attribute the whole trouble to Oregon imports. The slackness of the building trade was another causo. To Mr. Field: The mills in his district had an- output of. about 17 million feet a year. The timber chiefly affected by Oregon, competition was 0.8. rinm, which formed less than three-fifths of tho total output, of his' district. Ho considered that two million feet of ..Oregon replacing the 'same quantity .of nmu from, his district must have a seriouß eft-jet. If the depression, continued, 1 there' would bo many bankruptcies among tho small millers, and with tho closing of the smaller milk, there would arise the monopolies which it was sought to avoid;' The capital invested m the mills would be lost, and tho settlers would have to clear away their timber for themselves. Conservation of tho New Zea-. land bush was impracticable except in largo areas, .where the holdings, of small settlers were ■ not adjacent. _ He favoured the prohibition of Oregon timber.O.B. rimu, matai, and tctara were as.good as Oregon, and tho heart of those timbers was'better. Proper 0.8.' rimu was suitable!to put into a ions© that was built to last. Rimu cut green would never be attacked by borer, but dead rimu was invaded by the borer while standing. The-masters and men were on "amicable relations in his district, and sometimes tho men had voluntarily offered to take a holiday when work was slack: Ho never 1 heard, anything ; about the union. " ' ' ■ ' GOOD TIMBER THAT WON'T SELL. ; To Mr. Barber: Witness thought tho imposition of an oxport duty on kauri would be robbery by legislation. They might as well' put such a tax on wheat and butter. The millers would have no difficulty in filling orders for long lengths of rimu. He had 7000 or 8000 feet,of heart timber suitable for cabinetmaking, but could hot sell it. • To Mr. Hanari: He was not in a , position to contradict a statement that not half of tho Oregon that had com© into the country had -been used. .He did not think-tho plant at the mills ; in his district could be improved" l for the class of work dono. If large areas for milling - were available with water carriage,! more economical methods could be Adopted, but ho did not think that many such areas could bo found. . Mr. Hanan suggested the possibility. •of ■ exporting rimu to Canada, whore it was admitted free,: but witness did not favour the idea, thonfh he admitted that he had 'not gone into it. ' THE COST TO BUILDERS. yTo Mr. Jennings: The timber for building a sis-roomed house in his district eight years ago cost an average of 10s. 6d. per 100 ft. It would now cost lis. 9d. per 100 feet. A ,six(roomed house would'takefl 16 or 17 thousand foot. The cost in . Wellington would be greater by 2s. ,Bd. por 100 ft., in addition to , tho local oartago. • Mr. Leyland. stated. that .the kauri mills had in the past supplied the domtuid for long longbhs, ana were; fitted for the purpose.,. This was" a bona'fide demand, and wa-s now largely supplied by Oregon. ;'; ' , . To' Mr. Clarke: He would not-be surprised if seventh-eighths of the price of timber to builders in Wellington, quoted at 18s. Dd. per 100 ft., was spent on labour. He considered that 0.8. rimu was as good as any Orogon he had ever seen. He could not sayj whether Oregon was better suited .for special purposes than Now Zealand timbers, but lie would not' be surprised if some poeple soon tried to_mako out that Nenv Zealand timbers werro suitable for no purpose at all. To Mr. Morris: Ho'did not think there was any difficulty in ■supplying the local market with timber before Oregon began to come in, except for a short timo'when bush fires were prevalent, and ho did not see that the' publichad, benefited b"y tlw importations. Mr. EU: Would it not be a wise policy' for tie sawmiller to precede the settlor?—l have always thought so. To Mr. Arnold: Ho cb'dnotthinktfeitO.B. rimu would bo a higher price to-day if there were no competition of Oregon.. Tho depression from owier oauses would have led to a reduction of pricos. He did not think tha general unemployment was due to the importation of Oregon, though this was a cause of depression and 'unemployment in tio sawmilling trade. i ; ; COMBINATION AMONG MILLERS. He bdioved in trados unions, and' bad often advised men in his employ to join their union. -The award applied to thW district. Ho was a mombcr of the Sawmillors' Association,' which formerly decided tho prices of timber, but in the present depression millers wore allowed to get-any price they could. He was the president (pro torn.) of tho association. He had hoard of no attempt on tha part of tho association to limit tno output of any mill; Many of the orders (when thoro wore any) wont through tho association.. He did not know of tho association over having instructed inillors not, to supply a oorhani merchant or builder-on the ground that he was not a mombor of another association. To Mr. Mandor: He thought most of tha 75ft. lengths of Orogon' that wero- imported were cut up into smaller, sizes. Would you; be surprised to hoar that-a 9-inch plank of 'Oregon \on tho Auckland whaTf had sap on ono sddo and pitJi on tho other?—l'm told Oregon has no sap. Oh, but it has! . \ Witness believed in the treo-planting open ations of tho Government. ' James Malcolm, engineor\ to tho Horowhenua County Council,-gave!, evidence as to tho want of durability of Oregon pino. He had used it and seen it used-wlien working as a carpenter in Dunodin in tho early seventies, and ho knew that in some cases it had to bo taken out many years ago and other timber put in its place.. Ho know of Oregon being in wharf construbtion, and after seven years it wa{\oompletely, i \ .

rotten oxcept one-eighth of an inch on the outsido, winch was preserved by a coating of tar. He had soon it used for scaffold poles, and after four or five years they woro rotten at the bottom. He would not condemn Oregon for aU purposes. It might be alright for beams and joists inside, but he would not nse it for outside work.

To Mr. Field:! He would not. like to use Oregon for window sashes, The framo of tho Maon Collcgo at Otaki was of Oregon, and ho thought this had been a mistake. !To Mr. Lev]and: The only advantage, of Oregon for framing was that it was lighter. He would not credit a statement that gon used os the bottom plates of a building, and ■ placed right on the ground, waa found to, be quite sound after 40 years. In reply to a statement quoted as having been made by Mr. Matthews (Chief Forester) to. the effect that tho Oregon which was used in tie First Ctarch, Dunedin, and which did not last, had previously been bled for turpentine, the witness said that there must bo a mistake, as tbore was no turpentine in. •®r® commission,, at 1 p.m>, adjourned rats 2 pjn. A, CRAZE FOR OREGON. Monism Oregon was' easy to saw. but! did not finish welL lie natiro timber was preferable, but the Oregon waa pushed because there was more profit in it for' the morehant. Also thorn was a craze for Orogon just now, but that, would pass away; Rmra sa® was os good as Oregon. He looked ttpon Oregon as tho most tiseless timber that camo to this country.. Ho would never think of Btretchmg an Oregon beam more ton twenty-five feet without eomo support. Ho thought no barm would be done by admitting Oregon in lengths 65 feet at tho present rato of dnfcy. J° JfcMander: He had never heard of /Utt. lengths being required in buildings. A MASTERTON SAWMILLEU. John sawmffler, ' Mastertbn, raid that while admitting the tightness of . money market he was convinced that the ° a(i also an injurious the industry; Ho'thought thero.; should bo protection against Oregon timber. had been closed since November. Ho nod no oruenj. ' To Mr. Field: He did not know of any attempt on the pari of large milleis to under-1 sell the small men, and drive them out ofi busmess. Ho .supposed that .the; lightness' of Oregon, and tho ease with which it was radedand sawed; to the'builders. . lo ?fr.- Barber: The Wairarapa SawmiW Association, to which ho bqlouged, was not oonnected with the Wellington Timber Merchants Association. His association would, anyfey lm a privateindividual or to A WELLINGTON TOILDEn. , ; ; j . H.. Bennett, builder and contractor. Chairman of the Executive of the Now Zealand Fodoratod Buildors' Asso raation, based his initial stajxsneilt on the pricei lists, issuod hy a Sydney , timber firm in, April of last year, and those, of the Wellington timber merchants. 0.8. timber (which in years gone by waa "take it as it comes off the log," Irai was now practically all sap) was listed at 14s. 6d., but if 75 per cent, hoart were required, the price would bo 18s. or 3s. 6d. per 100 ft, more, the labour in each case being' tho' same. Further, if it were clean (without knots'or other defects), though green, tho prico roso to 245. : These prices applied to lengths up to. 20ft. Over that length,' up to'and, including 25ft, it cost 6d. par f<x>t per hundred ojSra: 28 to 30ft-, 9d. per foot per 100 extra; whilst for heart building timber it rose. 9d.\ to 25ft., 26 to 30ft., la. 6d., 31 to 35ft. 2s. 6d. Oregon, at that time, rose 3d.,per foot,per 100 over 24ft. On tho"torogoing'prioos, a 33ft. stick of O.B.'limn cost at the rate of 335. per, 100 ft., and heart building rimu at ,375. 6d. Oregon, which at that time was listed at ,17s. 6d., per 100 ft., up to • 24ft; lengths,-, would-be only 19s. 9d. per 100 for 33ft lengths;. These figures could not bo disputed,. and they showed tliat the cost of long lengths of -limn- is,- or. yras, most exorbitMit. ';Atpresent, .the millers and, ;town .merr chants ■.woro. giyeh.ia free„liand,vthe result, being that 0.8. timber was quoted, on trucks at Wellington, freight paid, 10s. per 100, and in swno 6d. per.loo, there being in thoso casra no .middleman's charges. OREGON ABSOtCTELY: NECESSARY." Builders' claimed;that,, mi acoount of. tho delay and difficulty in obtaining the native article ; for heavy work, such as roofing and joisting, it was absolutely necessary that Oregon timber should be adiinitted freo. After extensive inquiries, he belioved he was right in saying tiiat'Oregon did not take the borer.' The cost of moulding and dressed' timber, if seaeonod,. was also extremely high"/ the formor after being.cut Up and worked, often costing double and trel/ie of the onginal cost of' the timber. He Uiought that in a city like Wellington, where land was so limited and oxpensive, the middleman and town timber yuxd Bhould bo dispensed with, and builders allowed to deal direct with the country millers, . who should season: the timber near the mills, where land was cheap. Buildors. and tho general public had been prevonted from 'dealing' with the millers direct, because tho latter wero bound together to supply merchants. only, and; the merohanta threatened Reprisals against purchasers and millers" if this rule were! broken. No ,-doubt. good reasons could'bo for this state of affairs, but he submitted .that there was much; wasto of money- oh -lioodlcss cartage, handling, and yardage. Kauri had 'beoomo almost unobtainable. in Wellington. Only last week, ho went to all tho yards for 20 x l kauri, and .could get only a few pieces in one yard. ( Everywhere he • was told it was impossible to: get-it. Orders long booked had not been supplied, acd when ho got a few lengths, he had to pay 375. Gd; per 100, without cartage,-though the .list prioo in Sydney, Notwithstanding the 2s. export ''duty, was 31a. 6d. First-class J-inch T. and G. kauri lining, was listed at. Sydney, at 245.' 6d., against 28s. in Wellington; -C x 1 flooring 295. in' Sydney, and 325. hero. This showed that outsiders were getting our locally-grown timber cheaper than wo wore, and ho considered that an increased export duty should be placed on kauri. ' THE BUILDERS' DIFFICULTIES. ' | Witness also mentioned ambng' the difficulties of the builders forcing them to use imported timber that thore was .usually a short limit for the erection of \a building with a heavy penalty attached for. exceeding it, and there woro' often delays in getting local timber. Oregon timber had not greatly affected the building trade,/bccause it was not'-suitable; for outside-finishing. It took paint rather' badly. . It was not -so gOod as heart' matai'for flooring. The cause of tho' depression iii tho building trado waa'-.tho tichtneiss of' money.' -. \ To Mr. Field: Oregon was better than Ideal timber whero plastering was to be done, as it did not "buckle'-and case the plaster to crack. - ' \ To Mr. Barber: Tlie Timber Merchants' 1 , Association expected builders not to buy from its members, and imposed indirect penalties, such as loss of ditcount, if they did buy outside. : He had not attempted .to do so during tho last eighteen months. If he bought less choaply. his cus-.' tomers would,havo to pay the difference.... Mr. Jennings: Arc you aware that you oan got timber of any si7.es from Ohakune?—l daresay you can, but can you get special lengths on short notice? -• Mr. Jennings: I believe you can, in a reasonable time. To Mr. Clarko: Tliero.were, according to tho 1906 census, 5773 persons employe? in (instructing, and repairing houses'in tho IVellington district,' and this was probably three or four.times tho number employed in sawmilljng in the district. To keep up the sawmilling mdustrj' by protection would be to penalise the larger industry "to' a certain extent for the benefit of a smaller one. • "A LIBEL ON BUILDERS." Mr. Morris: Is it a custom among buiiiors to go to. a yard ; and ask for green timber because it is easier to .work?—No that's a libel on. the whole oommunity of builders He. could not buy Oregon timber as cheap as the native artdclo, but' he did not know Whether tho merchants mado. more out ■ of Oregon. • To Mr. Ell: In view of the ofiici.-vl rtatomeqt that our native timber supplies would last for only about 50 years longer, ho agreed that tho Government should put increased vigour into its realforostang plantations, 'fhe-i

planting of 0400 acres was not enough. - Ii was good policy to admit clieap tdmDW,fc* rough work, so that the; superior i mstipo timber could bo put to finer u'soa. DOTY-FREE OREGON WANTED. Mr. W. L. Thompson, buildor, Wellington, representing the Wellington Builders' aip Contractors', Association, in his evidence saii the intorests of tho builders wore the same as those of tile public generally. The primary cause of the slackness in. the timber industry was not importation of timber, but tlx» stringency of the ponoy..market;, oowbined with the high price of land. Oregon did not compebo much with local timber except fofc,, .long lengths and special sizes, and whettprompt aeEvery wm . required. '• Ororaon, is ; large eizoa at aU events, should be admitted ; duty free for tho following reaeonsj—(l) li t, could bo obtained from th<s local yards with* ; out delay and in' any length or son. (2) It was cheaper for special purposes. (3) It wat more durable when not exposed. (1) II dad not tabo the . worm. (5) ft wsg cheaper to handle. (6) It stood the changes of fanperature bettor than the looal timber,, and did not twist, and was therefore better for plastered work. Witness oonadcrea Oregon pino was stronger than. Now Zcafcmd ' timber. , V To Mr ..Field: It was. formerly tJ» custom of a certain firm of architects t» spccify piao tically'all kauri for uso in brick buildings. Tho fim now specified Oregon instead. : , "ft> Mr. Barber: Notwithstanding his od« yocacy.of duty-free Oj-econ, ho was interested , in a rimu mill, and , obtained supplies from ft. The mill belonged to the Wairarapa ' Sawmfllfiw' Association,.' hut was, not, oon« nectod with the Wellington Timber,. Mo dhants' Association. Somo trouble wn» ' threatened at. one time about this matter . and ft Mjpeared that his supplies Qkobct the Timber Merchants' Association wouLJ bo afloctcd, .but nothing camo of it. To Mr. Jennings: The memberb of tba Buildors' Association oompotod frociy against each other. - . ' " i'-;' At 5.60 p.m.,iho commission adjourned vjf tal 9 o'clock , ('iii morning.