YESTERDAY'S PARLIAMENT.

Nelson Evening Mail, Volume XVI, Issue 165, 13 July 1881, Page 4

YESTERDAY'S PARLIAMENT.

Wellington, July 12. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. In the C-'U-ril tc-cUy ?!>e Members Bi'' ""a 0 r er-<\ th- fi-*? ♦ *rr*f>. RppVrn- <o Cn'. B.*.f, M, WJif-h'k'-r gsil !!•<■•? t\:- r-r??* in "!:f> r - CPnt CR**e of r 1C" !-'i:r t'r? irs r. »hnn'irg g-.'iery af Thee a? fully justified the VFrricf of acci^f nfal «Vnth. Mr Brhire***r-'s m^'icn, tl*.t in th? ©pinion of the Q: or cil fares? p.n * freieh'B on r- ilvrnyo si ould, as fir aprncticablp, wiil nut pn'eih'pe los?, be so ft3j aste-* qfi Jo enable ilie lines to crmpete wiih outside carrying ccmpEme*? was apreed to. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Thp Hmirp m.pt at 2 30. Mr - McDonald pave notice that he would move t?»t (he functions of lb* Weete Lacda Boards should be veetei' in *he Orunfy Coucrils. Mr B^in Rsve notice t! at lie would BEk it the Govfrnmrnt intended to rc80Qse the nominated ia*mi^ ration system. Mr Andrews pave notice of a mcticn in favor of the rext session of Parli;-un-fnt being held in Cbrisic'iurrh. RppHirg to a question put, the Hod Mr Hall Plated ! ia f v would he dttr*mentil to the psblio internet at prtscci to produce a certain defpfsfrh from (he Govfrnfir to the Iropfriel Cover H-nun' •with reference to th 1 ? dete-jtioG of the Maori prisoners. Steps brd leen tsktn to cifpoee ol the Otaira Bioek, a portion on the d: - ferred payment system at 30s upset price, acd the rerraiut'er fnr cash p ycnec's ; but tl c bnd could rot bt op*"ne*i for eale 'or tbrpe mont hp. The Government intended to equa'ipb the salaries of the Govercmeci officials tbrouy! not the Colony. In tbe pret-en! etkte of ire c-jse, the Gov-mmtnt conei'eret that it would be unwise fo reduce the price cf rut* 1 lands on the W^et Coa>t aB rf-ccrjj-mended by the L--nJ Board of Wes:land, or otherwise unluly sthr-uiate the disposal cf lands in n possibly aurifi-r---one country. The Government la 1 not paid th*■whole of tbe cost of lhe Wellit gtoiHo6p.it el, end vtith regard to the txpenie of maintenance, it had beet placed en the same footing as mn&t c the other hospitals in the cc!ony tinct the snEppnsion of the Bubeidie*. A'thooob not prepared to pive a definite answer, the Government hpd n< doubt that satisfactory arrangement* would be made aiithorising the railway guards on the Neleon railway Ute t< issoe psssengfr tickets avsiLble fur ibt whole cf tie joorcev. The foilowicg B:l!s were introdoce a n d »e»i a fi*Bt lim*-: — Redaction oi Miier-' Rights ct-f-rpt-f; to em- n 1 !_' E.D-r-aiir.n At, 1877; (Mr P-k.), tc exter^ the Fiatifbis-.- io VV(.miri; (D Wbllie) ; the AtGed ConFSfir.ul--.ry. Act, 1857, Amendment ; (Mr J) Liotoor). The L'cfc&icp Biil wae re-cem_ii(te-for consu'esaticD of "^ihuffs 12 a» d 22 to 28. inclose. «nr 30, 21 32, 37, 54, 81, 152, 126, 127, 141, 194 : &nd 218 On Clause 12, sa tiiiend merit t( make the flection of L!cen?irg Ctmmitteee Trifnrii''!. i: st< ed of aLnua-. wes rfj c cted by £8 to 34. The etDH ■waa th^n amendc-d !o notke tie cost ci elections fhargeßtie to distriet^. Cani-e 28, prevenusg cry licensef having an interest in rcore than ode licent-e, was an^ecded to as rot to apply to firtr.B tn a div'sion of 46 to 20, acd then i*. wsa siruck out eltogether. On ClauEe 29, Mr Ru--Bell moved the omission oi club iicecsee, tut this was lest en a division oi 37 to 18. The Hoore «< jr.utned at 5.30., ano resomFd at 7 30 p.m. Tte Licpn.U'P Bill wes farther cori. -idered in Ccmn-itee. Oo Clause 29, Mr Phi's moiion to reinstate tho bottle licecßP waa rejected, on a divieioo, b} 38 to 31. Mr Oliver moved to strike ont the New Zealand license, which wa loat ty 33 to 32. Mr Stewart movpd to insert a nevi anb-EectioD, that bottle licetses be granted in sucb districts as they at preeent fxiet io, atd tbis waa carried by 36 to 35. Prr^rtee was reported on the Licencing Bill. Mejor A'kicson moved the seccno reat'ipe ol the Crown and Native L : n h Ratiofc Bill. In doing so be wii-hed to efate tbe views of tie Govc-rnmen' on the whole question of Locil Self- Government, wbich he believed was agitating the mieds of membr-n--a great deal mere thao it was the minds of the country. He did not intend to press tha second reading oi tbe Bill that night, but the first difiiculty in regard to the question w-ib, that no two members seemed agreert as to wbat Loe&l Government was. Thus Sir George Grey wanted the recst&blighment oi Provincialism, nm Local Govercment, Mr Woog'b desire •was for tbe re ea'ablishnient of sevi r :igc atatcfi witb a Federel Governm*;ct, aud then Mr Ormocd wanted not Local Government, bot something between Local Goverr. ment and General Government, acd Mr Murray wen ted semetbicg else. None oi them touched tbe real question of Local Government, and if members wanted something eiee tbey ehe old ray what it was, end eai! it by ife proper seme, acd not mis-call it Local Government. The Government held that tbe country bad pot Lota! Government already. If the people -were consulted, Cooniiea and Boad Boards wculd remain the Lccal Government of the country. What the coontry desired was simplification of what it already pceEessed— its extension in certain directions, and sufficient funds to work *witb. He denied the aSßertion irequtntly made that Local Government bad disappeared ■with the province**, and that ell local admiriietrative powers bad been cectred in Wellington. He held a rc:ura cl all local powers so centred, snd of all the administrative Provincial Acts only twenty s-ue now administered from Wellington, and of iheee, thirteen muet, ncder any circumstances, be so administered as beiog of general application. Of tbe other seven, four might be dealt with locally. These were Animals Protection, Licensing, Cemetfjiee, acd Aqctiooeere, Tbe others

w?re Lerd, Neglected Children, and Bankruptcy. The remaining Acts we-f* usher administered lr-cslly or jointly, s_d must necessarily be cc. liut-ad of cectralisin-?, the Govern^. rrert btd decentridised, snd were de-cet-tri.'i.-ir-f; tbe rv'tQH.i-.irj-.Uon ts far | -.« p.fsi.ip, Ef,d had pi<?en the Ioc ; *l 'of-dies rm.ry powers f-;imer!y can-'?*uli:-ed in the provircc-P. As to Mr Oro-cmi'd ft"i!c-(."*itior.s that nrievances ! n ' row ro rcsr-edy, H was the fnsl doty c.t 'h a Kcuse (o remedy all gteivenCrS, *nc! if iLpv did ret do it they should, Thoy cotli rot hand over the duty to ipy ufsrior body. He reviewed at ienpth the: prefeot cccs*:itution of both jeneral end locftl povtrniDg bodice. the first quta>ion was, wera all these bodies rceei-eary ; could they not be iir-blgemi'ted and made more < flicient. Be ihout lit very li: tie pood could be (one by ahoiiihing any of tho existing bonier. Ti-ere was great diflicully iD getting competent men to administur ■lU&ir?, wbo were intercstel in special sal jscts, and who were willing to j:ive up their iim;- to de&l with those sutjfete only Tbis was the case with Eiverßoards Harbor Boards, Education Beard?, &c. There wes no leisure class here able to oive np tbe time to larpe bodies dealing with ell these subjects. Aa for Waste Lands Boards, he bad no great love lor them, and the Government had it in contemplation toaboiieh | ihem and to consult (Jouaty Councils on all questions affecting the lanJ within tbe counties. As fco the borough?, there Local Government was woiking silisfactorily, although tbey perhaps wanted more money. As to County Councils and Road Boarde, no two persons seemed agreed as to what should be done. In some places the < ounty did the work, in some the Road Boards, but in no case bad they been aeked to join two counties. Ii (he ratepayers wanted union of this kind they would effect ifc. One point on which all these bodies were agreed was their deiire to get more money ; there was still a feeling abroad that mi ney could be obtained in some other way then cut of tho pockets of the ratepayers. They must recognise the fact that there was no other way of getting money tban out of their own pockets. This was the view on which tbe Government scheme of local Qnance was founded ; it was founded, uot on partnership of Land Fund, but on the principle that all obtained from tbe land should be expended on. the land, lie thought that the scheme would supply all the wants of the local bodies, if the Opposition would not accept the Bcheme, they should in duty to tho country bring down some otber proposal to meet the necessities of tha country. He was prepared to fight for his own scheme, and the Government held that every facility should be given for tbe countries amalgamating, and for merging Road Boards. They proposed to take power to delegate to Councils all powers of administration under local or general Acts, which could be delegated safely ; also to give power to counties to levy the rates for Road Boarde, and where the Road Bosrd desired it, to spend the money ■or them on definite work. They proposed also to give County Councils the powers now exercised by the Government as Road Board boundaries, and until the Property Tax "Valuation Koll was available, to allow existing Valuation Eells to be used with annual amendments. Then as to the Road Boards, tbe Government proposed to introduce an Act for the simplification of Road Board machinery, especially in regard to election?, for wbich the Local Elections Act waß too cumbersome. This wculd be permissive. Extended powers for merging would also be given Boards. No portion of a county should be outside of Road Boards, and as far as possible road districts should be electoral districts oi the community. As. to Hospital and Charitable Aid Board?, he considered them absolutely necessary, and that the districts must necessarily be large, in order to provide euitable buildings and medical aid. Unless they were to have a poor law, administered by officials, tbey would require these Boards consisting of people doing tbe work for lovp, and administering local contributi- n-*. He believed these proposals would meet all the legitimate demands for Local Self-Government. Sir G. Grey considered the Government had arrived rt lame and impotent conclusions to satisfy the wants of 500,000 people. He contended that no real local government now existed in New Zealand The way votes in local districts were proportioned to property rendered real local government impossible, and for tbis the Government proposed no remedy. He denied that there was no other way of getting money than out of the people's pockets. There were other means which could easily be got at, and which the House, he was sure, would get at sooner or later. He had been taunted about not really meaning to introduce a Local Government Bill, but tbe only hint he had yet given on the subject bad been eagerly seized on by the Government, and that was as to the rating of native land, and tbe method of collecting the rates. The Government bad, he was glad to say, taken bis suggestion. His Bill was now in the bands of the printer, and he was not afraid to show I his hand. AH his cards were the property of the people of New Zealand, and it was for them to say how they were to be played There should be large local bodies constituted, taking in whole counties and boroughs, and then full powers should be given to the people in these districts to determine the form of tbeir own administration by local institutions so as best to meet their own requirements. All the present woes of the people arose Irom the abolition of Provincial Institutions, without any commensurate substitute being provided. The people should be given iull power to manage their own affairs, and determine the form of institutions best calculated to meet their own necessities ; a very short measure could provide a complete system of SelfGovernment, and simple powers for making bye-laws should be given, and the geographical formation of the Colony rendered such a system necessary and desirable. The local bodies Bhould have power to make bye-laws on almost all subj ects on which the provinces used

to legislate. While he would not give them power to legislate on external or internal defence, he thought the volunteer force might be placed under local control. Ho thought tho volunteer force -was likely to become the finest in the world. They should not bo allowed to pass bye-laws about telegraphs amd one or two other matters, but should bave power to make all regulations for raining purposes. He denied that the House could ever do justice lo Uio whole colony in redressing grievances. It could not sit long enough or bear the expense. Power to redress grievances promptly and on tho spot should be given to local bodies, aud to establish courts having large powers, but inferior to those of the Supreme Court ; power to appoint their own Judges should be given, and thus justice be brought to each man's door, aud they would no longer have the Bench occupied by Judges actuated by strong party feeling. By reducing the work of the central Government to one half, if tbe liouse could be reduced, and tho other Chamber found to be a redundant blessing with which tbey could dispense, there would be plenty of money available for local bodies. Tho surplus revenue, after provision for general purposes, should bo divided among local bodies in proportion to the population. Rates on Crown and Native Lands should be imposed by local districts, and be expended by them, the vote being the same as on all other property. Large landed endowments should be granted to local bodies and rendered inalienable. In time tbe results from these should free tbe people from all taxation and provide for their wants. Future generations would bless them if they did this, but the Government proposed a continuance of a system of legislation belonging to an expiring civilisation, instead of welcoming the new civilisation which was dawning on the earth. Mr McLean said he would like to see Sir G. Grey's Bill, and consider the matter more fully before going on with the debate. He accordingly moved its adjournment. This was after some discussion agreed to. The debate will be resumed at 7.30 on Tv esday evening next.