Labour Member Sensationally Interposes In Debate

Chronicle (Levin), 18 August 1949, Page 8

Labour Member Sensationally Interposes In Debate

WELLINGTON, August 17. The gallery in the House of Represen tatives which is reserved for membei> of the Legislative Council to enablc them to hear debates in the Lowe: House, was unoccupied at 7.30 tonighi' when the Leader of the Opposition, Mi Holland rose to move the second read ing of his Legislative Council Abolition Bill. Later, however, one meinb,er oi the Council entered the gallery. Mr Ilolland said the Coun&il as now constituted, performed *no usel'ul fune tion. It initiated no legislation, did 1101 really revise legislation from the Lowe House and did not prevent great chan ges in administration of the eountry': alfairs. It performed 110 useful work Its abolition was in the National Par ty 's policy and had always been in tin policy of'the Labout Party. Appoin tees "to the Ccuineil were once suppose to be chosen for their independen. views but today one had little chanyi of appointment unless one was £h right eolour. The majority of the pre sent Councillors made no secret of thei. Labour Party affiliatiou. That was al right, but if at tlie eud of this yeai 1 there were a change of Government, 11 would be unthinkable that a majorit\ in the Council should vote against legislation the National Party had beei elected to enact. \ Mr Holland said the member fo Roskill had promised to vote for thi bill -and the member for Waimarino, who fiad promised in 1917 to vote fo. the Council 's abolition if the eonstitu tional difficulties was removed, wa: looking for a way out. "I knovv wher. the member for JRoskell will be. I knov where the member for Waimarino should be and members for NortL Shore, Mt. Albert and the rest, " saiu Mr Holland." Government voice: And you knov where you liave told the rtiember foi Invercargill to be. Mr Holland said every Opposition member would vote for the Bill. Mr Fraser said the Leader of the Op position had raised so many uneertaiu ties and also possibilities Which eveu the Government had never considereti before. He then nioved an amendmeiii which, in effect, would postpone consid eration of the Bill for three nionths. Opposition Voice: Same old dodge. Mr Holyoake: Hoary with age. Mr Fraser: It;s just as time honour ed as the Legislative Council. Mr Sheat: What about a referendum? Mr Fraser said there was no use in prolonging the discussion. He had ILs Eened to the Leader of the Opposition with great interest bnt there was one constitutional point he (Mr Hollaiul.i did not solve. What would happen ii the Opposition became the Governm,eni and introduced drastic ehanges such as altering soeiai seeurity, conditions ot work or any of the good things the Labour Government .had done? That was the question that the people would like auswered. How did the Opposition pro pose to get the Bill -passed by the Upper House? No Government could stand or tolerate on Upper House that frustrated the will of the Lower House and 110 Governor-.General today would re tuse the request of a Prime Minister who went to hirn and said there wa. a hostile majority in the Upper House and that he wanted H majority there which would conform to the will of the people. If by accident the Opposition did become Government, that would Lk ihe method that would liave to be ad opted. Mr Fraser said that in spite of fouj members of the Opposition holding the view that, with a single chamber ieg • islature, there should be safeguards, the Leader of the Opposition had taken the risk with the Bill. In other xwords, he was ready to .empty out the bab\ with the bathwater. Again he would say how he envied the iron discipline of the Leader of the Opposition and the way he eontrolled his colleagues. Mr Holland: How would you like to have that loyalty ou your side? jV^r Fraser: I've got loyalty. The Prime Minister said he was sure that the Leader of the Opposition was envious of the Queensland Government which had introduced the eountry quota. Would the Opposition, if it becaniq

the Government,, .xestore . the qudta ih New Zealhttd? ' ' - 4 Mr Holland: If we become the Govern ment we will restore the unahimous' reeommendations of the last two representation commissions. JMr Fraser: "That's heading for , the jungle. Mr Fraser said that the Bill had no ehance of passing the Upper House and apart from ak'discussion of academic points, it was .just a waste of time. Mr R. M. Algie (Remuera) said a .single chamber without safeguards pr^seemed the easiest way to siligle party Government — -totalitarianism. That was why he had always advoeated the need t'or checks and balances in the. legislative system. A single chamber miglit. perptuate itself. The present Government had altered the -eleetoral law once .n its favour and might alter it in whoJt on another occasion. Mr Algie said he himself would have liked the opportun ity to proponnd a reforin of the Legis ,ative Council but lackihg that oppor tunity, he would vote for the Bill as oringing him a step nearer to that op portunity. ^Mr W. A. Bo.dltin (Otago Centrai) said the government hiembers" were lighting no-t for reform but for a vested interest. The Prime Ministe'r had .realised that sonie of the'younger memoers of his Party might comniit the folly of voting- for the Bill which eni - bodied a prineiple which the Labour Party had championed for years. The Prime Minister hkd therefore taken the precaution of moving an amendmeiii. which would ensure his men railying oehind him. Mr McLagan asked if the Upper House should put a bar and eheek against the' good legislation the Labour Government had passed. Opposition voice: Why don't you clean up the waterfroht? Mr McLagan said the Upper House was more widely representative now of the community than it had even been oefore. It was obvious that the Opposition wanted an Upper House that contained fewer Labour supporters. Mr McLagan did not speak for his r'ull half-hour and at 1U.25- p.m. resunieu ais seat, saying that he would give the Opposition the opportunity of partioipating in the vote. At this point, however, Mr Kearins rose and took the Government wmp.. and Prime Minister and Mr McLagan oy surprise. He said it would be linporcant for the House to know that the matter of abolishing the Upper House vvas under consideration hy the Govern ment and had been so for some months. As it was a constitutional matter, no private member cotild possibly bring down implementing legislation. Even if the vote was carried, no one knew oetter than the Leader of the Opposition that it had no possibility of beeoming law. The oiiiy way for the Bill to get past another place Was for the Government to initiate the legislation.it would not he his fault if the Government did not bring down a Bill. it was just making a joke of the whole think now and he was sure that the Govern ment Bill would he supported by the rank and file. • Mr Kearins was intdrriipted by Mi Speaker calling for order to quell the mounting hum from both sides of the Ghamber and almost immediately ht said that the time had come for him co adjourn the House. "The debate will be set do\vn . foi resumption next Wednesday evening, ' said Mr Bpeaker. The House then adjourned at 10.30 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. tomorrow.