THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 293, 4 September 1908, Page 9

THE HOUSE.

LOCAL BILLS. ' The House met at 2.30 p.m. yesterday and "went into committee on tho Opunako Harbour. Bill (Mr. Major). The ' of tho Bill, defining tho rating area, had been considerably altored in-Select Committee,,. and tho member in charge also gave notice' of further alterations. . -

Several members objected to: material alterations to. tho Bill being made in committeo of tho House after the measure had been allowed to-go through tho Select Committee. It would bo establishing a bad'precedent. . After discussion-lasting till 4.15 p.m., progress Was reported on tho Bill to enable' a conference to be held between • members whoso constituencies aro concerned. , Tho Auckland'-(Symonds Street) Cemeteries Bill was put through committee, read a third timo and passetj. ' Tho Hokitika Harbour Act, 1905, Amendment Bill .(Mr. Soddon), conferring power to raiso £25,000 for harbour improvements,'was read a second time. • The Lincoln Road Board Empowering Bill (Mi 1 . Lewis),-the Mangahua County Council Empowering Act, 1894, Amendment Bill (Mr. Colvin); the Slatamata County Bill (Mr. Greenslade); the Canterbury College,,and Agricultural' College Act, 1896,, Amendment Bill, (Mr. Ell); tho Whakatane County Act •Amendment Bill'* (Mr. Herries); and tho Auckland Harbour Board ' Loan 1 - and Empowering Bill (Mr. Kidd) were read a second time. The Houso then went into committee on tho above Bills. - Tho Hon. G. FOWLDS (Minister for Education) objected to Clause 8' of the Canterbury: College-Empowering Bill. Tho clause, which proposes to enable- an annual- allowance of £300 to be paid to the chairman of the board of governors,- was thrown out. Tho Bill was put through committee with another small amendment. • The Auckland Harbour Board Bill was reported. i The Opunako Harbour Bill was then taken, Mr. Major stating that as the result of tho conference he had. dccided to accept the, recommendation of. "tho Local Bills Committee regarding the boundaries of tho harbour district. , L ' . . • ' The Bill was reported with amendments. The Now Plymouth Harbour . Board Empowering Bill (Mr. Okey) was committed. r A clause in the Bill proposing plural voting acording to values, and which had been Struck out in select committee, caused lengthy discussion. Mr. OKEY moved to havo the plural voting resuscitated.' "Without it the Bill would bo practically killed. ' • • lilf. ELL (Christchurch) advocated, on the lines of former speeches, the oho man one vote principle; ' HTKe result was a long discussion. On a division the right of plural voto was re-conferred. ■ On tho motion to adopt the whole clause as altered a debate took place again upon the principle of plural voting. Mr. HOGG expressed sorrow and surprise at tho Government, having acted with tho Opposition in regard to the Bill. The PRIME MINISTER (Sir J. C. Ward) protested against the suggestion that the manhood and womanhood suffrage should Jie applied, to polls on loan proposals. The opposers of the Bill were trying to inflict • a grave injustice on Tnranaki settlers.; At meetings which had been held all over Tnranaki, in connection with tho Bill, tho single-voting' principle was rejected everywhere. The adult franchise did not apply anywhere in New Zealand to voting on loan proposals.- . The New Plymouth Harbour Board passed a resolution that if single voting were insisted on the Bill should bo dropped. , Other speakers continued the discussion until 10.45 p.m.. "'l' oll a division was taken on the restoration of a contingent clause deI fining the .voting qualification, which had

been' struck out by tho Local Bills Committee. The words wero reinstated by 34 votes to 23. The Bill as amended was reported. HARBOURS AND BORROWINC. On tho motion for tho third reading of tho Auckland Harbour Board Loan and Empowering Bill

Mr. G. LAURENSON (Lyttelton) rose to make somo remarks against the borrowing proposals contained in this and other Bills. Tho country, he said, was going in for a "financial drunk," and was simply mad about borrowing. Every local body, every harbour board, .overy county council, and every corporate body that could got a naino hung on to itself was proposing to. borrow money. "The country is growing mad about borrowing." In the last few days the Opunake Harbour Board had been given power to borrow £30,000; tho New Plymouth Harbour Board £105,000 (in addition to £133,000 to pay off old loans), the Hokitika Harbour Board £25,000, the Auckland Harbour Board £1,000,000, Otago Harbour Board £25,000, Tauranga Harbour Board £20,000, Westport Harbour Board £200,000, and a request would very likoly come before the House before tho end of the session from the Wellington Harbour Board for power to raise £1,000,000. Where is the Opposition? "Where is the Opposition now?" continued the member. "Where is the protest from the party of caution and prudence ? Whore is the party that protests against tho 'blind drunk' the country is going in for? I am getting sick of it!" (Laughter.) It was a caso of members sitting still and helping one another by silence to get their respective Bills passed. He was cot going to let the Bill go by without raising his voice in protest against tho position. Ho was proceeding further when informed by tho Speaker that he was getting off tho track of the debate. " Saturnalia of Borrowing." ' "I protest against this saturnalia of .borrowing," cried Mr. -Laurenson, making a fresh , stait. Some degree of check, .he- continued,' was placed upon Government'borrowing, and tho position in that respect was to somo extent different. He regretted the. Prime Minister should not havo seen it his' duty to say they were going a little too far in giving the powers tlioy wero. Very likely, by the time the House rose, they would have sanctioned loans for harbour boards totalling two and a half millions. ' Tho PRIME MINISTER said he rose becauso he did not want to have - a wrong impression conveyed.. Tho lion, gentleman, no doubt, was anticipating tho timo when two millions might be wanted for the canal to Christohiirch! (Laughter.) He was certain if they could see into tho inward recesses of the member's mind they would find it was this .that had-caused him to give utterance to the words he had. "Ho doesn't contradict mo, and he knows I am in this respect a prophet—or a, psychologist."' Mr. Laurenson: 'Bo you mean to say you are studying up as . a thought reader? (Laughter.) Remarks by the Premier.

Tho Prime 1 Minister: As a Laurenson reader, perhaps. (Laughter.) He went on to say that none of the harbours in this country wero under the direct control of the Government. The people had control of :them. The growth of trado-had necessitated some' of these boards oxtending their facilities, and Auckland was only ono of the many. But Auckland proposed that the expenditure of £1,000,000 be extended over ten years. Ho referred to tho sound position of these boards, and their ability to obtain sufficient money to pay interest on sinking funds. He would, however, prefer to seo ■some of the todies going in for less sums. (Hear, hear.) He referred to tho incessant demand for requirements and facilities all over the country. Tho question arose: Would it be better for tho country,' and safer for tho investor too, for tho .Government to' own, tho whole of the harbours and provido accordingly. Tho bodies wero incurring big responsibilities, but they wero tho best judges of what they required. Hs had looked into the positions of tlio boards, and not ono of thoso before tho Houso but was in a position to provide more than sufficient for interest on sinking fund, and at the same time offer a good investment for •those taking up debentures.' It was because ho had a. duty to do in pointing out theso things that'he rose to speak. There should bo some guidance for likely investors. Ho (lid not think the lion, member had been fair in giving the amounts of tho loans in sequence as lie had dona without explanations, becauso the impression created amongst those unaware of the real position might affect the borrowing of some of the local bodies, • who would 1 require to go'outside the Dominion. Ho pointed out that tho Lyttelton Harbour Board had borrowed a largo sum recently, and their operations had been successful. Could not the samo success attend tho progressive proposals of tho harbour boards under review? Ho admired tho outspoken remarks of Mr. Laurenson; Ho would like to see a diminution of the local and public body gxpenditure, but ho pointed out that so long as the people, with a full knowledge of their responsibilities, called for an extension of their trade facilities, and wero making safe and. sound provisions for tho future, there was no cause to find fault with them ' •

Leader of the Opposition. ' Mr. MASSEY spoko bccause his name had been mentioned. The member for Lyttolton had been present during every stage of tho discussion in committee on tho Bills, and had not uttered one protest. Now they were on the third readings, and when it was certain the. Bills wbro going through he got up and declaimed against. these Bills with dramatic fervour. 110 (Mr. Massoy) agreed tlfat the Dominion was becoming too dependent, on borrowed money. But ho regrottcd tho borrowings of tho Govornment more than of the local bodies; The Auckland proposal came from one of the most progressive bodies in tho Dominion, and thy harbour equipments there wore being brought up-to-date. Mr. Massoy twitted the member with denying "to other places what he'had been careful to procure a little timo sinco for his own harbour., . ! Mr. Laurenson said he had not been in tho House' at' the timo the Auckland Harbour Board Bill was in committee. Other Spoeolies. Mr. J. C. THOMSON (Wallace) agreed with several of tho expressions of Mr. Laurenson. A good deal of the raising of the current rates of interest was due to the borrowings of local bodies. ' Mr. A. R. BARCLAY (Dunedin North) defended the borrowing of local bodies. Their loans had been for useful and remunerative works. Such had been the case in connection with the Dunedin Harbour. Mr., T. MACKENZIE (Waikouaiti) declared that a mistake had been made in trying to create a port at Dunedin, instead of concentrating expenditure on' tho development of Port Chalmers. ■ ' Mr. F. E. BAUME (Auckland West) defended the borrowing of Auckland Harbour. With tho increased revenue, the board would bo perfectly able to meet- all tho liabilities. It would have been bettor if Mr. Laurenson, as chairman of the Lyttolton Harbour Board, had refrained from attempting to interfere with tho projects of the Auckland Harbour Board. / Mr. ICIDD, replying, said he took it kindly of Mr. Laurenson to speak as he had so soon after a visit to Auckland, during which lie had expressed admiration of the work of local bodies, especially in connection with shipping. By borrowing a million, instead of a smallor slim, they couldget better terms on tho English market, and would also avoid interfering with the local market by raising a comparatively small loan. Included in tho work to be done out of the loan was tho reclamation of 100 acres of land, which would bring in an enormous revenue. Tho •shipping'had increased to such an extent, that tho revenuo of the board had reached £100,000 a year. Members might rest 'assured that the money would be well spent. Mr. Laurenson explained that 1m had not intended.to cast any reflection on the Aucl> land Harbour Board. He considered that, its administration was splendid, and that it. was doing magnificent work. Ho had merely taken tho opportunity of'protesting against tho saturnalia of borrowing that seomod to have struck the harbour boards of tho Dominion. _ . ' Tho Bill was read a third timo and passed.

FINAL STAGES. The local Bills, which had passed through committee as above, woro read a third lime and passed. The Civil Service Amendment Bill, the Pawnbrokers' Charges Bill, and the Taupo No. 2 Block Bill were put through their filial stages. COUNCIL'S AMENDMENTS AGREED TO. The amendments made by the Legislative Council in the Oamaru Reserves Bill, tho Incorporated Societies Bill, and tho Coroners Amendment Bill woro agreed to. The Houso rose at 12.20 a.m.