TAKING THE OATH

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 251, 16 July 1908, Page 7

TAKING THE OATH

RECENT INCIDENT IN DISCUSSION IN PARLIAMENT. OFFICIAL ASSIGNEE EXPLAINS. In the House of Representatives yesterday afternoon, the' Hon. J. A. M'Gowan (Minister for Justice) referred to Mr. Baumo's reference on July 8 to tho treatment of Mr. Maurice Ziraan, by the Wellington Official Assignee (Mr. A. Simpson), in regard 'to tho method of taking tho oath. He submitted a statement from the Official Assignee, who explained that, at the meeting in question, he had occasion to examino tho bankrupt (Mr. Maurice Ziman), and when administering tho oath, the bankrupt had put his bat on. "I informed him that he would have to take his hat off, when he said, in an off-hand way, that this was his usual way of taking the oath, but never said a word about being a member of tho Hebrew persuasion. He took off his hat promptly, and I administered the oath in the usual way. Sad he, or his solicitor, explained to me that ho was of tho Hebrew persuasion, and wished to bo sworn according to. their customs, I would certainly have conceded to the request at once, and administered tho Hebrew oath aa closely as it could be done, without tho five books :of Job, as laid down by the law of evidence. I was not a ware that tho bankrupt was of the Hebrew per- ■ suasion, and did not put the question of creed . to him, as it has not been tho custom hitherto, to ask debtors such a question in this office.", He regretted having made the omission, but ho had not tho slightest intention of casting any slur on tho Hebrow customs. He would tako tho opportunity at the next meeting of creditors to point out his error, to the bankrupt, and explain that his action .in regard .to the administering of the oath was not'intentional. _ Tho Minister moved that the explanation lie upon the. table. "THE FIVE BOOKS OF JOB." Mr. Laurenson (Lyttelton) expressed dis« satisfaction with the answer of Mr. Simpson. First and foremost, said Mr. Laurenson; he did' not know what the gentleman's literary attainments were, but he thought they,must bo of a limited description, w.hen he spoke of the "five books of Job." (Laughter.) Ha (Mr. Laurenson) had heard of the live books of Moses, but had not yet the five books of Job. Another feature of tho explanation was tho divergence'of the Official Assignee from the point at issue. The House had _to deal with this point: Did tho • public officer refuse- to allow an in- ~ dividual' who came before him to tako tho oath in the manner most binding on his conscience P' If ho to - do so'ho was in error, and had committed an If, on tho other hand, ho did not do so—and his explanation was in' tho direction of showing that he erred in ignoranco—he was not so much in error. At all events, ho (Mr. Laurenson). had heard certain rumours about the individual in ques- . tion and his manner and | bearing to tho general public who came in contact with him, and ho wanted to say, as a representative of tho people, that if there was on'e"thing they should insist upon it was tho. absolute necessity of the public servants, next to honesty, showing courtesy" to| tho public. Thero wero many complaints about other indivi-, duals as well.* Although, as a rule the public servants of tho country were distinguished for their courtesy, there were many complaints of lack of courtesy in. certain quarters. The individual'in question seemed to havo a reputation in that direction, and on this occasion he seemed to have acted in a very brusquo manner to a person who camo before him. From what had been brought before lion, members, and from the statements in the' paper—which were very clcar and definite—tho person in question appeared to havo acted in anything but a courteous manner. Mr. Laurenson then read tho paragraph -in The Dojiin'ion of July 8 (upon which I 'tho matter had first been raised in. the House). Ho was rather inclined to take the; report, as a correct account of ; what •transpired rather than the .official's statement. A DIFFICULT POSITION TO FILL. • Mr, Hardy (Selwyn): "I have known; tho gentleman referred to for nearly 40 years, and during that time lie has filled official positions in tho National Bank and other positions, and has filled them well.'-' Mr. Simpson, ho proceeded, had an exceptionally difficult position to fill now. Hs was taking the place of a gentleman who was .very highly respected.. Of late some shady bankruptcies had taken place in Wellington, and Mr. Simpson as tho representative of tho people, and as one who was appointed to protect the trading community pra bably intended to do his duty. He, Me. Hardy, had great respect for other people's feelings,, and ho did not believe Mr. Sinipson had dono what was suggested with a full knowledge of tho facts'. Ho felt ho'could not let the occasion go by without'saying what ho knew: of Mr. Simpson personally. ' ■ Mr. Poole (Auckland) endorsed many of tho remarks of Mr. Laurenson. Ho know tha tempers of were often tried. He was glad to say that discourtesy from public officials was tho exception to the rule. Mr. R. M'Kenzie (Motuoka) said ho had known Mr. Simpson for many years, and. could eudorse what Mr. Hardy had said about him. . Tho explanation of Mr. Simpson seomed to be perfectly adequate, and should be accepted. Mr. Calvin (Buller) was understood to speak similar words, though th' 6 majority of his remarks were inaudible to tho Press. REMARKS BY MR. BAUME.- ' Mr. Baume (Auckland). said it was ho, who ' had "brought tho matter. 1 up, and ho would like to say a word. Ho believed the report in The Dominion to be correct. At all events ho knew of no reason why it should bo incorrect. In that account' it was stated that the bankrupt protested that ho was a Jew, and that it was usual for him to have tho head, covered when taking the oath. "You can't do it hero," replied tho Assignee. Ho (Mr. Baume) cast no' reflection' on Mr. Simpson personally, or on his ■ character. ' The fact, however, that ho possessed, a good character did not say that lio possessed the tact and. courtesy so necessary to the posi« tion. Ho had considered it his duty to tha mombers of bis own and other religions to bring the matter up. He would, "bo only too glad if ho could believe the explanation submitted by Mr. Simpson to bo a straight out explanation. 110 regretted it did noi seem to him candid or. satisfactory.-' Ho (.Mr. Simpson) said no indication was given ■ that tho man was a Jew. But. there was no doubt that the peoj»lo from whom ho (Mr. Baume) sprang carricd their nationality in their faco. (Laughter.) Ho was not'disposed to believe that Mr. Ziman was such an oxcoption to tho rulo. Tho method of tha Jewish' oath was also well known. THE MINISTER'S REPLY. The Hon. J. M'Gowan, in replying, supv I jested that Mr. Bauuio was hyper-sensitivo in tho matter, and ho road tho Assignee's letter to show that it was an explanation of the, position. Mr. Simpson's appointment had mot with tho approbation of the groat majority of tho business peoplo in> Wellineton. - . v I Mr. Fisher: Not by any means.The Minister: One of tho largest petitions •that have been sent in was for his appointment. Mr. Fisher: I could get you a larger pcti< tion the other way. The Minister added that the Official Assignee was a very difficult man to got round and 'this, ho pointed out, was a desirable quality. Tho explanation was laid upon tho table.