RACING COSTS; HALF COMES BACK

Chronicle (Levin), 6 March 1947, Page 6

RACING COSTS; HALF COMES BACK

WELLINGTON, Mar. 5. Yesterday afternoon, the • president of the Racing Conference (Mr. H. R. Chalmers) told the Commission that on present-day costs it would not be possible to train a horse, and transport it to and from the meetings, under £500 a year. At the present time, there were about 3000 horses in training in New Zealand. Of the total stakes given last year, the amount per horse would Work out at approximately £210. Cross-exauiined by Dr. O. C. Mazengarb, Mr. Clialmers said he took the view that betting was not in itself wrong. It was a matter of degrce, he said. Dr. Mazengarb: Do you regard lotteries as theinselves wrong? — I cannol express an opiniou 011 Jotteries. It is not our concern; we are dealing with racing. You know that the comluct of lottcries has been against the law? — I do uot know that-. There are sonie lotteries that arc legal, I under, stand. Well, you know it is illegal to take a ticket in "Tatt's"? — I have heard that. WilJ you tell nie on what principlc the law should regard certain betting as wrongful, and proliibit it? Mr. .Tustice Finlay said these were questions that might better be pufc to another witness. After all, Mr. Chalmers was the president of the Racing Conference. "A woral philosopher is what you want, " the Judge added. Dr. MazengaTb (to the witness): If racing has another 20 days, Avill tfie're not be a deniand for another 20 and so on? — We will face the demand when we get it. We do not ask people to bet at the races. Witness added that there were people whu went to tlie races and did not invest a pound. You have facilities for £15,000,000 worth of betting a year. Ts that not sufficient for the community? — I think some districts are entitled to another day's racing. Off-the-Course Betting. To Mr. Leieester (for the Dominion Sportsmen 's Association), tlie witness said the Racing Conference, on severn! occasions, had discussed the broad principles on which a schenie for off-tlie-course betting could be provided. The conference had not got down to details, but it was confident that if offcourse betting througli the totalisator was legalised the Racing Conference and the Trotting Conference wQuld be able to propound a satisfactory scheme. Mr. Leieester: Does the Racing Confe^ence suggest tliat betting is antisocial? — We sav the bookmaker is, because he takes evervthing out of the sport and puts nothing in. If, in fac.t. the bookmaker was legalised, and if from taxation colleijted by him an agreed proportion went back to racing elubs, would not that. in your view, remove the suggestion of him being anti-social? — No, as long as there are bookmakers there will be a tendencv for a man when his book is showing badly to olfer inducements to a jockey, trainer, or owner not to win, or offer inducements to a trainer to leave a horse in a race knowing well it is not going to start. You never find a totalisator going to the start to

oft'er a jockey £100 to lose, or going to a factory to ask a man to have a pound on this. The witness added that he had heard that in Stratford there were 23 boolcniakers, and in' Wanganui 27. Racing Conference would never agree to th'e principle that, because certain men could not be controlled, they should bfe licensed. . The Conference had never seriously considered the licensing of bookmakers to Conduet off-course betting, not through betting shops, but in offices to which the public had no physical aceess, bnt with a forni of credit bet-. ting analogous to that in England. 1 Doubles Totalisator. Mr. Leieester: Would not.. a double totalisator be unattractiv.e to the clubs because it would to some'extent tie up funds otherwise available to the totalisator? The witness said he did not think the doubles machine would affect the totalisator very much. In any case, the racing authorities did not regard the doubles machine in the light of how much they would get out of it. It might not result in any profit, but he was sure that many members of the public would prefer to take these doubles with the machine rather_ than with bookmakers. Touching the question of the Post Office lxandling wires to totalisators if an off-course system of betting were established, the witness said no such thing could be contemplated as ,tlie precincts of a Post Oiiice being converted into a betting shop. The Post Offico would not handle the monev. Where i't would be ha'ndled was another matter. A defmite scheme had not yet been evolved. In reply to further questions, he said he would be very surprised to hear that 75 per cent of owners bet with bookmakers at present. Mr. Leieester: Would it surprise you to know that a large number bet with bookmakers? — I have no deiinite proof, but it is common knowledge. On the other hand, there are a great number of owners who do not bet at all. Picnic Meetings. When the hearing was resumed this morning, Mr. Chalmers was further eross-examined by Mr. Leieester, for the Domini?n Sportsmen 's Association, this time concerning 86 non-totalisator clubs which hold picnic meetings. 'Mr. Leieester: Do you agree or disagree that a great number of those who attend meetings of nonrtotalisator clubs satisfy their desire to bet by betting with bookmakers in the vicinity ? — I have no knowledge of that. Would it surprise you to know that a great deal of betting goes on in connection with those meetings; that people lind ways and means of backmg their fancies? The witness said he only knew that they sometimes.ran Avh.at was called an ' ' equalisatorj " a 2s or 5s sweep. Assuming tliaL.thexe is a degree of oft'-course betting In eonnection Avith those meetings,. Aj ould Ssending oi ino ney to theF totalisator solve the problem of oft'-course. betting at nontotalisator meetings? — If they did not have a totalisator \a-e eoiild not send it. The object of those meetings is not for men to niake money out of the running. It is more or less of a sport. "Back for More" In xeply to further questions, Mr. Chalmers agreed that no . scheme as yet contemplated by the Racing Conference covercd betting at such meetings. When aslced Iioav it Avas that illegal off-course betting was said tq be inereasing in volume if bookmakers were what the Racing Conference submitted they were,„ the witness said that, no matter hoAV much a man (meaning a punter) Avas hurt, he would come back for more when his wounds Avere healed. Mr. Leieester: Is that not cqually true of the totalisator? When the bettors lost there, do they not come back to the lolaiisator and get. more punishment, as it were? , The Avitness said he could see no analogy betwee'n the bookmaker and the totalisator.' The totalisator Avas open and above hoard, and there for everyone to see. People knew that, after the legal deductions had been made, all the money invested went back to the bettors. * It must be common knowledge that, after any large meeting, local trades- > men complain . ' that people say they lost their money when an account should be paid. Are there not objeetions from tiiat point of \riew to the totalisator as well as to the bookmakers? — I would say the tradesmen do complain soinetimes. Is .it uot also common knowledge that "those who' lose 011 the totalisator try to recoup with the bookmakers? — I Avould not say that. And very ofteu those iudividuals do not pay at all? — There again I'cannot say. Bearing in mind that a bookmaker cannot sue, the wounds are not necessarily always those of the off-course bettor? "Do you mean to say that the bookmaker loses at lot of money? ' ' replied the witness, Avith a note of surprise. 'They still seem very prosperous. They have their big -limousines." Mr.' Leieester: Are the operations of the bookmakers in Australia not an inducement to New Zealand owners to take their horses there? — Not in many instances; In some instances. Witness added that the stakes in New Zealand were better and would eontinue to be better, except in the case of a few metropolitan clubs in Australia. Touching - the broadcasting of races the witness disclosed that the broadcasting authorities pay the Racing Conference and the Trotting Conference £1500 a -year for the right'to broadcast. Qf that sum £900 goes to the ltacing Conference and £600 -to the Trotting Conference.