THE NO-CONFIDENCE DEBATE

Nelson Evening Mail, Volume XIV, Issue 186, 6 August 1879, Page 5

THE NO-CONFIDENCE DEBATE

MR. HURSTHOUSE'S SPEECH. The following is the Hansard report of the speech of the member for Motueka: — Sir, — It is not my intention to take up much of the time of the House — I am known generally as a, ten-minute wan ; but I think it is my duty to this House, to myself, to the country, and to the people I represent, to give them any reasons for voting for the amendment of the honorable the leader of the Opposition. I am not, Sir, going to descend to personalities of any sort, I am not going to charge the Hon. the Premier with anything of a personal character, nor am I going to charge the Minister for Public Works with misusing his personal influence in any direction ; but lam going in a few minutes, Sir, to give as clearly as I possibly can my reasons for the vote which lam about to record. Sir, since I have had the honor of a seat in this House I have watched with great distrust the manner in which Sir George Grey, the now Premier, has endeavored to raise between the two most important classes of this commuaity a feeling of antagonism one against the other. Sir, I have watched him, not only on the floor of this House, but on the platform of various halls in New Zealand, ■where he is always listened to with greater respect than his words deserve. I say he has said there, Sir, things which have made my heart burn, coming, as I do, from one of the working communities of this country — being, I believe, one of the few members of this House who earn their bread by the eweat of their brow. I say there is nothing which has ever affected my feelings so strongly as the manner in which the Premier has tried to set class against class to the detriment of the people. I say that the working-man knows that his interests run hand-in-liand with capital ; and that if labour and capital do not run together, he suffers accordingly. I have seen the fallacy of that argument, that the poor man's country is the only country to prosper. Take, as an example, one of the special settlements in this colony — the Karamea settlement, which has cost thousands and thousands of pounds, and which has been bolstered up with Government funds. That is a specimen of what New Zealand will become if the Premier and his Government continue in power, and capital is driven from the country. What is the use of labour in a country if there is no capital in it to give employment to the labouring man ? I speak feelingly ou this subject. It has been my fault or misfortune, from the time that I could wield a tomahawk, to earn my bread by the sweat of my brow, and it comes with an ill grace from Sir George Grey to endeavor to set my heart against the man who has kept me in food and clothes; but I thank the Almighty that there arises no such cry in the poor man's heart, and that we are too enlightened to be led away by the eloquence of the Premier. I admit that his eloquence is above that of any other man in this country. I admit that by his powers of oratory he can awaken the sympathies and feelings of the less educated people of this country, who, in their quiet moments, in their serious hours of thought, know that their bread rests to a certain extent with the capitalist; and I hope that, as long as it is my good fortune to live in this country, we shall never see that spirit of antagonism arise which he has tried to lincite in the workman's heart agairiat the capitalist. No man more deplores the state in which England is at this moment than I do; for, although England is a country unknown to me, I can deeply sympathize with the depressed condition of her operatives and agricultural labourers ; but I do not believe that such a etate of things can ever exist in this country. The same class of people do not exist here ; and we know as a matter of fact that every year the large estates in this country are being broken up and sold into small allotments. The honorable member for Auckland City East says " No." Why, Sir, I could quote a dozen that have been broken up since this House met last session. The estate lately owned by the Hon. Mr. Waterhouse in the Wairarapa is at present being cut up

into farms and sold ; but beyond all that, just let the working-man think under whose reign these large estates were obtained. The people in my part of the country look with suspicion upon the man who now rails so much against them, when they reflect npon the fact that the land which they hold was bought honorably and honestly under the regulations which are known as Sir George Grey's regulations. Sir George Grey, under these regulations, did the most grievous injury that ever was done to this colony. Giving him his due, I believe he did it with a good intention; but I have lived long enough in New Zealand to know that cheap land is detrimental to the poor mau, because as soon as you lower the price below its actual value, it opens the door to the creation of large estates; and we see that in the estate of Cheviot, where 100,000 acres were purchased at an average of eight shillings an acre. Then, Sir, this great advocate of the working man — though I do not know why he should take up arms for the working man of this country— has had opportunities of benefiting the poorer classes ; but let the working man look at the action of his Government last session. Thousands of men have been thrown out of employment through his action and the action of his Colonial Treasurer in remitting the import duty on timber. Scores of saw-mills, employing thousands of men, are actually stopped, while others are only working half-time, and soon will cease to work at all. In some districts the mill owners have clubbed together and reduced the price of labour. And yet this is the man who sets himself up as the working man's friend. There is an old saying about " Save us from our friends," and I hope we shall be saved from the tyrannical acts of this our friend. Another reasou why I have no confidence in this Government is simply this, lam not going to travel over the ground touched upon by other honorable members, but will refer to things which are not satisfactory to me : That Maori dual vote business was a hard crust to swallow. There is no doubt that the 70,000 people Sir George Grey spoke of as being deprived of their electoral privileges will thank him when they reflect that they are now deprived of those privileges because Sir George Grey's will was so strong that he would not yield to the better sense of his colleagues. He was the man who said when he was on this side of the House that in one short half-hour he could reduce the departmental expenditure £100,000. Has he done it ? He is the working-man's friend, who was going to alter the incidence of taxation so that every man in the country should pay a fair proportion of taxation according to his means. There never was a greater bungle than the land-tax. It has caused more injury and annoyance than the payment of he tax will ever remedy. And yet thia is the Government that was to do every thing right, it was so pure and righteous that it could do nothing wrong. Why, Sir, there never was a Government that came into office that had such great opportunities to do what was needed for the country. The country was at their back, and they had a House prepared to support them. If they had introduced a property and income-tax they would have been a most popular Government. I know that the whole population of New Zealand was anxious that the incidence of taxation should be so altered that every class should bear its fair proportion of taxation ; and yet the minds of the Government were so occupied with other things that they bungled the whole matter. Does anybody suppose that the remission on tea, sugar, and perambulators has beneficially affected the workingman ? So far as my knowledge goes it has had little or no effect. Another mj.tter that created a strong impression on my mind was that every Government, to be successful, ought to be unanimous ; or, at all events, if not unanimous amongst themselves, that they should put on an appearance of unanimity in the the House. Now, what did we see last session ? When the Judicial Commission Bill, introduced by the honorable member for Mount Ida, came before the House, we saw the honorable member for Dunedin City (Mr Stout) get up and pronounce a very impartial opinion upon the sub-

jeer, his argument being against the Bill. I was anxiously waiting for the guidance of the Government, being more or less a Government supporter then, because I wanted to know which lobby to go into ; but when the Premier got up he condemned the AttorneyGeneral and everybody who voted with him. He said that the rights of the people depended upon the passing of this Bill. Well, what were we to do ? Were we to take the opinion of the honorable member for Auckland City East, or were we to take the opinion of the Attorney-General and the late Attorney - General (Mr Whi taker) ? The balance of argument, to my mind, was with the Attorney-General, and I voted with him. The Premier the other day threw out a challenge with reference to the Barton case which nobody took up. For reasons known to many honorable members my tongue was tied on that occasion, and is tied now to some extent ; but a challenge was thrown out to the effect that there was no precedent of any man ever having been treated as the honorable member for Wellington City was treated by the Supreme Court. Well, I will give the lion, gentleinun a precedent. There is the case of a barrister named Skipworth, who, not for contempt of Court, but for addressing a public meeting and making charges against the Judges almost in the same words as those in which Mr Barton charged the Judges, was committed to gaol for three months, and fined £500. Mr Moss. — He was not a barrister ; he was an attorney. Mr Hursthouae. — There is mighty little difference between the two. That was not for coutempt comoutted in Court, but nt a public meeting* at BrightOD, where he was speaking. Now, there is a precedent in which a barrister rfceived a much more severe punishment for a much less important crime, and other cases can be cited if necessary. I was saying that the Ministry should he unanimous. Let me give another case where they were not — the Broomhall case. Here was a case in which a contract wan entered into by the Government, and which the colony was bound to ratify, The Attorney-General spoke io favor of the ratification, but the Premier immediately contradicted him, and said that all bis facta were fictions, aad added that the whole country would be ruined if ibis just claim were satisfied. There the Ministry quarrelled, not in Cabinet — for that would be nothing to me — but in the House ; and no Ministry that quarrels in the House will over have my conGdence, even if it were composed of my most intimate personal frieadu. Then there are other reasons why wo ehoulJ have no confidence iv the Ministry. The action of the Premier last year in connection with the Land Bill was sufficient to condemn any Ministry. Sir, I say that he crept behind the will of the people, he upset the constitutional rights of every mao in this colony, be virtually took upon himself the duties of King of New Zealand, when he attempted to withhold that Bill from the Governor. If we are going to allow such things to be done, we may as well elect Sir George Grey King of New Zealand at once. What is the use of our passing Bills by a majority of this House if they can ba treated in that way afterwards ? Whether the Bill was good, bad, or indifferent, he was bound by bia duty to the Government and the country to send it to the Governor. If any other man in New Zealand had done what Sir George Grey did with that Bill, he would have been howled out of the country ; but there is a sac ed halo around the Premier which no man feels inclined to break. Then there is another reason why I have do confidence in the Government, and especially in the Minister for Public Works. I am not {join;: to alluJe to our railway difficulties in Neleon. The honorable member for Nelson City (Mr Adams) has exhausted that subject. I do not ban e (hem particularl/ ou (hat matter, although I think the works might hava been carried on more expediliously. I believe there is not a railway which was authorised last year which has not been commenced, and 1 am perfectly satisfied that if the Nelson — Foxhill Railway had beea the great Otago Central line, it would have been finished by this time. But there is

another reason why I shall never have any coofMeneo in the Minister for Public Worke, and that is this : Two years ago I hear] him say (hat two hundred thousuu.l pounds wns of more importance to Ota^o than the uuity of the colony. Well, Sir, from that moment he went down in my mind as a statesman below zero, and he hag never risen yet. That whs sufficient to stamp him iv my fjcs. I believo Otago is New Z aland (o Mm. His eoul is not large enough to get ever' the Waitaki. Its recent additions have not strengthened the Ministry in my opinion. I see silting before me a gentleman for whom I have always held the highest respect until quite lately. Last session that honorable gentleman was prepared to speak and to vote against the men who are now his colle-igues. He made the strongest speech that could have been made against tho land-tax, their only measure. AoJ yet rhia "honest man of Ota^o" haa taken his place in a Ministry which I sincerely hope will not loDg refrain in office. I consider political honesty is the fundamental principle upon which a statesman's character should bo based. When Isee anything but politcial honesty in a man be must tall in my fstimatioo. Now, I should like to say a few words upon that important questiou, the Native difficulty. I, like the honorable member for Franklin (Mr Hobbs), am a New Zealand-horn man. I waa born and lived amongst the Natives for many years. I have had considerable private dealiogs with them, and know something more or less about their habits. The Native difficulty has, to my mind, assumed a new phase, and it is beyond me to understand what h going to be the end of the present state of affairs on the West Coast of this lelan.l. I know personally the man whose influence is now at work on that coast, and know a great many of the people upon whom this influence is exercised, and I must say I have been astonished at the passive manner in which these men have allowed themselves (o be arrested. But the ploughing and these later proceedings are verj small matters to my mind as compared with the sheltering of Hiroki, the alleged murderer, by To Whiti, the fanatic. The delivering-up of this man will be the sticking point between the two parties; and here I say after full consideration, and having a more or less intimate knowledge of the character of the Natives and tbe circumstances of the settlers, that that man Hiroki ought to be arrested, even at the point of tbe bayonet if necessary. lam aware many honorable members will not agree with me ; but it is my opinion that the present state of things cannot be allowed to exist any longer. We have on that coast many hundreds of settlers, good men and true, and we are bound to protect them and their rights. Sir, no man in his senses will enter into business or follow agriculture on that coast while the present state of affairs exists, I have been very much disappointed at the Native Minister, in that he has not declared his intentions with regard to Te Whiti and his followers ; but I was surprised and grieved when I read the. telegram sent by the Premier of this colony to the settlers at Hawera. Let us glance at the serious position of these people. They had a band of hostile Natives just across a stream no wider than this room; within a few miles of them was Titokowaru, the great fighting chief, with some hundreds of followers ; and a party of men had been sent by Te Whiti to absolutely commence operations of a hostile character. The settlers were excited and under every temptation to take the law into their own hands ; but with , great self-restraint they forwarded a J telegram to the head of the Govern-' ment asking for instructions. Fancy a Premier telegraphing in reply to a people so situated, " Things done under excitement are not done well;" and then he goes on to say he knows there are men of courage among the settlers, and such rubbish as that, without ever offering any assistance or doing anything to reassure them. Was ever such a mockery of a telegram sent to men ready to die for the protection of their' homes and families ? Wo all knew they were brave men; they knew it themselves too j they did not require to be told that ; but such was the way in which he telegraphed, and such was the manner t in which he wriggled out of

a responsibility he was justly entitled to take. Aud when the settlers determined to take the law into their own hands, what do we find was done ? Why, when they had inarched oft' to the spot to expel these people, an agent of the Premier telegraphed that they had departed to do it, and the Premier immediately telegraphs back a special message to say the Government recommend that the settlers ought to take action and cart these people off. That is just Sir George Grey getting out of the back-door when he does not find it convenient to go out of the front one. For these reasons and for others I have not mentioned, I shall consider it my duty to my country, to my constituents, and to myself, to vote against the Government, and in favor of the amendment of the honorable member for Wanganui.