THE PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Cromwell Argus, Volume IV, Issue 183, 13 May 1873, Page 6

THE PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

The 'session of the Provincial 'Council of Otagq v )lt i 4 opened by His Honor the Superintended- on Tuesday last, at noon, thirty-four'ojut -of the forty-six members of which it is composed being present, and among the punctual members being our much-appreciated representative, Mr Hickey. His Honor's address on opening the Council is very lengthy, and embraces remarks upon nearly every matter of interest affecting the Province. Its extreme length prevents the possibility of our publishing it, or even giving any abridged report of it. It is very gratifying, however, to derive from it the information that 'the Province is in a prosperous condition ; that the gold exported during the year amounts to 169,212 ozs. as ■ against 166,372 last year, thus showing an increase -of nearly 3000 ozs. ; that the total value of Provincial produce exported (inclu"sive of gold) amounts to £2,279,663 as against £1,190,000 last year ; that the Province com'mences this year with a credit balance at the Bank of £16,698; with other evidences of prosperity. A mong Gold-fields matters mentioned in the Speech, His Honor says, "It is intended this year very considerably to increase the appropriation towards the main s road to the Lakes, both by way'©f Naseby 'and Roxburgh ; that portion of the road extending from Clyde to Qtieenstown especially requires to be rendered safe for carriage traffic." We hope the Council will, as a mark of the appreciation of the necessity for a large expenditure on the road mentioned by His Honor, deal in a liberal spirit in the matter. After the reading of one or two messages from the Superintendent, and the receipt of some petitions, Mr Thomson gave notice that he would next •day ask —" Why the Hon. John Bathgate, who as Provincial Solicitor is ex officio a member of the Executive Council, had not taken his seat on the Executive Benches." The Provincial Seci-etary gave notice that 'he would next day move—" That in the •opinion of this Council it is desirable to establish a Grammar School at Queenstown." Mr Fish, next sitting day, to move Reply "to His Honor's Address ; and also notices of motion for the abolition of toll bars near Dunedin city, and for the future that all 'Government advertisements for sale of land and for public works be advertised in the public papers, as well as the Gazette. Various other notices of motion were given; and the Provincial Secretary laid on the table a number of Bills, which were read a first time. The Council adjourned a few minutes after 1 o'clock till 2 p.m. next day. Wednesday, May.7. The Speaker took the chair at 2 o'clock. After petitions and notices of motion had ''been disposed of, Mr Thomson asked his question regarding the Provincial Solicitorship, and after discussion on the subject regarding points of ■order, Mr Tolmie said : In reply, I will just say that the Hon. Mr Bathgate, being no longer Provincial Solicitor, has not taken his seat on the Executive Benches. Some sparring having taken place between Mr Thomson and Mr Bathgate regarding the appointment of the Committee of Reference, in consequence of some remarks which fell from Mr Thomson regarding the hon. gentleman last mentioned, Mr Fish moved the Reply to His Honor's Address, remarkable for its brevity, and spoke to the motion at considerable length, concluding with the remark that he believed the present Executive possessed the confidence of the community, and he also felt sure that of tire Council also. Mr Reid replied to Mr Fish's speech, and snoke in very decided terms of the action of His Honor the Superintendent re the dismissal of the late Executive. He moved as an amendment on the Address in Reply—"That this Council is of opinion that the appointment of the gentlemen at present occupying the Government Benches, and their retention of office, is in direct opposition to the system of responsible government sanctioned by the Council ) and this Council hereby records its protest against any Government being appointed or holding office under such circumstances." He would state that it was with some degree of pain that he undertook the proposing oi this amendment. It was against his own personal feelings that he moved it, but it was at the request of a large number of the members of the House. He intended to keep out -of sight that he had to some degree been mixed up in transactions that had occurred, and to deal with the matter in a purely constitutional aspect —an aspect which he thought was the only one from which the Council ■could view the matter. He would not now advert to the circumstances which led to the dismissal of the late Government further than saving this : That assuming the Superintendent had good grounds for dismissing the individual termed the head of the late Government —assuming there were good grounds —and he did not admit that there were good —he contended that no reasons had shown why the sins which should have boon borne by that individual alone, should have been visited on his colleagues, who were also appointed by the majority of this Council. He considered the only and propel course under the circumstances, having due regard to the fact that the Council had determined, whether wisely or not, that the Executive of the day should be constituted, and Ihe business conducted, on the responsible system —he considered that the only propel i ourse was to have relegated to his own col-

leagues the duty of re-constructing the Executive. If that course did not meet with the approval of the Superintendent, there was another legitimate and proper course open to him, namely, immediately and forthwith, on the appointment of that Executive, to summon the Provincial Council. But that course had not been adopted. Let him take a case, which he trusted was not very far out of point, in order to show the position this Council should take on the question. The Council was aware of what had transpired in regard to the Colonial Government: that the Hon. Mr Waterhouse had felt it to be his duty to resign. What would members of the Executive say if his Excellency, instead of asking Messrs Pox or Vogel to undertake in the meantime to reconstruct the Ministry, had sent for Mr Stafford and asked him to do so, more especially when matters of vital importance to the Colony were to come on forthwith ; and furthermore, if it were done in the face of a request from the Assembly that it be called together? Would the Assembly resent such action as this ? There could be no disputing that they would, notwithstanding that the Governor held a less responsible position to the Assembly than the Superintendent did to the Provincial Council. . .

lution, a result which he did not at all anticipate, it would affirm one of the most dangerous principles that had ever been adopted. The Executive that the Council left in power it should find in power. If there were necessity for his being dismissed, there was none for dismissing his colleagues, and if there were a necessity for their being dismissed, there was a necessity for convening the Council. Mr Lumsden seconded Mr Reid's amendment.

The gentlemen occupying the Government Benches were evidently very much taken aback at a want of confidence motion being proposed in such a summary manner, and Mr Tolmie said the amendment proposed by Mr Reid had quite taken the Government by surprise, and he moved that the House adjourn until two o'clock next day. This was agreed to, and the Council then arose.

Thursday, May 8,

The Speaker having taken the chair, the debate on Mr Reid's amendment was resumed. :

Mr Tolmie was the first to speak. He thought himself and colleagues were to be thanked for stepping into the breach, and conducting the affairs of the Province. And since they had taken office they had done their best. It Was plain that the cause of complaint against the Administration was that they had deemed it expedient to appoint a Waste Lands Board before the Council met. He, however, appealed to the common sense of honorable members, and asked them if it was not far better to appoint those gentleman, as circumstances had arisen, than in the midst of a hot debate, and the personal squabble then existing between the Superintendent and the Provincial Secretary. He thought the appointment of those gentlemen constituting the Waste Lands Board would bear the closest scrutiny. Mr Reid : Will the honorable member be good enough to explain the personal quarrel which he says existed between me and the Superintendent ? I am not aware of any.— (Hear, hear.) Mr Tolmie replied that he certainly was not a dictionary, but as far as he could guess it was neither more or less than that. It arose out of the Superintendental election, and continued down to the present time ; and it must be patent to everyone who gave the matter the slightest consideration, that it was impossible for the affairs of the country to be properly conducted if the Superintendent and Mr Reid attempted to do it conjointly, because they had not, and would not agree, consequently the affairs of the country would suffer As regarded the Government holding their seats, he might say that they had no desire to do so. He took office as a matter of duty, and when the Council desu-ed him to resign he should be happy to do so. Dr Webster moved that all the words of Mr Reid's amendment after the word "That," be struck out, and that the following be inserted : —" That this Council do not approve the act?on of His Honor tire Superintendent in dismissing the late Executive, and appointing another without immediately calling the Council together, and while having confidence in the present Executive, think from the mode of the appointment, and that in the interests of the Province, and to settle the question, they should resign."—(Laughter and applause.)

Mr John M'Lean seconded Mr Webster's motion.

Mr Tolmie moved an adjournment ; but it was opposed by the Opposition, and he then withdrew it.

Mr Cutten then spoke. He Went into the Constitutional aspect of the question. One of the chief principles of Responsible Government was that where there was an elective body, that body should rule the country by means of the Executive of the day, or some other individuals whom it could trust during the intervals of meeting, in order to see that its policy was earned out. What would be the use of their gathering together, if after discussing and struggling to come to a decision upon certain questions, one individual, after they turned their backs, had a right to turn out the guardians constituted by the Council, and put in some one representing the minority, who had objected to eveiything resolved upon during the session ? This was the position the present Executive occupied. It was all very well to say the majority was

visiting the sins of the Superintendent upon the gentlemen on the Government benches, but it was a constitutional maxim that the King could do no wrong, and they were only acting constitutionally in punishing the Executive for the sins of the Superintendent. Again, those gentlemen had assisted the Superintendent in doing the wrong, for if they had not accepted office the Superintendent could not have changed the actual spirit of the last Executive. No doubt it was possible that they could find a man who, with an efficient staff, would be able to manage the affairs of the whole Colony, and do it very cheaply too. But if they wanted to maintain anything like self-government, they must have some form of Executive by which the Council could carry out its wishes. If they did not, as a Council, immediately turn those gentlemen out of office they would be abandoning the principle of constitutional government. Of course the Superintendent had power to appoint and dismiss his Executive. Undoubtedly the Queen of Great Britain had power to dismiss her Ministers, tod she might do so in defiance of Parliament, and she might, if she liked, set up a civil war. The Queen had the power, but not the right to do so, under the Constitution. In this case, the Superintendent here had no right, but he had the power, and he exercised it. However much he (Mr Cutten) might regret the loss of so excellent an Executive, it was their own fault, for they had got in at the window, instead of by the door. When they gained the Government benches in a more constitutional manner, perhaps they might have his support. Mr Armstrong desired to make a few remarks as to the reasons which led him to vote as he intended. It was from no feeling against the Government, for he felt that the Government had done more for the up-coun-try districts than any that preceded them, but there was a constitutional question at issue. He believed that the Constitution had been violated, and he would vote against the Government on account of the high respect he entertained for the gentlemen composing it. He remembered his Honor the Superindent remarking some years ago that he could carry out the affairs of the Province to the satisfaction of the people \a ith the assistance of four or five clerks, and that he did not require the Provincial Council to direct him at all. Now, he fancied that his Honor had put those gentlemen on the Government benches in the position of those four or five clerks he talked about—(applause)—and he (Mr Armstrong) wanted, so far as his vote went, to relieve them-from that humiliating position. He thought it was a matter of perfect indifference which amendment was voted for.— (" No, no !" from the Opposition benches.) Well, he would vote for Mr Beid's amendment.—(Applause. )

Mr Tolmie said that instead of wasting the time of the House, the Government had determined to tender their resignation. He was proceeding to move an adjournment, but the Speaker ruled him not in order. Mr Stout said the position assumed by the Government was an unusual and cowardly one.

Mr Bathgate asserted fearlessly and without any manner of doubt that not only was his Honor legally justified in what he had done, but that no other constitutional course was open to him. If there were a dissolution, the country would be in favour of his Honor.

Mr Bastings then moved the adjournment. He intimated that the Government had tendered their resignations, being thoroughly convinced that the Superintendent, in not calling the Council together after their appointment, had acted wrongly, and the Government, being assured of that, felt it to be wrong to occupy the time of the House in useless discussion. He now moved an adjournment, to allow those who brought on this state of things to make some arrangements for the future.

Mr Reid, in opposing the adjournment, said that the Government, instead of censuring the Superintendent and resigning, should abide by the decision of the House.

A division was taken on the question of adjournment, whereupon Mr Bastings' motion was lost by J3 to 25. The announcement was received with applause bv the Opposition, and the Government and their supporters then left the Chamber. The division list was as follows:

AYES, 13: Bastings, Bathgate, Browne, Daniel, Fish, Hiokey, M'Arthiir, M'Dermid, M'Glashan, M'Lean, Tolmie, Turnbull, and Webster.

Noes, 25; Allan, Armstrong, Barr, Bradshaw, Brown, Clark, Cutten, Duncan, Green, Hallenstein, Henderson, Butcheson, Innes, Lumsden, Menzies, Mervyn, M'Kenzie, Mollison, Reid, Shand, Smith, Stout, Sumpter, Thomson, Wood. Mr Itoid's amendment was then carried on the voices ; and the House adjourned.