Mr. Macandrew, M.H.R., at Port Chalmers.

Clutha Leader, Volume II, Issue 54, 22 July 1875, Page 7

Mr. Macandrew, M.H.R., at Port Chalmers.

«(From * Daily Times') ' Mr Mflniindpa^, M.H.lWaddressed 'his coustitueritMft "pMMHilmeps ob Thursday OTeraft. .M^Hft'Kinnon, the Mayorf owapieS jp^Bair, arid there was a large &tt£ifKm9y Mr Macandrew, who "was greeted with applause, after a, few introductory remarks, said— As you are aWare, I 'have 'been a steady supporter of Public Works and immigration Policy, and until he announced his intention of changing the 'constitution of the Northern portion of the Colony, I Was & staunch supporter of Mr Vogel's Government. When I^PY that I was a steady supporter of the Public Works and Immigration Policy, I may say also that all along I have differed 'from file mode in which that policy has been carried out. I was of opinion from the -outset that it would have been more and more economically administered by the local Government "than by the Central Government, and I have seen no reason whatever to -change my opinion. Gentlemen, in holding this* opinion, 1 do so altogether irrespective of \he men who may have "administered from time to time heretofore, and who may hereafter administer the affairs df the Central Government. i It seems to me— let these men be the j best and most patriotic men that the Colony can produce — it appears to me in the nature ,of things, and in the 'peculiar circumstances of the Colony, that public works can. be best carried *on by those on the spot, who are elected by, and responsible to, and, iv fact, more directly under the eye of, the public, than under a distant Government at Wellington. — (Applause.) In my opinion, at least, the public works could be better administered by '•those directly under the eyes of the people, whose money is expended, ahd who ultimately will have to pay the piper. Then, as regards immigration, I have thought that it was a grand mistake all along for the Colony to have taken this matter in hand ; and I "think, in our Province for example, that the thing ' would have been far better done — there would have been a far better selection of suitable immigrants had the money been handed over to the Provincial Government, and ihe money expended by it ; and in saying this, I wish it to. be understood that I do npt seek to censure in any "the AgentiGeneral, Dr : Featherston, than whom I doubt if there is any man in the Colony equally suitable to hold ~ the appointment I was very glad to hear that lately a very great improvement is taking place in the class of immigrant that we are receiving. But, gentlemen, it must be borne in mind that the Agent-General has a very difficult task to perform, and while it may be eysy-f — a man to execute an •order for Vj^vv bags of flour or '20,000 bricks in six months, it -would be difficult to execute an order for the •selection of a suitable class of imnii-•g-rants in that time. I daresay — and 'Captain Logan will bear me out in that —-we are having a portion of unsuitable material among us at all events. Well, gentlemen, it may be asked, if such was my opinion in regard to the policy, ihow can I be said to be such a warm -supporter of it ? Well, I will tell you. It was a question of immigration or no immigration — it was a question of public works or no public works, and 'rather than forego either, I was content to accept both with all the disadvantages to which I have referred. Up to j "the timeout which Mr Yogel obtained his seat in the Cabinet, the policy of the Golony was neither to go in for immigration and public works itself nor to permit the Provinces to do so ; in fact, the Colonial policy was a regular dog-in-the-manger policy, and when, in 1870 I tiiiuk ; it was that, under the influence ;of the genius of Mr Yogel, a " cimng* came u?er : : the of our dream," I believe, he was as anxious •as I was that, the administration of his policy shoula be in the hands of the. local Governments. • However, he found, and so did I, that to insist upon: such a condition would have been fatal! to the yolicf ; in fact,, it ..would have: been rejected. At that ..time . •parties' were "very/ equally divided ins -the AssemM^the. Uentralists were deter~ "oiinea^^^^^the very. smell of Provinciat£§«Hi|Ehey went in "for the policy Il§S||lS s ov ?n sake, but because they v saw or fancied they Baw aether nail in the PromdMSHKI and perhaps the . last! In fact|aßM»nt in for it,.not thjit they lovßßHpicy less, but that they x hated ttu^^^p^es more* Now there |K,was not f^Hill est 6 of carrying jrgiat |^S^pH|» i% &d borne on the H-SS^ 6 of i^lSBKt was to be.Qolpnially '■■"■*- * tusterroPWfell 1 then, gentlemen, '*«i tesL for .the .Public Works and; , P°^ c y> Which although ' not (*fr|afmff;out, in my opinion at feast, to -ihj&k&l advantage, .-yrill, I. Ibelieve, in sjl^lf ell its .disadvantages,. jesult. in enormous benefits to New Zealand.' '' One qf .the xnost.i^porterit 'questions # which '^was^disc^smd.^nng.j^ej.iast three or four .sessions -of. .the - Asse^bly^ - was the ' Question of -Education. . Itwas *proposed-^it_;waß attempted — 'to hanil .-.tovey . the education "q'f f the T people to ,the 'Central Government. /Well, of, course, r as you are aware, I resisted that* proposal, believing as I do that tb|s> as i -most other i%ti>3rs, is best conducted

"- and 3ikj-ily~to be best m^naged^y.uie.. Pr^vimfial Cq^ncp^thatisf^"fofSW the I people themselves. - 5 I -trnmc, .jso\ long as tile province.? do their ,duty in this mjatte?, A |bat it p : yery. Un#ise tpf inteferej with them, At me present* time, Tarn free to admit that-as Education isja question that ideeply affects the interests of the /whole* 'colony; tbat it would |be the. duty of the Colonial . Parliament; in the event of any proviricej failing to db ..its fluty, to it. to do so, ev^n if r^ces^ary to tar thei defaulting district; 'Mat I object 16 \ altogether is the idea of the people oft Auckland, for example, being. taxed to : educate my children inOtago, and ; vice versa! And, gentlemen, if *tiie time should -Come when or territorial revenue will be numbered among the things that were— --which undoubtedly will be the'case as soon as, of shortly" after; you abolish the North Island.. provinces, when the time comes that our, territorial revenue shall be numbered among the things that, were, qtit" of which at present our public schools are sup-ported—it-it evident that we shall then have to go in for direct special taxation. When that, time shalLcome J. ,- shall object tp the people of Fort Chalmers being taxed to educate children in Dunedin, in Invercargill, or elsewhere. Then .another very important question which occupied a good deal of attention for the last two sessions, or three sessions I may ;say, was the Licensing questipn. '1,451t it*, my ''duty to vote against it I know th ere is a good deal of difference on the point, and I should like my constituents to understand "my views on the subject — I voted against Mr Fox's motion much against my own incjiuation. Que. cpifld npt help admiring the eloquence and being influenced by the earnestness whfch Mr Fox brought to bear on fche subject. In fact, I remember on one occasion saying to myself, "Almost thou persuadest me|to be a total abstainer !" (Laughter and applause). But in the matter of .legislation, I take it that we must be influenced by our jugdm en t rather than our feelings, arid somehow my judgment told me that, great as are the evils which are the result of the abuse of intoxicating liquors^' that those evils are not to be cured by Acts of Parliament. (Applause.) I think that morarsuasion is more likely to put a stop to inebriety than Acts of parliament, and I helieve tbat the Good Templar movement, which I am glad to ( learn has taken deep root here, is far more likely to do good in that direction, viz., the direction of sobriety, than a cart load of statutes, I don't know if I would have any great objection to the permissive clauses of the Bill had they been confined to future licenses — that is to say, not to licenses already granted — but I must say that I consider it unfair that men who.it may be, have embarked their all in hotel property should be suddenly sent through the Insolvency Court, and receive no compensation for having their business destroyed. It seems to me that the most effective way in which the Legislature can intefere is to treat drunkenness as a misdemeanor, to treat the habitual drunkard as a criminal, who should be put under restraint, and to punish those who supply intoxicating liquor to a man already intoxicated. Another matter which excited a good deal of attention last/ session was the Forest Trees Bill. This was a Bill which was introduced by the Hon. Sir Julias Yogel for the purpose of creating State forests. . Had ; the Bill confined itself to the conservation of existing forests, I have no doubt that I should have supported it. As it was, I felt it to be my duty to vote against it for various reasons. One of these reasons was that it would have involved a very large annual expenditure, and also an expensive department of Government — an additional department— and of departments I think we have got quite enough already. Another reason why I Toted against it was that I question much the_propriety of the State going l] into the planting of trees anymore than : into the growing ot corn or any other commodity. I suppose no one can deny ; that the growing of corn and wool are , as necessary for the good of humanity,; and yet we would not think of the' State going into agriculture or wool-; growing. I think it is^far better to leave these things to private enterprise,! I think we have sufficient timber in the! province now to meet 'pur own require-J ments, and supply a very large article of export foi 1 many centuries to come, and I am glad to. know that tihere are: men in this colony at least who are so; alive to. their interests as to go into the planting, of forest .trees. rf I b^l/eve there is nd'" better way of providing Tor the future or for your families. A»s you are . ;aware, t the. Assembly meets /next . weeic for the despatch of 'business. What. .that business is to be, it is impossible for me at- least, tp.. conjecture j » bus [L; pnly ; Jiope, , .that the Assembly wifl'be content' with' as little business as -possible] for,* if eVer, tiiere was a country overburdened and overwhelmed ■ "with I legislation, I, .cphfess it is ' the ''dolon^ of Raw Zealand. lAnd.l shtave Jong^ thought "its would/^e ftyerj, happy thing if the Colonial rariiahienV'bbuld make up its mind to" go to *leep -for 'iwbihV taking" care-iri^the meantime to provide - r fd"r payment of the public c-rtditor. cr Ifuthe public creditor was duly fjjjjyifJled for, I don't know if We W-ese/uto wake np to-morrow morning Ari4 find that the Assembly had gone to the " tomb of the Capulets," but that

. -Jg-a^JljqulrJ^find New Zealand where it ;if "We- sTScj}X^find r ii"witK" this ad- ! fantage, thi|'|we"H should have from a -y6arto expend ■^mffffrentol^ Otagoj: Last year M 'cpntQ^edvto ' the Gfeneral Gbyj^jo^nlti^^ror^vely. 1 man, the province, •and out of /this ,we' received back the munificent suni of: f6?s a-tieadV ;Fif teeri shillings a head put of £5. And with .^/?;' 1 I^ S a "^ ea^ the province is supposed I t6 ' lnform '&?l '$& primary functions of [ * Government, that is to say,, to provide |. for thjt£ protection of life and property a-ad 8p forth. Supposing that we had "received the balance, I helieve that we wbujd have performed all that the (sen]eral Government performs for us <quite as well, if not much better, and •have had a large surplus for expending on railways, roads, bridges,, and other. works,. 'And .the- same remarks apply, *of course, to a greater or lesser extent' toi the other provinces. Gentlemen, I know very wefrthat I shall be ••" scarified" for uttering such a sentiment, but in my opinion it is the Colonial Parliament that is eating. into the very vitals of the colony.— (A Voice : It depends how far back you go.) I am taking it altogether from the commencement I say that it is the Colonial Parliament that is eating into the very vitals of the colony j and I remember some years ago Mr Stafford stated in his place in the House of Representatives that he could knock £200,000 a-year off the estimates without prejudicing- the public service. And I say if something of the kind is not done that, notwithstanding the buoyancy of New Zealand, the day is not far distant when it will take us all our time to keep übove water and float. Well, the General Government gets the lion's share of the revenue, and the Provincial Governments have to do the lion's share of work. One of the weakest points in the Colonial Parliament of late years has been the want of an organised Opposition. Unless there is a healthy Opposition, I do not know if it is too much to say that no responsible Government can go on.long* — for many. years. Of course representative Govern mentis Government by party, and, as it has been well said, party is the price we must pay for our liberty. Whether or not there will be such an Opposition next session, I cannot tell. I see by the papers that, for some time past, Sir George Grey has been in correspondence with the view of forming' an organised Opposition, and my name is mentioned, but I can say that, and in so far as lam concerned, there is no truth in it. In so far as lam concerned, it depends npon the action of the Government whether or not, next session, '. I shall be found in the cold shade of opposition. Most certainly if .the Go. vernment insists on changing the con- , stitution of a portion of the colony, I think the chances are, the certainty is, that I shall be found in the opposition lobby upon every question affecting tbe existence of the Ministry — (Applause) Gentlemen, the honorable Mr Yogel, last session, on the spur of the moment, brought up proposals for the abolition of the North Island provinces — -proposals w-hich I thought at the time, and which I still think, were very unwise, very ill-timed, very inexpedient, involving as they do, and must of necessity involve in carrying* out, a still further spoliation of the Southern provinces. The ostensible reasons for submitting these proposals were . that the North Island provinces were unable to provide for themselves — that is to say, that they were unable to provide for Police, Gaols, Hospitals, education, roads, and bridges, and, in fact, all the necessary functions of Government. Another plea was that the policy— the administration in regard to all these matters — would be very much more cheaply conducted by the General Government than by the various Provincial Governments. My own feelings judging from my experience, is that the exact reverse of this will be found to be fiie case. How much do you think is the actual cost of administration, and of governing, and of legislating, in the four provinces of Auckland, Wellington, Hawke's Bay, and Taranaki 1 The whole cost of the. four Provincial Councils, four Executive Councils, and four Superintendents, is under L 14,000 a year, figures which I have no hesitation /in saying will be doubled if the Provincial functions are undertaken by tbe Central Government. Well, gentlemen, the Central Government says: '-If ,we have to find the means for these operations we are better to take its -ad-' : ministration into our hands." That is .a very plausible argument. But, assuming these provinces are in the posi-tion-that they, cannot provide for. their own Government, will .the mere fact of their being handed over to the Colonial , Government supply them with means ? Most certainly -riot. t And I say again —and I wonder that the people in the South are so blind as not to see it — the same also is to enable those": Provinces to participate in the 'land fund of the Middle Island. Well, that is substantial revenue with which t they are to be etidbwed, and it is all perfect moonshine to tell me that the land' fund is to r be localised-p-rthat the Uompactpf 1856 is- ; to' be. stereotyped. Ask '. the Auckland aboHtionists what think they, of this, and--, they wiU ( laugh ; you -to scorn. Qeptiemen, . 1. / don't believe .that, the provinces in.the, North j^laiid are iri^the abject position which seems toLibe, impli'edi''" T'believethese^ 'provinces, barTmg the revenue, are in as good,

and some are in ac better, as , regards "Ourselves. Andj even inland revenue, the province of Wellington at least makes a very respectable show. Then ' the question is, What is to be done with ! them 1 Well, gentlemen, what I would dq^ .with them/is^is. I should .leave them;to/; tneir own^deyices^andL'giye them; 'a;.;:fair~-propo^ ! own revenues. . n^&^XQt''j^^^^ss\ y of Auckland/ wbich/ /next 'to/ this-provihce," cqnti'ibutiesr m^t^arg^lyT; to the Colonial revenue, ;and "^nlylgpt . back 15s-a head,.pr.,one-,sixth/%f ?, whatsit contributed. Would anyone tellAmej if the province of Auckland ireceiyed ! back only half of what it contributed,, would it not -be. able .to ./perform / its functions/and even what the/; General Government is. now performing for tbem ? /I believe that most thoroughly. Gentlemen dependon it what we ought to go in for is h.ohie rule — -home rule with a federation between- the ■ two 'islands, which would deal with kalf-a-dozen subjects that could be dealt with better unitedly than separately. If the' people in the' North Island desire to place themselves under control of tbe Central Government at Wellington I have no objection, provided we in the South are allowed to manage our own affairs as we like, and have our Government how and where we choose. We must remember tbat this province of Otago has a very large territorial revenue, and we have in prospect a very large revenue to come from.our railways. T believe Otago and Canterbury are the two parts of the colony in which railways for some years to come ' will be really productive. And I believe that the only way of securing this large territorial revenue and this railway revenue to ourselves —I say that "the only way of securing these is to leave the provinces as they are, and to go in for insular separation. You may depend on it, gentlemen, that, so sure as the sun shines in the heavens, so sure will the abolition of the South Island provinces follow that of the North, and' then good bye to the splendid revenue which would keep us for all time coming, and make our roads and bridges, or except such a portion ofit as the exigencies of the colony and the generosity of the 70 men at Wellington may spare towards us. I believe that I bave pretty well occupied you, "for about three-quarters of an hour. But the sum and substance of ttie whole matter is, in my opinion, that the country is. being most, expensively governed. I believe the ship o: the .State is altogether over-manned ; and in order eventually to reduce that expenditure ifc is not by reducing* Provincial Governments that you can do it, but by dispensing with, or, at all events, greatly curtailing the Central Government. That has been the conviction of my mind for the lasc 20 years> Even in 18-i6, when I sat in the Assembly, I remember making it a cardinal point in supporting* the then Government that they should limit tbe expenditure of the Colonial Government to L 50,000 a year. In fact," it was seen at the time that the Federal Government could be carried on for L 50,000 a year. But what does it cost now ? Over L 500,000 a year. Gentlexen, I feel pursuaded that, if we are to go in for constitutional changes—they should be in the direction of the separation oi the two islands. If there is i.uy circumstance in my life that I most, regret it is that in 1864= or 1805, I forget which, when a movement for that separation was put en foot, (and/singular to say, the moving spirit in that movement was Sir Julius Yogel that now is), and I believe your lmoabTe servant is really the cause of having it knocked on tbe head. If I bad only forseen what I see now I would have acted differently. I remember there was a monster meeting at the Princess theatre, and I happened to be | in town on the day of the meeting, and was dragged into it. I never found j myself ontlie stage of a theatre before or sinee — -yes, I have been since— at that time I proposed a motion, and made a speech. The motion appeared to commend itselfj and was carried with great acclamation, and the whole thing* dropped from that day. I feel per- 1 suaded that so long as federalism remains in the present state at Wellington, composed of the , heterogeneous elements of the two islands, and' opposed to each other, that there is not the slightest hope of reducing expendi-. ture— expenditure which is beyond control of tbe representatives of the people, audit is for the people themselves, when ■an election takes place really to 'study these matters, and to make themselves masters^ of them. It is a very" heartless thing to take part in politics just now, owing to the neglect of people in these i matters. Making money is their'occxi- I patiqn, and if we could get the people j to take -an interest, and to bring it to the next hustings, we might get sepa-raiion-i-separation of the twojslands. . Several questions were then asked and answered. These chiefly had re- j ference io Otago Harbor Board matters. 7 - -

At tbe close a unanimous vote of confidence was" passed,and a .vote qf thanks to "the" Chairman terminated .the. pro--ceedino-s:. O • . ... v