PUBLIC ADVANCES ON LAND.

Ashburton Guardian, Volume V, Issue 1311, 10 August 1886, Page 3

PUBLIC ADVANCES ON LAND.

The following la the JSamard report of Ur Walker’s speech upon the motion for the second reading of the Public Advances on Land Bill : Mr Walker.—l think the thanks of the House are due to the honorable member lor Port Chalmers for bringing thU Bill before the House, and affording discussion on subjects which are moatundoubetiy occupying the attention of the country, If not of this Bonsa, Most undoubtedly the country will not endorse come of the opinions we hare he: ri to-night It h< s been said that this Uouas ought not to concern itself with what mainly affects the agricultural interest, Kr. n the towns will not endorse the opinion that the agricultural Interest is one that need not bo taken care of or giren assistance ; because the towns must recognize that the whole prosperity of this country depends upon the prosperity of the country districts; and, if the farmers are net making money ofi their land, most assuredly there will be no money to share among the tradesmen and artisans of the towns. Therefore I maintain that agriculture stands in a very different position {indeed from any other pursuit, in this country more especially, but in all countries. In spite of political science the exigencies of circumstances compel the State to take particular care of the fortunes of those who cultivate the soil; and It is remarkable that nearly every great State has bad agrarian toubles at some time or other, and history shows that those States that have best met those troubles have had the longest prosperity. Therefore it la not beneath the position < t this House that wo should discuss on the present occasion a Bill of this nature. At the same time the misfortune under which we labor is that a matter cf this kind cannot very well be brought forward by BUI by a piivate mem l er, because it is recognised that unless a measure of this importance la taken up by the Government it has very little chance cf being passed. That, Sir,(is not the fault of the honorable member for Port Chalmers. He knew there was "no other way cf bringing this matter prominently before has the House and the country, and he only done his duty in p’acing his Bent : menta in the shape of a Bill before 'the House. It is recognised that the farmers have not been prospering as they deserved daring the last few years. It is to be hoped th«t the greater part of tbSm are brgh jHng to weather the storms and it is tobe h-ipeu that many of them will never forgot the severe lesson which they have learned, and, if possible, that they will never even have Tr coarse to the easier . method of borrowing which the honorable member for Port Chalmers has proposed. I trust the farmeaa will have learned the lesson never to borrow again if they can help it. It has bean said that the moderate amount which may be borrowed under the provisions of this Bill would not suffice to blear off the liabilities of many of those who are most heavily mortgaged. Th<t nay be to; but at all evantq it will do this : It will give the man who is living within his means a chance of borrowing money not at exorbitant interest, and.jin JsnohJa manner that it will be a wholesome assistance to him In the work he is doing on his tarm. 1 admit that it Is a misfortune that we cannot deal with the position of those men who are more heavily involved ; but, at the same time, it 1s no fauU cf the present Bill. It does not go an far es perhaps some might wish ; but that is, at all events, a fault on the aide of prude ce, and shows the c re with which the honorable member has framed the Bill. I think it is an evidence of the 1 present position t f the agricultural settlers of this country that we have had more < than one expedient proposed for the relief I of the Industry. There is the Bill of the 1 honorable member for Auckland. East the object of which is to provide settlers in want of land with land in favorable situations on reasonable terms That is one expedient for relieving the present diffi catties. We have the Bill before ns, the object of which is to enable money to' be obtained by farmers on mortgage on good terms. There is another question—a question to my mind-pethapa of more practical Importance and more necessary than any that has yet come before the House, but it is one which has been largely agitated throughout the country, and that ia, whether some more equitable system of adjusting rents cannot be devised than any that is at present used in this 1 country. If it were simply a question between private landlord and tenant, then perhaps it might be said that it was one ] of those things the settlement of which should be left to private contrac 1 . But inasmuch as the State is the largest landlord in the country, and as we have public : bodies—created corporations—letting an enormous area of land in the shape of reserves for public purposes, it is quite a different thing. We know that this session there have been tenants of the • State petitioning this House for relief < from what they believe to be ex- I orbitant rants; and I say that this I question of rents la one which this 1 House cannot he'p facing in some shape 1 pr form ; and I believe, if the State took 1 itup in a practical way, an issue might 1 be found that would do a great deal to i remove the difficulties of these settlers, 1 and which wou'd also, in all probability, ' permanently settle the question of rent as i between private landlords and tenants in this country; and thus this most trouble- i some question would be prevented from 1 coming up In the future and disturbing all i oar political and social relations as it is doing in older countries. The main difficulty in connection with ordinary tenancy in this country, or in any country -where the tenure is a long one, is that the laud {a usually obtained only after keen competition, which invariably results in placing the farmer In the position of a' speculator. Instead of having his cent ; fixed at such a rate that, according to the seasons, ha might reasonably be expected i to be able to pay it with a profit, according to bis Judgment, ha Is obliged to make engagements depending on the value of prospective crops and the uncertainties of future seasons, which, in spite of all bis prudence and knowledge, force him into the position of a speculator in corn and other produce. That is not farming as It ought to be. It is not the business of a farmer to depend on the price of wheat being 5s or 2s 6d a bushel; it is not the business of a farmer to speculate whether wool will be Is fid or fid a pound. Therefore I say that if some method con'd 1 e devised by which rents puuld adjust themselves each year aoccordfpg |o the gveraga price of the products of the country rye should be getting a system which would be fair to the landlord and fair to the tenant, and would prevent there ever being here those agrarian difficulties which we know there are in other countries, This is not a novelty, and it is ppt a system of which it can be said that i experience hg9 shown it will not work. I j pan refer to the experience of Scotland, a cpnntry which can "shew ns many good practical examples in law and business There are in that country what are pilled the Fiats Courts, which, no doubt, the Premier is well acquainted with, and wb'ob 1 think he will admit have worked exceedingly fairly In many respects. I see so teason why a tenant, instead of binding himself to pay a certain number of pounds sterling per annum, should net simply covenant to pay the value of so many bushels of wheat or so many pounds of ■wool, the average value being decided by a Court sitting at the b’ginning of the season. Tfabt Isjthe3«yatera of the Fiara Court 'ln Scotland, the questions submitted to it being decided by the Sheriff, and, if bo wishes It, by a jury. That system has worked satisfactorily for hundreds of years in Scotland, and 1 think that if It were adopted in this country * |t would prove satisfactory hare. That I

think, is another point which may well be considered in reference to ths position of farming in this conntiy, because I believe that.if snob a system were adop'ed with regard to our State tenants and the tenants of our reserves and if It were found to work out well iu practice, in all probability a similar system would be adopted es fair and equitable to all parties in connection with the private letting and renting of land. I therefore I venture to submit this point as one which, I think, is worthy of the attention of the House in discussing this question of the present position of farmers in New Zealand. Another point may a’so bo eon sidered ; but it is one wb'oh I do not know to have been disc’ tied except ns a theory ; still, it is a theory based, I 'h ek, on a sound principle, and therefore it at all events commends itself to our notice. It is, whether it is' fair that a man who has borrowed money in gold when the purchasing-power of gold ha' been high should be compelled to pay bsck the same amount when the purchasing-power is low. i Thera may during the currency of a mortgage be a depreciation equal to 5 J per cent, in the purchasing-power of gold, and therefore the question is one of Importance. As far as 1 know, this question has never been decided by practice, I and therefore I submit it only as a theory; but I think it is a theory which, in prnciple, is sound enough, and it might be equally to the advantage of both the borrower and the lender if a practice were founded on it ; because I contend that in all these transactions it is not so much a higher or lower rate of Interest which the lenierlcoks at as the question of the perfect security of the payment, both of principal and interest ; and (he greater the confidence is between the lender and the borrower the more satisfactc rjr it must be to both. That, an adjustment based on the differing valus of gold would bo an innovation may, perhaps, 'bo true ; but still, if the theory is founded on pracic*! truth, there la no reason why it should not be a fart >r iu the c nsideratlon. All must admit the extreme ability with which the Premier handled bis subject to-night, and what ho said as to the true functions

I of the State I most ordially agree with. Most certainly we have in this country man} instances of the State undertaking func ions wh : ch the State should no properly undertake. Take, for instance, the question of railway management. I think the experience of moat paits of the colony shows th it railway management is a function which the State finds itself unable properly lo control. But, while admitting that it is most unwise to allow the State ti burden itself with functions that do not properly belong to it, and which may be thoroughly well undertaken by private enterprise, still At the sumo time I cannot admit that the fun tton of lending mm 7 to farmers is one whioh can be shown to be outside the proper d&ties of the State. At all events, the honorable member fur Wakanui, In his .•paech this evening—a speech which evinced great care aud industry in c .Uect ing facts and figures—has shown us that in many countries these land bat ks have been established with satisfactory results. And I have yet to learn that we are to be governed In this country by principles which reduce the Interest of the State as much as possible In the welfare ot its citizens. I Know there is a school of political economy which endesvcurs to treat all Buoh questions rs more cf universal than of particular interest; but I prefer the doctrines of thosn writers who make the interest of its c t'zens the first interest of the Sta'e ; and, if it can be shown that the interest of the cit'z ns of this country can be benefited by sush State interference as hat been Insieted on tc-night, I, for one, In ppite of all the books and all the dogmas, shall be found on the-side of those who support it.