DOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 47, 19 November 1907, Page 6

DOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

LOCAL BILLS. The House met at 10 a.m. yesterday to deal with local Bills. The amendments made in'the Legislative Council t9 the Petono Wator Supply Conservation Bill (Mr. Wilford) and tho Levin Borough Reserves Vesting and Empowering Bill, (Mr., Field) wore agreed to and the Bills Were-." passed.' ( ... |, SECOND READINC. Tho following Bills wero read a second time without discussion: —Waipawa Borough Bill (constituting the Town District of Waipawa a Borough), tho Waipawa County Bill (Air. Hall), the Greymouth Harbour Board Loan Bill (Hon. Mr. Guinness), Auckland Harbour Board Birkenhead Borough Empowering Bill (Mr. Massoy, for Mr. Alison), Maniatoto Hospital and Charitable Aid •Bill (Mr. Macplierson), Wairata Harbour Board Bill (Hon. C. H., Mills),■ Hastings Resorves Recreation Reservo Bill (Mr. Dillon), Dunedin District Drainago and Sewerage Act 1900 Amendment, Bill (Hon. J. A. Millar), Gisborne Harbour Board Enabling Bill (Hon.'J. Carroll), Makara County Bill : (porposing to constitute the Makara Riding and a portion of the Porirua Ridirig of the Hritt County a separate county), and the Hutt Park Bill (Mr. Wilford). Bills Opposed. ■When, the Murchison County Bill was called: on, Mr. Iteidj on behalf, of the/Local Bills Committee,' said that large: petitions had been received against tho Bill, which proposed to constitute tho Hampdon Riding of tho Inangahua County a separata county. Ho also spoke against an: increasing'tendency to create a multiplicity of: counties for the increased subsidy given. Where road boards wero amalgamated the creation of counties was desirablo, bnt tho present was' not a case of that kind. There were too many local bodies in' the Dominion. Mr. Colvin spoke against the Bill, and Mr. R. .M'Kenjiie explained, that-the situa-. tion of the proposed county was such that its separation from the local body was desirable. The Bill was read a ,r second time on a division. " The Waimat?',North County Act, 1907 (Mr. Major),, proposing to change the Waimato Road Board into a county, was objected to by Mr. Symes, but was read a Becond time on a division. Tho Opunako Harbour Bill (Mr.- Major), proposing to set up a separate Harbour Board district, was opposed by Mr. Okey (Taranaki), who said tnat this Bill had not yet been referred to the Nov Plymouth Harbour Board, whose rating area would bo affected. Tho Bill was read a second time by 33 to 13 - votes. ■ i Tho Invercargill Public Offices Site Act Amendment Bill was read a second time pro forma, and then, on tho motion of tho Premier, -.was deferred. IN COMMITTEE. In Committeo on the Murchison County Bill, the Hon. A. R. Guinness and, Mr. Colvin opposed the Bill, tho former on the ground of tho undesirability of multiplicity of local bodies.' and because only a small proportion of tno inhabitants of the county had wanted tho chango. v A West Coast Sirocco. Mr. R. M'Kcnzio supported tho Bill, and tho debate was proceeding at considerable Jength: Mr. Wilford (who had a Bill on the Order Paper) asked that non-contentious Bills liko tho present ono be left over till tho last to allow others that required no debato to go through. At noon Mr. Hogg moved to report progress cm the Bill, describing tho proceedings' as a " West Coast Sirocco. A heated passage occnrrod between Mr. Wilford and Mr. M'Kenzie, which ended by Mr. Wilford saying: "Yon are not Chairman of these proceedings, and I will say what I like." (Mr. Aitkon temporarily occupied tho chair.) Mr'. Hogg's motion to report progress on tho Bill wsb carried by 28 to 20. When tho hour for the luncheon adjournment, 1 p.m., arrived, all the Bills above enumerated as having passed their second reading had completed their Committee Btagcs, with tho exception of tho Waimnte North County Bills and tho Opunako Harbour Bill, and tho Murchison County Bill, upon which progress had been reported. After Mr. Massoy had protested against sitting longer, Mr. M'Kcnzio left the chair with the intention of resuming at 2.30 o'clock. Some Other Day. ' On tho House resuming, tho Premier asked that tho orders of the day be proceeded with]

tho local Bills could bo completed some other morning this week. A motion to report progress on tho two unfinished Bills was carried by 31 votes, to 21.

The various Bills that had completed their Committee stages wero thon read a third timo and passod.

CAMINC AND LOTTERIES BILL.

AN INTERESTING ' DISCUSSION. The interrupted debato on tho report Of the Select Committee regarding the amendment to tho Gaming and Lotterios Bill was then taken.

Mr. Herries again voiced his complaints that Messrs. Poland, Davoy, and himself had not been notified that 1 tho Bill was likoly. to go through tho Committee. They had expectod that only evidence would bo 1 taken. Ho (Mr. Herri-is) was'a member of the Racing Conforon;o, and was able'to express to a great extent the feeling of tho racing people. Ho had been attending a meoting of the Native Lands Committee at the time. The object of tho "elect Committee's work was to avoid, if pj&siblo, acrimonious discussion on a measure, and that opportunity had been lost in this case. They, as representatives of the Racing Clubs, had not been treated as they should. The Premier:, By whom? . Mr. Herriis: I don't know; Tho Premier: Because you were not able to do your own duty you blame other-people. Mr. Herries:' Tho right' hon. gentleman would not havo said that had ho known that I was helping on the country at the timo in another way. (Hear, hear.) After looking over tho amendments, he was pleased ho could not bo accused of being responsible for them. Take 'ho clauso prohibiting the publication of certain totalisator information in the newspapers,. yet bookmakers' odds could bo printed. It seemed tho height of foolishness. There was nothing in tho Bill to prevent "starting ' prices Deing announced, and yet dividends could not bo printed. Ho and his colleagues would have dono their best to assist in overcoming the: evils connected with racing. No Undue Haste. Sir Joseph Ward denied that there had been undue haste in rushing tho Bill through the Committee. In any case, Mr. Hemes would have his chanco when tho House went into Committee. In reply to an interjection, ho declared he intended to do his best to get tho Bill through this session. Legislation to overcome evils connected with gambling was urgently needed. If desiic-l; he was prepared to lot the' Bill go back to the Select Committeo. Ho did not want it thrown up at him from outsido that.it was rushed through. The Bill could then be reported anew and put through tho Houso. They had only to look at what had occurred in tho South—where mon, trespassing on tho "outside" of a racecourse, were imprisoned, and thoso "inside" allowed to go free —te see the necessity for legisla-. tion that would deal with such matters, and with the whole question generally -in a way . that would be . for the benefit of the Dominion. (Hear,', hear.) ,

breach of- Privilege Alleged. Mr. A. L. D. Fraser here referred, to tho publishing of the report of this Select Committee by the rr.v spapors beforo certain formalities had. Sott completed. Ho . asked if a; breach of privilege had not been committed. Proceeding, ho expressed pleasure at the Premier's reforeneo to the action of tho magistrate at Christchurch in sentencing the bookmajjrs to prison. The Premier said ho had made no roferenco to tho mcf if.trate. Mr. Fraser withdraw his remark. Ho would have ;.nnibthing to say later on about tho matter. Mr. Massey having raised a point of order, tho Speakor ruled that the breach \ of privilege motion could not be taken at that stago. On a motion by the Premier to refer the report back to the Select. Committee, Mr. F. Lawry supported Mr. Hemes, and said that in all his twonty years' experience he had nover known a case where a Bill was dealt with ,on tho same day that evidence was taken on it. It was ungenerous of the Premier to say Mr. Herrics should have been there when he had important public business to attend to. (The Premier: What about tho rest of us?) He referred further to the committeo proceedings, and said the Bill was rushed through witn a haste that was injudicious and unprecedented. Other Opinions. Mr. T. Mackenzie was against sonding tho Bill back. The fact was that, those who were' in a minority wero complaining. Mr. Davoy, though disappointed at not having'been present at the committee,'did not blamo anyone. Ho had been given to understand only evidence would be taken. Mr. Massoy said what had happened was simply a recurrence of the past. Important measures were introduced lato in tho session, and they had the Native Land Bill, the industrial and Conciliation Bill, and the Betting Bill all before Select Committees at the same time. In consequence, committees were working at high pressure. It was impossible for members to attend all. He was as anxious as tho Premior to minimise gambling, but there was a clause in the Bill whicii would'not have that, effect—quite the reverse. Mr. Poland said'he had, been led to understand that only ovidence would bo taken on. the morning the Bill was put through', lie considered tho Bill! incomplete; and it) should be sent back to the committee. There should bo less racing, for instance, than at present, and the number, of days should' be reduced in both the summer, and winter. Mr. Major • considered' the Bill should not bo dealt with this session. He. referred' to tho Christchurch episode as a. on law, and there were other aspects of racing that required to bo dealt with before thi Bill was passed. He had received many Icttors on the question, and the country was intensely interested over the question. He hoped the Premier would hold the Bill back till next session. ' ' ' The Premier:. I propose to put it through. Mr. Major Then Parliament will have to sit many days longer. After further remarks by members, Mr. Rutherford said that at tho Christchurch races thirty, or forty bookmakers were crying the "odds in a.raucous voice in thc.peoplo's fiaddock, and though he saw one or two cading bookmakers in the "inside" enclosure he did not observe them laying tlie odds. Ho went 011 to say that there was a lot of maudlin sympathy with these men. Some of them, ho believed, had been in gaol before, though ho would not say all were bad. Hysterical Legislation. Mr. A. L. D. Fraser spoke strongly of the Christchurch magistrate in regard to v tho remarks lie had made in sentencing the bookmakers. He also denounced tho Bill as a "bastard production," unworthy of any Parliament. He sought to show that bookmakers were not as bad as they, wore painted in many respects. He said that if it was life or death for the totalisator ho would vote for the abolition to show his abhorrenco of tho sentence inflicted on tho Christchurch bookmakers. Who, he asked, was responsible for the Bill ? Ho did not believe it had originated with auy member of the Cabinet. Ihey had seen black-coated individuals by the hundred in tho lobby, and he declared the Premier's hand had been forced. It was the outcome of hysterical agitation. Ho criticisod tho Bill as condemning tho totalisator 011 the one hand and tho bookmakers on tho other. It should bo regarded with the gravest suspicion. He did not think the Ministry had soon tho Bill before it appoared in print. Ho hoped tho Bill would novor come before Parliament again. No Hysteria. ■ Mr. Aitkon said Mr. Eraser had suggested that a deputation which had waited on tho Promior, because they wero not frequenters of raeocourses, had 110 right to interfere in the matter. Mr. Fraser had wished to imply that the only capable ones were those 1 who were ongaged in sport. There was a groat deal more than sport in this question, and tho Bill did not yet satisfy the deputation, nor did it go in the direction, in many ways, desired by tho deputation. The menibors of that deputation from their position in the community and their experience had come to see some of the results of tho gambling. They were not hysterical, nor had they lost thoir heads. This mattor was entering into the homos, and was acting very detrimentally to the young;, The deputation I would have been laoking 111 thoir duty had

tlioy kopt away. He repeated that the Dill would not meet tho requirements of tho community, nor would tlioy bo satisfied until tho totalisator and the bookmaker were both abolished.

J\lr. Wilford, as Chairman of tho Select Committee, regretted the timo spent over tho present discussion, which was not a second reading debate. Ho hoped the Premier would not press his amendment. He regretted the mombors who were away had not been prcsont at tho Committee meeting. To refer the Bill back to the Select Committee would be to kill it; with the evidence to bo taken it would never reappear. He would regret this very much ,because some good could be done with it. Ho intended to propose amendments in Committee, and one was to allow any convicted person under it to bo dealt with by a jury. He wanted also to see' tote and street betting prohibited. Bill to Co On. The Premier asked leave to withdraw his amendment. He had been led to understand that mombors felt thero had been unfair treatment, but since hearing the debate ho would ask to withdraw his motion. The breach of privilege raised by Mr. A. L. -D. Fraser was declared by the Speaker to bo groundless, the information having been laid before the House, and was therefore public property. The report of tho Committee was then laid on the table.

PUBLIC TRUST OFFICE. The amondmcnts made in tho Public Trust Office Amendment Bill were agreed to: FACTORIES ACT AMENDMENT. Tho Minister moved that the amendments ;made by the Council in the Factories Act Amendment Dill be not agreed to. One amendment was the striking out of the provision to clause 9 (relating to tho fixing of the weekly half-holiday for combined shops and factories), "that this section shall only apply where tho number of persons employed , in the shops are greater in number than those employed in the factory." The population! of the town to which_tnis could apply was reduced from 8000 to 5000. The Minister proposed that managers be appointed to confer with managers from tho Upper House. Mr. W. Fraser moved that the amondment regarding the striking out of tho proviso bo agreed to. —Lost by thirty-five to twenty. The Minister's motion was carried. PUBLIC SERVICE SUPERANNUATION. In moving the second reading of the Public Service Superannuation Bill the Premier Baid that provision had to be made for some 6000 employees. During the years 1859-60, and. 1906-7J he said, the amounts paid in gratuities reached £108,205; compensation paid amounted to £250,082, making a total of £338,297; and during the same time the civil service pensions reached £723,128. During the years mentioned a total of £1,100,000. was paid for compensation, gratuities, and pensions. Last year tho gratuities paid to those who left the service were £8000, while tho compensation for the same period was £8000. 'The amount pa|d in pensions under the Civil Service Act amounted to £26,000, so that between tho threo a total of £42,000 was paid by the country last year. The pensions that were being' paid would, under the Bill, disappear in thirty ypars, and that from tho When, therefore, basing calculations, it had to bo remembered that pensions would disappear in thirty years and that from the coming into operation of the Act the compensation would also disappear. Tho proposal under the Bill was to give a stated contribution instead ( of supplying a guarantee for any deficiency. This was whero tho scheme differed from the Education and Railway schemes. The Premier paid a tribute to the work and ability of tho Actuary, Mr. Fox, and he explained that any delay that may have occurred was not due to him. Manawatu Railway Employees. Proceeding,, the Premier said he intended to subniit an amendment in Committee to enable the Manawatii Railway employees to come in with the purchase of the line. He proposed that the company should pay £5000, either at the' rate of a thousand a year or in a lump sum, and after medical examination the men could come in on tho same basis as those in the Government servico. Tho Premier was hero, handed a letter by Mr; Field, which, after reading, ho said removed any doubt as to the payment of the £5000. Teachers and others. Continuing, the ■ Premier said he proposed to give teachers an opportunity ofcoming under this scheme. He also had found that old Provincial Govornment servants, who were in other branches, of tho service, also were to reap the benefit of this increase.. . (Hear, hear.) The clerical staff of the Defence Department (a namo that would not exist under the new system of defence) was, also included. Provision was also made for widows' and' children. After explaining the provisions of the Bill atlehgth, the Premier moVed the second reading. The Actuary. ' !■ Mr. Massey remarked that the • work in connection with the present scheme spoke volumes for the ability and industry of the Actuary, Mr. Fox. lie was pleased to note that male employees were not to bo. retired at sixty years of age. As to a universal scheme, lie strongly supported it. He agreed witli trio proposal regarding the Manawatu Railway employees, and he would like also to ask tho, Premier if he had approached the company as to the purchase of the line. The proposed Bill, he concluded, would have his warm support-. ■ The Premier Replies. • \ The Premier said , the. Manawatu Company had not so far been served with a. notice, but/this .would be done in due course. He was in favour of a universal superannuation scheme, and would give the subject as much attention as possible in the future. The,Bill was read a second timo. \ PACKET LICENSES. Iu moving the second reading of jthe Packet Liocnses Bill the Hon. J. M'Gowan said the serious accident on the northern coast had been responsible for the Bill. Communications had reached him from all over the Dominion. •Mr. Aitken was glad the Government had taken aotica'of thiit accident, and had declared, by this legislation, that strong drink had "to do with it. The right action, however, would be to cease the issuing of licenses to small steamers of the kind treated in the Bill. Some steamers had been voluntarily deprived of their licenses, and that was tacit admission that liquor on board was uot necessary to tho trade. Tho Minister said the Bill wont.far enough. Tho Bill was road a second time. STOCK ACT AMENDMENT. Tho Stock Act Amendment Bill was read a second time. IN COMMITTEE. A number of Bills were then committed. In tho Public Service Superannuation Bill tho Premier moved an amendment to bring undor the Bill "Permanent Militia and other members permanently employed in tho Defence forces." This was adopted on tho voices. In discussion on Clause 28, tho Premier, in reply to Mr. Hornsby, said that tho widows of members of the railway servico could obtain a compassionato allowance if tho mombors contributed on a 5 per cent, basis to the fund. Mr. Hornsby said ho would accept this on behalf of the railway men. An amendment was adopted excluding members of tho Goneral Assembly from the provisions of tho Dill. A new clause was added providing for a ballot of the contributors to tho Police Provident Fund as to joining tho Public Service Superannuation Fund. Another now clause was adopted providing for the employees of tho Manawatu Railway Company coming under the Act. Tho Bill was reported with amendments. Tho Sheep Tax. The committal of the Stock Act Amendment Bill was tho occasion for a discussion on the sheep tax, which Clause 2 of the Bill

proposes to repeal. Messrs. Poland, Hornsby, and Ell favoured the; continuance of the tax. The clauso was retained by 41 to 16, and tho Bill was reported as - amended. Packet Licenses. In the Packet Licenses Dill an attempt .by Mr. Aitkcn to prohibit the supply of liquoc to any passenger was defeated by 37 votes to 19. Mr. Fisher made a similar, endeavour in regard to the crew, and was;defeated by 30 to' 18. _ The Bill was reported as amended. BILLS PASSED; The Public Service Superannuation Bill, the Stock Act Amendment Bill, and the. Packet Licenses Bill were read: a, and passed. The House, at 12.50 a.m., adjourned until half-past two this afternoon: , - ,