PUBLIC ADVANCES ON LAND.

Ashburton Guardian, Volume V, Issue 1313, 12 August 1886, Page 2

PUBLIC ADVANCES ON LAND.

The following the Hansard report of Mr Ivesa’s speech upon the motion for the second reading of the Public Advances on Land Bill ;

Mr Ivess.—l recognise In this measure some Items of importance, and I had hoped that the Premier would treat it in a different way fr mi what he has done. The able speech he has delivered adverse to the Bill will no doubt carry great weight in|minds'of membe a; but I think the the honorable member for Port Chalmers

is entitled to the thanka of thia House, f n and to the thanks of the large bulk of b the agricultural and pastoral classes in 1 New Zealand. That honorable gentleman g was ridiculed ten years ago when he first g proposed the direct steam service. His t proposal- was laughed at by the Press, by , the people, and by their representatives In this House. Notwithstanding that, he persevered In his advocacy of the Introduction of that service, • until at last ] his efforts were crowned with success, j and we have now ample evidence of the : good that service is securing to this , colony. I venture, Sir, now to predict that, If the honorable gentleman will persevere in his advocacy of th's reform, not many years will elapse before the I members of this House will think differently, and before the electors of the colony will compel their representatives to give effect to this reform which ho has so ably advocated this evening. Ido not quite agree with the honorable gentleman when he said that we had a right to think for ourselves in this direction, because I know that In this House we are rather shy of innovi.tiocs; but wo have the experience of other countries to guide and direct us in favor of this particular measure. I need only instance England, Massachusetts, Prussia, and the Swiss Cantons, where a similar measure to this has worked vcy successfully for a number of years. Before I conclude I will treat the different systems in use in those countries, and show that what is proposed is no innovation, but that it has worked successfully for nearly half a century in many of those places ; and I say the time is ripe for the agriculturists of New Zealand to demand it here. I say it is a proper function of the State to under take. I hold that it is quite as proper a • function of the State to undertake and i control as for the State to take risks on the ) lives of individuals, or to construct rail- [ ways to carry goods, or telegraphs ; and [ that It is likely to be equally advantageous What is proposed is to serve the interest of something like two-thirds of the population of New Zealand, who are ! mainly employed in or dependent on farming pursuits. I «ay there are only a t few members In this House who properly . understand the interests of the agriculturists or pastoral holders, but the time <s j coming when the country will demand of - their representatives to seriously face this 1 matter. In the past farmers have shown i too much apathy towards their interests, o but they are now awakening ; and the fora matldn of societies such as the one recently instituted, called ( ‘ The New Zealand Farmers’ Alliance,” is a plain indication ‘ that the time is not far distant when a e measure of this kind will be demanded e by those engaged in agricultural and pase toral pursuits. What dees- New Zealand e owe to its agricultural and pastoral in--0 tereata ? I say we owe the inauguration of the direct steam service to those 0 particular Indus riea, and if it were not for 6 them we should not have a flourishing I- report of the New Z aland Shipping Cornpany laid before its shareholders this year i, Ido not allude to its success in a financial q sense, but to the fact that that company baa carried an extraordinary quantity of freight to the Old Country from this. I may be permitted briefly to read a few a figures to show the great strides that ] agriculture has made, and the necessity that exists for fostering that industry. _ For the year ending the Slat October, 1885, the Company have carried 439,554 3 carcases of mutton, 12,033 quarters of a beef, 237,806 bales of wool and skins. 245,295 sacks of flour and wheat, 29.6C9 0 sacks of barley and oats, 18 870 packages of tallow, 14,486 tons of sundries ; and during that period the Company have 3 despatched twenty-five steamers and 1 eighty sailing vessels from New Zeai land ports to England. I think that s is a convincing proof of the great strides 3 agriculture has made in this country, and r it should show the necessity for attention to its interests and demands But one f can scarcely expect that this industry will r continue to prosper while the present high f rate of interest prevails. It was only the 1 other day I noticed in the report of the . Now Zealand Trust and Agency Comnany t that for the 'ast twelve time when the agricultural aud pastoral pursuits have been most depressed—the 1 company is able to declare a dividend of i not less than 20 per cent. That has conic out of the pockets of the agricul- ( turists of Now Zealand—it has not tended to increase our wealth in any way, but was simply transferred from the pockets

1 of, one class to the pockets of another ; i while, o» the other hand, the industries i I Lave alluded to take from the storehouses of Nature, and do enormously increase the wealth of this country. Therefore I hold that ifc|js obvious that we should do all we can in the way of lessening the ruts of interest in favor of the bene and sinew of this colony.. It is evident that the real interests of the farmers cannot be promoted without the community es a whole being benefited. When that industry is prosperous the colony is prosperous, and tor me ay years to come the colony as a

whole will have to depend for the increase of its wealth on its agriculturists—on the tilling of the soil, the rearing of cattle, and the growing of wool. On that Its material prosperity will depend and anything that wid favor that will a ; d the material progress of the colony. You cannot affurd to allow these interests to be stagnant, or the effects will be very serious No enterprising man of energy

will remain here if that depression exists, bat trill quickly leave our shores. We need only cile the departure of the " Triumph " the other day, which carried arway f.om our chores some of the beat colonists we have had the good forfuno to

introduce, to prove this j and I think it is a mistake t> throw obstructions in the way of that particular enterprise. J.t was said that this ia an innovation, and that we have no authority to support the introduction of it into New Zealand, I say we have authority. It will be re=- j mombored that in England, in the year 1870, a Bill wei passed to enable a Land Commission then constituted to advance sums of money to Irish tenants to purchase farms from their landlords, to the imount of twc-thirds. I will jast read he clause, to show that the machinery is it hand if ilia Preoi'er chooses to Incor>ora*e it ip the Bill. We have omple ividence before us to make the Bill workble, inasmach as it has worked satisfac-1 1 torily in England for the last sixteen I j years, The clause to which I refer reads |

as follows i “ 44. The Board, if they are satisfied with the security, may advance to any tenant, for the purpose of purchas? iog bis holding in pursuance of this Aet, any sum not exceeding two-thirds of the price ot such holding ; and upon an order being made by the Civil Bill Court to that effect, and upon such advance being made by the Board, such holding shall be deemed to be charged wifh an anna'ty of five pounds for every hundred pounds ojl such advance, and so on in proportion for any less sum, such annuity to be limited iu favor of the Board, and to be declared to be repayable in the term of thirty-five

years.” There are a number of machinery clausos in the English Act which might be made suitable to New Zealand If the

' Government were desirous of giving r ff;ct to the Bill. She Premier says it ia not the intention of the honorable gentleman who introduced the Bill to proceed farther with it than the second reading. I hold that, if the House affirms the principle of the measure by a considerable majority, it will bo the bounden duty of the G.vernmemt to give effjct to the expressed wishes of the House. I hold that discussions, of this kicd are unprofitable unless they are followed by some practical result. The Government is appointed to carry out the will of this House and of the people, and therefore a private member is placed in great difficulty in Introducing a reform of this nature unless the Government support it Bot, Sir, we have the power in our own hands, and if we cannot command the Govern merit, or if they refuse to carry out our wishes, it is our .duty to remove them and place men there who will act for the interest of the colony. It is perhaps unwise to prolong a disouseion of this kind ; but it is a matter which affects an Industry of this colony ao seriously that I may be pardoned if I prolong my remarks to a greater length than honorable members might have expected. It struck me, when the honorable member for Waimea rose to support the Bill, that we might very well have applied to him the old familiar saying, "Save me from my friends." Sir, such support as lis is not required. We should approach the subject with all seriousness, because there are, unfortunately, too many agriculturists In this colony who, during the last two or three years, have been deprived of their bomea by the weight of the burdens which have been placed upon them. Therefore thia is a matter which should not be approached in a. spirit of ridicule, as the honorable member for Waimea approachei it. The amount of exports which this colony is annually sending out is rather extraordinary, and if I point out some few I fai ts with regard to them it will convince this H(U'e and the country of th© I necessity for fostering tho agricultural welfare of the country In every way. In 1884 our exports of" wheat foil off bv 1,346,656 bushels, and of oats 343,369 buahels. That is a very serious matter, and it is due mainly to the rate of interest Had interest been at a lower rate, I am quire .enre the farmer* wonld have been encouraged to caltivate larger areas. Allueion has been made to the fact that the rate of interest in England is 2A p r cert, and yet the Premier says "that the Bill would not reduce the rate of intsrest now payable in the colony by more than i otl per cent. Ido not think that statement cm he borne out by fact', for, if the Government appointed a Board to administer the fnnd, I think they could got the money in England at 3 per cent at all events, end then they could lend It ont to the farmers a"; 4 or 5 per cent; so thit there would be a profit to the Board, and it would enable the farmers to carry on their work. The wool industry is also a very important one. The value of exports of wool in 1885 was £3,206.360, »nd the previous year it had been £3 267,527, showing that there was a slight falling-off. Thsre are many other causes which cripple the agricultural- industry besides the high rate of Interest, and I did hope that the honorable member for Port Chalmers would |have p'oposed the appointment rf a Board which should hive some voice in regulating tho railway freights. I know that the high ra es of fi eight have as much to do with the depression among tho farmers a? any other cause. I thiok our railways should be worked \»irh a v ew of assisting that industry more than with a view of their being a taxing-machine. • I nead only point to the cheap rates in India have done in the way of promoting agriculture. There the rates are placed at the lowest possible amount, and the industrial products of the country are carried to the diff l »reri t , ports and centres at a minimum charge. The consequence is that the cultivation of these particular products is a profitable source of income. In 18f 5 the H u*e of Commons passed an Act to enable the Land Commission to advance a farther sum of fire millions sterling in favor of Irish tenants, to enable them to purchase farms. There is legisla'ion which should gnide us. Then, again, there baa been established in England a Public Works Commission, to which, during its existence, fifty millions has been advanced by the English Government for various purposes, among which are Harbor Boards' harbor works, canal companies, dwelling associations to ertct workmen's cottages, bodies to erect agricultural laborers' dwellings, and so fortb. To these bodies men'y is advanced by that Commission. The Public Works Loans Commirslon report for 1882-83 shows that 7l'l advances were made during that year, amounting together to £1,773,385. Of that amount, £IOO,OOO was advanced to the Corporation of Birmingham for the erection of artisans' and laborers' dwellings, repayable in twenty years, at 3£ per cent. £114.500 was advanced for dwellings for laboring classes as follows : £IO,OOO to the Improved Industrial Dwellings Company for thirty years, at 4 per cent; £4,500 to the Glamorganshire Workman's Cottage Company for forty years, at 4 per cent ; and £IOO,OOO to the Peabody Trustees for the erection of dwellings upon freehold land, for fifteen years, at 3& per cent. The Commissioners' report further shows that not less than £SO 511,425 has been advanced by them eince their appointment by tha English Government. Therefore I think the argnment advarced by the Premier—that the State should not undertake the advancing ■of money—must fall to the ground. Whfn we find a great country like England coming forward and assisting the humble, struggling agriculturists by making small advances of from £SO upwards to them, New Zealand should not be afraid of such an example. I have no patience with a reformer who has gained sjich distinction in this ountry as the Premier, who pimes forward with such slighting remarks agai st a scheme of this nature, which has been advocated in so | serious a tone in favour of the unfortunate agriculturists. I had hoped that the remarks of the Premier would be of a different character. If he represented an agricultural district and had seen the struggles and sufferings of the settlers, Instead of representing a constituency whioh is floating in wealth, he would have treated the House to a very different dissertation this evening. I have seen the condition of things in Canterbury for the last five years, and I say that the greatest sympathy la due to the agriculturists who hare done so much to colonise that part of the country, who are now sufferinsj'fromlsuch great depression, and who, deserve grea'er sympathy from this House than that which has been extended to them in the contemptuous remarks that have been made this evening. There Is another experience with which I shall trouble the House before I sit down. In Prussia there was an eminent statesman named Stein, whose name ia familiar to every member of the House. Immediately after the dark days in that country he came forward with agrarian reform, and made a proposal, was favorably considered by the King and Council j but

many years passed before effect waa given to it, and it waa only in 1807 that the memorable edict came into operation. He wis shortly afterwards exiled by Napoleon, and it was only when other agrarian reformers came forward and followed him that any substantial relief was

given, la 1860 Prussia passed an Act by which rent-charges were made com palsorily redeemable either by Immediate

payment of a capital sum equal to eighteen years’ purchase or by a payment of 4-i per cent for fifty-six years, or 5 per cent for forty-one years, on a capital amounting

to twenty years’ purchase tf the rent* charge. The Prussian statesmen did not atop there. They resolved to estal lish ft land bank. Banks were established in each of tie provinces, and they were managed by a manager and the necessary staff, appointed by the Government and under Government supervision. The bank advanced money on debentures representing twenty years’ purchase of the annual rent-charge, bearing 4 per cent interest, p>yabla half-yearly. The peasant, along with the rates and taxes, paid over to the bank onetwelfih of the amonnt, calculated at 5 or 4 per cent upon the annual rent, according as he elected to free hie lend whether in forty or fiftysix years j and daring the fifteen years after the introduction of the land bank no less ’a sum than £2,000,000 was paid off. And the debentures were issued during tbat period to an amount of something like twelve millions, of which nearly one e : xUi had been liquidated within the period I name : and in 1865 the banka were receiving nearly threequarters of a m ! ’lion od account of rent, or there was nearly one-fouith paid to free rent-charges redeemable in «ix j months. To show the Premier that | this is no noveHy in other countries, it will be remembered tbat, at the request of the honorable member for Port Chalmers, the Premier wrote to the Agent-General for information concerning the working of the land-mortgage banks in the Swiss Cant >ns. I shall n>t attempt to weary tha Hcusa by reading the documents, hot there is one short letter written by an official empl yed in a landmot.gage bank which, 1 think, will convey the whole meaning of the system to this House, give honorable members an idea as to how successfully that measure has worked for tfce last forty years past in the virions Cantons. The extract is j as follows : | “ Extract from a Letter from an Official in the Berne Land mortgage Bank. “ Giisse Mypothecaire.

“We grant loans on mortgage—on lands for about two-thirds of estimated ground tax value ; on bouses, for about half of the fire-insurance amount on tu'lHoga. The borrowers have to pay 4£ per cent interest at present per annum on the amount of the loan, besides | per cent t S the loan every yesr—in al, 5 per cent per annum. When applying for a loan, a description of the object of mortgage by a notary has to be handed in, which is then thorough y examined, if ratified by the ‘ Greffier da Tribunal’ of the respective locality. When everything is found in order, then the loan is granted by onr directors, who meet once a week to discuss business on hand. Ours i», I believe, the only mortgage bans in Switzerland with State guarantee, the others being alt private concerns. We cannot Icso anything, as the commune wherein tbe object of mortgage is situated bes to take over the debt should any born war bo unable to continue p ym nt •To obtain cash to pay the loans, besides the subsidy from the Cantonal Government, we issue bonds for deposits at present at the rate of 3f per cent for six months certain, anu savings-bank books at S£ per cent, tba former with yearly coupons. For tba last few years we have always bad too much money fliwing in.” Now, that is tbe latest report from the papers which the Premier Instructed the Agent-General to forward to this colbny. In Massachusetts the Treasurer is em - pcw.;red by st tute to make advances on mtrtgage secured to the Ccmmonwealth It will thus be seen that I have now quoted no fewer than four countries where tbe State makes advances to companies and individuals. I do expect, and the honorable member for Fort Chalmers expected, some ridicule to be paaced on ns for speaking in favor of this reform ; but I care net how much ridicule is cast npon me becau e- I advocate reforms of this nature. But theques'ion will have to be considered. We onnot afford to wait. There is a genera! election cl se at hand, and the feeling is so strong smong the farmers of tbis country that t-je reprereatatives of the people will insist before long that the Government shall give at least a trial to a measure which is so successfully worked in tbe four countries I have this evecing cited ; and I do hope that this Bill will be read the second time, that the Government daring the recess will give the matter their earnest and close consideration, and that the result will be that in a short time we shall have the pleasure of placing an Act of this kind on th<* Statute Book of New Zealand,