THE COUNCIL.

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 246, 10 July 1908, Page 9

THE COUNCIL.

; FREE-PLACE SCHOLARS. The Legislative Council sat for its full two aours and a! half "yesterday afternoon. The tirst.subject raised/ after formal. business, a matter of local interest.' ■ The Hon.. J. E.JENKINSON (Wellington) asked the .'Attorney-General whether; -in view of the statement , made.' " by : the Board of . Governors 'of- Wellington College that no ■ provision' exists for free-place' scholars at the Wellington Girls' College, the Government wilj take. steps to. rectify so important an omission?,^. -Air. Jenkinson said that ;.tho above was. formerly the case ; at tho 'Boys'. College,'and the existing provision' there had been greatly, valued. Many, girls were prevented from -continuing their education by. -the .want. of. such'facilities. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL, (Hon. Dr. Findlay); said-/the question * interested. him both as ;a . member of ' the Government and a member of/the Wellington College .Board of. Governors: ■ Tho matter of providing ad;' ditional accommodation for tho purpose indi-' catod was under consideration, and in tho meantime temporary provision for the. secondary' education of, girls was being retailed at the •Newtowni ; and Wellington . Terrace i Schools. . He. had eveny sympathy with Mr. Jenkinson's desiro. _ : . LAND AND BUILDINGS IN WEL. : LINCTON. The Hon. S. THORNE GEORGE gave iotice\to m6ve-_ ; fbr. a; retnrn showing details »f all the land in the fcity of Wellington and . the buildings'thereon.'V/ ! PARLIAMENT BUILDINCS. . The, _ATTORNEY-GENER'AL gave : notice of motionvto. set -up • a', committee -to confer with a'.similar committee of the other/House, on, the question of .rebuilding Parliament House; ; the committee to .consist' of the Speaker and the Hon: Thompson, :Carncross, Sinclair,' Gilmer, Paul, Sir M. O'Rorkej Feldwick, Marshall, and the mover. • ■< MEIKLE ACQUITTAL BILL. The. Meikle Acquittal; Bill was received from the Lower House and read a first time. . The .second reading was pet down for Tuesday, next. . ' . . . . ' ADDRESS-IN-REPLY. MR. JONES AND MR. BARR ON LABOUR. The continuation of'tho Address-in-Reply iebato was again devoted almost exclusively to the industrial arbitration question. Tho Hoh.'..GEORGE .JONES (Otago); deslared -that' the workers in their recent .-... actions had ..asked for' the right thing, But in the' fyrbng way,' and' at the wrong. time. Thero was no need for anything violent or revolutionary in 'this country. Tho workers had had a great share in placing the Act on the Statute Book, and it was at first

opposed by the employers. Therefore, aud considering also the benefits it had' secured for tho 'workers, they acted most.unbe-. comingly in 'not showing it more respect. Much' had been said .against compulsion, but lie asked whether a man who seriously considered himself bound by a moral obligation would object to the possibility of conpuisicn. ; ... . ... The Atto'rnoyTGeneral (Hon. Dri Findlay) : Hear, hear. A building contractor, for instance, ■said Mr. Jones, , was bound by moral obligation, and the I compulsion at tho back.,of it did not tempt him to violate that moral obligation.: -There had,'however,: been so many violations of tho. Act of lato that ono had begun to think it was not worth tho paper it was written on. It should be romembered that tho omployprs, as well as the workers, sacrificed some liberty by coming under the Act. • - Trades Council Ingratitude. ; "The Trades Council, in its manifesto, ridiculed tho contention that' the Arbitration Act had done-away with sweating. The Arbitration Act and the Factories Act liad . actually prevented. sweating ,ih New Instead of' being grateful, tho Trades Council tried to show that • wages would have been higher without the Act. i They ovei' looked the fact that at " the beginning of ■the period reviewed in the manifesto farm-, ing was in a very depressed .-condition,: but its splendid' revival enabled 'the farmers to pay: much/hotter wages. , ' In other trades, competitionwith, older countries prevented any great.increase 4 -of ~ wages, and, though ho. approved of /protection, he that ;it could'not be indefinitely increased. Ho admitted Mr.' Rigg's contention thattho workers were becoming a great political factor, but .there .'were other : great political factors. - The i small farmers L had helped .them in the past,' and they would .always have public sympathy .as long is their aejihands Wore reasonable. ■! Ho would point out,' howover, that' combinations ..of labour had produced such men as Harry. Orchard, and such events as the strife and bloodshed that, had in connection with labour troubles in America.

Tho President of., tho Court., . . . Referring to. Mr. Rigg's remarks-on Judges of ; the' Arbitration Court; Mr. Jones said •that the present Judge had not failed any mora than his predecessors. ■' The Attorney-General: Hear, hear.-. Mr. Jones,, continuing, /said, Judge Sim had had !■ the-hardest row to hoe, and had done very well. He : (Mr. ■ Jones) .was convinced that. arbitration , without compulsion would be-futile. He approved of' Mr. vßigg's suggestion' that' unions should give a sub : stantial .guarantee on becoming parties to an award. . He. would'go further ana make every union in the country give such a guarantee. Mr. Thorno George: What, sort of a guarantee?- . Mr.Jones: A • fidelity 'guaranteed They could; deposit a sum of money. ' . ..-.Mr.'. George: Money? Where-would -they get it? '. -. ~ - Mr. Jones replied that'he was not there to" draft a. clause.' Legal men could tell; then) how'a bond could be drawn to meet the .purpose.- Such a provision would have pr&vented the Blackball strike. In this'connection lie •had been almost ashamed to be a New .Zealander, when he saw how the Blackball miners woro. harassed by the authorities, to make them pay the'fines. _ Hon; J: T. Paul: Some' unions could not find the money for- ; a bond.' -' 1:. y;

Mr. Jones: The' wind will be temperedOto the shorn lamb. . To meet tho case of : poor unions he. would_, cause all the unions, in:.the country to be . jointly, responsible for carrying ..out agreements. : v - ". ■ The Bakers' Strike. . '.. Dealing .next with 'the. Wellington Bakers' strike, Mr. Jones declared that the pay -of. the'men was' insufficient -for men- working .such long .hours, at night and in ; 'an unhealthy trade. Nevertheless, having agreed to thfi award, they should havei!idhered'-t-o it. ' f&" Hon. J. E. Jenkinson:,They did not agffe to it. It was an award of ,the Court. ; {Tbe v Attorney-General:' It.was a majority : uward.: The";workers' representative on theCourt agreed'to it, and the Employers' repre-' sentative did not.- - ; . Mr. Jones :. That, makes''my point - the stronger...'".:' . Statutory Preference on Both SWas. ■After 'quoting,the typographiyal award ''is* an iustanco of inequality between different centres, ; which vet aid hot prevent tho employers from faithfully observing.its provisions, Mr. Jones proceeded ■; to advocate .statutory prefer,ence to unionists. 'This should be reciprocal, applying both to employers'. unions and workers': unions, and if the . guarantee proposal were enacted, such preference could well be granted. , He was sorry there, was no reference to Socialism , in the Governor's •Speech. He was pleased to note -that : the Government seemed to' Mr. Massey an'angel of light, which he would embrace if lie could, as against that, awful bugbear: of Socialism. Mr. Massey evidently regarded the. Government as a safe refuge in time of trouble. (Applause.) ;;, A LABOUR MEMBER'S SPEECH.' The Hon. J. BARR (Canterbury) said the Govornment was doing as much as any: Government could do for the working .classes All the Labour members'of , tho Council wereSocialists, and he thought every man in the country was imbued with. Socialism. He was against revolutionary Socialism, however, for they must , go step by stop.' : .- The education system was..of, special'.interest 'to the ' workers', and he'hoped the Government would go beyond increasing teachers'-salaries and would make them independent qf fluctuations in; attendance, abolish cramming, and facilitate the increase of' school accommodation. ' He advocated the cottage-homo system for children of the State, instead of boarding out. People wore making a trade' of the thing, and.that was hot the way to have • justice, done to: the children. , He ques-. tioned whether "the cottage home system ■ would bo' more expensive than the '■ present arrangements. Whatever some ; busybodies might say,'the great workers' unions of the Dominion wero strongly in favour of arbitration, and' any l danger of the repeal of the Act would oauso thorn to make a very im-pressive-protest. • Tho Attorney-General and other Councillors: Hear, hear. , Mr. Barr declared ■ that to one who, like himself, had been through strikes in the' Old Country, the strikos that had occurred here hardly seemed strikes at all, but mere trifles or Eutterings of the candle. . ; \ The Attorn'eyrGenorar and others: Hear, hear. ' Mr. Barr asserted that the. .Wellington bakers ought not to have struck. Ihey were led by an irresponsible man, who, ho thought, , at one time would have had more sense. (Laughter and applause.)- RevorV ing to tho general question. Mr. Barr said ltliad been a mistake on both sides to.ignore the Conciliation Boards,-but the workors had found conferences ,with employers futilo. He affirmed that tho omployers, as- indicated by speeches of Mr.' Pryor and Mr. Scott at conferences of the Employers' Federation, really did not want tho Act, and would like to have it repealed. The workors should realise that. (Hear, hear.) Another cause of dissatisfaction was- that many employers, perhaps most of the employers iri New Zealand, wore incompetent, and ought to become wageearners again. , • ■ . Wellington Bakers Again. Dealing with the "needs wage," Mr. Barr gave figures which he said had been obtained from ' housewives ' • in Christchurch showing' that a bare living wage for a man and wife'and three childron would bo £2 Bs. Gd. The Attorney-General: That's not my conception of a needs wage. Yet (continued Mr. Barr) pcoplo blamed the Wellington bakers, with more expensivo conditions' of living, for not being satisfied with £2-Bs. a week. The Attorney-General: They're not all married men with families. ' Mr. Barr (ironically): I like that interjection! The single man should bo able to save with a view to marrying. Tho Attorney-General: Hear, hear. Mr. Barr, proceeding, objected to' tho idea of a wago based on needs, and said the workers should insist oh a propor minimum wage. Against Exertion Wages. Mr. Barr further said he was opposed also to the principle of'the exertion wape. It

should be sufficient for the employer to pay more than the minimum wage to the best men. Even if tho workers would consent to an exertion wage, he would bo against it. The State should see; that men; were not injured by overwork and over-pressure. Tho oxortion wage would lead to scamping work, as employers generally .did not care about good work. There wero exceptions, even in Wellington, the most jerry-built city ho had over struck. (Laughter.) His own observations as a stonemason, when ho was a "runner" or a "bell-horse," i.e., a fast man to set the pace for the rest, convinced him that the men deteriorated under the strain. The. Attorney-General: But it hasn't boon done under an Act. . Mr. Barr: No, and 1 don't want it to be. The exertion wage .was evidently proposed as a sop to the employers. It' would simply be a speeding-up wago. Where employers wero honest, they realised that it paid them to give good wages. He approved of legislating to prevent strikes, but he would not havo. tho oxortion- wage at aiiy price. The Attorney-Genorallt's .. purely optional.

; Mr. Barr: Yes;, but the workers would bo too ready to. consent to it without considering' how jiKey , ; woiild .ultimately suffor. In conclusion, Mr. ,Barr. expressed a hope that the Council would do valuablo work oh this and other questions during the" session. (Applause.) '■ Tho Hon. J. MARSHALL moved - the 1 - adjournment, and the Council, at 4.'50 p.m., rose until 2.30 p.m. to-day.