ENDOWMENT BILL.

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 28, 28 October 1907, Page 5

ENDOWMENT BILL.

AMENDED.PROPOSALS EXPLAINEB BTATOiMKNTS BY: 7 ™!) -MINISTER FOF ;.,., ...,,. .J- "LANDS;.- , ..J)u.nng L ithe. early of Saturday mornIng, the Hon. R, M'Nab gave some further explanation of the amended -ondowmont pro' ppsalsi;., Ho .-stated that of the orignia," y,()00,000 acres, 7,500,000 acres' had been'ii the Kou.th, and 1,500,000 in the North. Twt million acres wore to bo taken from tho arof. in' the South. To make up for that it'waj proposed that small grazing runs grantee under the 1892 Act and renewable leases . wore.to; bo included.' . Grazing runs coverce an.areaof.Qoo,ooo acres; and tenants coulc suiter no hardship, sfnco the teimro would not be altered. Tho option, of tl|o frephald wou[d. not bo interfered with in connection/ with the renewable leases. A settler couldoxercisp .th'olopt'ipii:''- If-he chose a reuewahle , lease, 'tho land wouldVgo under tho endowment. '.The change would inako a fairer pro-portion-between- the. t\vo islands. '.. -' •,■;.■.' Mr. Fisher asked whether the two million acres, now to bo squeezed out of the, endowments, would como under the optional tenure. ' ' ' ■ i '.'Mr. M'Nab.said it was' possible, \ but ypi7 : improbable,' because .-'tlie area would' bo grazing land. .." ":■.,' Mr. Fisher said it seenied as if.the, Goyernment 'intehcled to whittle' domj. the, pro-v. posed endowment, to soven .million- acres. .What, he asked,. vras the object of.putting"' out grazing, lands simply-to put' in ' pther : grazing - lauds?., It was simply, a,poncessjon' made with tho object of lessoning opposition to tho -I3nd.qwm.ent Bill. . ■ . ■ ;.-, ■ ..':':' .'■ Mr, Massey: To make, it loss objectionable' to certain members. . -.. _ : ..., Mr. Fisher: It is a ; mero shufflo of the cards, taking :out. some grazing lands'and: putting in others. . . ";'.;' Mr.- W.-. Fraser said the two million l acres , to' be deducted were pretty well all. in the. South Island.-' , ■ •' ' ,; • ; "-.'.''"' „■ i '" : : ! Mr.M'Nab: All in the South Island..- '; '• Mr. W. Fraser: Will' there bo an opiiortnnity of discussing overy item in tho schedule?^ Mr. M'Nab: Jilvery lino of it, ' word by; word. . .i . "';•■: Mr. -\V. Fraser said the , position iippqared to bo still very unsatisfactory. Uadef tho! now proposals ,tbo endowments migkt, eventually; as other lands came into them, mount •up to ten or pvoii fifteen million acros. , ' '• ■'"■'!• Mr. Rpss said a nuinber-of small grazing runholdors had tho right of converting; their .' twenty-one year leases to tho lease-in-per-petuity tenure. Would that right bo affected ' by inclusion ill tho ondowment area? v'■.'."'.." , Mr. ,'M'Nab:. They .will , have no .right to convert. There is the power now, but tlio hon. goiitloman voted with me to put. a clauso , in , the' Land.B.ill taking that power. away. v ' ■ ! ■""'''''.'. > ' ■ ' Mr, Ross:. But what is tho .position in regard to those who hold prior rights? ,' '.; Mr. iVJ'Nab: There is just the ppwor of the Ministor to. give-it. , There is no right..., ■ ' Mr. Janics Allen "said tho 1892 runs, and futuro grazing- runs also, .would now come into tho enapwmnnt-s, . j,i.,. "s ;

Mr. M'Nab :> Yes, that is 60.-. , : Mr/ Alloft-:.'Wliaf; iibout the. 1885 runs ?, As they run •'out and-comd .to ba, relet, \vhaji; .will; happen? , .; ■■'■.''/■'' :,,, '> " '. ■',■.'*'■ vCUff.' M'Nab i They ; will be old Act for twenty-one years.': They wpri'f; , be. in the. endowments. ... ' '.; ; ' ; ..■'■"•■' -; "After. , some, further,protests .by Opposition/.tlie. Vital 'blaiiscs of tho Bill werppostppn'od,'. and Zμ...number •'of••.maphi.nery olau§ea .were:put,.throughj ; as already: reported. ■.■;'.'."' :: ''''-'' : 4N iNTEiiviEf; : ' ■'■'' ; ':"'l : :;; i v Oil being asked. , for his opinions regarding the. proposed endowments;.t'ne-Leader of the 'Opposition; (Mr. Alassay) stated, the position as--'follows ip- , ' ~'■' -'-.i'li ;;\ [~' 'i/ .■.-'.;- r ' "According to information supplied to Par,li.amonjijastypai',= -thorq. still remains in. the of tho Crb'nVilO or 17. million : a,cr(!s, of .landpiiicluding; land .losased;for pastoral ■pur■rJosas, - ijiidvcniisisting iprincipally of sepqnd and third-class - this:'land, the! juaiid/ Bill would able with right or nurohase •systpm, , ;tjiu;?ya.,years' lease in per■petuity systom being abolished. Tho Euaowr Client J3UI, , as iutrpducqd, 7 provided- for "t]iq sotting ;aside : of' nine millipii.iacres qf ,'.thesc' lauds as oiidowmeuts, jioihinallyfpr'the purpqspSifofiVpclucaViqn., ahii i; Ql;l, ; , ijga"' pensioiis. •rhe : 'ibsufdjt-y' : 'prWio,\prpppsal is proved by : tlio"i'act ,t!iat tlio oxiiectod t.s'i ; bfj -(leriycil•,.from ■■'. those■■ 9,000,000; acres' is ■bujy'isqme 'itas : not likely-to be ■f|r.'oiit!y'rin'6roas'edi.in: future,' whilst the pre'.tscht''.'cost''ofi■■toducatipiV:aud olil age' beiisidha ■is';betweaiv'£l,loo;oo()'wi(l £1,^00,000;?': ; ■! '■ '•■ Mr.■ 'Mnssby■ referred''to' tko disaprov?l pressed by a number of Southern l membors i|iir"ing the second reading.debate at the large proportion, of- onddwmonts acrbs) , ■ thaij it was 'proposed to set apart-in .the. South Island. ... As.a , - consequenco of these complaints, tho' "'Premier, now proposed to strike-put-twp million acres from tho South Island proportion.- y; "M theVsamo timo, hpwr over," continued Jilri Massej', "it is proposed to ihcludo v in:;.thg ,ondowmqnts the grazing rVins and all the land that may in future ■bo takpn up under tho now renewable lease ■systpm:.; ,It;is:-sbnipw|ia6JlilScult to saj, just yet' That flic effect will'.bo;/ becauso, 1 . in all. probaqilityjMargo-area's of laud .'\riH : <be'.pi)r» ■ohasbjl) .Growni.ifroni'. tlj'o' Natives.'. ,'illi'jsv laud/,will' bo- throiyn- open iindor , 'the ■optiqiial•■system,: and. -jf any part' of it'/is up:.'.under tho''renewable. lease, suph land will bpcomo' part' .of tho' ondqwmoiUs, -'In the.icase ; bf;"tlib small grazing runs it is.also' , impossible;'t(j- sayVwhijt the ultimate olFect of the" new proposal will bo, for the j-ouson that it"applies ; hot , -only.to tho land •now-sot;apart as sni«H grazing runa, but.atea to- any land which may- bo classified undop that Heading'in future. ; ::Foi| instance,' there, aro'a number of .very largo areas held under i'art : ;6-. of .the .Land , Act. for pastoral .puriposes'. --As thoso. leases fall iti they may be sub-divided 'iu'to small grazhigruns, and thus become part of the endowments.-. Anpt-her important pointjs cbntained in-the fact that ,if when pastoral leases of those runs fal.Un, there is any portion of such land fit for close -. settlement, that portion.may under the present hlw be. so disposod of. ->In the ordinary way tho iand would bo available under the optional system, but ill the caso of land se(j apart as endowments, it will bo available only under the ronowablo ileaso. Under ; s\ich circumsfancos, settlement will suffer, a.nd ■porhapsWripusly.' , - . . - : , Sidpy,:Palmer, Wiggins, sen., Brico (skip). "Is not-tho area of endowmGnts in the Nqrth jsiand likely Vtq- be increased by ilia 'latest , ' , proposal J , ".-" 3 .- ' . - • •■■' "That is so, of course, but how much it is impossible to say, becauso, as I have said,, it depends to a large extent upon tlip amount of land thai may be taken up, under ths roncnvabloMei)se or set apart as small grazingruns." ■"■'•■ -■■■■'' ; - > : : ; Speaking pn the proposed 'endowments gen< orally, Mr. .-Massoy said:—"Our exporinnca of second-class country land as endowmentff has been tho reverse of satisfactory,, and J do: nut think l ' that qndowmont is the rea" object of- what is.nroposed. , A largo propor* tion of the proposed, endpwmont is of.sucli poor quality; that littlo' incrbases iV ; yalu?'can bo expected from it," while the'bottoi portions will require a krgo expenditure for reading, etc., which will still further dim> inish tho oxpratod income. Tho ■ real '.object. I bcliovo, is to have tho lauds natiqnajiser- . and qocupiod under a lensohold tenure, anc. so please that seption of the House' and theii Supporters whose motto, is: 'No freeholder, need apply.' ",- . '.'. -. ■',- . '! ! J)q you think that, .generally speaking] the pp'w proposals are less objectionable than tho fqrmor iiiuposals?" ' '■ - ("No, L.hardly, think, so.. .Under the first proposal thnrp was a finality-—the-area' wan I'lxwi jvti'a defiiiito under tho.sys-t-om now proposed there will bo no finality' .