LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 38, 8 November 1907, Page 7

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

BCAFFOtDfNC INSPECTION BILLi Tho 'Attorney-General ' (Hon. Dr. J. ,G. Findlay)' moved''tho second reading, of tho Scaffolding ?Jn'spectibn Amendment Bill, which''had''already passod through the. Lower 'House. ~.' ■ '. i ~ ... ' , Thd'sec'6nd'roacling ; w - as'ngreed to on tho /'voices,:!and'the'Bill was thon'put through Committee amendment, read a third time/'aiid passed; • ■'• '■ ■■'■■.'? ■■':] ■'[''■"' THE LAND BILL.' ; THE COUNCIL tAND. ITS LEADER. '.' • \ .■ A'BREEZE. ; , ' Ori v tha-motion to. go ; into Committee on the Laud Laws; Amenument Bill, The ...'Attorney-General, asjfed the Council to assist him..in passing tho measure. .Ho hoped ( .tliose,who. were ' not altogether satisfied with', it"would n'ot 'cause embarrassment; •'by.■forgetting'that the Government, had' giveri tbe'most.careful.consideration to every part?'of'.it;.:: He.submitted-that it would be better-v to.? put. it on...the. Statuto Book, althqughrit .fell thp r dewe's. of. some' lion, jncrabq'r's,'.than f sUfck improvements on. the;'existing la\v "as it : did' contain should' not be plabed'on the Statute Book. "'"•■' Tho-Hon/'Jvltigg, .who had-given notice ofj some vital ainenumeiits, said that if tho Council jicojifintd. itself,.,, to ..Sanctioning, what was. done -in anothei:,.pjace',,. people would ■be asking, ,what ( ,the CounciCeiisted' for. When ' the hew .members folt; moro'confidence, they would f 'act more'independently> 'and the 1 , ■'. Council'would'become-more useful.' At present the ''hew''' members •, rightly Ifelfc thornselves undor-,; air obligation to. support the, Government .in its policy ~ measures. Ho ■ claimed tjiat he was.acting as a true,friend to in pointing out certain mistakes' 'it' had''mado. -The ,' Government was losing strength. 'He thought' Ministers, should, have gone' to the country on the land question last year. They would then have' had a. great policy -to 'put before the people, .instead of having to defend a number ■of concessions... ; '.v , ,'••.'. Indignant, Members.. .. . , The 'Hon.iJ.sß. :Callan protested against the' Hon. J. ■Rigg's remarks about the new members,y of. whom ..he was-.ono ■He had always--considered and' .endeavoured, where necessary/to amend all measures for the.best interests of the .community. The Hon. J. Barr also objected to Mr., RiggJs.-obsecrations.. He' declared that ho was'under.no. obligation to anyone but the All-Wise. 3nd Supremo Being to do what lie beliey'ed tp ; bo the best,for his fellow, men." . Other .members baring" spoken, The;iflon: W. Boehari asked mombers to take no notice of what Mr. Rigg had said. 1 lest they should risk ..tho, fate of the Bill by sending'it back to the Houso with amendment's.',, ,'.■■ '■', '■ Hon.? Dr. Findlay in Reply.

The' 'Attorney-General said ho would bo trilling with-tue intelligence of hon. members and frith the English language it', bo did not'treat the speecn of the .hon. Mr. Itigg'as ono that'was intended to discredit the Govorniheut that'had recoiitly appointod him to His seat in .the, Council. "I take full responsibility, for. that statement," said the Attorney-General. /'Can he, 'with any regard for comrnonsenso or tor the .English language, say that his speech; was not calculated to discredit the administration to which I belong?." . -', ' . Hon.. J, iligg: " No'. .It was. not so." ' Attorriey-Gcnoral, continuing, insisted that'Mrl.ltigg's remarks appeared to havo beenjeoncoivod..in enmity and oxpresscd in enniity.,'. He] had oxpected that Mr. Bigg would bavb"said'something' to removo tho impression that, ho intended to discredit a Government, that had always treated him as a friend and that ho'had always i been inclined to support. Hon.. Mr,;Kigg: "I will explain when wo get into Cbmmittco. " Reflections on Councillors' Honour." The ;Atto'rney-Gonoral wont on \o sav that M r - Kigg.lu'id made reflections on.tho honour of Councillors. Could any hon. member espapa frqni.tho conclusion that certain of Mr. Bigg's remarks were tantamount to saying that,,in.,return for their elevation, tho now- mombers wero going' to' prostituto thoir convictions,, by supporting,, a measure with which.;,they totally .disagreed?'. He .asked' whether, that .was not a fair inference from what Mr. ,sigg had said. ■ H . on -. J not. I was referring, to the -details of measures." The Attorney-General said that, taking tho words. usod : in-, their ordinary acceptation and in ignorance of: tho motive, that may havo-prompted them, one could not escap'o from the- conclusion that was drawn by the Hon. J. ,-B;f Callan, when he felt that a personal; reflection- had beon, made, on his own integrity'. • '' The Attorney-General and New Members. Ho (tho Attorney-General) wished' to point out that Mr. Paul, Mr. Rigg, Mr. Callan ,and. Mr. Anstey—all now members— had do'np thoir best to obtain modifications in the Land Bill. Had ho ever asked any ono of them to stay his hand? A Councillor: " No.' ! Tho Attprney-Gpneral: <"I invited all of them-to try?to improve the Bill, and even to carry'-amendmonts against me, if they could.''l "resent"tho, suggestion that I was trying.-s>■'.iie th'o tongues of honest men." ■ Hqh'.i.'Mr. Bigg: ""Did you not invite us not tf> ; amend-the Bill? " Tho,: ; iAttornoy-Genoral:. ",I asked hon. members;>to- consider- whether it would not bp better' tb.<'pass; the Bill as it stands, on tho principle that thrce-quarteis of a loaf is better than no bread. If I am not to make

such a'suggestion; then I wajit to know what leadership is coming to.". Hon. J. T. Paul: " Any leader would havo dono it." Facing tho Music. Tho Attorney-Goneral said ho had warned mombers against taking a conrso that might upset tho Bill. He thought suroly a man of tho Hon. Mr. Bigg's experience would not alloW.,himsclf to remain undor tho .inference that his. speech was intended to discredit the Government; and to cast reflections upon hon. members. If what Mr. Rigg had said was truo, and if the Government had to go to the country at a disadvantage, and to face : tho. opposition of Mr. Bigg and the forces which ho commanded, and had to return with a diminished following, he (the Attorney-General) would- bo ready to face tho situation. "The Council then went into Conimitteo on tho Bill.- ... Mr. Rigg Defends Himself. ""' . The Hon.- J. Rigg said that in tho storm in -a tea-cup, as ho oalled it, which had just occurred, tho correctness of nothing that ho had said had beon challenged, though his motives had'been impugned. A mbro perceptive mind would have seen in his remarks tho words of a true friend of the Government. Ho always tried to spoak So as not to hurt his friends, but.in.this matter his political religion, so to speak, was, involved. In regard to tho position of the new members —and'ho did not mind being reckoned as one of them—ho had said that in regard to the details of policy measures— (A Councillor': "You did' not say details") —they would feel under an obligation to support tho Government,'and ho approved of that feeling. ' Ho would not" say that Dr. Findlay had endeavoured to gag tho Council, but the request that ho had mado could not but have upon the' new mombers the effect it was intended to have,' namoly, to cause the Bill to go through without amendment. Not Hostile. ; '.-■'. Proceeding, amidst frequent interruptions, tho Hon, Mr. Rigg said ho did not bclievo Ministers would regard his speech as mado in , a hostile spirit. Recognising his knowledge of tlio political situation, they would put upon his remarks a very different interpretation from that placed on them by some hon. members. The Hon. J. Barr had virtually said that ho was sent to the Council by the Almighty, and recognised no 'obligation to % anybody else. Mr. Barr had customarily spokon after-him in tho Council, and had based-attacks upon him' on , somo few of his words. He asked tho hon. gentleman in future to try to analyse the moaning of language moro carefully.. The Hon. J. Barr declared that everybody knew quite well what Mr. Rigg's words meant. The groat .mistake that had been made that day was to pay too much attention to tho hon. gentleman./ In future, Mr. Rigg would havo vory'little attention from him. . The Committee soon afterwards began tho actual consideration of tho clauses of tho Bill.'

Tho, Hon. J. T, Paul moved' to amend Clause 4 by reducing the' first term of a renewable .lease from. sixty.-six years to fifty years. ' .'■.•' Another Ministerial statement. The Attornoy : General said that the Hon. Mr. Paul had discussed the amondmont'with him previously. Other members had also enabled'him to.discuss their amendments with' thom.-includjnßgMr. .'ltigg. ; All tho amendments on tho Order Paper had been treated in this way,;and.lio had also discussed them with the Minister for Lands. ;Somo of the Suggestions had commended themselves to his colleague-and himsolf, and certain of tho amendments., on tho 1 Supplementary Order. Paper had been based upon tlioni. .Ho wished to state definitely that all tho. amendments which he intended to support appeared on that.Supplementary Ordor Paper, and ho would oppose, the others of which notico had boon given, by several members. • The amondmont-was lost by 7 votes to 20. Tho Hon. J. T. Paul next moved to mako the second term, of the ronewa.blo lease of ordinary Crown lands, thirty-threo years instead' of sixty-sixj'but this was defeated. Various Amendments, ' The.Hon. J. Rigg moved to amend Clause 16 so as to restrict to holders of. leases in perpetuity thp right to pay up to 90 per cent, of the capital valuo of their holdings. Defeated by 24 to one | The Hon. J. Anstoy moved to give tho tenant freedom from cropping restrictions, when his permanent improvements, together with his payments,'amount to 50 per cent, of tho capital /Value. This was dofeated bv 19 to 1: I J ; On tho motion of tho Attorney-General, a now sub-clause was .addod to protect' local bodies against any .reduction of " thirds " as a consoquori'co of a tenant's rent being reduced tlirpugh payments under Clause 10. . At, Clause 18, the Council agreed to a Jlinistorial amendment to reduce tho rent of a renewable lease converted from a lease in perpetuity from 5 per cent, to 4} por cent, of tho capital value, in' the case of Land for Settlement land, and to incrcaso it from 4 per cent.-to' 4£ per cont. in the case of other land. This: brings tho clause into lino with Clause 76 of the Bill.

, The Hon. J. T. Paul moved to delete Clause. 20, which gives the owner of a lease in perpetuity the right to purchase the fee simple at the capital'value. This was defeated by 22 to 4. The maximum term iof leases of town and suburban and village lands was increased by a • Ministerial amendment from 21 years to 33 years. ' v i Several verbal aiid machinery amendments wore also mndo 'on the motion of the Minister, and tho Bill was reported, FIRST READING. . The Agricultural 'Labourers' Accommodation Bill was received from tho Lower Ilouso and read a first time. ' The Council rose at 12.55 a.m. I