INSIDE STORY OF BOOKMAKING

Chronicle (Levin), 8 March 1947, Page 7

INSIDE STORY OF BOOKMAKING

- ?res ^ Associa.ion

. HOW DIVIDENDS FOUND OUT IS SECRET

By Telegrapn-

WELLINGTON, Mar. 7. Evidence in support of the case for Ihe licensing of boohmakers for handiing oll'-course. betting was giyen,today belore the Gaming Commission by the seerelary of ihe Dominion Sportsmen's Association (Mr. H. II. CJegg). He said Ihe association had four branches/ and its meiubersliip, though it fluetuated, had at times been uj) tp 400. No betting was carried . on in office • premises. That was a rigid rule. The association, as a body, was nofe con cerued with betting operations. Bookmakers at present wero not just layers oi totalisator odds. Mr. lleenau: Does anybody make a sti'aight out book now? .Mr. Clegg: Yes. On a race like the New Zealand Cup. There was one when Bruce wou at the last Wellington meeting, but it was the exception rather tluin the rule. To Mr. Leieesber (for the Sportsmen's Association;, Mr. Clegg said he disagreod eutirely with an assertion by Ihe Racing Conference that odds on double charts were almost always less tinui an ail up bet would yieid. There was a demand today for a eoncession double under which the two lirst were paid 75 per cent. of the odds, a iirst and a second 15 per cent., and lirst and third .10 per cent. To Mr. Donnelly (for the Racing Coht'erence), witness said his association was not asking for licences to bet on courses, but only olf tlie courses. He denicd that it would be a temptation to a bookmaker standing to lose £4000 or £5000 by a certain horse winning tlie second leg of a double to offer inducements to joclteys or owners to liave that possibility removed. Asked if'the association had disciplinary powers, witness said it certainlv had, and recently a inau was rel'uscd l'urther niembership after a complaint that he had declined to pay a certain bet. Mr. Donnelly: How aoes your association get results and dividends to its members? . Mr. Clegg: Through the telephone. it comes to me and I put it through. Mr. juonnelly: How do you get it off the course? Mr. Ciegg: That is a secret. Mr. Donnelly: A secret to you only? Mr. Clegg: Members of the association know how it is done. ('ontinuing his evidence Mr. II. H. Clegg said there would be the possibiiily of odtls being reduced if there were only oue bookmaker in a small ii)wn. With good telephone connections a bellor could lay with an operator in another town. llundreds of doubles charts from Wellington went ail over New Z^alaXd. Mr. C. S. Thomas, for the Trotting ( 'on ferenee, asked: With 25 bookmakefs now in (Stratford but only oue licensed under your scheme, who will the publie bet with if Ihe r.umaining:. bookmakers deeided to stay in Ihe business" and pay Detter odds than tlie licensed maui Wiuicss rcplied tliat he thought hettors would prcfor to bet with the licensed anui. M r. Thomas: Tlie- odds given here are sUtrv ation. compared to those given for I doiibles in lAustralia? Witness: Somotimes there are scores of liorses on Australian cliarts and tlie odds range from l(i to 10,00U. Witness did not think tliat the Success of the scheme he proposed would mean a diversion of money from the totalisator. if so much money is roming for a ]>articular horse it will ti itd its uay baek to the machine, he explained. . M r. Thomas: 8o you will use the totalisator when it suits you and work agaiust it when it does not? Witness: I liave never thought of it as working agaiust' the totalisator. To Dr. M azengarb, for the Associated Churches, witness said his association had a staff of two in Wellington, live in Auckland, two in Christchurch and two in Dunedin. There were also two field agents regularly and four or live casually, also six outside distributors in Wellington. The total eiit[doyees would be about 30 and tlie ail nual wages bill about £5000. His assoeiatiou rented four telephones in iVellinglon, four or iive in Auckland, two or three caelt in Dunedin and ' 'h risl t-li nrch. 'J'lie telephones were unlisted because they did not wani punters always riugiiig for dividends. i'he .">3/" members would all liave telephones. Without tliem neither the association uor ntembers eould provide the service they did. illegal betting on horse racing was esl iinated at £24,000,000 yearly. He thought the. betting would retuain sta lioiiary at about £40,000,000 vearly it his scheme was adopted. That included aroimd £14,000,000 totalisator turiiover ile kuew of uo bookmakers with nine i elephones. Dr. Mazeugarb: Then wliv, if you sav betting will remain stationarv, did you provide in your scheme for license fees bascd on a scale up to nine telephones? Witness: 1 thought the business would go into legalised channels and some licensed men would want more telephones. The w-hole of the business of his j association,. witness added, was done by | telephone. The Wellington office spent j £5(1 liiont hlv on ' tolls. Dr. Mazengarb: Will your produce your last two montlis' tdll account? — Yes. ' . Witness said he was sure the depart ment Jtnetv what his association 's business was.

At least two association branches had direct lines to the broadcasting studios at Wellington and Christchurch. One of the staff of Radio 2ZB had approaehed him about the connections. The | association paid nothing for these telephones and the association neither paid nor was paid for the prlvilege ot the connections. II e thought anv other individual could get results from the courses.' Generallv speaking the results eame through quickly. If there was to be a delav, say a quarter of an hour, the i'fi.11 wns maiir- urgouf, "Nn reqtio.sf

made for a line until after >a race started. The association took a s^b^criber's cliance. Dr. Mazengarb: Whose desire is it that the results be broadoast early? Witness: Our members want it as soon as they can get it. They want to know tlieir liabilities at the earliest. Dr. Mazengarb: 8o tlie broadcasts really suit your members? Mr. Justice Einlay said' the explanation is that members want it urgentby arid, broadcasting authorities knowing that, took the advantage and got the results for their own purposes as well. Dr. Mazengarb: Your members want eustoxners to kuow early as it affects the betting of the next race. Witness: Customers want to know. • If the demand on a broadcasting studio to stop playing a record and give the result was made, it was not in Wellington but perhaps' in Auckland, said witness. G .Palmerston North was a distributing centre whose agent went each Saturday and operhtea rrom a teiepnone nirea from a subscriber for the day. Dr. Mazengarb referred to a passage in a recent book stating that telephones for bookmakers were souglvt by an agent of the association without any departmental injuiry as to the business of the person at whose premises the connectioxx was being made. Further, the account was paid by the association which also' paid a utility fee of £1 weekly to ensure tliat applications were dealt with expeditiously. Witness said he was surprised at this. He had no knowledge of it. The fee referred to did not appear in the Auckland balance sheets. Letters containlng dividends were sent to tlie Prinie Minister 's Depart ment each Saturday niglit for the last two years. The infarmation was sought by an officer of thq department ami supplied free. He thought most inembers paid in come tax. Whether they supplied re turns or they were ascertained by de partmental officers, he did not know. I Dr. Mazengarb: Will you let us see the profit and loss account and balance sheet of your association? Witness: I don't think! I .object to your seeing it! His Honour said witness could not be compelled to produce it. Witness: Then it had better stay m my office. He added tliat the association was agaiust more rxice dates because there were enough now and ample opportun ity to bet on Saturdavs. It opposed mid-week racing evcn if it resulted iu more off-course betting. Must Have Telephones Dr. Mazengarb: If telephones now supplied to your associatioii and its members were disconnected, would it not greatly reduce the voluxne of illegal betting? Witness: If they were disconnecteil we would take iiuntediate steps to get otliers not necessai'fly in our naiue. J It i?vas - trtie boPlHnakers liatl •ageixis' in shops but he know Of nine in factories or working lifts. The coxumis sion was ls to 3s Od in tlie pound. II e had no idea how many agents there were. There 'might.be two bookmakers outside; t|ie j-jassociatxop Toi; one inside. There ';wdmlj| be ;n,ior/ thah 4)00 . bookmakers. 'Hb iibtf liOard of postdated elieques beixig aecepted for betting debts. He wanted. to pr opare a blaek list but members would not liave it. Tlie association did not pay lines imposed on members. He had no knowledge if any applications were beixig made for a reiiiission of lines on members. Mr. Justice Finlay: Do you think it desirable in the public interest that the living of a considerable number oi persons should depend on the result o sporting events? Think it over and give me your answer after the afternoon tea adjournment. Witness: I think that if sport was left clean and properly controlled and there was no corrupt work in any shapc or form, it is quite right for an in dividual's -livelihood to depend on th. result of sport. His Honour: The weakness of tha* answer is that it assumes an impossibic condition because the fact of a living being dependent on a result, supplie the motive for corruption. No one would suggest sport is entirely clean now despite efforts made. Re-examined by Mr. Leicester, Mr Ulegg said off-course bettors mostlv backed a few liorses in a race so there was little betting on outsiders through bookmakers. Mr. .Tustice Finlay: It is no use to back an outsider with a bookmaker be cause of the limits. Mr. Leicester: If a punter has faitlr in a horse and cannot get to the course lie is content with a £20 and £10 limit Mr. .Tustice Finlay: Ile would only do it as an unacceptable alterrtative with tlie result that bookmakers do not get many outsider bets. Witness said the association had no .Stratford member and if that town liad 23 bookmakers they .must-.be betting with each other. Witness, replying to Mr. Heenan. Member of the Commission, said he sav\ nothing inconsistent between the association 's statement that it would bc undignified for the Post Office to liandle bets, and the fact that the association and bookmakers now rented telephones from the department which were used in connection with bookmaking. His association 's members did not want to operate at non-totalisator meetings. The hearing proceeds on Monday.