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112. But what is your opinion as a praotical man ?—Well, the tunnel certainly showed flattening on top of the arch as if it had been crushed down. 113. Suppose you took that sill away in heavy ground, would you consider the tunnel unsafe ? —I would. 114. Would you consider that the effect of its being taken away would be that all this brickwork would come down ? —Well, if it came down I should attribute it to that. 115. You said you had verbal instructions from Mr. Vickerman, the District Engineer, to leave the sills in ?—Well, all that he wished to be done was done. I consider that all I did was approved of by the department —that I had their full approval. 116. But did you have verbal instructions from Mr. Vickerman to leave those minor sills in ? — They were left in by his tacit approval. 117. He gave you verbal instructions to leave the minor sills in ? —He said until the holes were filled up he did not consider the brickwork finished. 118. Were there any weep-holes left in it or not ? —I do not believe there were ;I am not very certain about it. I had weep-holes in some tunnels I was in. 119. But is not it a general thing to leave weep-holes in ?—lt is a matter of opinion about it. 120. You where there when the contract was finished ?—I was there when the tunnel was put through. 121. You have a general knowledge of Government specifications?— Yes, pretty fair. 122. Were you on that contract that Cleghorn, Forrest, and McGee carried out ?—Yes. 123. There were some slips on that ?—Yes. 124. Were you aware that there was a petition came before Parliament in connection with those slips—in 1894, I think ? —I was aware that there was some petition, but I did not know the details of it. 125. You know the slips on the Makarau contract ?—Yes. 126. Would you attribute the cause of the slips to steepness of slope in that particular ground? —Well, certainly in that class of country the angle of the slope was not flat enough to support itself. 127. Were there any catch-water drains there?— They were carried away in some places. 128. Had you not to examine these catch-water drains occasionally ?—Well, I went up there occasionally. Where there was a slip taking place I would go up and have a look at it. 129. But where they were not carried away, did you always find these catch-water drains clean ? —On the tops of the hills they were all right. 130. But, however, the slips went from behind the catch-water drains?— Yes. 131. Now, coming to the nature of the ground. First of all, there was no invert in that tunnel ?—No invert provided for. 132. Would you consider that the contractor should receive more payment for excavating that invert ?—As a contaactor, I should charge more for it myself. If I was managing for a contractor I should also charge more ; I know it is worth more. 133. And also for the extra ring and lining ? —Yes. 134. Do you think that is also worth more ?—Yes. 135. Do you think the excavation was worth more than the excavation you had in sandstone rock? —Yes; owing to the extra strength and quantity of timber required. 136. It slipped, up to the surface, did it not?— Yes; there was a great deal of pressure on the top. 137. A greater quantity of stuff would have to be taken out of the tunnel on that account?— Well, there are parts of the tunnel where there would have to be a considerable quantity extra taken out. 138. There is one tunnel where the wing-wall was not sufficient to resist the strain on it ?— Well, the fact is the bricks were placed at an angle, and they were shorn through as if they had been taken off by a cross-cut level. The base of one wall was laid at an angle, which in itself was wrong, and the wing-wall was shorn off, turned inwards, and slightly uprighted ; but it cut the bricks every one of them almost like a wedge. They were not removed from their beds. 139. Were the bricks put in according to the plan and specification ?—I paid particular attention to this. 140. Do you attribute the slip to the fact of the wing-wall not being strong enough originally ? Do you think that was the cause of that slip coming down? —No; it was the cause of the wing-wall coming away^ —the slip coming away. 141. Had the wall been strong enough, would it have stopped it?— Well, that wing-wall was strong enough in almost any ground, but in that particular place it was too heavy for it. A few feet away from this the ground is very heavy, going back up the hill. I considered this wing-wall particularly strong, and anything that carried it away was very heavy. 142. Was that batter taken down from Ito 1 ?—I think it had been, but it was taken away to save timbers. The slip was coming down almost in a series of steps. It was all quietly on the move. 143. Did you, as a Government Inspector, consider that that ground required a flatter slope than 1 to 1 ? —At that particular place, Yes. 144. It would not stand at Ito 1 there ?—No ; certainly it would not stand at that. It was very heavy country. 145. It was not the fault of deficient drainage ?—No ; it carried away the drains. 146. Mr. tlatman.] It has been stated that in this ground you could not get the sole-plate down?—-I had no knowledge of it. 147. Is it necessary that these uprights [pointing them out on the plan] should stand in the position in which they are placed on this plan ?— Yes, with that system of work.