PUBLIC ADVANCES ON LAND.

Ashburton Guardian, Volume V, Issue 1312, 11 August 1886, Page 2

PUBLIC ADVANCES ON LAND.

The following; la the Hansard report of Major Steward’s speech upon the motion for the second rending of the Public Advances on Land Bill : Major Steward.—l feel that, representing an agricultural district which takes a great interest in this question, it is my duty to say a few words on this Bill, The honorable member for Cavetsham said that this Bill was the outcome of the borrowing policy. I think that if he had said that it was the outcome of the present depression among the agriculturist! it would be nearer the mark ; although very likely he would retort and say that he traced that depression to the borrowing policy. There are other factors that enter into the case, the largest of which, I think, is the fall in prices. That the farmers are taking a very earnest interest in the question now before the House is very natural, inasmuch as, feeling the shoe pinch, they are led to seek in every pos slble way to reduce the burdens now pressing upon them. I feel sure that the honorable member for Port Chalmers will, whether he succeed in carrying his Bill this session or not, not only deserve but earn the thanks of the whole country for, at any rate, an honest attempt to solve this portion of their difficulties for them. Now, with regard to the Bill Itse’f, I will say, at the outset, that I Intend to vote for the second reading. The honorable member has himself said that be does not expect to get it farther than its present stage this session. Under these circumstances 1 think that oven those who may differ from him as to the mode in which be seeks to relieve the farmers may give him a vote in the same direction that 1 shall, as an affirmation bf the earnest wish of this Haase to assist a large class of the agricultural community by every means in its power. Certain objections which have been made have an amount of weights Certain others I confess I think are very easily disposed of, and I may add that they are very contradictory. The honorable member for Waimea, who generally speaks with a great deal of commonsense, began by saying that those who, owing to faulty surveys, were suable to bring their land under the operation of the Land Transfer Act could not lake advantage of the provisions of this Bill. He seemed to indicate that there were a great many persons in that case. He went onto say that those who had borrowed np to the hilt also could not take advantage of this Bill. That is, uoquestloniy, true, and it is one of the chief recommendations of the Bill, viewed from a ceitain standpoint. Then, after arguing that the Bill would be useless because there were so many persons who could not avail themselves of it, he went on to argue that the immediate effect of the Bill would be to increase the Indebtedness of the colony

by sixty or seventy millions. If the Bill could not be made use of, then this indebtedness could not by any possibility accrue. Consequently, both arguments of the honorable gentleman cannot be maintained. Then ho Immediately went on to argue that persons who obtained loans under authority of this Bill would clear out with the money. Well, seeing that It is not possible to advance more than 50 per cent of the value of the property, the honorable gentleman’s argument is that a man would clear out with only half the value of his property. That, again, is a position *hat connot for a moment be m detained. Then, the honorable member for Mount Ida—who invariably makes good argumentative speeches, which it is really a pleasure to listen to—took up the position that It was quite possible that the farms falling into the hands of the State could not be again sold by the Slate; and he asked, 41 What, then, are we to do ? Is the State to undertake to farm its own land T’ I think he raised a difficulty which is a purely imaginary one, inasmuch as only one-half of the value- of a property will be advanced and if the property falls Into the bands of the mortgage In this case the Government —it is inconceivable that the State should be unable to obtain theamoant which it has advanced upon the property. Surely, wiihin the course of a few months the value of land la not going to depreciate to the enormous extent of 50 per cent. It baa done so in the past, because land has been at a fictitious value. But now I presume that things have pretty much reach their level. I contend that there is an ample margin of seenrity, and that the difficulty my honorable friend sees would only occur in so few instances as I not to be worth taking into account.. My | honorable friend the member for Bangitikei, speaking of clause T of the Bill, which proposes to give to the holders of the debentures to be issued by the State to the persons obtaining loans the power of converting those debentures into notes which would be a legal tender in the Colony of New Zealand, argued t very strongly against the use of any paper money whatsoever, aud pointed to Haytl, where he says that some years ago he found this extraordinary state of things ; that a currency dollar purchased 180 dollar bills of the Government.

The inference from bis argument was that precisely the same thing, if not to the same extent, would follow with regard to these promissory notes to be issued by the Government of New Zealand ; but he forgot that in this case the note* would be reconverlible into debentures, which debentures would have an immediately realizable value, and could be disposed of at, or possibly above, par. That, I think, makes all the difference as between a mere promise to pay and the nets provided for inthe present Bill, With regard to the possibility of obtaining anything like their nominal value for these debentures, let me here say that,

if there is the ultimate certainty of obtaining gold, the equivalent value which the note represents, then there coaid be no more depreciation than the amount of interest for the time occupied In the operation. It is an absolute fact that, if this Bill were carried exactly as it stands, those notes would be again convertible into debentures which, every one will adipit, would have a realisable value in the London market at very

nearly par, poaaib’y over. The honorable member for Invercargill haa referred to the floating of an Invercargill loan. There was a premium of 1$ per cent, and a fraction over upon the debentures Issued by that municipal body. Surely, then, it is Inconceivable that the of the Colony of Heir Zealand, bearing also 4$ per cent interest, and having behind them, besides the general security of the colony, the special security of theSe lands mortgaged to the Stite, should not command at least as good a price as tho: a of a municipality in the colony. The honorable member for Waikouaitl Instanced the sale of the scrip that was issued for the purchase of land, and went on to argue that, because that scrip was purchasable at a very small proportional value to that which It profeaed to represent, the same thing would follow with regard to debentures of notes Issued under the authority of the Act. Hef'rgotthat he was comparing things that are different in essence, for ,the scrip be referred to could only I.a exercised for one particular purpose—namely, the purchase of Government land —and, fuither, that aorip bore no interest. In this case we have a promise to pay in notes which can be immediately exchanged for instruments bearing interest from the moment th’y get into the holder’s pos sesjiioif. | could go on ai considerable length jnyto the yarjous provisions of the Sill, but I 09 not think ft necessary to do so, as everything in thp Sill was very ably explained by other honorable members. I will only say that, great as may be the mining interest, and great as may be the manufacturing Interest, in this country, unquestionably the chief interest :

ta the country is Its agricultural interest. In one of the midland counties, at certain cross-'oadi, there is a publichouse over which there hanga an old-fashioned sign of ‘‘The Five Alla,” There are the figures of a king, of a soldier, of a parson, of a lawyer, and of a farmer ; and underneath the respective figures are written thesij lines; “I govern all. I fight for all. 1 pray for all. I plead for allAnd I pay for all." • Now there, is a great | deal of truth in that. The foundation of j all Is the prosperity of the agricultural j and producing interests of the country, and I do not think that this House has thrown away by any means the few hours [ that we have spent in discussing what I . I believe to be itn honest attempt on the I part of my honourable friend to lift 1 | something of the harden from the backs J of those engaged in agricultural pursuits | In New Zealand.