Thank you for correcting the text in this article. Your corrections improve Papers Past searches for everyone. See the latest corrections.

This article contains searchable text which was automatically generated and may contain errors. Join the community and correct any errors you spot to help us improve Papers Past.

Article image
Article image
Article image
Article image
Article image
Article image
Article image
Article image
Article image
Article image
Article image
Article image
Article image
Article image
Article image
Article image

EXTRACTS FROM "HANSARD."

RAILWAY MARKET TIOKKTB, In the Home on August 21st, Mr Walker asked the Minister for Pablic Works, if his attention has been called to • recent decision given by the Resident Magistrate, Ashburton, aa to an alleged Illegal use of railway msrket-tiokets, -and if he proposes to Introduce legislation to sender more clear the ex'sttng. law on the ■abject 1 . He simply desired to pat a few faota before the House, to show that this matter was one of very large importance to the community. These market-tickotß, v honorable membenrwco nwsre, were issued on certain dtya of the week, for the purpose of assisting those who frequented markets. There was no doubt an to the original object m leaning these tickets ; but the custom had grown np, and had been encouraged and winked at by the department, of permitting the general pabllo to avail themselves of these tickets, m being a convenient and eoonomioal method of travelling on the railways. He ipoke from bis own experience when he laid that the custom bsd been, bo to ■peak, encouraged by the department •nd the public undoubtedly were accustomed to the privilege, and invariably ' made' ase of it. He wou?d slmp'y give one instance to show that the department were m the habit of not only issuing market-Mckefs to adults who might or might not be going to market, bat tickets were issued to women and ohlldren. If it was daemed desieable to stop this custom tha department onght to have given the pabllo the notice and stopped it In a proper and suitable manner. In the cms to phioh ha referred m his question a highly re•peetable oltizw of Ashburton toot advantage of a market-ticket to Washdyke. He took # return to Washdyke, . and booked forward on a single tioket to Tlmarn. The guard challenged his right to do bo, and ha was brought up m the Court m Ashburton and fined by the Magistrate the difference m fare* Ths praotice which had grown np might be a . wrong one— he was not speaking to that ?[ueition at present : that was, of course, or the department to settle between itself and the public — but he wished to point oat the extreme hardship m this ease, and the harsh manner m which the department had endeavoured to do what be preinmed they thought they had a right to do. If the department desired to pat down the praotice which bad grown op with their own aonoivanoe they ought to have stopped it m a right way. They ought to have given the pablfo doe warning) and certainly should not have taken the extreme step of bringing an «xoeedlngly respectable member of the community into Oourt. This was only one of those oases m which the department did things m the wrong way;

Mr Mitchelson said it was quite true, as the honorable gentleman had stated, tbat • gentleman at Ashburton took a markettioket to Waahdyke, and that npon his arrival thare he took a Btogle ticket to Timarn ; and, wnen before the Magistrate ftt Ashburlon, Mr Graham, the gentleman In question, acknowledged to having taken his market-ticket to Waahdyke with the deliberate intention of going on to Tlmarp. He (Mr Mitohelson) had made enquiries Into the matter, and found that, although the department had suspected tbat the Issue of market-tlokets had been abused, this was the first opportunity they had of taking up the matter. As honorable members weje aware, market-tickets were first lißuedL for a speolal purpose, and, if •n evil system had grown up under the concessions then made, that was not the fault of the department. With reference to the latter part of the question, as to whether the (government intended to take legislative action, there was no necessity to do that, as the whole thing «rai dona by regulation. The simple question was, whether or not the issue of piarjcet-tlebets shpuld be abolished, or whether the Government should retnrn to the old system of issuing return-tickets, the present system being unsatisfactory. Mr Walker asked if the Jflniater would kindly inquire whether it was not the ease that. In the past the practice had been to Issue these roarkefe*tlckets to women and children. If that was to t then the department had encouraged and connived at the practice. Major Steward said that before proceeding to the notices of motion, as he had not an'opportnnlty of saying a word or two In connection with the matter brought np by the honorable member for £ibbQrte*{ hi would now move^tbe

I adjmrnmeat of the Houae to put himself fa order. Ho had boon communicated , wth not only by the gentleman who waß proceeded against by the Government; m tbi* nnttor, fcol he also — with other mem--1 ber« of the Honee coming from that neighborhood— had received a memorial , signed by o comber of residents yin fha dieir'ct, who conceived that a veiy Rorlou3 injustice boi beon done. He ahoold like tn point out to the Minister of PubHc Works, ia connection with the rera»rka he made on that subject, that there were Eoveral inatar.cea In connection with tho railway eervfees of the c>losy where this sort of thing obtained : that, owing to some orrangemonte m tho tariff, — A being one point, 0 some distance away, and B intermediate,-— a person by taklne tickets te< m A. to B and fcom B to 0 could travel the whole j nrney at a ieBB price than if he took a t'oket from A to 0. Thstoertalcly had t.ken pace, to his knowledge, on a lino m Otago and also on the lice between OhrtatchorcH and Lyttelton, Now, this w*s what he wanted to point ont : that if the honorable gentleman carried this prosecution, or peraeoution, to a fall issue he would Rt once direct that proceedicga should be taken against all persona who, under the clrcnmstances he had pointed ont, had taken tiokets for two halves of a jonrney, Instead of from point to point. What he contended on behalf of the publio was this : that if the department issued a time-table and tariff of fare?, and stated that, an between a . particnlir place and another particular place, particular rates ahculd obtain on particular dayp, tho wh->!e of thepaople had a right to tika their tickets between these particular places on those particular days at the price ntated, and they had a perfect right to take their tickets from these places to any other placa at the Government tariff The gentleman who happened to be proceeded agalust was a highly honorable man, who would not thlDk c<f taking the Bligbtest advantage of any private parson or pab'fo body. He felt a grievance. For taking a ticket to a certain point on an advertised day, and then taking a ticket beyond that point to another place, he waa hauled up before the Resident Magistrate's Court, and made to pay 6i 7d additional to what he had ptld. Nor was this all : tho Government were not content, In this instance, to employ a local solicitor to carry the caße Jnto the Magistrate's Oour*-, but sent to Ohtlatohucoh for Mr Joynt, and that gentleman obtained his costs m Court. Now, that added to the grievance of the gentleman to whom ho referred under the circumstance?. The Minister for Public Works stated that these markettickets were given simply for people 'o go to market and come baok again. These Uoketß were issued not only to men, bnt to women and ohlldren ; and If *he honorable gentleman waa going to carry out his intention to its logical conclusion he must be prepared to investigate what everybody did, and see that they went to market, i transacted their business there, and returned to the plaoe where they had taken out these market -tickets. His contention i was that this prosecution was. a mistake — that, the department having said that between certain places en certain daya the payment of so muoh would take any person to euch-and-sach a point and back again, those who chose to go on beyond that point could rightly do bo by taking out a fresh ticket to any place farther on, returning to the point from whioh they took a fnsH ticket, and thenoe back to the original starting-place on the original ticket. Jostles demanded that the whole of the oostß cf this prosecution should bo refunded, and that the department, to make sure that this sort of thing should not ccour In the fnture — for it was their own fault if it had occurred m the past — should publicly intimate that market tickets would only entitle persons to < travel between two Btated places, and that persons wanting to proceed farther could only do bo by taking out ticke's at the place cf starting. The rublio bad been misled through the laches of the department, and he did not think that a prosecution should have been instituted la the case hd referred to.

Mr Fulton entirely endorsed the remarks of the last speaker. The praotloa which bad grown up did not obtain m one particular district. He lived about twenty miles out of Dnnedin, and people on Wednesdays Invariably took a return tloket from Oatram to Dunedin and tack, and Danedfn wbb actually beyond* tbe market, Wednesdays and Saturdays were regular days for people going Into tewn. No one bad been challenged that he knew of ; cor did he know, nntil he saw this case m the papers, that on Wednesdays a ticket issued from Oatram to Dunedin and baok wbb called a market ticket. Now for another point. He might say that persons going from Oatram on other days than Wednesdays and Saturdays oould take a ticket to Mosglel for Is lOd, and then a return tloket from Moeglel to Dunedln for 2s 6d, and then get baok on a single ticket from Moaglel tc Outram ; while If they took a single ticket each way they would pay Bj. By that means persona saved |.c Bd, while putting the department to the trouble of Issuing extra tickets. Surely that was a very absurd state of things. There was another thing which be was sure had struck honorable members frequently. When a race, a cricketmatch, or some thefctrcal performance was to take place at Punedln, a notice was Issued that persons could travel from the country to the city at reduoed fares. But there were a large number of persons iiving In the city, dorks and others, who did not want to go to these performanozs — they had seen them often enough — but who wonld be very glad to Uke advantage of cheap fares to get out into the country, but they could not get out without paying the whole fare. This waa an anomaly that oould be easily reolified. He saw no reason why people m the country should be encouraged to go Into the towns, while thoße living In the townß were not allowed equal privileges to enable them to get a breath of fresh country ad. He hoped the honorable gentleman would think over these matters, and see that they were rectified In some reasonable manner. He spoke m no hostile spirit, but merely for the purpose of drawing attention to some curious Instances of management which he thought might well be rectified.

Me J. MoSenzle wished to Bay that he also was very much dissatisfied In regard to thia matter. The honorable member for Aahbnrton had raid tbat he was very much surprised at the answer given by the Minister. He did not think the honorable gentleman need be m the least surprised at the answer, because it was only what might have been expeoted. He did not know whether the Minister was aware of the gravity of his answer. The Minister stated that this was the first oase the department had an opportunity of prosecuting. If that Btatement were analysed it would be found to be — he could not exactly cay what would be the answer without being culled to order. Honorable members would know what he meant. The practice referred to had been going on for years ; it was known to every statlonmaster In the country ; and yet the Minister oame to the House with an answer from the department that this was the first opportunity they had of proseouting. That meant either that the railway servants had been oonnivlng at this matter or that they did not know their duty. Supposing the Minister and,, the department wished to carry the Byutenfa ont so as to enable people to get special , tickets when they were going to market, ' what would be the result ? If any one • oame to a statlonmaater and asked for a market-ticket! bow wonld the station-

' maßter know that he was going to market? It would be really impossible, unless the persos wanting a tioket carried with him tk ewoiu dooTurjition* > He hoped the

: Minister would do ore of two things m ', this matter-- either intimate io the public i that the dopartm nt was goin£ fo stuc'ly enforce tie law as laid down m tha Ashburron oa-o, m wl i h ca c jo proper warning should bo fiven to the pubic; or else they should sy i fha>. WedDQjcUy tickets w^uld be ovailablo or any person. Every week there were cases In this dletrfco of people who travailed to Dnnedln to the markets, Thooo papple insluded fa r mari) 1 vivea and ohiidren and servan a ; and, m fact, any "no who wished to go to Dunodln for any reason chose Wednesday for the purpoao. They had never been stopped before ; aod now to be pulled up shortly m the way referred to m the Aehburton oaee traß not Rt all oreditablo to tho department. The department made a rule, allowed that rue to fall into disuse, and then poucced on senna unfortunate person for breaking the rule, m the Bams way as was done In the grain-tariff case Mr Walker did not like to say too mnoh on this subject In asking the question, because ho knew that a speech then would be out of order ; bnt he really thought the Minister should take the whole matter into his consideration, »nd he hoped the honourable gentleman wonld lock upon the custom as having eprnng up, according to his own confession, without the knowledge of the department ; and it was a custom, he thought, which largely improved the revenue. Ho was also quite certain that the Minister could not satis- j faotorily to himself or to the public I ' restrict the iasua of these tickets, as / apparently be thought they ought to be restricted — namoly, by issuing them only tn persons who were going to market. That was quite impossible uaks3 they bad recourse to a declaration, or affidavit, or something of that sort, on eaoh occasion when an application was made for a ticket, If the Aliaiater thought that goms such safeguard as that was required he might depend npon this ; that he would prevent the honest people of the community from making use of those tickets, but scoundrels, who did not care as long as t ey saved a few shillings, would make use of tho regulation. Ha thought that, at all events, m this case, they should refund to Mr Graham the ! amount which he had been unfairly mulcted m. He looked upon the present Btate of things as vary cnß,itißfictory both tq the public and to the department. 2 He would also atk the Minister if the department really meant what they said ■^-if they meant that tickets wera only to be taken advantage of for the purpose 3 indicated In the advertisements on various ocraiiona. For instance, suppling thera wns an exonrslon train between Ohristohucch and Tiruarn, were peotle taking 4 tickets nominally for plosbura fo be fined by the department If they did any bu ineas c m Timaru ? —because, logically, th&t was what the department were wishing to do. Or supposing there was a raca day In Ohrietchuroh— the department offered groat factlitiea co the publio to come to Uhrietohuroh to attend the races— were people who came to Ohristchurch to 6 ccc their frlenda to be looked upon as dishonestly taking advantage of these 7 tickets ? The whole position wai really so absurd when It was looked Into that he was certain the common sense of the Minister would Bee that the department without his knowledge, had made a false * step, and had done a thing which they ought not to have done. He trusted the honorable gentleman would assert himself and put the matter m its old position, Mr Verrall would like to say that he 2 thought the whole system, m regard to ihe refusal of return-tickets, waa simply a petti -fogging buslneis, and seemed to be Intended to get the odd shilling. Ha 3 did not think it was any function of the Government to irqulre into the business of a man when he took a ticket. Again, he did not see why women should not have return tickets. Some of them had beon charge with cattle and Bheep atoaling, 4 He did not see why they should not do a little dee Ins; In sheep «b well. Some women went to market to keep their haabanda straight, and, that being bo, he thought they might just as well receive 5. return tiokete. They talked about railways not paying. The railways returned £2 17a 3d per £100, he caw by Mulhall, and that was 7a 3d more per cent than the Government now took for the equivalent of a loan from the banks. Motion for adjournment negattvei.

Permanent link to this item
Hononga pūmau ki tēnei tūemi

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AG18880912.2.16

Bibliographic details
Ngā taipitopito pukapuka

Ashburton Guardian, Volume VII, Issue 1942, 12 September 1888, Page 3

Word count
Tapeke kupu
2,953

EXTRACTS FROM "HANSARD." Ashburton Guardian, Volume VII, Issue 1942, 12 September 1888, Page 3

EXTRACTS FROM "HANSARD." Ashburton Guardian, Volume VII, Issue 1942, 12 September 1888, Page 3

Help

Log in or create a Papers Past website account

Use your Papers Past website account to correct newspaper text.

By creating and using this account you agree to our terms of use.

Log in with RealMe®

If you’ve used a RealMe login somewhere else, you can use it here too. If you don’t already have a username and password, just click Log in and you can choose to create one.


Log in again to continue your work

Your session has expired.

Log in again with RealMe®


Alert