HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 35, 5 November 1907, Page 7

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

. <i y MEASURES. When the House of Representatives met it ;:'7.3Q''p.m. .-yesterday'/the; Maori .Land i ulaims .Adjustment and' Laws Amendment '•" IJjll (Hbn. J." Carroll) ancl'the Nga'timaru: Landless Nitives! Bill (Hon. J. Carroll) .were ■'read'ii'.first';'tiirio."(;■';.'.,■..'■■;..;.• , ,'''',". y , .'.''..!•

DURATiON'OF THE SESSION./ i The Premier ■; stated; -that ho would -.this afternoon- (Tuesday) indicate to ■monibers on which'-the.i , u i blic..'\Vorks Statement'would be brought down, and also itho date'.'.when Parliament would be prorogued, »nd. he would also,announce .what -Bills the House would be asked .-.to go on with this ■session; ~; ' ''.. ■■ ■■"■■. •■. '"•.:■ ■ ■.. >. -. ... ,••': • ■

' ; MEIKLE ACQUITTAL BILL. ; V;.;. ..IN COMMITTEE.' ■■■;■■ ; •'";;• ■' ■"•' ' 'The House then went,into committee, and tho iMoiklo Acquittal Bill was further' disjussed.-. . .;■, .;-.-. ■/,:..,-.', : , .•■ ■ ;>' / : Mr;' Poland ' (Ohin'emuri) ask'ed . if, the Premier would statement as/ to proposed., a'mendtnents,...'as ;he :had. given tho .House to /.understand he .'would do. . He moved,., to, alter; the -title so as- to make it cover,other cases than Meikle's, and road.an extract from the, report ot the Royal Coiiit mission to show, that the judges thought the Bill should be. general in its application.

Statement*by. the* Premier. ■ "-Tho.^.Premier ..said he had .not promised that he.'.would propose any amendment, but only, tliat if ..any of tho members who had b.eeri: opposing the Bill would suggest amendments vto. hiin,'he.; would .consider them. . JS'o member, had approached him to do so. He could jiot accept the amendment just moved. The Bill proposed, to carry out what the Commission'.recommended, so far as Meikie was concerned—namely, ■to remove his namo from the,, records.... The lloyal Commission Baid that, on the,evidence,, they would not havo;recommendod ; a,jury .to convict Meikie, and the .Government : came -to, the conclusion that.a' special'Bill was.requircd to deal witli his ca5e....,,, ~, i . . : .. , .', '~ . '.■ , Mr. Polaiiil • " Tlio judges distinctly stated that it should bo a. general Bill." The Premier:." The Goy.ernnicnt'disagrees with that. It , would not effect the desired object, as .far as. Meikie is concerned.: That would hayo to be drino.afterwards by an administratiyo Act under a general statute/'Mr. Hqrnsby. (Wairarapa) said that if the Premier.-would accept the. amendment, with tho necessary consequential amendments, the Bill would go/.througli in a few moments. If the. present form were adhered to, lie, for one, would. bo prepared to, stay there-until Christmas,, . ■..--, Mr.' Hemes (Bay of Plenty) asked tho Prpniier whether he proposed to put tho Bill through, or whether he would give way as on the former .occasion. He thought tho Bill was i just and right one, and ought, to go 'through- ~■•;.. Mr. Baumo (Auckland East) urged that She Bill should go through without further waste of 'time..- Ho was, hoivoi-er, inclined to think that the caso should hayo been met by- • the ..Attorney-General. moving 'in the Supreme Court to quash the conviction.

To. Clear the Galleries. Mr. Remington (RangitikeiJ urged that tho Bill should-bo a ■general one.- He wished it to apply to such cases as that of AValter fricker, of Rangitikei, who was wrongfully convicted of murder. If the Premier insisted on going on witii the Hill, in , its present form, he woiild again feel/it necessary to draw attention to the fact that there were ■strangers in tho gallery, as it would he his duty to read the /evidence given before the Commission, especially, after the challenge given by JYleikle in tho Wellington papers. The motion to clear the galleries was lost on,tho voices, ami Mr. Remington remarked, " Tho responsibility rests with tho Committee." ' ' Mr. Ileke (Northern Maori) supported Mr. Poland's amendment. llr. F. Laivry was. commencing to read a resolution' of a meeting of. citizens of Auckland regarding Meikle's case when he was ruled out of»order by the Chairman. Mr.

Lawry proceeded to state that tho resolution wont, on to threaten niembers The Chairman: "The lion, m'einhcr is out of .order." Mr. Flatman/thought that tho Commission, when having before it tho whole facts and details of the case, should -'have dealt finally with it, .; The caso should never have come before Parliament, and he predicted that eybn if a committee wero set up to decide regarding compensation, there, would still be no finality iirthe matter, lie supported Mr. Poland's amendment, and 'contended,' in answer to Air. Baiime, that the report of the Commission' was not as satisfactory to Mciklo as it might have been. ■ ' ' ■ ! The debato was then carried on by Messrs. 'Horrisby, Remington, and Lawry, ' ' .'■.■"■'■■■.-" /'" ' '' . -. - Remarks by the Premier. A few minutes before tho supper adjournment the Premier roso and said he had not been surprised to hear the remarks of the member lor Bay, of Plenty, because tho latter wanted to make this a party, measure* Ho introduced the party spirit into everything. Mr. Herrica had asked what tho Government intended to do.,with the Bill. This question ho would answer at the proper- time. The Government had brought the. Bill down with the. intention of putting it through.. Ho in-ferred-further to statements of Air. Herries, and asked the lion, gentleman if he could keep a quorum.in the House until 4 o'clork in the morning., : ■ , ) ,Mr. Herries: I am prepared to sit here myself. ;*.-* , ,-. ■. . .■:/-.- ' .* ; • The Premier replied that that was not the question.: .The Premier then referred to the second reading' of the Bill, which ho- said was carried by 46 ■ votes to ten; yet- there were, suggestions that, because of the form in r/hich the Bill was brought down, that the' Government were against it. . Some wanted the Bill to bo of, a 'general character, but how WB3 that going to improve the matter? They would then have.to do exactly what' the Bill proposed. He directed attention io his speech at the second reading of the Bill, when he had shown reasons why the,'Bill should .not bo of, a general character. Ho referred also to the report of the Commission where it was recommended,: that, for , tho 'purposes of dealing with Meikle's claims, he should be treated as' Having been acquitted upon a retrial on the charge of sheep-steal-ing. He asked how could Meikle be now treated as not having been found guilty, except by Act of Parliament? ' .; . ( Mr. Remington: You, saw how the Beck caso was dealt.with. . The. Premier: I havo. nothing to do with the Beck case. I am dealing with ' the .Meikle case. ■■•■■,•• . \ . ' . -Mr. Hornsby: The Commissioners tell you how it can bo.done., ■ The Premier proceeded that tho Royal Commission reported that they would not have regardotK the evidence as sufficient to send to ji-'juryV ~..-' : A'member: T\v,nty years after! iV * *

.The Government's £>^*ty. 'The Premier: It doesn't matter how long afterwards. The Government were proposing to say how', tlio findings of the Commission should bp given effect. to. •- Mcikle's name would liavo, to be 'eliminated' from the record's, and liow could tiiat bo done except in the way .the Government were proposing. They'proposed, in the . Bill that wherever Mcikle's name, ca'mo tip in .the- records it should bo looked upon as eliminated. As to .the' matter of: .remuneration; why had the Government' suggested that a Committee should go into this, aspect of the case? - If .they had not ,done so, they would have; a charge laid lipoii them n't ..some future ,timo; perhaps,'that nrpner investigation had not been gi.veri.'' -The" Government had come. to. the conclusion not to .have tlio matter of compensation included in the Bill at all, but only ;to...deal..with.the removal ~af Meikle's.namo from the ,I'eoordSj and leave the remuneration to-a .Committee, who .would, recommend .to Parliament ...anil then to ,tho v Government.-The-whole question .had been: placed fairly before, the House. - Although members wero opposing the Bill, .the Government still had a-desiro to go on with it and'sco tho matter, brought to an end and tho Commission's recommendations given effect to. ;... , ; • ,Mr. Remington: It won't bo final. The Premier added that he would try to do his duty in tho matter.; Tho Government had .gorio thoroughly,-fairly, and impartially into the question, and they had come to tho conclusion tmU the course. they were pursuing was the best one. . .

Not a Quorum. —- Immediately after the supper adjournment, there, was almost a count-out: When the Chairman' announced that the Committee had resinned, Sir. Remington rose to draw at--rihtioii to tho, state of the House. The bell warning, and the' Chairman found that theri was not a quorum (twenty members) present; He, therefore, left the chair, sent for the Speaker and reported to hini that thei'o were oily IS members in the House. The Speaker counted again, and made it 20, for .Sir. Sidcy'Vnnd' ' Atr. Field liad , just come in. Tho House , immediately.went'into Uqmmitteb again,'and'Air. Hornsby delivered yet another address. : ■' ■ ; : '

A Lively interlude; ' ".. Mr., Parata, then spoke in.Maori without an interpreter. The. speech was vehement in tone and.was accompanied with numerous gestures. . . - . ■< ■ Mr. Gray roso to a point of order. He) couliJ not understand wnat the lion, member for. tho Southern Maori District .was saying. (Laughter.) . ~ .A Member: "That's your trouble." . ■. . The.Chairman: "The hon. member is qiiito in order in addressing .tho House in the Maori language." Mr./ Parata having spolcen a few , more sentences, Mr. Poland raised a point of order. Was the last statement of the hon. member correct? (Laughter.) Tho Chairman: "1 didn't hoar it." (Much laughter.) ■ ■ . All 1 . Parata was next interrupted by Mr. Remington, who said that ho would be at a disadvantage ' in' replying to tho hon. member, as he could not follow his meaning. Tho Chairman again stated that the lion, tmomber- was ontitled to' spealc in, the Native tongue. If. another hori. member could not reply, that was his (tho tatter's) business. (Laughter.) Mr. Greonslade suggested that tho hon. member was reading his speech; biit the Chairman .again ruled in favour of tho Maori member. • About this time, the interpreter came in, and the speech proceeded more smoothly and intelligibly.

"Dancing the War Dance." .Mr. Parata stated that he thought Meikie ought to be sent back to prison, and ho was not sure that he ought not to be hanged. (Laughter.) He had heard, he did not know if it was true, that Meiklo had said he would shoot somebody, if he did not get compensation. (Laughter.) For his own part, he was not afraid (excitedly, and making as though to take off his coat). He had not tiie slightest fear of Meiklo. (Laughter.) -Mr. Parata, proceeding, began to gesticulate still more freely, when Mr. Ngata rose to a , point order. 'Was the hon. member in order'dancing in tho war dance? (Laughter.) Mr. Poland said the lion, member for tho Kastern Maori must know that that was not tlie war dance by any means. The Chairman: ''I didn't notice tho lion, member doing anything out of order." (Laughter.) Mr. J'aratii: "I am sorry that somo members do not seem to appreciate my style cf oratory. It is the style that is customary with iuy people". But, seriously, 1 cannot support'such a measure as this." After, further speeches. Mr. Ngata, at 10.55 p.m., drew attention to the state of the House., The bell was rung, lialf-a-dns:en iiicmbri", lilcd in, and the proceedings were resumed.

Languid Hours. Mr. A. L. 1). Frnsei- said the Bill would be paGscc! without any difficulty if its supporters would iiiiree to amending it in the direction of declaring that Meikle had not been proved to be guilty. Several speakers read copious extracts

from the report of tlio Muiklo Commission.. On two occasions, soon after michiiglifc,. attention was drawn to- tlio state of the 1-lous.a. At 12.3d a.m. Mr. Ngata moved to report progress. The Premier said he recognised that then! v.V.3' a determined opposition to the Bill on , tho part of soue members, lie suggested that the Committee should come to a division on the amendment to the title of theBill. Ho was not prepared to accept the motion to report progress. Ministers and members who supported the Bill did not wish to speak on it, us that would only load to protracting the proceedings throughout the night. The motion to report progress was defeated by 19 to 18. At 1.15 a'.m., Air. Remington moved that the Chairman do leave the' chair. Lost by 21 to S. A motion, by Mr Hanan, to report progress immediately afterwards, was carried by 10 to 14. ' On a motion to adjourn, the Premier said the responsibility for the Bill rested with the Government. They had acted fairly and with complete sincerity, and the Cabinet was unanimous. The House thon adjourned, the hour being 1.55 a.m.