EVENING SITING.

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 32, 1 November 1907, Page 9

EVENING SITING.

Thpre,;;was ;do afternoon- sitting , of • either of; Houses i ofi iParliament- : yesterday. , .■' The Lower.; Houoe"moti at.7:30.' ■• - ■" '•'■:'' '■- ,'l'ho Tauwcrunui Town Council Election Validation (Hon. J. 'Carroll) was read « first;time--. ■>,■,{..,<.■■„ , ~;•:■■•>. ; .-.:,,

s'^j^LOCAr BODIES'; LOANS. ]''. '.. '"'.'

:. '.;• INTEREST; : .'■:.■.', Ao , 'Tremicir,_nioyecl i 'tho j socohd' reading of. thfe <L6feal,' : . Loans. Apt "Amendment Bijl,:- , tp' , fedoc6' ) 'tho .rate of interest"on loaiis to local- btftlice as'alraadyallo-ivcd in the Dbminion'^Mi,. rorpos (Day.: of; I'loiity)' expressed pleas"^rp' lr at i ''tlie' ; ,'intrbdtiction of the, Bill; biifcfi'aid/thiit'.it' morfily'rostprbd the rates of int6rc?^ ! au_th6fised by the' Act of'l9ol. Tlic Bill ivasi r a tardy' act of jiisticp,';as ,irit'ercKt ffas':comihg 'down everywhere. ,' ■"'. ■■Mr/» : ;Gray (Christchurch 1 North), said' the liill T i#ould ,! 'l)e much • 'appreciated' by local bodies. The loans jindor the' Act totalled two and a quartor-'millions stbrling. Ho suggostod thaj, thq .Goveniment.. should borrow raonby St'.il'.per'nont. and lend.'it to th'b,local bodies L tp'-onablb them'to'pay off existing loans) ,'H'hjch'; bore ihtcrbst ranging from four to .nijiff-'pcr'cent.' , "■ •" More Borrowing Power Wanted. . 'Mfj,Stevens^(Mannwatu) advocated aii.cxtorisip'ii' of; .the borrowing powers of localbodies, .'especially ..those in ■ the . biick-blocks, which'.lliac}.,to undertake a -.largo .'quantity of publics.worts.,'.' ~., . ~.-.; ... ~.-. ... Mr;';James,.Allon (Briico) advocated a still fHrthe'r reduction of the rate of interest to

local.-.bodies, so that theso bodies would borrow'more ifor road construction, and would' hot require. : Buch largo grants from tho Public Works Fund. >■ '■■■: ■■■■■■ •■■ ■■' '•■'■' 'Mr. Hogg (Mastorton) said the Bill was receiving the blessings' of the Opposition. _ V;Mr. Massey:'l'voasked for it half-a-dozen times./ ;•-•■■■■'■ ■ -. ■ " : ! --< ' ' ■ Heavy Rates in Walrarapa. • ,'. Proceeding,i.Mr. Hogg, expressed his. ap-, the Bill, and. spoke of the heavy rates which some of the settlers, in his district 'had to..pay ] for interest 1 .on loans. : This , was: especially' tho.caso in the counties, whore rating''on unimproved values,had not been adoptcdj'.becausethere the hardworking sottier was rated much', more severely..than tho, .absentee. ' Somq of the best of. the settlers were disgusted with their position, and wero talking of selling .out and going to Canada.. He suggested, that 'special' rates for. interest on loansVstiould be'levied on the unimproved yalue only. .' ',■.,.'. ..... Sinking Funds. ',' '■ '■ Mr./ Fisher '(Wellington Central)_ advocated tho adoption'of "the'systom obtaining iir Now South:-Wales' - and , Victoria; whereby tho local bodifis--were'''6blige'd to create sinking funds and ■ iiivSst tliem' in Government securities.' This-wolild- bo beneficial to tho local bodibs, as i their ■investment"'would bo'a' Bafo, one •backed by' the, State guarantee. . It' would ialso, 'iii c, the coiirso -'of a few years. ' place a.milliori'of moiioy'mlthe hands'of thoColonial'/Treasurer;, without any' .cost of flota": tion.'.;He : 'mehti6ned that 'the; total indebtedness' of ! tho' ; local'bodies in .the' Dominion >was upwards''of ; cloven millions''sterling.. ■■■■■ Mr.'- llanaii' '(InvqrcargiU) oxpressed' the opinion' that' the ;16cal bodies should be still further encouraged to borrow instead of applying to : tho-Government'for grants. Local bodies •neoded'a 'mbrq assured fina'neo, and .comprehensive'legislatiori'on tho subject was required'. 'He approved of the' suggestion made by Mr. Gray. . Reduction of interest would-lead to.lower,rates, and lower.rentals. i,: Mr.'.'Lang (Manukau);said.that a 'number of local bodies had been refused loans on ac'cpu'rit'.of. the .'stringency of the money mar'keti 'It, Vpuld \be! ,'pf ■ no.-use increasing the, lopal.'llmitVpf t bbrrowinp'.'if such answers must f.till do ■ eivon to applications. ~ Ho hoped that u'p'uld not bp tho casb: in .'tho.future.. Ho congratulated the Premier in bringing in tho =Bm.■•;; i .. 1 .v7,'/\;:.\:.v,,;;;,.',;. ..■.,■.:■.', ~,.' Mr. Massess yiews.;; I .' , '/:'.'. " '.".',."" ,;V . . Mr. Blasspy insisted on tho: necessity for suikihg fund's,, but ..did not, approve of Mr. Fisher's suggestion regarding investment of such funds in 'Government, securities. He thought;:'with : Mr. Hananj that ! compre : hensivo legislation on local bodies'' financq , should bo brought down. ,; Tho, local bodies' bad been hampered:by the'delay in bringing down the Public Works Statement. It was impossible for them to arrange for their works before 1 the Christmas'holidays, and thoy had to either -postpone thoir works until next year or go 'muddling along''through the'winter wasting public'.money. He ondorsed Mr. Allan's suggestion.that the interest on loans to local-■-bodieG''should be; still .further reduced so tliatfewcr Government grants would be required'. Grants -{rom the public'troa-. suryv would,-liowever,'-still be required, ospfeciaily in newly-settled'districts. ' Hβ ad-vocated-a''proper systom of graduated- sub- ( 'sidies'i according 1 to the rates' levied by -tho local bodies.' Town District Boards should be o .borrow, .beyond thpir, .present ■limit^'of.', i £3po^'. ci j;.'!' '; ."'■-' ■-.:'''■,:,-... C'-r \. The P.reni'ier.'s'Reply^,,'. ,;," .',., '..',_' i,' ~; '"i-'The'-Pr'emierj'iiriireplying, said the rate of interest to! local bodies was raised ; at atime of stfintroncy and uncertainty..in the monoy : miirket ;- ,cai)sqdoby i.wai'j•and no other .course wasipDSsiblo.i - -By.-'th'o : re- '■ Auction now 'tflnibp.; mado; the,, local, bodies; •wonld be paying interest, at a lower rato than the Government was' paying,on' much' of. its 'borrowed■mbriey.; In regard' to the" sugges-' 'tion th'at : 'tho:'loca.l;ho'di'es:sh'ould be p'neour-' "aged tOiborrowin'ore, and'rccoiyh less' ( in"Go-, 'verninent , " grants;£hoP.remiersaidthat'alai'go' ntimb'pr. of'-local bodies, had ' received. onor r 'mous'"'a'ssiMnbo' from the public exchequer for the construction , of iiecessary,; works. • 'If they 'were/to have ''11131 '. system, siiddonly changed : t6 'one under' which" the newer, districts''would, not have: siich' assistance,, but .would/have 'to 'pay 2f' 6i ; '3'per .'cent' for-' allt ■their' public' , works money, it'.would bo ! .un r . ■ fair ■.tp';'th6':'lat'ter.' 'A' ■cphtributory.' sch'emo'. would■'^β''jpreferablo. ''The 'proposal to ,give' the local'bodies niuch'moro money, at a low, rate of interest had often been 'discussed! It was ; siirrounded with difficulties, -i One \ question to ; be settled woiild.be the limit'of such ...borrowing.; The whole subject .would receive the fullest;consideration.in tho future.' ■ He! did,.nqt endorse' Mr. Fisher's suggestion, but it was ■ worthy.. of consideration i whether .aisiinplo!method of,dealing;with, the sinking funds ...of;.„ the local,.bodies, could not be.;de-: vised, in tho..interest,-of, thoso bodies. Thelnatter, would, have his/.careful consideration. The principle.;of.sinking funds.was a good one, but could not be-advantageoiislyi applied ;in overy case.: ...... •!,,... -■- ■■■ '■ ,■■•' -. .; . I The, second .reading, was, carried on ! the voices.,'..;- .-V-.■•■:■...:.i.':, ', ; -of' .M.-. ■ ~:'!': ,i.-'l' :■'■:.■'■■. ::'r~- ■'.' <■'■ ■ ' '■■■■'. '-'■'*

;>; ADVANCES TO SETTLERS. :

"]'■. :'_',i'.-AN .AMENDING. MEASURE;- •' ' .-•' ■■/■■ WORK'OB*, THE DEPARTMENT. .:.,■' .The, Premier moved the second reading ,of tho Government Advances to Settlors, Bill, which', is ; intended ; to facilitate' the making of advances Government to lend'money on'land hold, under lease',as may.:be defined "by notice in the Gazette! •The Bill also makes an alteration in the financial organisation of the. Advances. , to Sot-, tiers .Department, and in ,this,connection the- Premier! .explained that: the separation, of the Advances-, to, Settlors ; Act. from-tho Public Acountj''s6 ai to,enable,tho Department to make payments by cheque on Act, was a .'reversion ,-to, tho. position under the; original Act. , Tho system in. force in the .interval, had, boon."found, in., some, respects very !inconvonient. ~; . ,;., .■■,,..■■■■ ■„ . Great' Expansion. , . .•-'.,. •'■..,.■■■■ ..Tho Premier wont; on to refer to tho'.groat expansion -of tho work of, the "Advances'to' Settlers Department,' which, ho' said, had oxcooded all anticipations, and was now'ton times creator than it was" two years' a.foi Up to September 30, 1907,,thqrq were 25,751 applications ; for advances to settlors, tho amount applied for being £9,877,335. The .amount authorised to be advanced " was i £7,283,510, but 2240 settlers 'declined' the> offers , made to them,, so that, advance? amounting to £6,323,330 were" mado to 18,700- settlors, tho; average amount of the. advances'being "£33BV This proved that tho •Department was assisting tho man of small moan's. Last month, the business done bv the, Dcoa'rtment about ennnllcd the annual ,total nf two years ago." Sine*/ the inception of ttfo Department only sixteen frcohold and nino'leasehold farms bad conic into tho ■hands "of the Department, through tho failure of the settlers to repay the" loans, and in none of these, cases had there been any 'loss. ■ '■ .'...',■' . . , - Ativancos to Workers. The advances to workers had only been in ■force , , for-tho. last six- months, but tho-rd-sulis wore-.alroady oxcollcnt. L"p to Septcmber 30, there were 628 applications for a total of £168,765, and tho issun 0f.£134,795 to 526 workers had been authorised. Ton of th"-so had declined the offers, amounting to £2510. The tota lnmount advanced was £132,285, on an average of. £256 in each case. The Act, so far, was working well, and he expected to sec an enormous increase of the business. The Board had considered tho making of advances to workers in the country, and some had been made, but the Board' niiist' not bo expected to undertake any extremely hazardous risks. Cosinty Workers. Mr. J. Allen thought tho Promior-might have'.been genorous enough to give credit to tho'Loader ,of the Opposition,, who had first suggested the extension of these lending operations to the workers. He (the Speaker)

regretted'that thp. Act appeared to be applicable only to workers erecting dwollings on urban and suburban land. If money was being advanced to country workers, as the Premier bad said, lio was rifraid that was contrary to the Act. lie criticised tho change' in tho system of ■keeping tho accounts. Mr. Herries also questioned the wisuom (if the chango in tho system of necounts. Ho complained'of tbe want ot promptitude in advancing loans to settlers. Maori Farmers. '■ Mr. Ngata.suggested that a portion.of the revenues to bo derived in the future from nativo lands' should be used for making advances to Maori farmers, through tho Advances to Settlers Oflice. Ifc would "uc said by: tho Premier that no distinction was made b'otwecn Maoris and Kuropeans under the ..present Act, but the tact was that .there ,wero difficulties in the way of tho Maori obtaining an advance He warmly, approved ; of j tho "provision for lending on leasehold :Seqnrity, and hoped that advances would .bo . ma'rlq on Maori lease's under that clause. . Mr; Parata urged that Maoris should share equally,with I'akehas in the benofits of the Advances to'Sbttlers Act. A Slow Process. ' . .....".,... ■ Mr!'Grednslade (Waikato) congratulated the Government on the success of the Act, but complained of the delay experienced by settlors} in obtaining loans, and read correspondivnee from an individual who stated, ''Four mbnths since i applied, six weeks since I signed the mortgage, and no money yet." Ho thought some of the delav would bo'-avoided if tho approval of the commis.sionor'of Crown Lands were sufficient with-, out that/of the, Land ojoard before ,a' loan was granted.' ■'. . •'.' . The .Premier, in replying, said ho was quite'propVrecl to'arrange')or tlie.Act to ue as ' freely 'available to Maoris as to 'Europeans,' hut care must bo taken to ascertain that the lalicl pledged, as security was. being farmed. ■ In"''regard to tfie claim that. Mr. Massoy had suggested tho advances to workers, tho Premier said that Air. Massey did this by moving an amendment to tho Advances to Sottlers' Act, but this amendmont was .impracticable, and would havo been injurious to. tho Act. . .

j MEW POST OFFICES,

INVESTMENT OF SAVINGS BANK - "\ ' :'; ! r^TUNDS."' ~. " ~;../ Tho'Premier'moved the'second'reading of tho Post Office Savings Bank Funds Investment Bill. : '-- '' _•••'■'' ■! This i measure provides for the transfer of £200,000 from-tho'Post Office Account,to the Public' Account,'"such amount to bear interest' at a'rato not■'less' than that'payablc ,to depositors l in- tho; ,. Post Offico Savings Bank, and to : be used l for erecting now post office buildings in Auckland and Wellington; or in acquiring sites for- tho same, and to reimburso to the Public Works Fund monoy spent in tho acquirement of sites and ereotiqn of buildings for post offices. New Post Oflice for Wellington. . The.,Promior said the.Government bought somo, years ago a block of land at tho rear of'the present post' office .buildings ;in Wellington. '. ~ '.'■..- I ' ■: ; . -~ ■ . Mr. Aitken: "And yougot it too cheap." , 'Tho Premier::.. "I,: am v(jry. glad to acknowledge that wo mado an excellent bargain for the State." It was desirable to have a building for the use of the post office erected on that sito as soon as possible. In Auckland, tho Premier, went on,- 1 a site would havo to.be acquired, as thoro was not space ;on the present, one for a building; adoquatc for' the ..growing needs ,of tho post offico in that city. .'Hβ did not think, the : now' building- in 'Wellington could be erected for'loss than,£7o,ooo or £80,000.,. The Bill marked a, new departure. The post .offico itself would pay interest, on the, cost.of the buildings., A ■portion of the Savings Bank funds would ho taken as an investment, and intorest paid as to an ordinary investor. Really a Loan B\U. '"'■,' 'Mr. J. Allen 'said the'Bill" ought to b( called.Loan Bill No. 2. ThoiPost'Offico had already ample moans of .investing all its funds. ~He, asked tho House if it was wise to tip, iip the.Savings Bank-funds in bricks and mortar and.land. ' The , account should 'u? kept.-ready for emergencies. , - The buildings ought to-bo paid for out of tho Public Works. Fund. ■ -, . . •;: ■ 'i ■ -.'Mr./Wilford and ,Mr. T. - Mackenzie approved of the Bill. - ■ ; . \ ' -.. .

Mr. Aitken contended that tho investment ■would bo of a permanent character, which tho deposits in tho . Savings Bank ; w.erq not. These funds shonld bo invested in liquid securities:' He'; was also afraid that other State Departments- might suffer.from the with-d-awal, of Sayings Bank funds which had been invested with them.l ~;' .-., ~~, ;■,-.-.

;After further discussion, •■ .. . i ■,;',■! ,: .The' Promier. ropliod.; He■• expressed,'surprise; fcliiifc the members for Bruce and, Wellington East; should object to a nroposai to inyost the depositors' money in ci£y property when they thomselvos had advocated a fow evenings previously that ondowmont lands should be sold, and the money invested in city and suburban properties. ' He 'pointed out that tho, Government, which gave the security to the depositors should have tho right to say how the money was to bo'invested. He pointed out that the money was taken for investment' ■purposes. Last year thero had been' a'million 1 of deposits over withdrawals, on which the Government had to pay interest. He thought the present proposal afforded a good chahco for the in.vestment' of the Post Office ■money/. As to the statement of tho member for Wellington East 'that' only a small expenditure would ,be required for the first year, he said that no' Colonial Treasurer would take tho responsibility of procuring sites and calling for tendors unless some assurance was hold as to the remainder of the monoy required. 'The Bill was then read a second timo on the voices. . . . ... ; '