Untitled

Ashburton Guardian, Volume VII, Issue 1713, 16 November 1887, Page 2

[Pj?r Pbess Association],

1 Wellington, November 15. 1 In the Houae of Representatives this 3 afternoon, Mr Thompaon asked the Government 3 if ib is true that the servioea of two pnbllo t servants have been retained by Sir Julias Yogel Blnoe tho resignation ot the late Mluiatry to the present date at the pnbllo " coat. Major Atkinson said there hid been f one messenger and one Aimed Constabulary man m the employment of Sir J. ' Yogel, and upon the Government going out Sir Julius wrote to htm respecting the Armed Constabulary man, stating that it would be a matter of personal convenience , if he oould be allowed to remain a Bhort I lime on paying his coot. Government consented to thiu v With regerd to the 1 messenger, Blr J. Yogel retained him, 1 but as soon as his services were required he would bo sent back. Sir Juliuo Yogel said he wished to Bay a few words about the matter. With regard to the Armed Constabulary man, the Premier had explained that he (Sir Juliue) pafd for hia services. With regard to the messenger, tho matter ntood m this way. Ho came to him after the new Government took oftioe, and said he bad received no ordorß from tho Government. Tho Oolonial Secretary asked if he (Sir Julius) could retain tho messenger, and he replied "No," but looommflnded him to the Government aa an eflicleut Borvant, A member like himself required more than the ordinary aßfialanoe given to other members. There wna & time when such a question would not have been allowed to bo put upon tho Order paper. The hon member proceeded - 1 have a few worda to nay with regard to tho hon member for , M&rsdnn. lam willing to make evory I allowance for hfa want of kuowledge of the world, of men and mannora — i Tho Speaker said he could not allow i such expressions. The hon member must i withdraw them. Sir J, Vogel— l am going to epeak very ] plainly. , The Speaker— Do you persist m using j those words? Yon must withdraw them. I Aa I have before said, nothing is more t essential to the proper conduct of bnalneßs c than that 'there should be proper and j gentlemanly conduct and language used between members. Sir .1. Vogel— Will you be so good, eir, t as to tell me which are the words you object to. | The Speaker — Charging an hon member ( of this House with a want of manners. i Sfr J. Vogel— Then I will withdraw the words, and say : With an obvious want of 4 knowiedgo of tisanes amongst membors • who are accustomed to good society. b T£e Spe&ker-».J moot e&y jjqw that you b

are trespassing on the indulgence of the Hodbb m the language you ate using, Mr SedJoa — No, no. Sir J Vogel — I shall be very muoh worse before I have done, The Speaker— lf the hon gentlemin will peralat la the language it will be my duty, for the first time, to exercise the authority I have by naming that gentleman. Ido not wish to do it, bat It will bo my duty, and I shall notfihnoh from it I again reqieat that the hon gentleman i will perceive that h6 ib procaeding to a [ oonroe whloh the House will not tolerate. Sir J. Vogel— Well, I will aay oaaage of society, The Speaker— l Bhall want to know by what right you claim to proceed t-j attack an hon member ? J. am qaite willing if any attack ia made upon you to give you full liberty to vindicate yourself, but having vindicated yourself there muat be moderation of vie pro towards hon members. Sir Julius Vogel— l ask why my Infirmity, which ia an aot of God, should be brought before the House when the messengers time after time have to give more attention to other members for the act of the devil or a lust of liquor, (" Order, order.") The Speaker— Sir Jaliua Vogel— Aa the language you are using towards this House ia ao disrespectful that I cannot address you as the member for a district, but I now name you as violating the good taste due from one member to another, you will now make such explanation as yoa think proper, and then withdraw while the House deals with the onne. Sir Julias Vogel— l do not believe the House will ask me to withdraw from my statement. I do not believe you understood me when I said It, The Speaker — I wish you to withdraw altogether from the House ; I have named you as infringing the righta of the House. Sir J alius Vogel— But before! withdraw I have a rlgbt to make an explanation. The Speaker — I have already intimatad that you will make such explanation as yoa think proper of the language yoa have used, and then you will withdraw. Sir Julius said be was sorry be should require more than ordinary assistance. He proceeded — It is notorious that for years past there are members so given to drink, who are occasionally drunfeardß, and who then require a great deal more extra assistance from messengers than others, and that is never brought before the House. This infirmity of mine is the act of God, and la that a matter to be paraded before 9 the House In this way, when we do not inqaire what was the extra assistance rendered to members, or the danger whloh this great building runs In being occupied by members who are notoriously from time to time given to drinking to exoess, and become habitual druokirds for the time being*. Now, sir, I don't know what I am to explain, but I have a right to make that statement. If questions of this kind are allowed, I have a right to ask why this question ia on the paper? One of the high offioera of this House was elected on hla being bound to take the pledge, and to give his resignation Into the hands of one of the Ministers

Mr Fergus — I rise to a point of order. The Speaker— l cannot allow this to go any farther, and as yon persist la attacking other membara In this way, it will be my duty to any I oinnot hear yon any more, and mast request you to withdraw. Mr Fergus — I beg to oall attention to the faol of Btrangera being m the gallery. The Speakor paid an hia intention bad been direotud to the fact, It would be his duty to order strangers to withdraw, The whole of the galleries were then oleared. Sir J. Yogel havlne retired, the Premier moved a resolution to the effeot that he be asked to apologise and admonished by the Speaker. A debate followed m whloh Mr HutohlnBon quoted May to show that the Speaker was wrong; In the procedure adopted. Mr Seddon moved an amendment — " That the ' Hansard ' report of what bad occurred up to the time of reporters withdrawing Bhould bo placed before the House previous to further debate, m ordor that membors might know what were the words complained of. Mr Hialop was spoaking at 5 30, and expressed a hopo that after the dinner adjournment they would all return m a calmer frame of mind The Houao adjourned at 5.30 to 7.30. On the House resuming at 7.30, the debato on the question of privilego was continued, strangers still being excluded from the galleries After a long discussion, lasting two hours, Mr Samuel moved the adjournment of the debate till to-morrow. The House divided — ayes, 66 ; noes, 18. The following is the division list :— AYBS, 66.

Allon Monteath Anderson Mackenzie Atkinson (Olutha) Barron Marchant Beetham McGregor Blake Mills Bruce Mitohelaon Buchanan Moat Buxton Monk Cad man Newman Carroll O'Callaghan Cowan Parata Dodsou Peacock Duncan Pyke Fergiiß Beeves (St. Fißher Albans) Fitchett llhodes Fitzherbert Bichardson Fraeer (Mataura) Fulton Koes Goldio Russell Graham Samuel Hall Seymour Hamlin Steward Htslop Stewart Hobbs Taipua Hodgkinson Tanner Izard Thompson Jackson (fllarsden) Joyce Thompson Kelly (Auckland N.) Korr Valentine Lawry Whyte Loughrey Wilson Macarthur Withey Mackenzie (Mount Ida) Noes, 18. Ballanco Mo'sa Feld wick Ormond . Fish Pearson Qrey Richardson Griinnaond (Kaiapoi) Hutchison Seddon Junes Taylor Lance 1 urn pull Larnach Walker Levest am The gal'eriea of tho House were opened aga.n a> 0.30, at which time the adjournment of tho House was under discussion.

Mr Sodcon asked whether the Premier would agree to the adjournment. Maj >r Atkinson said he could not agree to |t nil tho motion on the order paper, that tho Government business take proeedenoe tom orrow, was disposed of. Mr Seddon protested against the Promioc'a deoielon, and Bald he should nae all the forms of the JbLoaee to prevent Any business being done that night m the absence of the leader of the Oppopltion, who was prevented from taking his eeat m the House until tho question of privilege was decided. Sir J. Hall aaked as a point of order whether Sir J. Yogel was debarred from taking his seat m the House. The Speaker said he had just given instructions 1o allow tho member for Ohrißtchuroh North to take his seat pending thq decision. The motion for adjournment was lost by id to 34 ■ Major Atkinson moved that Government businosß take precedence tomorrow, be said be was qqite willing to a/jreo to an

adjournment of the House If that motion were carried, He pointed out that at the present rate of progress it was impossible to transact the necessary business unless the House were prepared to sit after I Ohristmhs. Mr O'Oalhghan asked whether the Premier's motion referred to subsequent Wednesdays Major A-klnson said he should not propose taking subsequent Wedneedaya at present, as he waa unwilling to interfere with private members 1 bualnesi, if possible, but if no better progress had baen made than that day he waa afraid he should have to ask the Home to agree to that course. Mr Dobson asked whether the Premier would not agree to take private business on Monday night 1 Major Atkins m oould not agree to that at present. Sir G. Grey said that no Government that had ever baea inoffioe had behaved more nn justly to private members than thfft m whloh the present Premier had a seat. He protested against the Pr emter'i motion. _ After farther discussion, ?« Major Atkinson said no retrenchment oould be given effeot to until the House roae. He did not look forward to a very rosy time afte* the Honae prorogued, and it would m faot be very unpleasant work for the Government for the next four or five months. He again pointed oat that It would be quite Impossible to deal with retrenchment while the House waa In session, and he hoped the House would agree to give the next sitting day for Government business. The motion was agreed to by 48 to 25. The House adjoarnad at 10.49 p.m.