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LICENSING BILL.

IN THE LEGISLATIVE

COUNCIL.

SECOND READING CARRIED.

MAJORITY ISSUE DISCUSSED. [THE PRESS Special Service.] WELLINGTON, December 1. The Licensing Amendment Bill entered on its final stages in its passage through Parliament to-day, when it was brought before the Legislative Council. The Bill was introduced in the Council this afternoon, and the second reading debate was commenced at eight o'clock to-night. The sponsor of the measure in the Council is the Hon. Mr Gow. Public interest in the Bill was shown by the crowded galleries. , „ ~ r, The Bill as it came bofore the Council provided for a ballot on the two isBues of Continuance and National Prohibition, the ballot to be decided by a bare majority. The polls are to be taken at every General Election. The clauses requiring a minimum amount of accommodation in new hotels, and giving greater powers to Licensing Committees in requiring licensees to improve existing premises, were struck out' by the Lower House. Moving the second . reading of the Bill, Mr Gow spoke of the importance of tho measure, which, ho said, agitated the minds of all classes of the community. He considered that tho Bill was an earnest attempt to improve the licensing law, and waß likely to be of benefit to the community. The Bill reasserted the principle of the bare i which, he considered, was the only reasonable margin. He believed that most members had made up their minds on the various aspects of the Bill, but he reminded members, that it was for them to remember that the Bill had been passed by the House of I Representatives, tho direct representaI tives of tho people, by a substantial majority.

The Bare Majority. When Mr Gow sat down there was some hesitancy on the part of other members, and the Spea'ker had put the second reading motion, and thero was some voting on it before the Hon. Mr Triggs roso to speak. Mr Triggs said the Bill was far too important to allow it to go to a vote without some discussion. There were two conflicting sets of opinions. He believed the time would come when the unextreme section of the people would agree that the compromise in the Bill as originally introduced in another place was the right thing. Ho could not understand the attitude of those who made a fetish of the bare majority. There was no virtue in the bare majority. If eleven Judges had to decide a point, six of them deciding one way might not be right against the five deciding the other way. Indeed, the decision of the five might be upheld by the High Qourt as against the decision of the six. When the question of personal liberty came in, tho decision of a bare majority would not be satisfactory. Passing a law by a bare majority would not put a stop to the drinking of strong liquor, though it might lessen the quantity consumed. As to America, Prohibition was not carried there by the vote of a bare majority; it was enforced by an amendment of the Constitution. He could not understand tho attitude of some of those who wero pledged to support the present Government being so determined on a non-Party issue, caring nothing for Party loyalty or the effect their actions might have on the progress of the country. When New Zealand was recovering from the post-war depression, and about to enter «on an era of renewed prosperity, thero were men who were prepared to throw down the Government on the licensing question, and give the reins of power into the hands of those who believed in the socialisation of all the means of production and exchange, and who believed in the confiscation of private property. He would agree to compromise on tho majority question by suggesting a majority of 524 per cent. "I ask Mr Gow would he accept Prohibition if it were carried by one vote?" Mr Triggs continued. "If he were Prime Minister, responsible for the whole of the country to the country, would he be prepared to face all the turmoil that would attend the inauguration of Prohibition if it were brought In by even 500 votes?" Mr Triggs favoured the extension of the tenure to mx years, suggesting that this should commend itself to the Prohibitionists, for if Prohibition wero carried a sixyear interval before the next poll would give the people a better opportunity of becoming used to it, and make for stability of conditions. However, he had an open mind on the tenure issue. Hut if the Bill went to the third reading with the bare majority clause he would voto against it.

Against State Control. The Hon. Mr Newman said he believed all the members had already made up their minds on the Bill. He had always been on tho side of temperance, and against the great evil of the excessive use of alcohol. Yet he had not always been able to support the ideas of the temperance party in this matter. He had never been in favour of the bare majority. (Hear, hear.) They should consider also that there were a large number of people connected with the trade who were in no way responsible for the evils of the trade. Were they to be displaced on a bare majority vote, and perhaps three years afterwards to be supplanted by another set of people? There were members elected solely because they had been supporters of the bare majority on this question. He submitted that that was not in the public interest. In regard to State Control, he had never believed in that, because once it had been agreed to it would be there for all time, and Prohibition would be done for. Once the State got its hand into that very lucrative pie, the people would never get it out of it. One could easily imagine that with a corrupt Government every hotel controlled by the State would be a centre of interest for that corrupt Government. The only question in regard to liquor was "Yea" or "Nay," and the clearer the issues were put to the people tho better. Many of the country hotels were in poor condition, and some were a disgrace, but when complaints were made the proprietors asked what could be expected with only a three-year tenure J He was not in favour of extending the tenure at present, because the public, to his mind, were more or less evenly divided on the question, and the present was not an opportune time to make the change.' He hoped the protagonists on either side would come together, and devise remedies which would not only improve existing conditions, but remove the licensing question from the sphere of politics.

The Council's Eights and Powers. "I say definitely that if the Council alters the Bill it will exalt the licensing question into the chief issue at the next election," said the Hon. Mr Hanan. "Our ameudments will not re-

move it from politics. This House has no right or power to alter the decisions of the elected representatives. Sir Francis Bell: Oh, nonsense! Voices: Rubbish! Mr Hanan said tho people did not elect the members of the Council, but they elected the members of the Lower House. The decisions of the House of Representatives were thoso demanded at the last election by. the.people. ! The Hon. Mr Garland: By part of the i people. . A voice: The issues were not part or the election. Mr Hanan: They were. Sir Francis Bell: Is that all your argument about this Bubjcct? Mr Hanan: "Oh, no; I have more. Turning to the majority issue, 3lr Hanan, who proclaimed himself in favour of the bare majority, twitted Sir Francis Bell with having in the past supported the same principle. Sir Francis Bell: Another argument? "A Racial Poison." Sir Robert Stout, who was greeted with a round of applause, said that alcohol was not a web of cloth; it w;as not ordinary goods; it was a racial poison. What, then, was to bo done with it? Was it to be sold like ordinary goods? To suggest that was to suggest that there should be free trade in alcohol, and that there was to be no restriction on its sale. If hon. members saw a great injury being done to the community, were they going to say that they would not move a foot to stop this murdering of the people unless by a two-thirds majority? The whole question was one of morality and law, and not a case of private liberty. 55-45 Margin Too Wide? Tho Hon. Mr Michel said the Prime Minister was to be congratulated on having brought down the Bill, and on having declared that it was not to be a Party question. The majority of the people of the Dominion agreed with Mr Coates that the State Control issue was not a live one. Mr Michel said ho could not for one moment accept State Control. He was definitely opposed to the question being decided on the bare majority, but he thought the fiftyfive to forty-five margin was too wide. He believed in three-yearly polls, and expressed the opinion that there would not be any great expenditure on hotel buildings simply because the tenure was extended. "Wo have heard reports that any amendment we make in the majority clause will not be accepted by the Lower House," continued Mr Michel. "I sincerely hope that report is without foundation. Wo do want to get this licensing question out of the way of the political life of this country." Mr Michel added that if the issue was decided on the basis of 52$ per cent, to 47$ per cent, it would load the Prohibition vote by 35,000 votes. The Hon. Mr Isitt: What price did the Prohibition party pay to get the bare majority? Mr Michel: I do not know. Mr Isitt: The local restoration polls on fifty-five per cent. Sir Frederick Lang said he had been for thirty years in the other House, and on overy occasion when the matter came up he had not voted in favour of a bare majority, but he would willingly vote for a bare majority if every voter was compelled to vote. Sir Frederick Lang added that he favoured the State Control issue appearing on the ballot-paper, and he had always favoured five years' Parliaments. He hoped the Bill would be improved when it got into Committee. He thought candidates should not give pledges on this question in writing. They should answer them from the platform. The Hon. Mr Cohen said ho never had been and never would be a bare majority man. He supported the twoissue ballot-paper, but he thought the three years' term was a mistake in more ways than one. He would, if the opportunity offered, vote for a six years' term.

Mr Isitt. The Hon. Mr Isitt said that many were unduly alarmed at the possibility of the bare majority vote. The Prohibitionists had struggled hard for it, and paid for it with the Local Restoration polls. The Prohibitionists were in a majority in the Lower House, and if any concession were made it should be made by those who were opposed to them. They had been told that the greater proportion of the State Control votes would go for Continuance in the two-issue ballot, and now they were asked to forgo the ba*e majority for the sake of a small proportion of that vote. Tho Prohibition cause had been fostered in the face of determined opposition, and there was no chance of the liquor traffic being abolished without the Prohibitionists having a substantial majority behind them. Mr Isitt closed by stating that alcohol had caused more, injury to mankind than war, famine, and pestilence. The Hori. Mr Carrington said the retention vote had increased by 32,000 between the 1919 and 1925 polls. He intended to vote for tho second reading of the Bill because he thought it should be altered in Committee. He was opposed to the bare majority principle, and he favoured the six-year tenure. Mover Replies. The Hon. Mr Gow, in reply, expressed satisfaction that the debate had been conducted without heat. In regard to the speeches made, he had heard nothing new against the bare majority. Majority rule was what governed all democratic countries. For himself, he would be very pleased to see a law that would convey such a blessing carried by a majority of one. The second reading was agreed to on the voices.

THE CRUCIAL STAGE.

[THB PRESS Special Service.]

WELLINGTON, December 1. To-morrow the Legislative Council will deal with tho Licensing Bill in Committee. There has been much counting of heads in the Council during the past two or three days, and the general opinion is that tho clauses amended in the Lower House will be reamended in the Legislative Council, with the result that there will bo disagreement between the two Houses, resulting eventually in the dropping of the Bill.

The Council of the Philosophical Institute, in its annual report, states that Ricearton Bush continues in good condition, and has been as carefully attended to by the.ranger, Mr J. F. Tickell, aa in past years. "Tho ordinary income of the trustees remains insufficient for the proper upkeep and necessary expenses, and tho trustees gratefully acknowledge grants in aid from the Riccarton Borough Council and the Waimairi County Council," states the report. "This year additional heavy expenditure has to be incurred for repairs to the ranger's cottage and sewer connexions. To meet this expense and provide a more assured income, the trustees are asking for contributors who will subscribe a sum of £1 or more annually, and tho appeal has already met with encouraging success. It is hoped that before the end of the financial year on March 31st, 1928, a sufficient number of contributors will have been secured to relieve the trustees from financial anxiety."

Permanent link to this item
Hononga pūmau ki tēnei tūemi

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19271202.2.51

Bibliographic details
Ngā taipitopito pukapuka

Press, Volume LXIII, Issue 19173, 2 December 1927, Page 8

Word count
Tapeke kupu
2,329

LICENSING BILL. Press, Volume LXIII, Issue 19173, 2 December 1927, Page 8

LICENSING BILL. Press, Volume LXIII, Issue 19173, 2 December 1927, Page 8

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