DEFENCE COMMISSION.

Press, Volume LIV, Issue 16149, 1 March 1918, Page 7

DEFENCE COMMISSION.

CHUISTCHURCH SITTINGS

SOME INTERESTING EVIDENCE. ! The Defence Enquiry Commission I opened its Christc-hureh sittings yesterday morning at 10 o'clock, and then adjourned till i'.3(] in tho afternoon, when Colonel Chaffey, Officer Com- ! manding the Canterbury District, I Major Matthews. A.Q.M.G., and Captain White, Ordnance Officer, gavo evidence. Tho members of the Commission consisted of Brigadier-General Sir Robert Anderson (chairman), and Mr Charles Rhodes, the third member, Mr Peter Barr, being absent in Dunedin. ' LOCAL CAMI'o. Colonel R. A. Chaffev said he had | been- in command of the Canterbury Military District sine a Juno, 1014. Ho had had 38 years' military experience, lie stated that in tho old volunteer days the defence expenditure had practically been thrown away, as the rosults were so small owing to the inability to secure sufficient men. The universal training scheme had created a considerable improvement, and under it plans had been mapped out to provido a l'orce of ten thousand men at ■Snort notice in case of an outbreak of war. The universal training ecnemo •had given this country three years in which to prepare before the war broke out. Regaraing a locai camp lor renilorcomenis lor tne iixpemuonary -t'oree, witness hail lost several or his best men through their departure witn the Maui Expeditionary I'orce, and iio had recognised that tnero was not a suflicient sUitt here to train the men, in a Jocal camp, and fio thought at tho timo they were wise to have a central camp in Wellington. Tne Chairman: Have you seen fit to alter that view at all Colonel Chaffev: Yes, in many ways, especially since conscription came in and w'tn the calling up of tho Second Division. I recognise that tho isocond Division men should have a month or two in a local camp first. They should have leniency in a few ways, being able to see thoir wives, etc. In the local camp they could bo given preliminary training, ft nd men to bo unfit for active service coulci bo weeded out. However, that was ruled out, though there wero no especial arguments against it. Colonel Chaffey said he recognised that to transfer a camp to here would cost thousands of pounds, but pointed out that at the samo timo an. enormous expense was incurred in transferring men from tho South Island to the North. _ Whether that should favour tho holding of a camp in this island ho did not say, because he did not know the transportation figures, though he •could mako a rough guess. At the time he advocated tho holding of a local camp for the Second Division men he had sufficient returned soldiers on his_ staff to train them, and he felt quite confident of being able to run the camp- "Before tho introduction of the Military Service Act," he said, I believe w$ had not a sufficient staff to run a local camp, but as time went on we could have trained that staff. Whenever we had a really good man down here, directly Headquarters heard about it they wanted him, and I these men gradually drifted away. .Knowing tho purpose for which they wero wanted wo never objects J. We gavo Headquarters tho very best men wo could." The Chairman: Roughly, I take it, ■at first you were not 111 a position to 'tram teen, but by the time the Military Service Act was oassed, you had trained instructors wiio could have trained them, and the men that were taken away were sufficient for that work? Colonel Chaffey: Yes. They could have trained instructors at a central ground and sent some to us. You would have sent likely men to be trained and they would have sent men to you?— Yes. At that timo it would nave kept up interest in the various districts much better. If had a district camp here would the officer commanding the district m your opinion, be the best man to run that camp?— Yes, either himself or someone under him. It would not be neccssary for Headquarters to send a man?— Not at all. Colonel Chaffey pointed out that a local officer, Colonel G. J. Smith, had been placed in charge of tho district camp of the Main Expeditionary Force PIN-PRICKS. The Chairman: Do you find that you are hampered hero the samo as other districts are hampered for want of authority in spending money?— Through everything being run in Wellington, the departments hare got so unwieldy that it is almost impossible, in my opinion, for them to carry on economically, and if we require any little want in the district and send to Wellington for it, it takes too long to get anything. Colonel Chaffey wont on to state that he believed expenditure had become a little too extravagant once, and it was possible that the department took steps to stop it, but it had led to a number of _ little pin-pricks. They wero pinpricking a great deal and keeping the aistrict irritated when they could be devoting themselves to other work. The Chairman: You can dodge an elephant but not a fly. I take it tho system has grown up? Witness: Yes. Frequently it happens that a junior officer lays down the law to a senior officer who naturally objects'to being jumped on by a junior. Excessive zeal? —Yes. Do you find yourself still hampered in that regard ?—Oh yes. Not so much perhaps at present because of this thing -going on. Witness added that tho district commander possessed authority to spend a little on barrack furniture, but if one did want to spend any of it, the spending was so hedged round with restrictions that one was often afraid to spend it. So practically you don't spend money ?—Practically. In reply to further questions Colonel Chaffey said he would be satisfied if ho were given power to spend up to £100 in his district upon his own authority. The Chairman": And that would bo subject to audit? .Witness: Yes. Ho would keep an eye upon the spending of the money. A FARCE. Referring to vouchers witness stated that sucn were signed by the A.Q.M.G., and if this officer happened to be away, witness was responsible for them. The signing took up a good bit know anything about them when you do sign themF-Very little. How can I? I can only trust my offi°Your signing under those conditions is a farce P-Yes. AbsoJutely a farce^ Through your signing those they could come back on j ou. * department in W ellington a work. ItIPA ISLAND CAMPHave you a German internment camp hce?—Yes. at ltipa Island rhat oamp is actually under you. General Headquarters doea not interfere with you m an y ,v J

You are responsible in every way?— Absolutely. I would not take it in any other way. A COST OF £3(30,C00 Mr Rhodes asked witness whether he had an,- opinion as to the length of training required by men who had received Territorial training, who received four months' training in the Reinforcement cantpo, compared with _ British troops who had not received prior miii- [ tary training, but who, he understood, only remained in camp three months before proceeding to the front. Witness said ho had always considered it our duty here to fit our Territorials for war. He maintained, and always had maintained, that tho training received by the Territorials, should i .do"away with"at least a month or six weeks of their period in the Reinforcement cam]). lie <'id net say this should apply to c-vciy or.e of them, but tho exemptions coulci be weeded out here, first of ail. or ly competent instructors in Wellington. The men who had received Territorial training should bo f.ut in a body by themselves. Thev fhoukl net have to go through all the drudgery a^am. Mr Rhodes: There could be a considerable saving? Colonel Chaffey: Yes, a big saving. Do you agree with this, that a man with pay, rations, etc., costs the country close on ten shillings a day?—-Yes. Do you agree that if he were left in his bn.-innss he would be earning ion shillings a day?— Yes, in these times. That would he worth one pound to tho nation, and, if a thousand men were left for month, that means_ C'IOCO a day, £30,000 a month, or £360.000 a vear. Some figm-i?. You practically endot&e J nat?—Yes, I do. Colonel Chaffev complained of tho railways charging the Defence Department prr.ciieally the full'single fare for transporting men on the railways. Re did not consider this a fair thing. '1 bo Union Steam Ship Company gavo a 20 per cent, reduction, and he contended that the Railway Department could do this Tho local Defence stalf had beer, considerably reduced of late, particularly in the country districts, where tho weekly and fortnightly parades nad been discontinued. A TERRITORIAL SCHEME. To Mr Rhodes: After the war ho advocated one Territorial training catup in tach island, the South Island one to be at Yaldl'urst. Mr Rhodes asked whether this wo'Jid not be expensive ir. view of the fact that 4000 or 5000 men would havo to be entrained from Otago. "Witness said the only expense would bo tho railway charges, and tho railway.-; were a Government concern. His opinion was that they should have a training camp m charge of a regular stuff. , , Mr Rhodes: Do you advocate that cno man should go into 'lamp for four months for four years? Witr.cs-:: Yes. The chairman: You would have no weekly parades during that period? 'Witness: N0..... You believe in giving it all in one dose? —Yos, all in ono dose. That is a now point you have opened tip. Witness said it might bo possible to hold autumn manoeuvres, etc. Mr Rhodes: But would tho public stand that? Witnoss: I contend that three or four months' training would mako better soldiers of the men than scattered parades. A man can learn a lot in tlireo or four months. Ho gets discipline. He just gets a smattering now. Where we get a pull over the rest of the British Empire is that we train our cadets from tho age of 14. It is the finest thing wo can do to make them bettor soldiers and citiZ6DS ' QUITE SATISFACTORY. Captain Arthur R. White, ordnance officer, said he had been district storekeeper since 1903, before the ordnance corps came into being recently. He joined the New Zealand Garrison Artillery on March 18th, 1897. He was practically responsible for all equipment in tho district. He considered present conditions were quite satisfactory. and there was nothing he could suggest to mako things run more smoothly. RED TAPE. Major Robert S. Matthews, Assist-ant-Quartermaster-Goneral, Canterbury military district, said ho had been a member of tho New Zealand Defence Staff for seven years. The chairman: You have your hands' quite full now? Witness: I have no hesitation in saying that my hands are more than Witness complained that country! work which he was frequently unable to do encroached seriously ujion his time, and that ho had no definite as- j sistance. His chief difficulty was in possessing no authority to spend money. He quoted instances. He made a request to Headquarters in Wellington for a grant of £2 10s for the supplying of water for the coming camp in the Nelson province. Tho thing seemed so trivial that one did not expect to have a reply from Headquarters with eight aueries in it. Witness ,rea'd the letter, signed by Major H. O. Nutsford, which prompted the chairman to advise witness to mention in his reply the condition of the water, whether it was artesian or otherwise. The chairman added that the fifty .'-hillings in dispute would soon run away in witnesses's time and that of his assistant and the correspondence. Witness: And brain fag. In the course of further evidence witness told of how an officer wished to use his own motor-car, whereby he could cover his district in half the time that he could by using the ordinary means of locomotion and at, the samo time save the Department a' small amount of money every month, but the Department, through Major Nutsford, refused to sanction such proceeding. It was necessary to connect the drill liall, at Westport with a new drainage system, but the matter had been going backwards and forwards with Headquarters so long, ever since last August, that he was afraid that owing to the rise since then in tne cost of material the price would bo now more than £80 above the price then quoted by the Defence Department.

Asked by Sir Robert Anderson as to whether he had any idea of the cause of the delays existing at Wellington, witness said he could not give any unless it was because they were so fearfully busy that things had been hung up. Sir Robert: So busy that they take oh extra work.

Witness stated that two or three of the gas lights failed at the Blenheim drill-shed and, having no one on lis staff competent to attend to them, the officer-in-charge called in a gas expert who found that fourteen lamps required rutting in order. To save the shed being piimged in darkness and so preventing parades, the officer ordered them to be attended to. As a consequence witness had to write to the officer in question asking him why J.e was doing this on his own, though lie (witness) knew perfectly, well why he was doing it. The chairman: So this system -vou regard as pernicious starting ff o ni Headquarters must percolate rioht through ? °

Witness: Yes

In reply to further questions witness said many of the circulars -eceived from Headquarters were almost a repetition of previous ones, necessi tnting very often work havino- to b* officers! ° VSr " S "° by the iourmMl''Til| S W s^'c]ok- C ?b™'i S ™ in ° d -

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